Ok, I've got a '92 3.1L Camaro, the engine is mostly bone stock. (as far as I can remember)

The car ran beautifully, just last summer I took the engine apart down to the valve covers and freshened up the intake (carb cleaner, fuel injectors were sent out for flow testing and cleaning).

The car ran fine, and I drove it about 30 miles to my house from my buddies where I had done all the work. I replaced all the vaccuum hoses, antifreeze, changed the oil, pvc, etc. I did NOT change the fuel filter because the line was pretty corroded and I didn't wanna break it, so I put it off.

I parked the car for the winter, and was starting it frequently. One morning though it didn't start and I didn't want to try to jump it because it was freezing *** cold here. A few weeks later it's warmed up now. I knew the battery would be dead, so I took it back where I got it for battery testing. They put it on their charger and said it was ok.

I'm smart enough to know that charging a battery in 40 min's isn't good. The car wouldn't start, and my dad said he thought I had bad gas. I threw some octane booster in there out of desparation (I have a full tank of gas!). The car tried to turn over, but still not results this time. I pulled the battery and threw it on a trickle charger and sure enough it was dead again. I let it charge and then threw it in the car this morning. I still can't get it to start.

Any ideas?

It should be noted that I had a problem at one point in the fall where the oil cap popped out on its own and there was some dirt in the oil. I ran the car since then and thought it would have burned out. I was gonna change the oil now, but I was hoping to get it in the garage where it's warm, but it won't start!

Does it sound like bad gas? I don't know how long it's been since that gas has been in there. If it IS bad gas, I can leak it out by cutting out the fuel pump I think, but then comes the problem of figuring out what to do with the gas I syphon out.

What if I drain part of it out and then put some dry gas in?

Anyways, the next thing I'm gonna try is some starting fluid, but I'd appreciate someone a bit more knowledgable on this....

Mathius

 

one thing, if the gas is bad, octane booster helps none.

It has either "varnished up", or has water/ice in the line. Get some fuel adative that eleminates this. Next time you go to park it for any decent time, add this stuff in, go drive around for a little while, then park it.

Check your distrib cap, letting them set will rot/rust them up.

 

My gas wasnt the greatest after sitting for a month in the cold. After i added some dry gas i saw an improvment. It seemed like gas was sitting on top of water in the tank and the fuel pump was sucking up more water than gas. <~if that makes sence.
Also all the cold weather killed my battery also, id get like 1 crank then it would be dead.

 

Start with a fresh battery for your situation.
For you guys back there it has been a cold winter.
Someone did also suggest something warm under the oil pan for helping, too.
EFI vehicles need great electrical power output & solid electrical system for starting the vehicle.

 

I tried spraying the cap'n rotor with WD40 in case there was moisture in there. One weird thing I noticed was twice I checked my gas tank and the cap was loose. It always sealed well before, could this be an indication of some sort of weird pressure buildup? I dunno.

How bad could a clogged fuel filter be? I don't know when it was last changed. I thought my dad had changed it a year ago, but when I went to change it about 6 monthes later, the lines were so rusted I didn't wanna try, so maybe he didn't..

Dale: Are you saying I should add fuel stabilizer now? Would that help? I do have some....

My uncle works at a pontiac dealership, and he suggested turning the motor over with the spark plugs out to clear out the oil.

Mathius

 

why is there oil in the cyl to begin with? And yes add the fuel stabilizer imo.

 

Put in dry gas before you do the stabilizer. The dry gas will help to get rid of the water in the bottom of the tank (gas is less dense than water so it will float and the fuel sump picks up what is on the bottom first) and the stabilizer will help keep the gas together afterwards (keep it liquid and from jellifying). Also change the filter after getting a can of PB Blaster and spraying the crap out of those fittings back there.

CHANGE THE OIL AND FILTER for cryin' out loud! There shouldn't be any oil in the cylinders unless you need new rings or valve seals and pulling the plugs won't do anything with the oil in the pan! Let the engine become dead cold (or just pull the plug since it hasn't been run in a while) and drain the oil. That should get the junk out of the pan if you jack up the front of the car enough to allow the oil to flow towards the back of the pan while it is draining, and let the engine sit for a while with the plug out to get what you can out. Put in some cheap oil and a filter and drive the car for 100 miles before changing the oil and filter again to the usual good stuff, so you can flush the system out (or just add a bottle of Oil Flush).

Also, go to Advance Auto and buy the $25 auto battery trickle charger/maintainer by Schumacher. It will keep the battery charged all winter without having to start the engine. The only downside to it is you have to unplug it to start the engine.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by br()bert
[B]My gas wasnt the greatest after sitting for a month in the cold. After i added some dry gas i saw an improvment. It seemed like gas was sitting on top of water in the tank and the fuel pump was sucking up more water than gas. <~~~~ wish i said that.....

 

What I meant was clean the crap out of the oil, not clean the oil out of the chambers Sorry for the misword.

He doesn't agree with my dad. He feels it just got flooded and it isn't bad gas. He said doing that would clear excess gas out of the oil and blow out the fuel from the combustion chambers?

I'm still learning a lot about engines and fixing them, so I may have got some of what he said wrong, but basically it was meant to clear the crap out.

Mathius

 

I don't think there's any problems with the rings or valve seals, it ran great before parking it. I just changed the oil and filter before parking it. I'm gonna change it again, but I was hoping to at least get the car running enough to pull it in the garage first. I don't want to lay in a pile of snow to change the oil filter

Mathius

 

Ok, here's an update. Still no dice

We tried putting a bit of dry gas in. It said it worked up to a 10 gallon tank. I had 2 of these, but just put in one. Then we added STP's concentrated Fuel Cleaner, which I guess has dry gas in it as well, and some cleaning agents. I pushed the car up and down to hopefully swirl it in the gas tank a bit.

Still didn't start. I sprayed down the wires and rotor good with cleaner for that and it didn't help either. We also tried spraying starting fluid into the throttle body. No dice on that either.

Dad tested for a spark with one of those spark testor's, and it's getting a spark, it just won't start.

We pushed it into the garage so I can work on it out of the weather. First thing he told me to try is pulling the spark plugs in case I flooded it trying to start it all this time. He told me to clean it out, and try cranking it over to clean any gas out of the chambers.

Anyone have any other ideas? I suppose just sitting in the garage may let it start if anything froze up on it, but you'd think starting fluid would take care of it.

What's the quickest way to pull the spark plugs on our cars? I don't want to remove all the bracketry and find out there's an easier way.

Mathius

 

dont have to pull any brackets to pull the plugs. All are easy except the pass front one. Use a socket, swivel, and 6" extension.

Just cause its getting spark doesnt mean its good enough. Has to be hyper white, no blue, red, orange.

 

Really really true.
The spark must be lightening bolt WHITE! to ignite these engine. NO hint of any shade of color.
Go get new coil & just "test wire" it into ignition system.
IF it starts, you solved problem.
Serious, with the ignition system working correctly, you car fire this engine up thru any spark plug crud.
That's the easy way to clean the plugs, start the engine!
I've been there, too.
Rebuilt everything (which wasn't so bad in long run, but....) I used a new coil to start the car in end.
Best thoughts & So Cal warmth to ya!

 

Is it just me or is there a hell of alot of six's having problems lately?

 

Today I went for drive in my old Corvette
I just fixed turn signal switch to cure fuses shorting out short time ago.
One week later after the fix (today), I go back to start car. A dead battery & a tire with little or no air. 3 others ain't far behind that lowest pressure tire, also.
Ain't just V6's having trouble these days!

 

I don't think the 60* V6 likes cold very much...

Anyways, if the spark you get when you remove the plugs is lighting-bolt white and there is no other explanation, you may want to get an injector cleaning KIT (yes, KIT) from NAPA. It is around $20 and does a better job than those in tank things do, since the engine uses the cleaning fluid to run instead of gas.

 

I dont think they do either, mine runs good now and even with new plugs,wires,cap,rotor and a newer coil it cranks for like 2 seconds on really cold mornings. When its warm it starts VERY fast.

 

Sounds like you have the problem attended to very well.
That starting scenerio sounds about right.
Your neighbors up north have a way to help the slow starting.
Engine Block Heaters are very common on Upper North American & Canadian rides.

 

Is there any way you can give us a part number and where to buy those things, or know someone who can get them for us? Or do the "universal fit" things work best? I was looking around in that area online last night and couldn't find beans. I was hoping for maybe a core heater and a dipstick heater. Those work very well from what I have read.

 

I know of no numbers or parts or brands.
When I visited Ithica back in 70's I saw cars with plugs in front of car & was told that's what they were, connections to engine block heaters. I saw same idea in Canada the plugs in front of cars.
I'd say either the block or the oil dipstick idea would assist.
I don't doubt a GM dealer would have some special regional cold weather parts.
I just spoke to my Sister in upper CT. & was told of 20* BELOW ZERO moments.
Electric Blankets under the hood a helpful idea?
Electric stoves under the oil pan an idea?
Or small BBQ under car?
What do you guys do for the tranny? Do the trannys "slip or act funny" in the extreme cold?

 

Don't know about the 700R4 in the 'bird, but the tranny in my dad's Cavvy has been slipping like mad the last month when it is cold outside. And it has been even colder here next to the great lakes at times.

I saw the official snow count on the Rochester news today: 61.5 inches of snow for last month and a grand total of 98.1 inches for all season. Wow!

 

61.5 inches of snow for last month and a grand total of 98.1 inches for all season.
SO FAR!
I won't say what the temps are in L.A. lately.
I remember seeing snow piles as tall as garbage trucks when I lived back there.

 

You just HAD to remind me that there are still TWO months of winter left, didn't you? And the snow piles are even bigger now! At either end of my street, you can't even see oncoming traffic due to the extreme height of the snow piles on the corners! That should be illegal!

 

Have you heard the price tags associated with annual snow removal budgets lately?
Blame the Groundhog for more winter for ya!
I recall thinking if I went to Ithaca for schooling I was gonna have to break out skiing gear for going to classes!

 

boy do I know THAT feeling... I could care less how much it costs, just as long as drivers are SAFE and the end of my street is NOT safe! We almost got hit going out to dinner today!

Forgot to add that there is another 1/4" of snow since I last came inside...

 

Quick update, but not much to note. I threw the battery back on the charger, it was only down a little. After sitting in the garage for 2 days, the car warmed up quite a bit, but still wouldn't start.

I pulled the plugs and checked'm out. They were pretty fouled, and smelled like gas. I turned it over a few times to try to clear out some of the gas in the chambers.

I took a wire brush to the spark plugs, and then sprayed'm with brake cleaner and lastly, took the air hose to them to dry'm out good, then stuck'm back in, but I had to run to work before I could get the last one in (the bitch one near the alternator). Dad was working on that while I was at work. Maybe tommorrow I'll get a chance to try starting it, but I gotta help someone move, so might not be 'til Thursday.

If it's still a no go, what do you guys suggest? I hate to replace the coil and find out that wasn't the problem. Should I start syphoning the gas out and put new gas in it and try that?

Mathius

 

Is the fuse for the ECM dead for some weird reason? If it is, you won't get anything from the ECM at all (no injector pulse, fuel pump prime, etc) and you will end up with a no start condition. It is by the air cleaner mounted on the fender wall in a weatherpeack connector.

Siphoning the gas will take forever unless you have a pump that happens to be driven by a drill. I know.. it takes hours to get even two gallons! It might work, but you will waste LOADS of time if it doesn't.

 

I think I'd probably just disconnect it at the fuel filter and let it drain out that way. It should create a syphon on its own.

Mathius

 

gm block warmer, 1991 3.1 part 52350510


if your plugs have fuel on them, the injectors could be stuck/grounded open. Have you checked fuel pressure, and left guage on to see how fast it bleeds down?

 

Coils go for about $30.
Hook it in "loose" on the engine.
See if starts.
If not, just return it and keep going.
No need to "wire in permament" the coil, for quick test like this.

 

Well, looks like it was either bad fuel, or just a low battery originally. After I pulled the plugs which were clearly flooded and cleaned them up, it fired on the second try this morning.

So whether or not I flooded it because the battery was dead, or if the fuel additives helped as well, I don't know, but it's running now. I'm thinking the fuel additives helped though, 'cuz its got some pretty awful smelling exhaust going right now from sitting.

Anyways, it's up and running now and I drove it around all day. Everytime I park it for a while, I forget how much fun it is to drive these cars. You guys can call me sheltered, but I can hardly imagine what it would be like to have an LS1 sitting under the hood or better. Even my '76 Chevelle with it's 305 doesn't move like this little 3.1 (of course it's bone stock and rated at 140hp also, but it has more torque at 220)


Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys. Plans are to drive her again tommorrow and then Sat. she goes in the garage for an oil change and fuel filter change and I'll probably put in the new 180 degree thermostat as well to help with the problem I had in the summer with the fan not kicking on until 220. I'm also gonna throw my Firebird spoiler on her and then start driving her around for paint quotes and get her back on the road.

Mathius

 

Ummm... The thermostat has no say over when the engine fan turns on... That is regulated by a switch mounted in the rear corner of the pass side cylinder head, next to the lifting eye.

 

220* is exactly when the fan should turn on.
Fan turns off when it hits 210*.
Putting in a lower thermostat won't do much differnce.
Sounds like ya beat back the Gremlin!
For the Chevelle,
Go find a beat Truck/Motorhome/Van with a 454
Add Hedman Headers (they fit better with this sized engine).
Buy a beefed up tranny kit & a posi set up for your current axle.
Have fun!

 

KED: Just picked up the Chevelle a month ago. Less than 25k original miles. Had a hole in the floorpan, and rusted lines and a leaking gas tank. I got most of that fixed though and she runs well for 30 yrs old. I have an '89 Ranger I'm putting a 302 in and a 5 speed, then it's time for the Malibu.

Mathius

 

Won't the 180 thermostat make the engine run cooler, thereby not needing the fan as much? 230 is redline territory in my car if I remember correctly and the fan doesn't come on 'til 220. That's too close for me.

Someone said get a new fan switch to me before, but mine seems to be working the way it is meant (coming on at 210-220). I already checked and my local part stores don't seem to have it, either unless they're not looking in the right spots.

Ede mentioned something about splicing in a hypertech fan switch. Anyone have another suggestion?

Mathius

 

My fans didnt turn on at all, it turned out to be a combination of bad wires and sensor. I bought a hayden adjustable fan switch and a 35 amp relay. Wired it all in and installed a 180 thermo.

And Adjusted the switch to turn the fan(s) on at around 180.
Works much better than the stock system does. Fans will not turn on untill the set temp is reached and when you turn the car off the fans will also turn off.
The relay is wired much like an amp in the way that it has a turn on wire and unless this turn on wire is getting power the relay will not open ei a key on power source, The key on source can be anything since its only a turn on sorce, the relay gets its main power directly from the battery.

The switch gets its power from the relay and also will not send power to the fan(s) unless the temp(that you set) is reached.

All protected by a inline fuse, its a very good system and was only around $30.:hail:

 

GREAT BYPASS & SET UP ENGINEERING.
You have factory gauge or add on guage?

 

The fan on the '90 - '92 3.1's is controlled by the ECM. So can either change the thresholds in the PROM or add in a secondary switch. The only down side to the secondary switch is that the ECM won't know the fan is coming on in order to bump the idle up first. Whether this will cause it to stall or not I don't know.

A trick way would be to open the A/C high pressure switch wire. This tells the ECM that the A/C has built pressure and to turn on the fan. Still ECM controlled so it handles an idle bump. And since it is low power no heavy duty relay required.

RBob.

 

I had to add a gauge since my car only came with the lites. Now i need a new one since i wasnt too careful when i did the head hasket and kinked the wire from the gauge too much, the gauge stays at 150 forever.

I have no stalling problems when my fan kicks on. I also upgraded my alt,batt,and ground wires to 4 ga. Maybe this helps a little.