I've heard the manifolds suck big time. How much hp would we get from the headers?

 

every car is different, gains will be different. Some may get only 5hp, and loose torque, while others may get 15hp, and 10-20tq.

 

I bet the gains will be noticable by SOP (seat of your pants test, meaning, you'll be able to feel an improvement).

All ya really gotta do is look at the stock manifolds and then compare them to the headers; that goes for any engine, too.

 

would it be better to get a v8?

 

depends on what your plans are for the car.

 

what do you mean?

 

Drag Race, autocross, daily driver, mod the living hell out of it?

How much money do you have to spend?
What kind of knowledge do you have?
do you already have the car?


I ask the same question when someone ask "I have 500 to spend on my car, what should I do?"

 

Daily driver / autocross
I'd say about a grand for now
Yes I have the car

 

I'd keep it, but I'm biased....

 

DAMN DECENT DRIVER!
Your car will appreciate in value quiet well.
Go grab the headers, eventually grab a 3.4 block and enjoy having some fun while passing the gas pumps.
Ya wanna V8, then go buy it.
This Street Legal Exhaust system from Pace Setter Exhaust will not make your engine perform like a V8 no matter how hard ya "try".
Age of current drive train and current engine size (2.8/3.1/3.4) will equal real results of your impressions of the addition of the Pace Setter Exhaust System headers & the mandatory "Y" pipe.
You can contact Mr. Fred Gerle at Pace Setter Exhaust for some suggestions how to enhance your exhaust system once these Pace Setter pipes are utilized under your hood.
Use fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com to contact him.
Under my Firebird hood is a 60-70,000 3.4 in primo shape. I expect to gain maximum results from the Street Legal Exhasut System from Pace Setter Exhaust. I know the factory exhaust system chokes my drivetrain like nothing else.

 

The exhaust SUCKS on the 3.4L, opening up the exhaust is supposed to do wonders for waking up this motor (FirebirdV6.com), there's NA 3.4's running really decent numbers (without a cam too).

 

Since you already have it, and plan to autocross, I would keep what you have.

The v6 has better weight distrubution for the autocross, enough power to move it w/o spinning the tires. More forgiving when you hammer the gas.

Get the headers when they come out.
get stiffer springs
34mm hollow front sway, and 24mm rear sway. slap them on with polly bushings and endlinks.

GOOD TIRES!!!

Your and me are attempting to do the same thing, just with different cars.

 

Why not buy the PF&E headers that are already available? They are 49 state legal and you can have them in your hands while the others are waiting for their Pacesetters. The number at PF&E is 586-949-3400 they should be able to have you a set within 4-6 weeks.

 

let me guess... they aren't legal in cali?

 

I have yet to see dyno tables for either set of hedders (things that look pretty are just that...)

 

Nope thats why theres such a big deal about the pacesetters coming out but for everyone else there is a better product out there.

 

There is enough product out there for any manufacturer to have a piece of the pie.
Why people are complaining or judging this and that
go spend your money where you feel it's wisely spent.
I COULD HAVE MADE MY OWN HEADERS for my car, if I felt like it.
I could not "make" a CARB tag for my bi-annual smog test.
Pace Setter Exhaust will be placing that CARB tag on a set of pipes for my ride and that's fine by me.
Quite complaining about who makes headers or a better product. People who now need street legal headers, they have an option and a place where they can be purchased.
Pace Setter Exhaust.
And I seriously doubt the Pace Setter Product is any less inferior as you are trying to imply.
If ya have any complants about their product, send an email to this gentleman Mr. Fred Gerle at PaceSetter Exhaust (fgerle@pacesetterexhaust.com). I'm sure he can answer your comments much more effectivly than I or others.
And again, I'm not implying that PFE & the CR5 Pipes are a little business in a back room.
I know.
I've raced Corvettes incuding my own and been around a few, including Gran Sport #2 of the 5 built in 1962/63.
YET NOTHING BEATS the pipes off a H-16 Grand Prix engine of BRM from the 60's nor the "Snake" Pipes of the Ford 427 powered GT-40's!
Com'n Celebrate that someone else is making sick demented gear head parts for our dead engines & dead cars!

 

KED85, IROC57TPI, please, stop bickering over the Pacesetter vs PF&E issue. We all know what's available. There's stickies at the top of the forum about both. Unless you start pointing out key technical reasons (primary tube ID, primary length, pipe gauge, collector size, collector length, materials, flange thickness, etc) other than the obvious CARB E.O. which should be accompanying the Pacesetter product, I don't want to see any more header envy. Kay? Coo.

 

I never was saying anything of the sort.
I applaude anyone making a product for our dead cars.
I can't fathom why someone would dump on anyone manufacturer doing something for us, making pipes, street legal or not.
My only vested interest in the Pace Setter Street Legal Headers for our V6 60* 3rd Gen F Body Product is that I may soon go to a CA Smog Check with the Pace Setter product under my hood and get a passing grade. It's a very selfish reason pure and simple. I'm not making a dime off the Pace Setter Product. My engine is choking at the top end, as I use the power of my engine. I know headers help this situation. I helped get a manfacturer to listen to an untapped market. Thank you Pace Setter Exhaust. I wrote a letter to Vic Edelbrock about listening to the same idea, Ya got these headers, make them street legal for us, too. Bastard Edelbrock NEVER even wrote back.

 

Redraif and I dynoed her car before and after with her 3.4 with the PF & E headers, and I have to say we were disappointed with the results...the car "felt/sounded" faster, but according the the dyno (yes, the same dyno) the benefit was near nil. Nowhere near the 15 hp figure quoted by some. Granted, this car needs a custom chip, but still, I would have expected some gain. I'm hoping that dialing in the tune will show more power.

 

Guess that means we can all claim false advertising since headers are concidered a bolt on performance part not bolt on then tune with a chip. Actually I had a similiar experiance with my truck from the stock exh manifolds which flow quite well to headmen 1,3/4 full lenght headers. I only droped .1 seconds off my 50ft times. Of course I had a free flowing setup before the headers so that might account for minimal gains and from what I remember RRaif had a good setup before the headers also that might account for small gains with her car as well.

As far as the battle of which header is better it doesent matter, its actually better that more people are making them. The more choices there are the more competitive the manufactors have to be. Thats means better deals will be made to sell the products.

 

I haven't made a big deal out of the lack of results from the header install since her car is way out from the norm, even as far as the engine goes...3.4, .471/.480 cam with around 221 duration, mildly ported heads...and yes, before the stock manifolds we were using were ported also (not sure what, if any, gain was seen from that since we did several things at once). On a stock 2.8, there may be more of a gain.
One interesting thing we did learn from the whole experience is how restrictive her exhaust is from the cat-back...its 2 1/4 compression bent, muffler shop crap, with a Flowmaster muffler. With the cutout open, she picked up about 12hp at the wheels! Torque was improved also. Again, the crappy exhaust system may have lessened the effect of the headers. We're going to make our own system from stainless mandrel bends soon.

 

What's her car running right now?

 

On the car's only trip to the track since the 3.4/headers, the transmission was refusing to upshift into third at WOT...it still managed mid 16s, but I feel like there is a lot more in it. Traction is now an issue also, which never was before with the dog-slow 2.8. Once we get everything dialed in, I feel that mid 15s will be no problem. Then we'll play with the juice some...