We have so many people down on the 60* around here. Why they even hang out here is beyond me but they enjoy being a pest. I think the problem lies in the stock temps of these cars.
I remember several post about temps and people seam to run 200+ all the time. I know red line is not till 240 but still.

I think we need to do some compassion test. I have no idea why but it seams like if I could let any and all of them drive my car once they would change their mind.

Course I ain't gonna do that. But Id like to see if I can get some of the cars set up similar to mine to get the same results.

I think the whole key is temp. I run 150-160 without a fan.
true cold air/ ram air, aluminum air dam [no flex] no AC radiator.

My car get very unresponsive when ever my ram air has leaked n it sucked in that hot under hood air.

I know they says its wrong to run below op temp but it runs like a rape ape down that low and will rev like the dickens. That combined with the good stock rear gear n the T5 stick is a blast.

I had a stock V8 camaro once and it was no where near as fun.

Turbo and NOS guys should find it even better if they can duplicate the same temps.

I find my car a blast n I'm betting if you can get in the same lower temp range you would find driving a 60* fun again.

 

After these last couple posts, I think somebody needs a hug.

 

After reading the title of this post and living in the south, I thought a 60 degree "Revival" would involve a tent and the promise of salvation for one's weary V6.

BROTHER GUMBY!! BRING US THE GOSPEL! Release us from the evil temptation of the the V8!!:hail: :hail:

Eric

 

Seems funny that GUmball gets all ofended when someone says anything negative about the crappy 2.8 but just recently i found an old thread where he was up at night all happy because a "friend" was gonna give him a 305 to put in his car in place of his 2.8!!!

Gumby my car runs at 160 to 180 all the time! I have no ******* homemade scoop on my hood or 6 feet of dryer vent going to my tb either. Its called i did it the correct way. With a diff thermo and aftermarket fan switch. No ac CONDENSOR either...
The temp that a 2.8 runs is not the reason people are down on them, look at all the problems with the 2.8,crappy oil pressure, constant break downs. Do a search and you'll see alot of problems involving the 2.8.

PLUS you have to look at mod vs price vs the power you get back.

A 2.8 will NEVER match a v8 in any of those catagories. Like it or not. Make a camp fire, sing a song, have a group v6er's hug, its still the truth and always will be!

 

Um... TURBO?

 

uhm.. NO! Turbo kits for v8s are aval, v6's? no. unless you go carb and get a fegeo or however its spelled, or make one homemade. Strap a homemade turbo on a v6 then put one on a v8. The v6 is still beat and consider the power vs money with the two motors.

Mod a v6 the same as you mod a v8 the v6 is always beat. like it or not.

 

Hey br()bert. Hate to say this, but I haven't read anything constructive about V6's from you ever since you got that V8 you're going to swap in. I got no problems if you want to give some good advice, and I'm not referring to "go get a V8", but otherwise, how bout you start looking around the V8 boards instead and leave us sixers to enjoy our cars. I have an 8 that I'm building, and I'm going to enjoy it. But there's no chance I'm going to swap it in for my 6; I'll be dropping it in something else. And my next thirdgen is going to be a 6 because that's what I enjoy modding. We've heard that mod for mod and dollar for dollar the 8 is going to give more power...we don't care. Go look at the V8 boards.

 

As a 2.8 V6 owner myself I wouldn't spend a single red cent trying to "beef up" that 2.8 v6.

I purchased that car for my wife and up until a month or so ago I've been under the hood more than I've been in it. If I open up the hood and look at the motor the wrong way and the SES comes on for no good reason. And on top of that the "amature" who worked on that car before I bought it created more problems that he cured.

As a daily driver I see no problem with this car. It's a decent looking vehicle but trying to make that puny motor into something that it's not, is an exercise in futility. My v6 Ponticac Sunbird could
out run my Camaro on it's worst day without even straining itself.
I don't see how the engineers at GM could put a motor that size in a car that should have came stock with a V8 even if it isn't an IROC or Z-28.

That motor [V6] has to work too much to pull that kind of weight in normal driving conditions let alone in any racing enviroment.
The V8's aren't really impressive either. What some people on this board have to do and spend to squeeze out every singe fraction of horsepower is mind boggling to say the least compared to what came stock out of the factory when I was younger back in the early seventies.
Don't get me wrong, I like this car and I'm not trying to diminish anyone's elses concept of they think is an acceptable for hot rodding, but there are too many limitations with what one can do
with those motors without bankrupting themselves for a couple of extra horsepower.

 

Most people underestimate these motors. No they aren't power houses, but they can lead to decent if not surprising levels of performance. Agood2.8's 2.8 runs 15's, the motor is not "built" either. He does have an incredibly light drivetrain, but his motor is stock. If I wanted to dominate the dragstrip, I wouldn't do it with anything that was available in a thirdgen. It's cheaper for ME to build a nice rat motor and put it in a 1st gen. That's not the point though. I can't see how an owner of one of these cars can dislike that powerplant (aside from its lack of power in stock form). When somthing DOES break, it's easy to fix, no tight spots. Power to weight ratio is a limiting factor that hurts these cars, if the cars were 300 lbs lighter, theyed run quite a bit different. I must go watch Initial D now, where, an underpowered car dominates by the way...

 

Go look at the V8 boards. [/B][/QUOTE]

Their isnt one

 

BTW as i have said before i have hated the 2.8 for a long time now, me getting a 350 has nothing to do with it.

Would i buy my car all over again knowing what i know now about the 2.8? Sure, and id put a v8 in it also.

The v6's that came in these cars shoulda never have been put into them, its plain and simple.

I mean comon people , your modding a motor to keep up with a mini van. Its sad!

Now the 3.4 swap makes alot of sence for someone looking for a little more power for cheap. But please dont keep up with this mod a 2.8 to make power crap its pathetic.

 

You can have a turbo 60* V6 a company called FFF makes them.
http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
There is a sticky on the forced induction forum for people trying to get in touch with them for a turbo kit.
There are several people over there with there kit.
The owner of the company has a turbo 3.4 camaro that makes like 360hp and 396ft.lb. and I think that was non inter cooled boost if I rember right.

 

brobert, lets discuss it a little more in detail. It's completely pathetic for a person to try to make power from a 2.8L v6 because ? (the engine is a boat anchor? There's no aftermarket? It simply isn't a performance platform?) take your pick. Truth of the matter, yet stated a tad more "constructively". Let's take number 1, the engines a boat anchor, and stock for stock will never make any power, ok....well, we can say that the engine has restrictions, yet so does every other engine, the difference is modern engines are now more effecient, more preciecly engineered, which allows them to work much less while creating incredible amounts of power vs older counter parts, engines such as the 350Z (287hp) 3.2 Honda (270hp) you can say they're high reving if you want, but that's a good amount of power given the displacement. If you make a comparison, a 215hp 305, or a 245 hp 350 will create .705 and .70 hp per cubic inch respectively, the six cylinder chevrolet will net .78 hp per cubic inch, actually higher than either engine, so while this engine is the least powerful, it's acutally the most effecient as power per cube is concerned....Ok, lets move on.

The engines have no aftermarket, well, that's no entirely untrue, nor entirely true. There is an aftermarket for the 2.8, just nto much of one, and the aftermarket that is available will normally not create "massive" power from the engine, short of nitrous oxide, which on a hundred shot would only have us running shortly behind the 350 (unelss we considered weight differences) Now, the reason an aftermarket exists for an engine is a couple of different reasons, the engines were "not huge producers of power from the factory" and.... the engines have a loyal following...had GM's mean lil Small Block been the tue dominator engine, it wouldn't need an aftermarket as the engine would have been pushed to the far limits of it's production ability and modification would only open the window for self destruction. The six cylinder is quite the same, the engines weren't produced to create the type of power that can be achieved in them, the difference is, there are many more performance parts available for a 350 chevy than you'll ever find for a lil sixer. and this creates quite a problem when trying to produce big v8 power from a lil v6 car.

Now, i don't know who on this board will try to argue that this engine was GM's performance platform, cause if you are, then you're bubble should have been burst a long time ago. Truth of the matter is that this isn't a performance setup, and really isn't designed to be. If we say, what's a performance car, it'd be an engine that should be used for racing. Now, what the vast majority of people on this site would like to do is create a car that can pull it's own load w/o trouble, get good MPG, along with decent performance. Decent performance doesn't call for a v8, decent performance doesn't call for 12 second passes, heck, not even 13 second passes, and 14's aren't really required either. I think the masses around here would be more than happy with a car that perfromanced like a "modern" vehicle and drove like one also, 15 second passes would be nice, and 200 horsepower can acomplish that, but getting there will be the difficult spot. Turbo will do it, nitrous will do it ( but it's not always on) and a propper "modern" build up of the engine will do it.

So brobert, although i can understand some of your logic, infact a good portion of it, i just can't agree that you can't gain some better perfromance from a platform and make it perform good, there are only a few people on this board who are going to be wanting to race you, maybe doward or techsmurf, plus others (don't want to sell anyone short) and i honestly think that if you accepted the challenge, you'd need to watch out for those turbo boyz.

On a closing, just remember also, that although you will have a 245hp car, and i'm very glad for your find that you'll still be needing to mod also, just to keep up with a very very long list of cars, modern "sporty cars" true "performance cars" and even a fair share of "luxury vehicles"...best of luck.

 

Ok ill respond to each paragraph you wrote.

#1 lets not move on, all i have been saying is you throw 1k into a 2.8 and throw 1k into a v8 and youll ALWAYS see more power with a v8. Age had nothing to do with it. I never brought up a new engine like a ls1 for example. All i have been saying is a v8 is easier to mod and get more power for your $ vs a 2.8.

#2 , Your comment about if the 350 was such a performer is really non sence. I think everyone on the planet knows GM didnt push the limits of anything they made and besides i dont think they'd sell many 1000 hp 350's for fear of lawsuits when a novice driver buys one and crashes to his death. Also their is a reason why their isnt a v6 market and their never will be one besides for the here and there places that make blah products.

#3 to the first part, THANKYOU! I have been saying that. Also its not that you cant get more power out of these motors, its just that its easier to get more out of a 8 AND have it last! People talk about home made turbo's etc. Lets see how long these puny 6's last on boost.

#4 As soon as i get the swap complete ill post a scanned track slip. Whatever the time on it is, thats not the point. The point is a v8 will last longer, make more power, and is easier to get mods for and power out of then a v6.

#5 , im not dropping this motor in to keep up with anyone, in fact the only reason i got this motor is because it kinda fell into my lap. I got lucky with this one. BUT i have never said to anyone .
DROP A V8 in IT
YOUR STUPID FOR MODDING YOUR MOTOR
ETC

ITs just funny how some talk about all the mods they did to their car or they threw a 3.4 in it and how they are gonna stop a v8 car. AS LONG AS ITS STOCK , why does it have to be stock? Is it because mod for mod a v8 will always kick ***? Exactly! Thats all i have been saying.

Alot of v6 guys refuse to hear anything thats not a mod,power adder etc about these motors.

I've had my car for ,damn i forget how long. I've seen all the problems with these motors from my motor to others on here. I've looked at the stuff out there for these motors and the price for the stuff to vs the power you get. And when you add it up, its not worth dumping all that money into a v6 to go as fast as a stock v8. Much less money has a v8 gaining much more power, and i bet it will last longer.

Now that we have both written a book. lol

 

alright, so to solve it, books are needed, fair enough....

there are many agreeable points here, just a matter of conveying them as to not offend people....

MOD FOR MOD, A V6 WILL NOT MAKE THE POWER THAT MOD FOR MOD A V8 WILL!!! alright, done, agreed upon, there's not a way to make up for 2 extra power strokes, if the same modification would be done to the v8 car then the v8 car would do an even greater increase in power.

the 350 performer setup and a v6 true performer setup are in the same boat. Had GM engineered 1000hp v8 cars they would suffer insurance nightmares from accidents and un-drivability(of the car) plus internal damage of the engine, a v8, or a v6 won't make 1000 hp for long w/out some trouble....granted a rolls royce v12 was doing it in the second world war, but those engines had a tad more displacement , and i'm not just talking about the 4 extra cylinders and the supercharger.

I understnad why you got your v8, no probs there...i know how i got my v8 (thank *** to ebay, and a local guy w/ a northstar) timeslips aren't really needed as i'm not expecting any unbelievable times (11's , 12's, really 13's) not on a stock engine but if ur wanting to post em, so be it....best thing is to post all things related to the swap, and build up a nice detail of the entire thing, we'd like to know about it, and help you along your way.

On your new motor again, good job, and good score. The reason that you're putting it in, is because you'd like to have an engine w/ better performance in your car, and a v8 just happened to be offered to you, if you didnt have the v8, you'd either

A: drive your ride around and not enjoy it
or
B: Sell your ride and buy the v8 car

The biggest seller of the 3.4 swap (karl) has never mentioned stomping v8 cars, and i doubt he ever will, also ever notice how he tends to remain away from posts like this? (probalby a smart call on his part)

The end result, the v6 car is "underpowered" especially given the cars size and weight, however the car can be made into a reliable and dependable means of transportation that has enough power to move out of it's own way, it's just a matter of building according to this. If you plan to build a 300hp v6, go for it, the truth though is that you should have a pocket book deep enough to feed your apetitie, as a "True" Perfromer isn't gong to come along for 30 bux.

If we go and add tons of boost to a six, it's going to blow up, if you go and add tons of boost to your v8, it's going to blow up. If we are to forge the internals, lower the compression to 8:1 and boost the hell out of the six, it'll probalby last for a while, if you do the same to the v8 it'll have the same result...in the end, the person who builds it the best will have the one that will last the longest, if you can find the ability to create a good reliable platform, your car will perform like you've designed it to for long times to come.

 

Ill take pics and post everything. And if i didnt come across this deal i would have probably gone with a 3.4 because im not working right now and 3.4's are cheap easy swaps.

I wasnt referring to Karl, hes always helpful and really doesnt flame etc.

Btw id never sell my car. The thing i like about it is it doesnt have all the ugly gfx a trans am does. imo the trans am's look ugly as hell.

And OMG is this actually a conversation ending with a complete understanding and no flaming ? I was begining to think this wasnt possible!! lol

 

nah, we can start flaming if needed....infact...I LOVE GROUND FX!!!! so there....but opininos are like eh...we all know.

 

I would like to add or at least compliment the information regarding the much abused and overlook performance aspects of the 60* chevy V6, if the group here will allow me.

First and foremost let me say that the thought process behind's GM's design principles for creation of this type of motor was at the time in 1980 when Chevrolet introduced the "X" cars ( Citation, Pheonix, Skylark and Omega) and needed a powerplant to meet the needs of the changing automotive world i.e. escalating fuel prices, Federal fuel standards, tighter emissions standards, smaller lighter vehicles and tighter powertrain packaging, etc, etc. The 60* cylinder offset was to allow for the motor to be shoehorned into those cramped engine compartments of the cars noted above. Later on these same engines were found (due to their success ironically) in cars like Camaros, Cimmerons, Firebirds, Jeeps, Fieros, S10 pickups,Isuzus, Mercury marine inboards.

There were many changes made along the way - such as in 1985 when for example, the real main seal was changed to a one piece type.

Later still in 1987 the engine was improved and was known as the Generation II. I won't get into the details but the changes made were to improve the performance and reliability such has Aluminum heads and splayed intake and exhaust valves.

The 3.1 was added ion 1990 by increasing the stroke. It included dished pistons, low-tension piston rings, Single sized pistons, etc.

Fianlly in 1993, the 3.4 was born which had an entirely different block that was intended to handle additional displacement among other minor additions.

Now, based on this information so far it is fairly obvious the main purpose for the creation of this motor were for the reasons stated in the 1st paragragh. But this is were it seems that many in this v6 board have pretty much determined what the fate of the 60* is to be. I would like to enlighten those that believe this that GM had much more in mind than what meets the eye.

Rather than get into too many details it is a stated fact that the GM design engineers have been quoted as stating that the 2.8 is capable of "producing over 270 HP ROUTINELY and providing miles of trouble free operation." Now if my math serves me correct that happens to be about 1.5 HP per CI. Not bad. And this is the conservative end of the equation. And this is the meager 2.8! Normally asperated to boot!

Chevy was serious in doing what it took to make this a performance engine. How serious? Enough to make an Aluminum Bow Tie Block! Yes it existed.

Now, getting back to the 3.4. There are a few tricks with this motor that can be done ( and I have already done) that will make this engine not only durable but will have the potential of making as much as 400+ with a little bit of Nitous or boost, whichever your wallet may allow. One trick for example is to replace the stock connecting rods with forged 327 small journal ones. Your allowed one trick secret

And for those who think that 18+ PSI boosting of this little motor will grenade it to point of scattering the parts from here to Casabalanca, Morocco, think again. Pick up a copy of Corky Bell's book "Maximum Boost" and you'll know what I am talking about.

Lets' just say that there are deffinate advantages of overboosting a low cube v6 compared to that of a v8. Detonation is one key.

Now I'm not going to try to say that 3.4 is anywhere near that of the monster v6 3.8 that was put into the Grand Nationals and GTA, but it does make you wonder.

FWIW, I'm not making any statements or declarations to the point where I say that I can go out on the avenue and out run any v8 that happens to pull up to me at a traffic light. This is not realistic at all. I just like to be diferent and do the unexpected. Beating a few unsuspected tuners and v8's would be fun, but safety is the prime goal.

For those who think that that 2.8 is sleeze bag after thought that Chevy decided to make just to be able to allow the grocery getters of the world to get around in, look at the photo below.
'nuff said.

 

Ya beat me to it, and well put.

The 60º platform is, in my opinion, a very efficient little setup that has yet to be exploited in the F Body, due to the general basis of it being easier/cheaper to go with a V8.

What's all this talk of weight, anyway? '88 Camaro SC, V6 5 Speed, completely stock, and it weighs in at 2950. Add in the savings of a fiberglass hood, lexan windows, aluminum heads, billet wheels, aluminum driveshaft, and well... I think you get the idea.

As far as the $ vs $ - v6 vs v8, I'd like to point out that building a 350 is as easy as opening a summit catalog, and picking a package. Where's the fun in that?

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, and I really think everyone's going to be suprised with these turbo kits Vortex and I are fabricating. All I'm going to say right now, is that this 60º LOVES forced induction!

And yes, Maximum Boost by Corky Bell is a MUST READ for anyone wanting to better understand the torque production of a turbo'd motor.

'Turbos = torque. Torque = fun."

Love it....

 

ok i have a question now get mad if you want to but why make thousand dollar mistakes on a 2.8 instead of doing it right the first time?

 

Thousand dollar mistake?

Not following... Turbocharging an engine is a mistake?

Don't get mad or anything, but what are you running on that 400 sbc?

And how much have you spent getting there?

 

Hats off to 85F-bird and X55 cam (And oilpan he's seen what I have over at firebird v6). That what x55cam is showing is a 60* race motor (looks to be for midgets?). Nice to see that brobert is making an attempt to understand as well. Doward, get that turbo spooling and prove the boost response for us. Tiago over at firebirdv6 (have you heard of him?) has a turbo setup already for sale (although a bit overpriced). I wonder how fast it would be if it weighed 2700lbs......hmmmmmm.

 

Interesting project regarding Tiago's 3.4L turbo. With stock internals, he's putting out 336 RWHP and 397 RWTQ, quite impressive. He did a kit for a Camaro with a 3.8 and from what I've read can handle it's own against Viper and a supercharged Cobra.

I'm keeping close tabs on Dowards project also and taking in his methods as a way to determine how mine will come about. I will be performing a baseline with mine without the turbo to see what HP/Torque ratings are. The great thing about doing a turbo is that there are many ways to implement it and still have successful results as long as you follow a few simple rules.

I think for me anyway, it wil be an interesting summer!

 

Brobert isnt finally understanding anything, im still the same as i was before. main difference between 85f 's convo and I and Most others and I's conversations is he see's my points, he doesnt get pissed and whine like a retard in a candy store about how his v6 with dryer venting under the hood runs soo cool, or how because he did the 3.4 swap he can spin em into 4th and beat alot of v8's

It all comes down to what you like.

Like REAL power thats easy to get from many vendors and a motor that will hold up to mods etc. Then go with a v8.

Like searching for parts, making homemade stuff to try to squeze hp from a already weak motor, like adding nitrous to a tiny motor and pray it doesnt blow up. have alot of money? then keep the v6

Main thing is its your car do what the hell you want to it. But please dont make stupid comments like " The 305 is the worst motor gm made" Because making comments like that makes you sound like a bitter little v6 guy who smokes crack.

 

well to date not inlcuding my nitrous kit i have 1600 into the total drivetrain and if you wanna include my nitrous kit im looking at $2500 (the reason i havent included the kit its sitting at my friends shop collecting dust)


as far as mistakes go i seen someone take there 2.8 (on this board and make it slower) and no one but edelbrock makes anything for it and it costs alot for what it costs you for headers i can get ceramic coated headers etc etc ........

 

I guess your pointing this little remark at me based on a post on another board? Let me make one clarification:

THE 305 IS THE WORST V8 GM EVER MADE
Ok, does that make you happy? We'll maybe not?

Let me see if I understand this correctly:

This is a v6 message board. Your're boasting about how great it's going to be to pull out the 'weak' 2.8 , stuffing it with a great big Chevy V8, and calling someone a 'bitter little v6 guy who smokes crack' just because he said that the Chevy 350 was a better motor than the dogie 305? And making sure that he include JMO!!

Well, I guess there are some bitter little v8 guys smoking crack also.

 

comparing a 350 to a 305 is a different story, saying a 305 is the worst motor gm made is plain stupid.

Btw i wouldnt say a 305 or a 350 is a great big chevy. But compared to your tiny motor i can see how you can.

 

*hugs Gumby*

 

Maybe I'm a bit harsh on the 305:hail:

There is possibly a worse V8 that GM actually created that was put in the early 80's Malibu's. I don't recall the CU but it was a real dog and wasn't woth the effort to replace when it blew.

As far as Camaros are concerned, the 305 has to rank at the top followed by the 307. I think Chevy felt it had it's limitations which was a good reason enough to switch back to the 350.

But like you say, I'm just a little v6 guy smokin crack

 

Well that would explain why you think your v6 is so fast, your high!

Just kidding, Yeah compared to a 350 the 305 has less power and makes less power and can never really catch up to a 350 speaking mod vs $ vs power gained.

But how come when i say the same thing about a v6 vs a v8 some people get pissed?


Also i dont think its anything with the main design of the 305 since ALOT of other gm motors share the same design. I think its more of a bore size/cam size issue. A 305 can be made to make alot more power than stock, but yeah a 350 is easier and cheaper to make it with.

 

you V8 guys need to get off your high horse, i have seen 1.9L 4 bangers that your put your 800lb boat anchors to shame.

Hell, even the stock Dodge Neon SRT4 would kill 99% of you V8 tards in a dragrace, and lets not even get into how incapable the V8's are in the turns.

The LS1 is a good engine, the Northstar is a good engine, the L98 is a horribly in-effecient piece of **** that can hardly get out of its own way.

If you really want to talk about in-expensive motors, go grab a Toyota Supra Inline 6, or maybe even a BMW M30. These engines can both handle over 750hp on stock internals. Lets see an L98 do that.

 

******* like this is what i was referring to earilier. I've seen a kyx 500 with 60 lbs of boost blah blah blah, what are you talking about re re man? If you would have read we were talking about mod for mod not racing *******.

And as far as turning goes that has to do with suspension work NOT engine size! Damn women need to have more abortions!

I love how someone makes dumb comments and doesnt even know what the hell we were talking about.

 

Mod for mod, the 2JZ will obliterate a, "mod for mod" V8. I used to want a supra (had one for a week, gave up, too much body work). Talk about easy to work on! I could pull the head in under an hour! Those things don't really need a Turbo to make power. As for the BM motor.......Expensive parts suk.....But it is pretty solid (rebuilt one once).

 

yeah and this is tgo again not general car chat. We were speaking about modding v6 and v8 engines in 3rd gens not any v6 or v8 on the planet.

 

I give up, I have nothing else to say. People who know jack about engine dynamics **** me off. To the other V6 guys, I'm sorry I have drug this out as long as I have, I apologize.



















..............................Long live the 60*V6....................................

 

I think the problem is if summit doesn't sell it most people are lost when it comes to building an engine. Also following the crow is to tempting for others. All it take is some imagination and effort and anything is possible. Thinking out side the box is good. If you had the parts by the numbers a 2.8 should be able to spin 14,000 rpm

This has been a banner year in the Buick camp. A couple of guys got out the grinders and went to work. They just went to a solid setup and got 547Hp out of a 350. a street able one at that. The 455 guys are scared already and the secret weapon intake has not been installed yet. Aluminum heads have not even been casted yet by TA performance. [coming soon] The story is not even over and its gonna look scary for everyone not running a Buick 350.

The same can be done in our camp. 60* motors rock.

 

People who know jack about engine dynamics **** me off.
__________________________________________________

Kinda like an old post you made in which you told someone to

"get a 3.4 from a 4th gen firebird not a 4th gen camaro because the firebird motor is faster" LMFAO

You do a 3.4 swap and you turn into a v6 salesman...


" Long live the 60* v6"

Guess you havnt heard, its already dead!

 

Not as easily or as reliabliy(sp?) as you can on a v8. Look at the work it took am to get into the 15's man. Put that amount of work into a v8 and see what you run. You see these 500 plus v8's every place you turn, wheres the 60* v6 500 plus motors? If you can find one i bet theres not many more, if any more. And id hate to see what the guy spent on it!


The 60* is not a great motor. If it was GM would have never replaced it with something of a different design. End of story.

 

If the 60* is so dead, then why is GM coming out with a 3.6L 60* V6 with VVT (LY7) in 2004/05 that will make more power and torque than your precious V8?

http://service.gm.com/gmtechlink/ima...4g.html#story7

if you cant understand german, the numbers are in english:

350 lb-ft

 

Kinda like an old post you made in which you told someone to

"get a 3.4 from a 4th gen firebird not a 4th gen camaro because the firebird motor is faster" LMFAO

You do a 3.4 swap and you turn into a v6 salesman...


" Long live the 60* v6"

Guess you havnt heard, its already dead!
(since I dunno how to quote like Brobert...)

I never said anything to that effect. I've worked with more motors than you have pubic hairs. This will prolly get me in trouble, but I'm tired of your crap. You don't like the idea of a 60* motor performing, fine. But you don't know what engines can do, that is a FACT. I ask that the mods either lock these posts, or do somthing about this constant battle that has been waging. I come here because I feel I have somthing to offer (whether I do or not has yet to be decided...), I get agitated by someone insulting me and throwing my words in my face. It's ok, I'll prove to you what this little motor can do on a reasonable budget, it's not like others havn't, theve just been more mature than me about it. And again I say " I give up, drop the topic, the arguement is lame" Have a nice day people....

 

this topic is a beaten as rodney king there is only like 4 of you left trying to beat a dead horse and in another ten years no one will remember the 2.8


i know a few engine builders that if you asked them to build you a 2.8 they would laugh at you and these guys have cars that run low 8's so do that with a 2.8 and i think this arguement would be over but till that time i think you guys are crazy
as far as thinking outside the box goes hey you get a A+ for effort cause you like to waste countless hours for minimal gains but if your happy hey it is your ride

 

I dont even have a reply to the inmature inbread but to Fbodyteck, hum, you've worked on alot of these motors you say? But yet you didnt know the 3.4 in the 4th gen camaro is the same 3.4 that comes in the 4th gen firebird. I've read your other posts, your engine skills are marginal at best.

And what exactly can these 60* be made to do, on a thread in this section someone said am91 is the fastest of all you guys, 15 something? WOOHOO, all that work hes put into that 60* just made him as fast as a bone stock v8 with crappy gears!

If you get pissed when someone asks you a question about what you said then watch what you say.

If the 60* was so good gm would still be making it.
Hell even ked said the 3.4 create is no more!

Im sure this thread will be closed for other reasons though, i thought it was going ok untill some geek who fears people in the real world so he has to use profanity over the net to make himself feel good came in here.

 

MARGINAL!!!!!????? How dare you insult me! Techsmurf, lock these threads, someone has to. I will NOT tolerate personal assaults on my mechanical skills or my character, not by a highschool kid anyhow. LOCK THIS PLEASE. Thank you.

 

LMAO, dude chill, this got way out of control once that troll came in here. You have a pm man

 

I think things were going ok , we all had our opinions and we had a discussion untill a BMW owner came in here and all hell broke loose. Mod what you like, its your car. Hell if you want a iron duke so be it. This is getting stupid.

btw, the part about a 2.8 i have always felt could be improved is the plenum.

 

Brobert and I have worn off our craziness. But, to Z28guy, I know quite a few engine builders that would and have laughed as well. But then when you tell them you only want a little over 200hp, they say "oh, that's easy...". Anyhow, Broberts point was that they can't go dollar for dollar. If you want a race car, build a V8. If you want a wierd little project, keep the 60* 6.

 

It is definately one of the power limiting factors. The fiero guys have already figured that out.

 

To each his own.

Some people like walking up stairs, some people like to take the elevator, get over it.


The 60 degree engines were good for many applications, and were highly used in circle track vehicles.


Given mod for mod, more displacement WILL almost always win. Put 15PSI on a 3.1, and put 15PSI on a 5.7, see who puts more HP to the ground.

However, racing is NOT just about how much HP your engine puts out.

This whole discussion is over.

However, a lot of you need to be more tolerant of others ideas. You don't know whether the person typing is a bench racer or actually has real world knowlege. Either way, the argument over which is better, why, yadda yadda yadda is pointless. The only two things that matter in the end are who comes out on top and if everyone has fun trying. Us V8 guys I'm sure have had one or 2 losses to a surprising underdog, but also V6 guys, remember that stock for stock you are underdogs and 95% of the ideas, theories, engine buildups discussed on this board are never completed. It's fun to build something in your head, but a lot different when you have an easier cheaper way to reach your goal. Remember also the age difference. The way I see this whole site, the V6 crowd as a whole is a younger crowd just getting into cars. No this doesn't apply to the entire group, but the majority. I can't count how many V6 guys come here talking the V6 up, but eventually go to a V8. Everyone has pride in what they have, and that's ok, but remember that just because you have it and you like it does NOT make it the best (that goes for both the V8 guys and V6 guys on here).



END OF DISCUSSION (Tech, CC, add comments if you feel like it)

 

I take a couple days vacation having had to take next to no action for weeks and this is what happens?... *sigh*

I think you covered just about everything I might have had to say, Ovrclck...