How do you check a hermonic balencer. I was told my hermoic balencer is either shot or its just a bent pulley. How do I check for either of these? I mean the motor shakes and you can see where its shaking, but could it just be a pulley?

 

Easiest thing to do is a visual inspection of the balancer. The stock balancer is made of 3 parts- an inner steel hub, a rubber isolation ring, and an outer metal ring. Over time, the rubber deteriorates and falls apart. When this happens, the rubber starts poking out of the balancer sides.

On an okay balancer, all 3 parts are aligned. On one with bad rubber, the rubber starts poking out... as in, it's obvious to see the rubber. So remove the crank pulley, and then look at the balancer. If you see the rubber ring trying to "escape", it's time for a new balancer.

It'd be hard for a pulley to bend on it's own unless you just got into an accident or something...

 

TomP - I thought I remember hearing somewhere that you can replace that little rubber sleeve (actually I think it was when pricing out ). Is that what you were referring to when you said "it's time for a new balancer" or are you referring to replacing the whole thing? If you are referring to the whole thing, is it because changing that rubber sleeve more trouble than its worth (if it is indeed possible)?

 

Yea, i thought it woul dbe easier replacing the whole thing, maybe not tho. Thanks TomP

 

I think you'd still need to pull the balancer to replace the sleeve, but it should be a whole lot cheaper than replacing the whole balancer itself.

C'mon Karl, ..............speech, speech

 

Has anyone tried replacing the balancer sleeve?? Is it straight forward or is it advisable to get a new balancer? Are they expensive for the 2.8?

 

Yeah, where is Karl, anyway?

No, the sleeve is an entirely different thing- it's not rubber. If the rubber isolation ring is deteriorated and separating from the balancer, then you need a new balancer.

A "harmonic balancer repair sleeve" is a micro-thin shell of metal. Where the balancer slides onto the crank snout, the balancer slides into the timing chain cover's seal. Over millions of miles, that front cover seal will actually wear a groove into the balancer and cause a leak.

The repair sleeve is only used if you have a leak from the front of the engine that's coming from the balancer. You'd pull the balancer, tap this $5 sleeve onto the end, and put the balancer back on. Well... technically you should also replace the $5 front seal while you're at it, too.

Here's a link to a repair sleeve- keep in mind that it's overall diameter is about that of a quarter. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...rt=FEL%2D16202

Now, say you did your timing chain- and you pulled the balancer. You'd inspect the balancer tip (the side that faces the engine) for a groove. If it's a deep groove, you'd tap on the repair sleeve.

But if the balancer's shot, the only fix is a new balancer. I think a new GM one is $50. But inspect your balancer first! I got a "new" one out of a junkyard for $30- and technically, got ripped off. All 2.8/3.1/3.4 balancers were "neutral balanced", so you don't have to worry about anything- just get one and slip it on. Oh and don't use the center bolt of the crank to pull a new balancer on...

Hope that helps!

 

Ahhhhh, thanks for the info tom. I always thought the sleeve had to do with the rubber on the balancer. I will have to check that when I rip it apart.

So a balancer where this rubber is deformed will create some engine vibrations??

What are referring to though when you say "neutral balanced"??? I thought that the balancer had to be balanced as well to prevent vibrations?

 

Thanks TomP, i thought you had to buy a whole new unit, btu wasn't sure.

 

Hey, no problem!

Eddie, you're right, the balancer does need to be balanced. But, by "neutral balanced", it means that it's balanced "by itself". That's opposed to being balanced along with the crankshaft and flywheel as a full assembly.

For instance, 87-up 2.8/3.1/3.4's are all internally balanced. You can change the crank or flywheel or flexplate without worrying about anything. The only thing you'd need rebalanced is the crank if you had the crank milled.

But, say on my '86, my auto tranny's flexplate cracked. Technically I couldn't just throw on a junkyard flexplate. I'd need to pull the crank, bolt the flexplate to the crank, and bring that assembly to a machine shop to be balanced.

Some motors that require balancing- usually the high $$ race motors- can actually get balance weights on their harmonic balancers. If the balancer needs replacement, the whole deal has to be balanced again.

So neutral balanced means that you don't have to worry about anything being out of whack when you slide on a new balancer.

Damn, I meant to take a picture of my old rotted balancer last night, shoot. I'll try to remember tonight.

 

eeeeks! That means that if the flywheel was machined wrong last summer when I changed the clutch, then the only way to properly fix the balance issues would be to take the flywheel and crank in to the shop for balancing??

Just out of curisouity, what is the rationale for not including the balancer in the mix. I would have thought if you are going to include the flywheel that they would include the balancer too?

So the other question that I am still not sure about is would the balancer (with deformed rubber or whatever) be enough to cause vibrations above 3000rpm, even though it is so small??

 

Anybody know what other cars our harmonic balancer went on? I'm gonna head to pickapart sometime this weekend, because the rubber on mine has slipped. So far by just looking randomly at the cars that use it, iI found the Fiero and Corsica, and the F-bodies use it. Any idea which cars I can look under for a good balancer?

 

I think any GM 2.8 will do the trick, i still have no had time to replace mine yet

 

Tom, been very busy summer!
Harmonic balancer snout repair sleeves
part numbers
Fel Pro
16212
"future number" 21-2512

Pioneer
14908
HB-4127-S

Each $4.
I'd suggest any 60*V6 FWD up to 87 should help ya in search yet....
Really resist temptation to drive ride. IF that comes apart during driving, it can land anywhere & injure anyone. That's what I was told & yes, I parked car, also.

14029033 is the balancer part number, if correct.
ME?
I'd find a LA Business yellow pages and call engine rebuilders.
OR even open Recycler for the places.
Just keep calling til ya find someone to sell ya the balancer.
Why crawl on ground for a dirty used part like that?
Let your fingers do the walking! Let someone else hand ya a good used cleaned part, for effort of a short drive.
THERE ARE LOTS of engine rebuilders in the San Fernando Valley!!

 

Problem is there aren't too many engine builders here in Irvine and I don't have another car that I can use to get to class.
Right now I have my friend's car and I'm gonna head to Anaheim's Pick a Part after class, once I get a few balancers, I'm gonna come back and work on my car at my place. She's held up so far, cross your fingers so she can go that last 5 miles.

 

I would phone the engine rebuilders in LA
Chances ya score easier!
Santa Ana has lots of rebuilders, too.
I'd spend the $1 & look in recycler & you may be surprised.
You can always go to the wrecking yard on Saturday if your search fails.
I think you'll score way easier by using the OC Recycler as your source of numbers, Matt

 

I just found out yesterday that the rubber seal between the harmonic balancer and the time chain cover went out. When I shut off the car there is a clanging and decided to look at it and SURE ENOUGH. The question is how long can I get by driving the car before I fix it? I have an appointment next week with a mechanic to fix it, but I was wondering if I should stop driving it until then. Thanks.

 

At the Anaheim/Stanton pickapart, there was a Fiero, but the motor was missing, so I look to the side, and there I find the whole motor, just lying on the floor, the 2.8 Fiero motor... I thought to myself... holy crap, this motor was meant to be here... and I pulled the balancer. Cost me $22 and all the misc tools I put a deposit on (gonna get that back). I'll take pics of the old balancer tomorrow morning, let me just say, if you have the choice of not driving it, then by all means, STOP DRIVING IT!

 

Amazing how many solutions are found, tossed aside in the wrecking yard.
I had called a local rebuilder outta curosity, but never a reply back.

 

This is a bad harmonic balancer

 

another shot

 

Last one

 

YOU ARE SO BLOODY LUCKY that did not explode on you.
Imagine IF that separated at high RPMs, while driving....
You are so Bloody Lucky.
Now go buy a lottery ticket!

 

Indeed Karl, indeed... Wed I'll go pick up a ticket... haha

 

how is it bad? Also, if it IS bad, what does it do to your engine performance wise?

 

It would've been bad, very bad, if the outer ring would've slipped at 2000 RPM, then BOOM, dent in the hood, and BANG no more 2.8.

 

When a balancer separates at high speed, it's like a bullet being fired.
But the bullett weighs about 3 pounds.
Dent in hood is least of worries.

 

Right now my balancer just rattles freely because the rubber seal is shredded between the timing chain cover and the balancer. When I shut the engine off, it sounds like metal clining, and that's how I found out it was the balancer. I'm just curious to how that can effect my car, because i'm getting it fixed, but my engine is having some serious problems right now so I don't know if there are more problems going on.

Thanks.

 

Can a balancer just wobble and be bad or is that more then likely a pulley? Thanks

 

Yup, it certainly can. This past summer I learned that one myself. The balancer had a wobble to it but the pulley was still true. The balancer ring had shifted on the rubber causing a wobble but the hub (which the pulley is attached to) was still true on the shaft. The ring had shifted about a 1/4". Oddly enough though when I put the new one on there was literally no change in the vibration issue I would've thought for sure that would have caused a problem.

 

So what's the GM part number for the harmonic balancer? Autozone it's $107, Advance has it for $84.

 

14029033 is the balancer part number, if correct.

Answer from the reply I gave earlier!
I got number this from the GM performance parts catalog

 

Comes up with nothing under GM Parts Direct. And Palm Chevrolet won't give me the number.

 

My reply can only offer this
The pub I pulled that number from was printed back in early 90's.
Recently discovered a new trick of GM.
They "discontinue parts" including numbers. Then sometimes they reintroduce the same part, different number, different application.
I was told by an engine rebuilder that they sell that part new for $90.
I know when I removed the balancer on my 211,600 mile Blazer 2.8 mill, it separated in my hand.

 

This is the first thing I will be buying soon for my new motor and have it custom fitted to the crank and then have the ASP powerpulley redrilled and balanced to fit-

The crank, flexplate, balancer, and pulley will be going to the machinist for complete lightening and balancing of the whole assembly including shaving the DIS lobe on the 3.4 crank.

Fluidampr Aluminum signiture series dampner for SBC
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...60&prmenbr=361

 

Before I took a trip to Pick A Part, I called the dealer to see how much a balancer would cost. $239!!!!!
So I pretty much said, nope too much $$ for me. I did get the current P/N for the balancer tho.
10146863 will show up on GMPartsdirect. I think their price is $160 + shipping... still too much for me.
$21.43 + $2 admission off a Fiero 2.8 was much better!

 

Anyone make a performance balancer???

It should be as much or cheaper then GM.


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