Couple questions about timing chain stuff that I couldn't find in searches:

1. Just curious if there is anything special required when installing the timing chain cover and chain guide. Do the holes go into the water jacket or somewhere where the thread sealant needs to be used?

2. I have heard some say it is important to replace the chain guide/dampner thingy. Just wondering why since some engines don't come with it and apparently some chains for the 2.8 I have heard don't have it as well (cloyes?). What exactly is it's purpose and are they typically bad? I don't hear the chain slapping....

3. I read a lot about installing the harmonic balancer and not using a hammer etc, but what about the crank gear? Is that press fit too or just bolted on like the cam gear? If press fit, I would assume you shouldn't hammer that either, right?

thanks.

 

Yes, I believe that does go to an oil passage... they'll need to be blocked off, at the very least.

A new timing set is only like $25. If you're that far into the motor, I'd replace it, and the water pump - just as a precaution.

 

A word of advice, if the crank gear isn't really worn, don't jack with it, I t was a real pain on both of my motors (2.8 and 3.4). And you'll need an impact or a LOT of creativity to get the crank pully and damper off, so be prepared to be annoyed.

 

Its not hard to do the chain, just time consuming. Make sure you get the Harmonic balancer puller and the installer and a gear puller.

If the crank pulley moves, get under the car, remove the flywheel inspection cover, and jam the flywheel w/ a screwdriver. That'll make it way easier!

 

Got the tools tonight ready for tomorrow (geasr puller and balancer puller/installer.

Peeked at the pulley tonight and saw 5 bolts on the crank pulley (1 big one in the centre and 4 around the outside). Do all 5 hold the pully on or does the pully fit over some?

How do you guys normally put the crank gear back on, pull it on with the centre bolt??

So all bolts for the cover, water pump and chain guide have to be thread sealed??

thanks.

 

Yes, all the bolts hold the pulley on. I don't remember if you have a manual or auto, but w/ a manual, you could just stick it in gear, but w/ the auto, you'll have to jam the flywheel to remove all 5 bolts. IIRC, the 4 bolts are 15mm and the big one is either 18 or 19mm. Make sure the engine won't turn and the bolts will come off easily.

I don't remember having to put sealant on the bolts, I just used a lot of RTV to seal the mating surfaces (pump to chain cover, chain cover to block). Follow the sealant applicating guide in the Haynes manual (tells you where to put the sealant).

The crank gear... I used a rubber mallet to put it on. It worked... eventually. Might be easier if you get a block of wood and a real hammer. Just make sure its even when you're getting it on there.

 

NO!! DON'T PULL ANYTHING ON WITH THE CRANK CENTER BOLT!!!

I snapped my crank bolt flush with the crank snout by trying to pull the balancer on. I pulled the new crank gear on with the bolt okay, then when I was pulling the balancer on, the bolt stopped turning. Tried to back it out and remove it, and it snapped. It snapped flush with the end of the crank, so it went to my mechanic. He gave me 3 options- pull the motor and replace the crank, spend hours drilling it and trying to tap it, or weld the balancer to the crank for $100. I had him weld the balancer on. It's been that way since 1998.

You can rent (or buy, they're only $15) a "ducksfoot puller" to pull the balancer off. You can also rent (or buy, again, $15) a 3-jaw gear puller to yank the crank gear off. Don't bother with a 2-jaw $8 puller- I tried one and it bent all to hell; had to buy a "real" 3-jaw puller.

The 4 small bolts hold the pulley to the balancer. The big center bolt holds the balancer onto the crank.

I coat the water pump bolts (all of 'em) with blue RTV; especially the one on the "extreme" passenger side. I'm 99.9% sure that you don't need sealant on the regular timing chain bolts- just the water pump bolts- but don't hold me to that one.

89V6FBIRD's got the right idea for the balancer & crank gear. I was told "don't use the hammer & block of wood method" because it could ruin the crank at the back of the motor. Well, I ruined the crank at the FRONT of the motor instead. Remember you need to put a block of wood between the balancer and the hammer b/c the balancer is a 3-piece setup; center metal hub, rubber isolation ring, outer metal hub. If you just hit the edge of the balancer with a hammer, you'd tear the rubber ring apart and wind up with a bad balancer.

You can also try to make a balancer/gear installer. You need a section of threaded rod - in metric, so it's hard to find. But you thread the rod into the crank. Then you slip the gear or balancer over the rod. Then you slide a large washer on, and a nut. Then just tighten the nut to draw the balancer or gear on. This way, in case anything screws up, you "just" ruin the nut- you don't ruin the crankshaft. But you'll need metric threaded rod which could be hard to find in that big of a size for the center of the crank, it's late and I'm not quite sure of this number, BUT- I believe the crank bolt is a 12x1.50 metric thread- aka "big".

 

If he got the one from Autozone then it should come w/ the threaded inserts to install the balancer. Works great!

 

wew! thanks for the info guys. I'm feeling good now about getting at this today.

89V6 firebird - yeah, it is manual so that should help in getting the bolts off.

TomP - yeah I remember you situation with the crank bolt when doing the balancer I just wasn't sure if it was a different situation with the gear or not. I will definitely heed that warning though cuz with my luck it will happen to me too! Now that I think of it though the balancer tool is an installer too.....will that work for installing the gear as well??

oh, oh, one more thing I forgot...about that repair sleeve. If I recall correctly that is to be used if there is some sort of groove on the balancer itself? Can you use the sleeve no matter what or only if there is a certain amount of wear???


thanks guys, much appreciated.

 

Well chain and cam sprocket is off. Just debating whether I should remove the crank gear or with the earlier suggestion of just leaving it. Any other thoughts???

Is there any installer for that gear that can be rented or bought or are you forced to hammer it on? I noticed it goes way past the end of the crank so you wouldn't be able to "pull it on very far with any threaded bolt or rod.....

thoughts?

 

anyone?

 

REPLACE IT!

The timing gears develop a wear pattern, just like a flat tappet camshaft.

 

hmmmmm, looked at it and it did show a bit of wear so I probably should do it then.

What about installing it though. Is there some type of installer or are you forced to hammer it on??

 

A really big socket, or (like I use) a piece of 2" exhaust pipe.

 

its not that bad to put on a balencer using the crank bolt. It you have any doubts, get a new bolt, and be sure to lube the surfaces, you'll be fine.

 

Uh oh! I didn't seal any water pump bolts. Just sealed the gasket. I hope that doesn't cause any problems.