Any one want to buy lighter stronger parts?
I'm not trying to sell any thing just want to know what people are thinking.
I have come to like grade 5 and 9 Ti it is good stuff.
Lower grade CP or grade 2 looks like it is only good when used in short sections and for compressive loads only(rear LCA's).
How about 2-2.5lb wonder bar, torque arm that weighs about 4-5lb, rear LCA's at about 2lb each, a tower to tower STB that weighs about 2.5 - 3lb and track bars.
Bare Ti or Powder coated?
Some how most retail after market steel parts cost about what the raw stock would cost me. Like a $60 wonder bar = about 60 some dollars woth of stock. Rear LCA's about $100 (on ebay)= about $100 woth of Ti depending on for the middle section if I use grade 9 tube or cheaper CP tube. Torque arms, same thing. STB's are a dime a dozen and don't count.
I was thinking about geting a powder coating system be cause I know how much the ricers love this stuff and NO one in nothern japan does it to small parts and for cheap.

 

How does Ti weigh up vs Chromoly steel? I'd be interested in a set of Ti LCA's, at least...

 

I wouldn't mind a set of LCA's either. How much and when could I get them?

 

Anneled CP or grade 2 Titanium is about as strong as anneled mild steel but 50% lighter.
Heat treated grades 5 and 9 are far stronger with the same weight.
For LCA's I need 1.25 X .100 wall tube for the ends, it has proved to be hard to find.

 

Well, there's a bigger issue at hand than just the normal weight savings. If I'm thinking correctly this morning, the torque arm is unsprung weight, as are the LCAs. There's a number of other parts that would be good candidates for this too that would contribute to unsprung weight reduction... track bar (panhard) and torque arm bracket on the rear, and a few brackets and steering components on the front...

panhard, torque arm, and LCAs would have to be adjustable to get any decent following, of course.

 

Help me understand a little. Whats the difference between sprung and unsprung weight?

 

Torque arm and bracket would also be on my list. LCA's are at the top of it though. Rest of my suspension I'm happy with what I've put in.

 

sprung weight is weight carried by the suspention, such as the engine, body, and so on. Unsprung weight is weight that isn't such as the tires, wheels or rims, and in our case our rear axle.

 

also to further add to this.
unsprung weight that is part of moving suspension
that extra mass takes time to move.
kinda like trying to swing a small pen vs trying to swing a huge frying pan from a dead stop
the small pen would respond to changes a lot easier
kinda like suspension
if you have heavy unsprung weight when you hit a bump it will tend not to be absorbed by the suspenion due to that heavy mass and and instead transfered to the body itself causing a little unstability

 

Right. So any reduction in unsprung weight translates directly into two very nice benefits. One, the tires maintain better contact with the road surface, and two, with less of the energy transferred to the body, you get a more comfortable ride. Personally, I'm swaying towards the comfortable ride

 

A diagram out of Fred Puhn's "How To Make A Car Handle"

 

I found out that Titanium is far stronger than I orignaly thought.
I took the first piece of Titanium I welded and cut center section out that was unwelded. I took the lesser of the 2 welds and put it in a vice and started banging on it with a 2lb hammer expecting it to break. It did not. I started hamering on it as hard could and it still did not bend or break. I hammered it bead up and bead down.
I would not break my weld or bend the materal. I did make white sparks while striking it and left hammer marks all over it.
It is only a peice of .100'' thick anneled grade 5 titanium (6Al-4V-Ti).
It would flex about a 1/4 to a 3/8 of an inch and spring back. the weld aera looked like it flexed less then the metal.
If I beat a peice of anneled mild steel that thick the way I did with the titanium I would have formed it into the shape of the vice.
It is far stronger than I ever thought it could be.

 

that also shows a slight problem with it.
if you set up a automatic hammer to pound on it that way all night, and you come back in the morning... its probly going to be fine.
do that nonstop for a few weeks... one day, it'll just break from the stress... not bend, but snap.

that is, if the stress is high enough. otherwise it'll last forever.



that said, i wouldnt hesitate to use it if i could.... btw, there already is a company out selling Ti LCAs for 4thgens (same thing as ours)

 

Any chance you can remember the name of the company?

 

nope, but i can google it.....

google got me this:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165051

from that thread i got a link
and i searched there and got this:

http://www.paceparts.com/index.asp?P...D&ProdID=85388

 

Thanks...yahoo got me nothing

 

Who uses Yahoo anymore?

 

yahoo sucks...

so does excite...

i pretty much only use google now..... they're about the only major search engine left... the rest are ad laden "web portals"

 

I use it for the simple fact that I've been too lazy to change my computer to go to google when I hit the search button...guess I should really change it at this point.

 

Thanks! I was wondering how the distribution worked for intermediate parts.
This product also brings up the point I mentioned earlier. I would take Spohn units in a heartbeat over these for the adjustable spherical rod ends.

 

Those guys sell them for $250 a pair and they weigh as much as steel ones. How many people need LCA's twice as strong as fabed steel ones?
I see there Ti supplier is RMI, I have some of there stuff.
It all most looks like they put RMI up there to look like that is the type or grade of Titanium, RMI Titanium.
Now what it dosen't say is what grade or alloy there useing.
If your buying them for $250 I bet it's fully made form CP or Grade 2.
I was thinking if I made them and sold them I could do it for $180-$220 at the most. I was going to make them out of grades 5 & 9, only grade 2 If that's all I can find/If people want them cheap as hell.
Note the first sentence I typed, said stronger and lighter parts.
The hole idea being that the Titanium part is stronger than the stock parts but far lighter than the stock part and even lighter than the fabricated steel parts.
Like the Torque arm, the stock one weighs 13.5lb, I think some one said depending on the brand the after market ones weigh between 7lb and 8lb, the Tianium version, 4lb or 5lb.

 

Well Yahoo's powered by Google... which gets you an idea of how Google can stay relatively ad-free and still make coin. Don't know about excite tho. I always used Yahoo also until they started with that "pop up a video ad dead-center of the screen" bull, then I changed to google and never went back. Their free pop-up blocker works great too!

Yahoo has their "secret stripped version", too: http://search.yahoo.com

 

Get a set of grade 5 or 9 made up and send them out to me with the bill...one of the last parts I'm wanting for my suspension.

 

i would make it a point to NOT have rod ends... they suck for any street car you plan to put high miles on.

but if i was going the rod end route.... the usual alum/rod end bars would be what id get..... still much stronger then stock.. still wont flex on extreme launches... lighter then stock, and much cheaper.

 

Tublar A-arms would be neat.

Drive shaft?
Crank shaft???
Adjustable 60* push rods?

 

Well I got some, a small amount of tube grade 5, 1.25'' dia with .070'' thick wall.
It's safe to say I could keep them well under $200 even more if I send them with out busings.
I thought the middle bar would be the price killer, but it won't be this way if I can get more for around what I got the stuff I got today.
Now it would be nice to get some thing to make the ends out of.
I think for LCA's to take stock or stock replacement bushings the ends have to be 2'' with 10ga wall.
Rod end LCA's are gay.
To make a drive shaft out of Titanium I would have to cut yokes out of Ti billet.
Ti crank, not even.
I have seen used Ti push rods on ebay.
I want to make Frount LCA's too some day.

 

Y'all do know what happens to Ti when it gets a scratch right?

I'll NEVER put Ti on or in my car for the very same reason you need to buff the **** out of a Ti con rod, it doesn't take well to marring and one good scratch makes a nice big crack.

 

but you do know how hard it is to scratch titanium, right?

Titanium, while very strong, is considered brittle - it'll break before it bends.

I would like to see a Ti Tq arm, myself.

And why are rod ended LCA's gay??? How can taking ALL deflection out of the bushings be bad?

They will make for a rougher ride, yes, but if you are racing, they are good!

Also, FYI - Titanium is as strong as steel, but 45% lighter. It is 60% heavier than aluminum, but twice as strong!

 

powder coat em to prevent scratches.

 

I only will use grade 5 and 9, grade 2 is a maybe.
Grade 5 (AMS4956, Ti-6Al-4V alloy) & grade 9 (AMS 338, Ti-4Al-2.5V alloy) are comprised of an Alpha ( a ) beta ( b ) crystal structure.
b crystal structures are hexagonal.
a crystal structures are cubic.
a - b are both structures together in the same space. The structures intersect every were like the roots of trees making them very strong.
There are alloys coupled with heat treating that can make them with more b and less a or the other way around, but I won't be using any thing like that.
b only alloys like Ti-3Al-8V-6Cr-4Zr-4Mo are by far the strongest and most complex. But with there strength comes inherent brittleness.
But if I were going to stuff any kind of metal in my flack vest I would get a sheet of High Molybdenum and Zirconium content alloy. They are the best ballistic armor.
a only alloys like Ti-5Al-2.5Sn are very weld able but are not as strong. They flex with out breaking but are weaker.
Now the a - b alloys (grade 5 and 9) are the best of both worlds, that is one reason there the most common.
I will be geting all of my Titanium from RMI and timet.

 

I wouldnt worry too much about that on a car. I work on the space program where we build things to work perfectly for 15 to 20 years and we use a lot of Ti. All our parts are vibration tested to 4 times the stress they would see in the field and Ive never seen or heard of titanium failing. Machining it on the other hand is very tricky and I hope oil pan has done some already