camaro350man

As all you know i have so many problems with blowing Y pipe gaskets My mechanic said that my car has to much back pressure in the exhuast which is causing me to blow threw seals, i said that can't be right, he said that the gaskets are not blown yet, however it is your exhuast valves that the back pressure has recked, he wants to rip my whole exhuast off and check it, and i said no, not yet, i want to double check, idk what to do. It sounds like it is leaking and makes a noise when you floor it or when the car is under load. (like lifters ticking) I have done everything on this car, manifold gaskets, y pipe, muffler etc. I don't see how it can be to much back pressure, would the car run like crap and over heat? Everything is 6 months old on it and the car does continue to blow the dounuts. (about every month) The muffler is a stock advanced muffler along with the cat. Everything is stock It back fires from the intake sometimes if i floor it, but i don't think thats related to it. The motor runs awesome to. Anyone who can help would be great

Doward

Are you running those FelPro or Victor replacement donuts? They are a fiber/metal thing, that you can literally rip by hand.

If so, DITCH THEM.


They = suck.

Go to the GM dealer, and get the original IRON DONUTS. That's what I had to do - I CONSTANTLY blew out the FelPro replacements!

Check your cat, and your muffler - make sure neither is clogged up.

Yeah, sounds to me like you're getting set up for a little up-da-butt action.

camaro350man

Thanks for all of the info Doward. i have learned that if there was to much bakc pressure the car would run like **** and have little to no power, my car still drives fine. Also my car does not go above 190-954 when driving and when I'm on the gas alot it doesn't go passed 200. So I should be all set there. I will try the gaskets like you has said and see what happens? If my cat was a clogged i would know easily am I right? Thanks again, I will go down to the shop and talk to him monday and explain this to him

Doward

Not a problem... do not be suprised if he/she acts all stuffy 'oh, I've been doing this since before I was conceived, and I know what I'm talking about, you're young, dumb, and don't!' with that attitude.

I ALWAYS recommend doing the work yourself. You know it's done right, and if it fails, you only have one person to blame!

kretos

ain't that the truth, plus only you really care about your car, most mechanics could give a rats *** about your car or how its treated

camaro350man

Thanks man. I dr0ve around today and it still has the same power, stays around 195 and sometimes hit 200 if i'm on it, but when driving thats it. If it sits them it will get to 220 in about 5 mins. Sound right? I am looking now for the cast iron gaskets. How hard is it to get them to sit right on the manifold? And was it TomP that recommanded filing the iniside out? Thanks again

KED85

Go to the GM Counter & ask for the proper exhaust doughnut for your ride.
IT is a very strong fiberous material, based upon a metal cylinder.
Those over the parts counter ones, do wear out plus they do not "seat properly".
For the life of me, I cannot figure out what Tom was speaking about.
The metal to file back inside these GM exhaust ones is so minute in the scheme of things.....
The BIG problem back in your area of salt snow rust is breaking free those 15mm long bolts with the spring attached to bolts.
Go get the factory doughnuts & bring to the guy. Ask him to install.
Have on hand the exhaust pipe replacment bolts, too, just in case.

camaro350man

Thanks man, he is telling me that the ones i picked up will be loud anyway. I said I don't care. He is saying there is exhuast coming from the "exhuast check valve" something like that. Is any of this possible? He said its happening because to much back pressure? Thanks guys

Doward

NO such damn thing. The ONLY 'valve' hooked to the exhaust system, is the AIR check valve from the exhaust - $10 @ Autozone.

TechSmurf

Nice call, Doward

camaro350man

What can make exhuast come from there and where is that? To much back pressure? The motor runs fine other then the stupid exhuast. Thanks guys

KED85

Here is what tends to happen
Your area is full of rust snow salt.
Just been back to Poconos, PA & saw the damage to those cars.
Requiring frequent exhaust replacement. Complete.
The factory manifolds are kinda weak, often cracked, flake out.
Even my manifolds in Southern California were cracked when I got my car. Passenger side.
Point being, it happens. It usually happens when ya get car lifted by floor jack at wrong spot of "frame".
Previous owner probably took your car to the same current exhaust guy you are visiting now.

My Mom's Jimmy.
I rode in it once. I visited the underside due to excessive noise while hitting bumps.
Newer exhaust system (it's a 1995), "recent".
The tail pipe is wacking rear leaf spring, passenger side.
Quality work, ya know....

IF your Cat Convertor is "shot/excessivly clogged" yeah, you could be contributing to a "higher" back pressure, up front (manifold doughnuts).
Likey?
Get those factory items, slip them in & see what happens.
THEN find another exhaust shop!
PS Pipe mating to the doughnuts at manifold, must have "fluted" ends (factory), not a hard angle cut. IF that "Y" pipe was replaced at one time, well....

camaro350man

Thanks guys
So where is the Air check valve? Back pressure will make exhuast come out of it? Its a new cat. The car runs fine other then the stupid exhuast leak. I am going to replace the dounuts with the stock iron ones and see how that goes. What is the worste that the check air valve could do? What does it do anyway? Thanks guys

KED85

ON passenger side is all the exhaust pollution stuff.
Follow all the hoses/parts while engine is running.
See if ya feel any leaks.
On my 1985 Blazer, I have "same stuff".
Trying to see pics in Helms book with no luck.
Follow all those hoses/connections on passenger side.

camaro350man

What does this check valve do though? I know the system is not leaking. I will double check tonight though. Should i check into the check valve or just do the exhuast dounuts? Would I be able to tell if that valve was bad? My mechcanic is saying there is to much back pressure forcing exhuast to come out of the check valve. Thanks guys

KED85

I just closed my 1985 Helms F Body book.
I could not find a "check valve"
NOT saying it doesn't exist, but it would certainly seem to be along the hoses/fittings on your car manifolds.
I will say that your exhaust leak will
EASILY
leave a trail,
be it white powder or black soot.
Make sure the checking period is bright sunlight.
OR a flashlight, small for those check angles.

camaro350man

I kjnow where it is leaking, out of the exhuast y pipe gaskets. He said its leaking out of that valve. Now does it mean that its going inside the motor somewhere? I think its on the egr pipes? Should I just replace it? I highly doubt I have to much back pressure because it would run like crap and over heat a lot which it doesn't. Any more help would be great

KED85

When I had my manifold crack period (before I replaced my manifolds), the idle was terrible.
Is exhaust going back into engine?
I'd more say it's releasing fumes underhood/under car.

camaro350man

Well I replaced them and they are leaking like a B****! I spent 5 hours in the freezing cold changing the stupid dounuts. I'm SICK OF IT! They leak more then the old ones! This is stupid! Its going back to the shop and they can do whatever the F*** they want to it, I'm sick of all of it! I have done the stupid thing 10 times within the last year. This is just stupid! Don't say headers because they have not yet made any for my car! now what?

camaro350man

This just sucks! And its annoying as hell!

Doward

The stock solid iron donuts are leaking?? They can't blow - they are solid IRON!

Check your flanges, make sure they aren't F'd up. Also, make sure that as you are tightening the 2 bolts on each side, that you tighten them EVENLY!! (VERY IMPORTANT)

I honestly do not understand the problem - if it's TIGHT, the flange will actually form the pipe into the donut - and it'll seal nicely.

Sucks man.

camaro350man

They are tight. I think it is leaking at the top where it meets the manifold and not where it meets the Y pipe Now what, getting pissed never easy i tell ya

TomP

LOL, Karl! Some guys might say the same thing about porting their heads, too...

Simply put- there's a ridge in the middle of the cast iron donut- file it down smooth. Done. You guys are making way too big a deal about this. Someone needs to take one off their car and just LOOK inside!

camaro350man

What can I do about this leak? Thanks for all the help

Doward

If it's leaking from the manifold, then I'd make sure it isn't cracked -

They DO make headers for our cars - PaceSetter does.

You might change out your exhaust manifold gaskets - I'd suggest replacing the bolts, as well.

KED85

Is your "Y" Pipe the original one?
Was that "Y" pipe once replaced?
The ends of factory "Y" pipe is "fluted".
Not straight angle cut.

camaro350man

Yeah the Y pipe is orginal. It leaks where the surface meets the manifold. The thing is tight too. Shouldn't leak at all. It pours out of the drivers side. It leaks a bit on the passenger side but not as bad I don't think. Any ideas would be great? Thanks

KED85

I'm stumped....
Meaning it sounds so correct......
Take it to another shop?
Did the GM offered doughnuts recess/seat properly into the exhaust manifolds, by that metal lip?
What does exhaust pulse feel like at tail pipe?
What happened over a year ago to cause this exhaust leakage, as ya been chasing it for that long?

camaro350man

I was using soft ones that formed to the manifold but after a month they tend to blow apart. I decided to go back to the ones GM put in, cats iron ones. They are tight but they leak like crazy. I will try loosening and snuging back up. PAIN IN THE A**! Its almost 0 here so its cold

Dale

iTrader: (12)

enough said.

KED85

Recently was in Minus 6* weather.
No I wasn't lying on ground
I feel for ya.

Doward

Yeah, I'd almost say ditch your current manifolds/stock Y pipe and go with the pacesetter headers/y pipe - if you can afford it. You'll be a HELL of a lot happier in the long run!

IIRC, stock, the manifolds do NOT have a gasket to the head - they are a metal-to-metal connection - the aftermarket gaskets are to help with any warpage.

demicon

I have the factory doughnuts on my car. Had them removed as I was replacing a bolt to solve a leak between the manifold and the head... the bolt was missing a head. The doughnuts don't leak. However, it is a bit of a pain to get them seated properly. Iron just doesn't have much give. :P

If they are not in there straight they will leak like crazy.

Yes it is very important to ensure you tighten both bolts evenly, otherwise, you will end up with the badly seated doughnut again.

It sucks doing this in the cold, nothing seems to fit right or thread properly. Cold hands become very useless, very fast. I did mine in the beautiful, warm summer. Had the car on ramps and off I went.

Do you happen to have any friends or relatives with a home garage you can borrow for a couple hours? Just so your not in the cold.

Hope it works out for you.

:lala:

camaro350man

I would have gotten headers already but they have not yet made any for the 2.8 with the air pump or I would have them already. I will try screwing with the stupid things Saturday seeing that I have to work all week. I will try to refit it and resnug it. Did you put any type of sealent on it? I didn't do that, could that be the problem? What do I use? Thanks

KED85

Nothing is to be used in the doughnut area.
The iron ring seats perfectly in the exhaust manifolds.
The tapered edge of the soft material molds perfectly to the factory "Y" pipe.
PROBLEM BEING IS THAT sounds like even the clamping action may be very worn by now, too.
You MAY end up needing a better "Y" pipe by now.
I DO STRONGLY SUGGEST ya seekout another exhaust shop, take car to them & let them at it.
IT SOUNDS LIKE you have the right parts, not the correct clamping action to tighten seal properly OR ELSE somewhere else is a real problem.
Did you obtain new exhaust bolts, too?
Are you using the coil springs on the exhaust tightening bolts, too?
No true reason to jump to the headers, yet.

demicon

Another thought, have you cleaned out the area where the doughnut makes contact, both on the Y pipe and on the manifold?

Removes debris that could cause you not to have a sealed connection?

Just another thought.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Exhaust bolts can be bought at parts houses. IIRC they are M10 X 1.5 or close to it, and they come in packs of 3. When you get the y-pipe (hope ya got some money saved-it's $150!) get new bolts, and get the iron donuts. Tighten the bolts as tight as you can to seal the donuts up good. A new cat won't bite your wallet as hard as the y-pipe will--a direct bolt in is $65.

camaro350man

Coil springs? I was told my car does not need them and it didn't come with them The bolts seem to continue to loosen, any advice there? I will try to jiggle them and kinda work them in and tighten again and see what happens. If not what can i exhuast shop possibly do? Custom make something there maybe? The Y pipe is in great shape too. Any help would be great. I will try to work on it soon i hope, but all this snow is not helping Thanks again guys, big help.

camaro350man

New cat on there, about 6 months old Passed emissions with flying colors

Doward

Either use steel lock nuts, or double nut them with jam nuts! (that's what I did! )

KED85

On my 1985 Blazer, the bolts go thru coiled springs, for retaining the "Y" pipe to manifold ends.
I do not recall how it was/is on my Firebird but feel/believe it's same idea.

camaro350man

No coil springs on the firebird. Its hard to get two bolts on them. Studs are not long enough. I was just going to put two bolts on them. Not enough room for much more The mating surface were pretty clean when I put them in. I'll look into it a bit more tomorrow night and see if I can establish were it is leak. I won't be able to work on it until sat. night. We are getting so much snow here Would to much back pressure make them not seal? I was thinking bring it to an exhuast place and see what they would say LOL. Just don't want to have to climb under there again

KED85

HELL YEAH GET ANOTHER OPINION
Why lie in the snow?
Where's the glory?
PS DID these new gaskets leak IMMEDIATLY UPON ENGINE START OR a short time after?
IF Immediatly, they weren't seated right.
IF shortly after engine start up, there's a problem somewhere....

camaro350man

Leak right upon start up. So that means that are not seated correctly . I try it again Saturday night and see what happens, just sick of this crap LOL. Those of you that have he cast iron ones, do yours seal awesome or do they leak a little bit? How hard was it to get them to sit. Thanks for all the help

TomP

It's so strange... I've had my car since 1994, have over 277,000 miles, and never had a problem with those cast iron donuts. Only problem I had was when the passenger side nuts kept loosening; turns out they were rusted away to nuthin- a new set of nuts fixed the problem (thanks Dad!) and it never came back.

So try buying new nuts for those y-pipe-to-manifold flanges. Try to get as high of a strength as ya can... go for 10.9 but I wouldn't go lower than 8.8. (10.9 metric = grade 8 standard, 8.8 metric = grade 5 standard). The strength will be stamped into the edge of the nut.

I don't know the size off hand, you'll probably have to take one of the nuts off, get a ride to a parts store, and try to match it up by spinning the old nut onto a new METRIC bolt...

Another thought... is your y-pipe "pinned" at the back, or does it move a bit? Unbolt the catalytic convertor from the hanger at the back of the transmission. Then the whole y-pipe can "pivot" on the manifolds, and the donuts should center themselves. Then you could bolt the cat back up to the hanger.

And hey, we do all have studs sticking out of the manifold, right? Some people are talking about "tighten the nuts" and some are saying "tighten the bolts"... I thought all the v6's just had studs and nuts. (Sounds like a wild bachelorette party!)

camaro350man

Thanks man. The only problem is that the car is welded to the Y pipe . Can i still shake them into place? I will take them out and double check everything and then do what ya said. The other problem is the exhuast shop screwed up and welded a smaller stud in it. So only one nut will fit on it. PITA Not even a lock washer. I tighten the crap out of it though. They need to make headers for my car

KED85

The factory ones seat so snug & correctly.
Last time I touched mine was in 2000 when I created the 2.8->3.4 long block swap boogie.
Used new doughuts from GM, the right solution
You've been dumped on big time by previous work.
You better take it to a shop & have then have at it.
Bring all the "right parts, too".
Reason a shop? angle & right tools.
Just pay to have it fixed right.

The other shop was ready to make you a new "Y" pipe to solve problem, in end, I'll bet, along with some "home brewed BS".
Find another shop, get it towed, cause your pipe may fall while driving to muffler place, oh joy!
BUT only you know that answer....

camaro350man

Car drives fine, no way the pipe is falling off I'll just crank the crap out of them and see what happens ya know. It should be good if I can get them to stop leaking I got them from Advanced Auto Parts. They order them from GM. So i have the correct parts. Hopefully pacesetters will com eout with something soon

camaro350man

Anyone heard from them yet?

KED85

I personaly haven't had time lately.
Been still trying to catch up on 2004!
I'll send an email in AM...
Find another shop for help. You've earned it!!!!!