I finally got them in and plan on doing them next week however I have some questions to ask because i don't want to screw anything up. As far as the intake gasket, I'm going to get the $30 napa kit they sell for it so I know it fits good. Good choice? Don't mind spending the extra money to do the job once. The next thing is, when i have the upper intake off anything i should do? The other tricky part was when i took the injectors out of the junk yard firebird. I had everything disconnected and I had to pry up the fuel rail and they came up with it. Now when I put them in, do I pry open the one on my car like i said by lifting the rail and injectors with it? When I put them in, do I attach the injecotors to the fuel rail and put them in, or just the opposit? Any advice on this or tricks would be great. Also while I'm doing this should I throw in a new T-stat? And what temp? I have cold winters and hott summers. Thanks

 

Personally, I don't particularly like NAPA gaskets because they are so damn thin. Take a look at their water pump gasket for an example... I have another one from a different store and it's twice as thick. Go to a different store and get a Fel-Pro gasket set, MS93020 part number. Same price, better gaskets.

When you are under there, it would be a good time to throw in a new thermostat if you are going to. Stock 195* should do fine. You don't necessarily need a thermostat gasket. The Fel-Pro gasket kit comes with a tube of RTV Black.. use that on the thermostat housing. It's also a good idea if you do a coolant flush at this time and put fresh coolant in.

The injectors are held on the rail by clips-that's why you have to pry up on the rail. You also need a set of injector o-rings (can get them at NAPA for $1.19 an injector-don't remember the part numbers). The most important thing to remember with the o-rings is to coat them with clean engine oil before installing them. The oil lubes them to make installation easier, and then it soaks into the rubber and makes the rubber expand to fill out the bores.

 

Thanks man,

Who carries that gasket that you are talking about? Advanced? I'll stick with the stock thermostate. So when I put the injectors back in, i attach them to the fuel rail and then carefully place them in the holes? How do I know they are in there good? Confused on that part. Thanks

 

Ya i got my felpro kit from advanced not too long ago, under 30 bux.

 

yo uwon't need the injector retaining clips, the bolts tha thold teh fuelblock in place will be plenty.

Yeah, attach to fuel block then firmly seat them in lower manifold. how to tell tehy're in??.... it won't move any more. the oil will make that step easy to determine.

 

Gently firmly wiggle insert.
They go in "easy". IF they are fighting you, check out what is wrong.
ALSO
IMPORTANT
DO NOT LET A THING INTO THE FUEL RAIL AT ALL!!!
IF ya do, guess where it lands.
Clean spray all surfaces before ya disassemble.
OR the best ya can,
cleaniness is your best friend.
They do make a special oil for those rubber o rings. Ask at parts counter.
AND all those wires & clips?
They all literally fall back into place. Start with the easiest wire clip to place on a sensor & work forward.
WHILE AT IT
CHANGE YOUR Cold start sensor!
Small screw driver is also a best friend, too. Useful on prying clips.
You do have spare set of the clips right?
I mean what happens IF ya loose one during the operation! Like ya gonna drive to the wrecking yard?

 

Thanks man
You mean cold start injector right? I'm doing this in my garage. Now that you mention this i do not have a spare set of clips Am I screwed? Forgot all about those. Can you buy them? SO I attech everything to the fuel rail and carfully slide it into place. Got ya. It shouldn't move much when in place right? The other thing if I remember right is when you unscrew the cold start fuel line you have to bend it a little bit to get it out of the way? I did that on the yard car. Any way around that? I don't want to break it. Thanks for all the help

 

You should have also obtained a cold injector to get cleaned. As in oh why not...BUT it'll be ok. The sensor I speak about is next to that cold injector. I have to replace mine now & wish I had done so during the 3.4 swap boogie! Do the thermostat now also.
Yeah the end result is not much movement at all.
Spare clips are a very good thing to have on hand!
I know of no other way to "get them" besides a wrecking yard. Score a spare cold injector, too.
Aged lines & such on cars demand gentle persuassion. Not much of a way around it.
BE Prepared for vacuum hose problems, too.
5/16" windshield wiper hose will become you best friend!

 

Another tip:

DO NOT LOSE THE O-RING ON THE COLD START INJECTOR PIPE!

I have long since lost my stock one and can't find one the proper size anywhere. So, I went down to NAPA (closest place) and got myself FOUR (that's right, 4) o-rings that will fit around the CSI pipe. Any number less, and the pipe wouldn't seal. Can anyone say "Not a good thing" ?

 

Thanks,
The o-ring that you are talking about, does that go where the cold start line connects to the fuel rail? I'll have to find that sensor. So I will get that, and a t-stat. The other question is, why would I need to clean the cold start injector? It only works for a short pd of time when you first start the motor right? What exactly does the sensor do? What vaccume hose will break? I have bought all new hose already and changed mostly all the lines. How do you suggest moving all the injector wires and esp the cold start fuel line. I;m afraid to bend it and screw it up. Should I connect it have I have the fuel rail in place? Thanks again. Sorry for all the questions.

 

I recall doing the wire clips then the fuel rail assembly.
Why do you want to install a LEAKING cold start injector? OR at yard look for cleanest engine or car. Score that Cold start injector. Cheap insurance! Go get it checked, cleaned for the few bucks. The sensor ya buy new as do thermostat.
Everything else is gentle and just watch what ya do.
AND
Once ya get going & take your time you'll do well!
Plan for a calm observation mission befoe ya start to remove anything.
CAUSE IN END, It's supposed to look like what ya started with! And perform hopefully better. Any vaccum plastic conection will break on ya. It's aged plastic almost 20 years old & under heat. Look as an example of abuse your manifolds. They also can crack after extreme heat/cooling cycling.

 

I went online and went to advanced to get the gasket that needs to be put on the intake manifold. I can not find one. I even looked up the part number that someone gave me. Whats the name of the gasket that I should be looking for and the cold start injector sensor name? Not sure what to search for? I got the T-state and I'm going to put in a 180 instead of 195. Should keep temps down a bit. As far as that cold start injector, I didn't send one out and I plan on just keeping the cold start one orginal. Is it the same as the other injectors? The six of them I hope will be fine. The cold start injector is not used often anyway. Am I right? Thanks guys

 

You're back east & so is Pep Boys.
I got anything I needed from them.
Changing to a 180* won't do much at all.
Your engine condition really controls how hot it runs along with shrouds on your car.

 

Thanks man, Now this 7th injector? What is it, and is it the same as the other ones are? Same type? Could I just buy a new one from advanced and throw that one is there? I don't want it to leak? Let me know because I plan on getting everything I need tomorrow. Also what is the sensor called I can not find one for it? Also the gasket kit, what is it called? Can't find that either, any help would be great. Thanks again

 

When you guys did your injectors did you also change your CSI? Cold start injector and sensor? Thanks

 

I didn't replace my CSI when I replaced my injectors - didn't see a need to. My car always starts right up, so why fix something that isn't broken?

If it ever does go bad, it'll get replaced with a freeze plug

KED, what sensor are you talking about? I've been back there a million times it seems, and recall no sensor next to the CSI... only the plug for the CSI.

 

Can that injector leak? And how much pressure is on it when its running? Same as the other six? I know its a different injector and not sure where to get one or even if I should change it?

 

My car is also running rich making me get horrible gas milage and making the manifolds glow red, cold the CSI have something to do with that? Sorry for all the questions

 

PERHAPS I phrased wrong
The item I speak of is next to thermostat & the cold start injector.
Reason I said replace your cold injector is I have read here several times of problems from them going bad.
In Mass. I am very sure cold start injector is used.
In Florida I am sure it's not!

 

He means it is the switch located next to the coolant temp sensor and thermostat, with an injector-like connector on it... Not sure if mine is discolored or not, but mine has a a blue connector on top. Your car may not have one, not real sure when the cutoff for their use was. I know the 3.1 don't have one, but when the cutoff was on the 2.8, I dunno.

 

Did you guys change your cold start injector when you replaced the others? Thansk guys

 

Believe me when I say I wish I knew of all these details when I did my 3.4 swap boogie. I had it all apart & shoudla done more, then.
Learn.

 

Well i ordered everything i will need, I got the Felpro Gasket set today, part #MS93020. Has everything I will need. I also ordered a 180 thermostate for it. I also got a fuel pressure regulator kit, had to order that to. (Doward) I remember you telling me to get the one for the 350, but they carry a 2.8 one also. Its the part that goes inside the black canister on the fuel rail with the vaccume tube right? They had it listed for the 2.8, maybe something new? Not sure, but I ended up getting it I can not find the cold start injector. Napa, autozone and advanced do not carry it. Can that injector really hurt me if I don't replace it? I don't have time to send it to cruizin performance I'm going to do the injectors next thursday. Any advice on this? Thanks guys

 

I wouldn't worry about the cold start injector going bad, most of the V6's don't seem to ever get starting problems in the cold like I've seen V8's do from time to time...

I have the 3.1 also, and it starts right up no matter where it is or what temperature it is. If it's REALLY cold the chip idles it high for a bit longer than usual, but that's about it.

 

You need special screwdrivers for the FRP.
DEFINETLY replace the cold SENSOR. Mine is bad & wish I had done it when I did my swap. As I have to do so now. Have those extra clips yet?

 

Yes I got the extra clips in. So I should not worry about the CSI. I'm just worried that it will not hold pressure and leak making the car run like crap?

 

IF the work is done right and IT IS NOW NOT LEAKING chances are........
Best thoughts!

 

I haven't done the injectors so I do not know if its leaking all not. I did not send that one out to be cleaned I forgot though. Just don't want it to leak on me Everything else besides that will be new. What do you guys think?

 

I think you should get to work and let us know how well you did!

 

But should i replace the CSI or no? Cuz I will order it from GM.

 

Why not go to the yard & slip a few into your pocket and send them out for cleaning?

 

I have one week off from work so i want to do everything this week. I won't have a week off for a while again

 

GM doesn't still have them? They did last I checked. I would highly recommend buying and installing the correct o-ring...apparently, one of the mechanics who worked on Redraif's car in the past did the exact same thing (well, he used two thinner o-rings in place of the 1 he couldn't find), and two years later it sprayed high pressure gasoline all over her engine compartment! It caught fire instantly when it hit the exhaust, and if she hadn't bought a fire extinguisher a week before the car would have burned to the ground! As it was, there was just enough chemical in the exinguisher to put out the fire.

 

Well, I have 4 of them on there. Three didn't do it. Two of them are smaller diameter and two are of a larger diameter. And at this point, I am not even sure I still need a CSI after all, that it was the bad IAC driver in my other ECM that was causing me grief. Now, if I could figure out what to do about the ignition module, I'd be all set...

 

IF you are having ICM problems your source of problem could very well be bad alternator.
I had a primo replacement and eventualy it went bad, giving high energy voltage spikes shorting out my modular. Like 6 of them in a very short period of time. Driving me crazy.
I swapped alternators (free lifetime warranty & it's a Ford parts rebuilt unit!) & never a problem since.

 

New alt last August. Had problem before then. Alt has lifetime warranty, if I want to go to Pennsylvania to honor it (got stuck in PA that time and the friggin place the car was towed to cost me $450 to put in a new one!), and works fine right now--with about 14.7 VDC at battery with the engine running at 2000 RPM--with my stereo system on. I think the problem is that the ICM is a Wells POS rebuilt unit... As soon as I can get the money scraped up, I'm going to my local GM dealer and ordering an ACDelco unit.

 

ICMs
I had
Wells
Niehoff
AC Delco (WITH MADE IN CHINA CAST INTO THE PLASTIC BODY)
Borg Warner
And then times my list twice.
Any brand no difference.
It ended up being the alternator giving out intermitant high energy voltage spikes killing the ICMs.
The Alternator performed properly, but that was the problem for me, the alternator was killing the ICMs.

 

Well, I had the problem before I replaced the FIRST alternator. I'm on the second replacement now (the first one replaced was the stock 85A factory alt with a broken front housing), and if this one kills the new AC/D ICM, it's going back to PA if I have to walk to get it there...

BTW, how do I test for these voltage spikes?

 

IN my example my front pulley went in & out.
I put the two & two together and after I swapped alternators the problem was solved.
I assume by interanlly shorting (when the pulley wasn't in proper postion), I was gettting a spike in energy & that fried my ICM's.
PS our V6 alternators are atleast 105 amp.

 

GM won't have it... it's discontinued.

I couldn't find the O-ring either. It's a bastard size; I have the specs at home somewhere- nothing lines up. I found that two o-rings stacked "might" do it, but I didn't trust it; I re-used the old o-ring and so far so good. One day I'll put a 3.1 fuel rail into the car and just leave the cold start injector off altogether- just to see what happens.

Glad to hear you finally got the injectors!!

Before you remove anything, get an air compressor (even a small portable cigarette-lighter one used to inflate rafts or tires) and use it to blow any dirt away from your fuel rail. You could even use a handheld bicycle pump (I guess) or a $5 "computer cleaner" can of compressed air.

You could've just bought a roll of thin (1/16th inch) gasket material, an X-acto blade knife, and cut your own intake gaskets. You just need the upper-to-lower plenum. Leave the TB bolted to the upper plenum so you don't ruin that gasket. The original gaskets will be hardened so you can carefully pull one off and use it as a template to make the new ones. (Both the left gasket and the right gasket are the same cut.)

After the upper plenum's off, put rags over the open ends of your lower plenum... like KED85 said, you don't want anything falling in there.

Try not to bend the cold start injector tube too much; it's tricky to re-install because the metal line doesn't let you thread the fitting on "square", so the less you bend that metal line, the less of a chance you'll crossthread it when you reinstall it.

Also, leave the fuel hoses and metal fuel lines connected!! Don't unhook ANY of the fuel hoses - it keeps things simple! There are two clips that hold the metal fuel lines to the engine; remove those two clips (held on by 10mm screws). Then remove the upper plenum. When you pry the fuel rail up, the whole assembly will swing out (because of the hoses) and you can work on the rail right "over" the hood latch area.

Two 13mm's hold the rail to the intake manifold. When they're out, and all metal-fuel-line-to-engine clips are removed, you'll need to put a prybar between the rail and the intake manifold b/c the old o-rings will be GLUED in place!

Of course, you can't re-use the old o-rings. They'll cause vacuum leaks.

Make sure all pieces of o-rings or cracked pintle caps are removed from the intake manifold.

I've always used regular motor oil on the injector o-rings. Coat the o-rings before you install the injectors into the rail, and before you install the rail into the motor.

The new, motor-oil-coated o-rings won't want to let the fuel rail seat all the way into the intake manifold. Once you wiggle everythign so all 6 line up with their holes, you'll be able to squash it a bit down into the intake manifold. The two 13mm bolts will seat it the rest of the way. Don't overtighten any of teh bolts! Use a torque wrench!! Torque is only around 15-18 ft/lbs.

Once you reconnect the cold start injector feed tube, before installing the upper plenum, turn the ignition key to ON (but don't start the motor!!!!!!) so the fuel system pressurizes, and make sure you don't have any leaks. Then you can put the rest back together.

 

Thanks man, I have everything ripped apart I'm going to reuse the old CSI. Its all ripped down to the heads, figured I'd clean that sucker out. Now when I put the valve covers back on do i put RTV on the gasket where it mates on the valve cover and on the part where it meets the head or just on the valve cover? And how long should it sit for? Thanks guys

 

For me I like things to cure overnight.
One daytime heat cycle then even cool cycle & back to warm air seems to work well.
What ya use on valve cover gaskets is almost a mystery due to leaks on covers suck! I almost never get that part as good as I'd like to.
Glad ya moving forward successfully.
Remember NO DIRT in the fuel rail.

 

Use a spraycan brake cleaner to remove all residual oil film from the mating edges of both the valve cover's sealing surface and where it meets the head. (Spray the cleaner on a rag, then wipe down the sealing surface of the head.) Personally I'd lay the bead down on the valve cover itself. Remember around bolt holes to go "between" the valve cover "area" and the bolt hole. Don't follow the "outer" track, otherwise you'll get a leak from your valve cover screws.

I forget torque spec but I think it's under 10 ft/lbs for those valve cover screws/bolts/nuts/whatever.

 

Thanks guys
Well they are finally in The sad thing is that I notice no difference with the old injectors and the new one I put in! Car still lacos power. If your in fourth gear and you floor it. You can't even tell. If your in 3rd gear and you floor it, still can't really feel it unless high high rpm. When the motor is cold it fly but once its at normal temp forget it. The manifolds still glow also. No flippin clue anymore guys

 

 

Could I have an internal problem here? What should I do next?

 

I'm stumped for ya.....

 

Burnt valves maybe? I have no clue. I don't burn oil though

 

Did you ever straighten out your plug wire problem?

 

I put new accel plug wires in. My alternator was shot also. It had a diode problem whatever that means. Haven't had a chance to replace yet though.