ok i hope this is the right place.. but i was just wondering what kind of things i could do to my car just to give me more off the line.. im not intrested in running the track (at least not yet). right now im just trying to get my car to look nice and wouldnt mind taking a challenge if offered. but alls i got right now is a 3.1. so is there anything i can do so that if im ever sitting front in line at the light i have somthing to offer?

oh yeah im also not too intrested in a different engine.. haha

anways thanks.

edit: also not concerned with top speed, i couldnt care less given im never gonna go that fast.. just want acceleration

 

Get 6.50 gears then.

 

There are a lot of things you can do to your car to help it launch better. Some of them are better suited for track cars because the can and sometimes will compromise the overall handleing of the car on the road. This can be dangerous.

To get the best launch with the motor you have you can do some of the following to promote weight trasnfer and sqaut.

The following are meant for track conditions only as running this set-up on the street can be extremely dangerous

Increase front tire pressure
Decrease rear tire pressure
Install drag launch springs into the rear
Run drag radials


The following are suspension mods that can help you at the track and on the street

Aftermarket lower control arms
Lower control arm relocation brackets
Adjustable shocks (with drag and street settings)
Aftermarket toque arm
Torque conver or clutch (A4 vs T5)
Higher rear gear ratio with some form of posi/limited slip

After than you need to learn how to properly launch a vehicle. To discover the best launch technique for your combo you need to run your car down the track varying your launching style. Observe your 60' times and you will dial in the best method.

This is just a simple outline. A would do a few searches in the drivetrain and suspension boards to read up on the topics I just mentioned.

 

sweet. thanks man. ill search

 

Make sure you ignore un-helpful info like this though. He is not building a farm tractor.

 

lol thanks shifty. now while we are on the topic. it seems like the most reasonable thing to do might be to change gears. could you point me in the right direction on how to go about that? i mean i know nothing about it. hopefully theirs a thread but i dont know what to search for either. mainly im just looking for bigger or smaller which one is quicker. or does that depend on what gears?? lol like i said i dont know what im talking about so any help is greatly appreciated!! thanks!

 

Now i dont know nearly as much as shifty or alotta other people when it comes to gearing, but here is my advice...

i checked and it turns out your car has 3.23 gears in it from the factory. You could easily get 3.73 gears and maybe even pull off some 4.10's. Obviously your gas mileage will suffer slightly, more so with the 4.10's, but they should both get you goin pretty good.

 

now this is the rear end gear we are talking about correct?? so it looks as if the bigger number the better..

 

yea we're talking about the rear end.

And its all relative as to what is best... the higher the number is (4.10, 4.88, etc), the faster the car will accelerate, but its top speed will be lower, and wont get as good gas mileage. Generally, cars with gearing in the 4's tend to either be 1/4 mile cars or 90hp econoboxes that need the high gearing to get going.

The lower the number (2.73, 2.77, 3.08), it won't accelerate as fast, but will have a higher top speed and will get better gas mileage. Most of the v8s that came in the f-bodies towards the end of the 3rd generation had 2.73's and 2.77's...i have 2.73s

 

ok so can i get by with JUST replacing the gear? or should i be doing other mods so everthing holds up good?

as for gas millage, any idea on how bad it effects it? i mean with the 4.10. because my car is infact a daily driver. i get about 20 mpg currently.

i was looking at the kit from thunder racing for $400

i dunno that 4.10 is pretty appealing

 

Well I've never experienced a gear swap myself, but i would imagine the difference in launching between a 3.23 and 4.10 would be pretty significant.

Better gears should definately be a priority for you and your goal (thats IMHO of course), but you should definately do other things besides that. Shifty will definately chime in and tell you what they'd be.

If you JUST change the gears you really need any 'supporting mods', however like i said, it's probably a good idea to get some mods that will further enhance your launches.

 

do you have a posi rear?

if not deffinately get a new posi unit and at least 3.73 gears. you will have fun with that.

but most important, off the line acceleration deals with traction. if you cant hook up, you wont accelerate the way you should. more power wont help if you cant keep it on the ground.

so your gonna need to work on the suspension, and tires/wheels. some good rubber and bolt on suspension stuff will help. lower control arms with brackets, springs/shocks, maybe a torque arm. all that will help. front sway bar delete to allow the car to twist of the line.

another good thing to do is get that auto a new converter. something abit better than factory stall. like 2500rpm-2800rpms. that will help you get into the power band faster. and with this, you can brake stall it up to 2500 rpms and launch from there. that greatly improves your off the line speed and thus gives you greater acceleration

 

if u want your engine to wind up REALLT fast get 4.10 gears.....and if u want fast winding gears but give u some more highway driving 3.73s ...
but it seems like all u want is acceleration....so i suggest 4.10s i dont honestly think ur guna need all those traction devices....cause i doubt u have a hard time grabbing traction NO OFFENSE..

 

a stall converter too i guess.....maybe some nice sticky tires out back. and get rid of some of the extra weight....take out your spare tire...

 

get a posi. i cut 2.28 sixties so its not a super slouch

 

For an auto I wouldn't suggest anything more than a 3.73 gear, being that it's a daily driver.

 

You need to pick a gear ratio that fits the power profile of your motor. You can go too big when selecting gears. For a V6 street car I would not go with 4.10’s. You will be out of your powerband too fast. Higher ratios don’t always mean faster acceleration. It has to be matched to the motor and transmission to be faster. 4.10’s in any car without a huge OD isn’t really practical. The only cars you see that can really get away with them are LS1 and LT1 cars with the T56. They have two overdrives which keep their RPM’s down. You don’t have that with the 700R4 or with the T5 for that matter. Their engines also have a wider powerband and will make power up to and past 6000rpm. Therefore the extra rpm that the gears keep their motor in is beneficial. The reason why you see TPI and TBI cars with 2.73, 3.08, 3.23 and 3.42 ratios is because those motors make peak power way below 5000rpm. There is no need for a steeper gear that will take them out of their powerband so fast. You would have to short shift too frequently through every gear if you ran 4.10’s. Those gears would drop you into your next gear at a higher rpm than you want to be. That is why you see some people go faster in the quarter mile by shifting 500rpm or so past peak power. There are plenty of TBI and TPI cars that ran faster by shifting at 4,800 rather than 5,500 rpm. I would check out the V6 board and see what gears are best for that motor.

 

3.73s posi baby thats what i got best thing ever

 

the fastest n/a v6 on this site is am's camaro and he has 3.73's but he also has a heavy modded 3.1. I think 3.42 would be the highest ratio gear u should get. 3.73 on a stock v6 would probaly hurt more than help.

 

So your going for torque.

Engine mods.
Crank pully, if you dont plan on running a large stereo system.
Lengthen your intake runners (hard to do).
Make sure the car is in tune, proper timming.
Change the air intake setup.
Exhaust.

I would suggest 3.42 or 3.73 gears.



How much mechanical abilitys do you have? Acess to tools, etc.

 

well it looks like you guys convinced me to go with 3.73.

honestly.. i dont know if i have a posi rear... how do i tell?

i was also thinking of swaping to manual somewhere down the line too.. i dont know how much of an effect that has.

so yeah.. torque sounds good Dale. cept my "abilites" you asked about haha cant say i have much but i think i have some connections. what would you consider for air intake? this was also something i was highly considering

>and what about this crank pulley stuff?

 

ok how bout.....
intake sys
exhaust (cat and muffler)
ignition (better wires and coil)
crank pulley


4.10 gears (with the tires it'd be more like 3.73)
275/60/15 rear tires
sub frame connoectors.....WELD IN (bolt ins suck)
torque arm
rear control arms
stiffer springs ( heavy duty v8's or drag springs)
posi (should be first for susp up-grades)
lower front 2"
205/60/15 or 195/60/15 front tires
shift kit and stall converter

 

asp-541800 is the part number for the asp underdrive crank pulley he is talking about, as for the air intake if u have a dual snorkle intake already then keep that one caz it is the best and only camaros can use them. If u dont have a dual snorkle intake then u can make one like i did.

My custom cold air intake

 

oh yeah and the tb by-pass.


I have a carb so I am just mostly guessing on the fi stuff ( and goin by a mustang build up I did for a buddy)

 

ok, since you admit your not mr mechanic, that helps us. First off, you admit it Next we know that basically, a cam swap is kinda "out of question" maybe.

Crank pully is not hard at all, above info is correct.

Air intake, since yours is a 91 like mine, find an older 2.8 dual air intake system, remove the air deflectors, and mount it. Very easy, just getting harder to find. Will have to extend 2 wires, not rocket sience really.

My dynomax catback, is bolt in install if you have some ramps to lift the car in the air. Did myself, but would have been alot nice with someone else.

Ignition is good, clean burning, but wont exactly give you seat of pants power.

3.73 gears, I'm even affraid to put mine in, so you will prob need this hired done.

Posi, 99% odds you dont have it. Wont net you power, but will aid in putting whatever power to the ground. Be warned, its harder to brake loose, but once your broke loose, its more then a hand full. Esp in rain.

Subframes are not power gains, but will keep the car in good shape, body flex, etc. Most people say this is a MUST for any camaro, and should be your first mod.

Look at my site below, the www button, I have almost every mod listed. And if you need pics of anything, just ask. I love taking pics.

 

ok so ive gathered a list of what everyone suggested and grouped the best of my knowledge (lol that says a lot) in order of priority:

must's=
3.73 gears
posi rear end
sub frame connectors weld in
underdrive crank pulley -asp-541800
dual snorkel intake

cans's=
torque converter*
shift kit*
LCAs w/relocation brackets
springs/shocks
torque arm
front sway bar delete
stall converter
tb bypass

probalby sloppy due to the fact i dont know the importance of most of the things on here

*would nevermind if swaping to manual 5 speed.

seperated "must's" from "can's" do to the cost of everything i know is going to be expensive... id work on the "must's" first before moving onto the "can's"

let me know what you think and how you might rearrage the list.

by the way guys thats for all the help bearing with a guy who knows nothing!! but you gotta start somewhere right? anyway its greatly appreciated!

 

tb bypass can go to "must", its quite simple to do. If you know how to change a hose, you can do it.

IMO I would remove the front swaybar from the list. Since its daily driver, you want that. Now, when you go to track to race it, dx both ends of it from the control arms.

 

yeah dump the sway bars and go for a ride....you prolly get see sick from the body roll

 

yeah dump the sway bars and go for a ride....you prolly get see sick from the body roll. mine didn't have a rear bar from factory bein an 84 and all.

 

not sure if i would do the throttle body bypass since you live in michigan (same here). i dont know of anyone whos done it in colder climates, but supposedly, it can cause problems w/ the t/b freezing or something.
subframe connectors are probably the first thing id do. these cars are so weak, even my tired old 2.8 cracked the paint on my car.

where in michigan are you btw?

 

yeah I should know my bird didn't just crack the paint......I had a4 inch tear on the drivers side.....I do have a sunroof too so.......soon as it's on the road again I'm gettin connector so I don't re tweek it.

 

i would move the swaybar removal to the musts too, it is not a good drive with it off though. what ever you do, don't lower the front or raise the rear. i just had a big traction issue at the track cause i had the rear raised 3" when i lowered it back down to stock, i had better and faster launches. what ever you do, don't mess with the way the car sits from factory unless you drop the rear. i still spin off the line, but nowhere near like i did with the rear end lifted. weight transfer is what helps you keep traction.

if i were you i would email AM91camaro and ask him about any suspension questions you may have. he is the one that helped me out with my traction issues, eithor him and no matter how much i don't like him, RFTC. BOTH know their stuff when it comes to the suspensions of theese cars. though RFTC's specialty is the road racing setups on theese cars.

 

wait did you just say lower ONLY rear???? I thought it was lower front? I did front and it handled better then the carb s**t so I didn't get to do ny launches.....

 

wow guys you've all been EXTREMELY helpful and i thank you very very very very much

so i'll keep the swaybar..
as far as the tb bypass.. hmm i dunnoo. i live in lapeer and it can get darn cold...

 

you might actually be better off keeping the auto...you can get a shift kit installed to give you a nice hard shift, and you can manually shift with your auto to get some more "juice" out of the kit/gears, where as the manual will not take off the "line" as quick, and that appears to be what you're looking for...IMO, i would rather have lower gears and a shift kit than a manual

 

yes i did say that, when i raised the rear(same thing as lowering the front) the car was running 2.6x 60' times when i brought it back to stock, that dropped down to 2.45 60' times. i am still spinning a little bit but not unless i gun it while dropping the clutch. the car felt better when the rear was up in the air, but it was slower. when i get the clutch fixed i plan on bringing the front of the car down cause after i had the rear up then brought it back to stock, the front is sitting higher than the rear by almost 2 inches. so i am gonna put a set of clamps on the front and bring it down to the same height.

 

RTFC specilizes in drag suspension setups also

The only thing I can say is its a V6 car with under 200 rwhp. If you have traction problems then put a damn posi unit in the rear and buy some "non-budget) tires with a decent low treadwear and you will in no way in hell have a launch problem in a (again ) 200hp max V6 Camaro. Don't srcew with the swaybar- you aren't even close to the parkinglot of the ballpark to worry about that issue.

 

With the thought of the above info I posted, Lets have a trival question.

Can anyone here giving advice please explain what the need for removing a front swaybar would be? Please be specific as to what the chassis is doing and how the swaybar is affecting the launch and why is it caused when its a problem

If you can not answer this,please do me and everyone else asking advice here on these boards a big favor and do not give any answers to any future questions unless you are experienced as to what you are saying. Most of you I am willing to bet have no clue when you suggest the swaybar removal.

 

k, then with that said, sorry, i was wrong, dean knows drag suspensions as well.

i do have a posi ordered, and well for the tires, i plan on getting a better pair when theese wear out. i was in a bind for money when i got them, and the set of 4 ran me like 300. i will prolly get a good set of slicks for the track and another cheap pair for driving.

dean i wish you could drive my car at the track, jsut to see what i am talking about with the traction.

 

I was under the impression that it helps on weight transfer. As does putting softer springs, and "dead struts" up front.


Now as to "why", I dont know. As the softer springs make no sense to me, but dead struts do.

I am going to guess (read, only guess) as to it could possibly "bind" the front suspension keeping it lower/full travel, Or the body twisting.

Again, only guess. I've never drag raced, and only read up on tips of what to do, or suggesions.

 

If you are trying to launch a manual trans V6, chances are very high that youare dumping the clutch way too high rpms with an open diff.

The problem with trying to launch a V6 (and why one should not be used for drag racing) is that it is not a very high torque motor at all. So consequently it is either going to spin and break traction or it is going to catch and bogg. I am willing to bet most of you think that if you get traction the car will hook and the rpms will stay up there- it will not.

So the next time I here this "if only I could get tration with my V6" please spare us. I have a strong feeling that my car is faster than 98% of you the two guys making the 2% know who they are and I am no way in hell even close to having a traction problem even in the rain.

 

dean from playing with this car on the track, i did find that there is no sweet spot in theese cars as you said. you eithor catch or bog. i have gotten over this, and just decided to try and limit the spinning for now til i get the rest of the engine done.

i got it down to the point where if i let the rpm drop 100 from my launch rpm, it bogs, 100 raise and i sit on the line and spin for a good 2 seconds before the car moves.

 

answer to the swaybar question is it boils down to engine torque and frame twist as a relation to massive power that will lift one of the rear wheels and cause a loss of traction- we do not and never will have this problem in a 60*V6 naturally asperated.

 

If you want to change your ratio easily & fairly cheap, go buy a set of very low profile tires.
That will "change" your rear ratio to a "lower number" by altering the tire height.
That will also increase your "off the line response"
Changing gears in rear can cost ya ups to $500 easily! That cost MAY NOT include the gears!

Upgrading the tranny to handle the "abuse of hard launches" will also assist ya in your goal of quicker off line action.

After accomplishing those two upgrades you may feel need for more speed and that need can be added elsewhere (exhaust & ignition mods are some of those ideas).
Your total cost for all these other mods may then finally cost about same as an axle gear change set up. Yet you'll already be going faster off line & have a better performing engine, too!
Increase performance as a package, not one specific part or area.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 87TPI350KID
Get 6.50 gears then.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Make sure you ignore un-helpful info like this though. He is not building a farm tractor.
==============================================

Way to funny! ^

 

point you could do that with the tires but what run 215/50/15? but then way a mile of wheel well unless ya lower it....that would look goofy. if ya have 16's what do ya do.....lol. I mean yes that does work but you are more limited in that aspect. get it up real high with a set of 195/50/15but then ya got less contact and end up with less traction.....I mean those are fwd tires.


the cheapest and easiest way to do it would be to get a junk yard 4th gen posi rear from like a trans am or z28. it should have higher gears by a lil and a posi.

 

I totally agree with ya.
I'm only tossing out some ways to accomplish something without too much investment, so that chunk of change could be spread out for other items as I mentioned.
Replacement wheels anyone?
14" steel wheels clearing GM rear drum brakes fall off trees out here in SoCal. Use that "racing" wheel tire combo for off street racing, cause yep it sure would look dorky!
Out here the 4th Gen rear axles go for about $100-$500 I'm sure.
One problem with 4th Gen rears,
Brake cable issues.
And they are slightly wider, than 3rd Gen axle set ups. Yet that last detail?
Upgrade to the 4th Gen wheels!

 

opps......yer right......I don't want 16s though then I can't run 275/60s........I love big fat ugly tires.......rides like a tank. that big a tire I should run 4.56 gears to make a 3.73.

ya know ifin he does up the heads changes the camand rockers ports the intake and ups the ignition....he could put headers with glasspacks and turndowns....that'd be cool........lol