OK, every sensor has been changed (except the MAF, that's next week with the brakes), PCV and EGR changed as well. The car runs smoother, better acceleration and shifts better. Thing is, like before, everytime I fix something the problems go away and then slowly come back. The dieseling and irratic idle are almost gone. Sometime it'll idel low at 500 rpm, but will do it the whole time I'm driving until I shut it down. Sometimes it idles high at 1,500 rpm, again the whole time driving until shut down. The rest of the time it idles like it should around 700 rpm. At low to normal idle, at take off from a dead stop, while getting on the throttle, and it dosen't matter if I'm light or hard on the gas, it sounds like it's choking, and stumbles real quick but the revs jump about 300 rpm and the car goes and shifts fine. Can punch it and it down shifts fine for a passing gear and scoots along.
When it idles high though, from a dead stop, the car wants to burnout no matter how much or little gas is applied, but by 2,250 rpm the engine starts to stumble an loose power until it's able to get above 3,500 rpm and it clears up, until it shifts to the next gear (rather hard) and stumbles in the lower revs again. But let off the gas and keep it beneath 2,000 rpm and it's smooth, other than getting hot and idling high.
What could be doing this? The IAC, TPS, IAT, PCV valve, EGR valve, EGR solenoid, O2 sensor, thermostat, water temp sensor, air, fuel, and oil filters are all new. The battery was completely disconnected for 3 hours while working on the car to let the computer reboot to the new sensors when reconnected. Did I miss something? The TV cable has a bracket holding it to intake manifold stopping it from being adjusted any further on the engine. Could it need to be replaced? The fuel pump has good pressure and I'm pretty sure if it was the injectors my problems with it running would be worse. So what is causing the awkward idle range and occassional dieseling and bogging down? Some new perspectives would help. Thanks :

 

Any codes? Does the computer respond to the crossed terminal? I would verify that the ecm is good.

 

No codes, an now this is funny..... Depending on your point of view. The speedometer cable was broke, so I replaced it about 6 months ago. Anyway durring the replacement I didn't want to take off the steering wheel to get the cluster out to disconnect the old cable and connect the new one. Tight fit either way, but got it done. Had a hard time putting the cluster back in and it sitting properly. Had my girlfriend help by holding the cluster and moving it when and how I told her. She pinched her finger while the cluster was sliding in, managed to get the speedometer's needle stuck on the steering wheel adjuster, broke the needle off (so much for replacing the cable, and got the electric plastic paper circitry on the back of the cluster to tear on two spots. So now half the idiot lights don't work alon with the gas gauge and battery amp meter. Everything else works fine, dash lights, tach, temp gauge, but I can't get any flash codes from the plug for the computer now. It is a good chance the computer is shot or needs to be flashed or something, but I don't have the time or money to go to a shop to get that all fixed for them to check the computer and possibly need to reprogram it or replace it. Those ain't cheap. Lesson #1, even if you're lucky enough to have a girl like mine, pretty, smart, knows enough about cars to check the oil, do an oil change, and a tune up. Don't let her work on it anyway. Especially if it involves getting their hands into small places where they can get cut, pinched, or break a nail. Because then they no longer worry about the car or what they're doing.

 

rebuild your distrib, and have that damn sensor in it (brain fart on it right now) checked. Or replace that sensor with a ACDELCO unit, none of that aftermarket crap.

 

In both my Camaro and the Cavalier all I use is AC Delco stuff. It's the only thing the cars like. Everything else wears out and breaks to quickly or makes it run like crap. What sensor in the distributor though? I didn't know there was a sensor in the distributer. I thought that was all mechanical being turned by the crank to each firing position and electric through the coil to fire.

 

erratic idle can also be a bad, or faulty vacuum line.
Have you checked and replaced those?

Also, have you done a propper tune up lately? timing in spec? run rough at 10*, move to 12-13* should run like a champ then.
Is the pick up in the distrib dirty? the contacts on the ignition module (4 plug module in distrib) dirty? Is your EGR sticking?

As far as the speedo cable, why not just undo the support at the dash brace? then it can fall just about to the floor. Or remove the dash pad, and do everything from up top?

But as far as the plastic trace panel, you might have pinched, scrached or broken one or more traces, so you will yet again have to remove it (propperly this time please) and look it over.

 

Distributor cap amd rotor are all good. As are the wires and vacum hoses and plugs. Timing is something I wanted to do, but ran out of time with, and also it was so smooth after the second time I started it up after I got done putting it back together, I really didn't think of needing to do the timing. The EGR is new, I'll disconnect and clean the module for the distributor, that should be located under the bottom of the cap near the passenger side correct? The EGR valve and it's controlling solenoid are brand new. Put those on Saturday as well.
Yeah the little trace pieces are gone on the one side of the cluster. I just didn't want to take the whole thing apart. I was being stupid and rushed the job.

 

ICM, thats it. Its on that plate that you screw the cap down on. In fact, that "hump" in the cap, thats cut out for the ICM. Also, it has some coil wound thing going around the shaft.

So you have two elec components in the distrib.

 

Excellent guys thanks for the help. Now I have a few more things to check when I do the brake job and MAF sensor this weekend. Just hope this damn hurricane stays west or south of here so I can get it all done. One last question, though I may already know the answer, other than replacing the ICM, cap, rotor, and wires on the distributor, how do you rebuild one? That's something I've never done before, never needed to either. I know how to adjust them and move them to get the timing right, but not rebuild. Let me know. Thanks again

 

I eneded up replacing mine because some things were bent.

However, a post was made I'm guessing atleast a year, or more ago on here on how to do this. Actually, I'm starting to think 2-3 years

But its like knocking out a roll pin, sanding the shaft, grease or oil something. Replace the copper winding thing. Un-rust everything. Not expensive, just tedious and time consuming.

 

Cool beans. Thanks again for your help. I'm gonna take out the distributor while doing my brakes and make sure everything is clean and reconnected properly and get the timing right this time. If everything looks good on the distributor I'll do the ICM when I do the MAF two weeks later. (All these little problems cost a lot ) I would assume that should end my problems, cause if not this is gonna get ugly fast. I like working on cars, but not this much to be annoyed every other time I drive it. Either way I'll get it fixed. Thanks again for the help and advice

 

The icm can be tested at autozone, or about any decent parts store. Dont let them test it once, have them test it many times back to back, get it warm. Hell, take a heat gun or something and have that blow on it while they are testing

The copper coil thing claims it can be tested with an ohm meter. However, its cheap, id just replace it.

 

Yeah the copper is only $20 or so at AutoZone. That's the only parts store I trust. I know they test sensors but didn't know they could test that. Just gotta wait for payday now, so I can get all I need for the next round of work and maintainence on the old RS. I'll let you know what happens with her once it gets done, looks like between this storm Wilma and my paycheck it's not gonna be until next weekend. I would just take it apart to look, but I'm stubborn and don't like to do something without finishing it. So if I see it needs to be replaced I'll go nuts unitl it's done and I'll spend that time worrying how much that problem might be screwing up something else. I know, silly. But still that's me. Thanks again Dale, you're a Kool Kat.

 

More fun in 2.8 land. Swapped ICM for a new one. Found the cap and rotor were shot. Plugas and wire are all good other than the slight whitish gray look from too much heat, used a wire wheel to clean and reinstalled the plugs. Did timing, found it was already at 14*, tuned it down to 10* where it should be, and found it runs best at about 12*. Tightened it down, got it dialed in. But while tuning it I saw the arc from the cap to the wire and it's an orange with a light blueish white streak in the spark. Shouldn't it be a blue? Does this mean my coil is going and isn't giving enough power out. I run the gold series cap and rotor, got Duralast and A/C Delco parts all over this car. Coil is my best geuss currently. Oh and then this happened. I noticed the car was still running warm after doing everything and I had just recently like two weeks ago, changed the themrostat. But it got just over 220 to 240 and then I would turn on the heater and it would drop down to 180 - 200 degrees. And after running for about 5 minutes it calmed down and got power back as the Computer realized it had all new parts (that I could afford so far). But other than over heating, I still find at times if the idle drops at a stand still in gear under 750, off the line the car has no power. It lopes at idle and diesels like it's stuck in a higher gear and just can't get moving. Now I fell that week spark has a lot to do with this problem. Anyway the car drove great other than getting hot and needing to keep the idle at 1,000. So I get it home after some running around, and not even 3 minutes after I shut it off, BOOM!!!!. There's smoke and stema everywhere. Pop the hood and found my radiator, and the two main water hoses all blew. My geuss is my dad was right that the radiator was clogging up, but I didn't have enough to fix that at the time. And still don't at least for another week. So that'll be fixed soon. But the weak spark, could that cause the irratic idle at times and dieseling off the line at times? With the timing at 12* it runs better, but when the problem occurs it's worse.

 

any sparkplug/wire arc should be white. Not orange, not blue. WHITE.

 

Ok, so white is good. So what does it mean if it's blue? or orange? On my cavalier it's been Blue when it arcs, but has run like a champ for years with little work other than maintainence to keep it going. The Camaro is another story of itself. LOL So does the Orange mean there isn't enough juice in the system from the coil? Does the blue in my Cav mean there's too much or to keep an eye on it as that might be going bad sometime soon? I like to work on cars and fix things, and make it work better and go faster, but this is driving me to the edge. When the car blew the rad cap and hoses, I secretly hoped it would catch on fire or something. I'm getting tired of figuring this car out. The only thing keeping me going (Other than that I can't afford to buy anything newer right now) is that each step I've taken has made the car run better, get a little more power back out of it, better gas mileage, and was still getting me around. I'm going

 

White is the hottest spark. Blue is almost as hot, orange is the least.

 

So there's a good chance this weak as spark is my timing and performance problem then. I mean the spark was orand with a hint of blue like a flame from a lighter. Ok so other than a new Radiator, water hoses, and MAF sensor, I need a coil. I get paid in about a week and a half so I'll be doing this all then. Thanks for your help. I'll either let you know what happens, or just push it / drive it off a pier somewhere if this dosen't at least get rid of some more of my problems. Any further insights are appreciated as I still have some time before I can even afford to get what I need.

 

how do you know the MAF is bad?

 

Well with everyother sensor being shot, and that fact that until it gave me problems I hadn't done anything other than oil changes, and then found the bad sensors looked like they were never touched since it rooled out of the factory, I may as well replace it as well as I've already replaced all the others on this car. Here's what I've done so far.

TPS, IAT, Thermostat, PCV valve, EGR valve, EGR solenoid, vacum lines, IAC, water temperature sensor, alternator, battery, cap and rotor on distributor, ICM, wires, plugs, air oil and fuel filters, new shift cable and adjusted it, new tires, bleed brakes, did timing to 12* (was running better at this setting other than the occassionl off idle, overheating, and dieseling and stumbling off the line). So may as well get a new coil, to get a better spark and power, and change the MAF for bettter readings of air flow and breathability for the engine to maintain.

 

Go find a hypertech or msd coil when you replace it (if you got the cash).

And you can drive it up here and leave it in my yard if you get tired of it. I need a few body parts, and seats.

 

I plan in the MSD but do I need to upgrade the whole ignition system for that or is it just plug it in and go? I've heard stories good and bad about both. The only coils I could find at AutoZone are around $20 for Wells or AC Delco. They're OEM replacements so it should be fine right. I know the MSD is better, but how much $$ we talkin and what else should be changed to really see the difference in performance from it? I'm still working towards my goal of dropping the 3.8 Buick Turbo under the hood. The engine is just about done, but I still need a better tranny to match it. Unless I can come up with the cash to get Dowards 2.8 turbo unit, this engine just needs to run good and get me back and forth with a little bit of power for fun here and there.

Yeah I'll drive up to you, as long as you got a trade, I need a second car as my wife works in one direction and I go the other to get to work. LOL

 

msd coil is about 50 bux, and usually need to upgrade the wires too.

If you plan on swapping engines, dont bother unless the new coil will work on the new engine as well.


You said you were going to push it in the ocean, I wanted to give it a better death, you didnt say anything about trading

 

Don't think you'ld want those seats anyway. Needs some work inside the car too, but that's after I get it running right. I already have the best wires on there, I don't know if the coil will be interchangable to the 3.8 though

I'll probably just KISS it and get the OEM replacement to get it going better and smooth the engine out (hopefully). I've just gotta get a turbo and and the intercooler cleaned and flushed and tested for leaks. The 3.8's good to go, but I don't want to do that project half-assed.

Yeah a proper burial and tear down for parts would be the right thing to do if I get rid of her. But it's all I got and can afford right now. So I'm stuck either way LOL

 

just unhook the maf and see if it runs better...

 

Driving it without the MAF hooked up won't mess with anything else? It'll be ok? So obviously if it runs better without the MAF then it's bad. Like I said I was planning on changing it anyway as every other sensor that went bad looked like it was an original factory part with how bad of shape they were in. Now I just need to get paid next Weds and do all of this to get it running again.

 

naw, it won't hurt anything. You'll throw a code and the ECM will use the default throttle position/airflow table to run.

 

Good stuff! Thanks for all the info on this. I can't wait to get my new parts and get her running again. Only 6 more days to payday.

 

Allright I'm back and the Camaro is up and running again, better than before thanks to the new coil and cleaning up the plugs. (Had some heat damage that gray chalky build up) But the damn radiator has got to go. It's clogged bad. I'm able to keep the temp down from turning the heater on and then turning the vent fans on when the heater gets to be too much and it keeps at 220. Tried to clean it out and got some nasty crap out of the radiator while I was putting on the new hoses, but the core has sand and whatever baked into it. So I need a new one. Would've gotten it over the weekend as planned if not for the fact my girl lost her job and I have to cover everything for the rest of this month. I hate being responsible sometimes. Also still need a MAF sensor. I unhooked it and it smoothed out the idle and sounded nice, for a minute. Then it died and wouldn't restart. Hooked it back up and it was back to running like usuall. It runs great after 2,000rpm, but the idle is still up and down. At least it dosen't diesel as much off the line, but when it does it it's bad like it's flooding. So I still with my toes on the gas keep it reved at about 1,000 to 1,200 rpm at a full stop in gear. So once those two are done it should be top notch and it's on to the suspension. Again thanks for your help on this guys