ok i know ive seen on here a few times about using the 3400 intake instead of the 3.1 intake....yes i know it hits the distributer i had it mocked up last night on my torn down 3.1(yay almost done) after looking at it for an hour or so lol we figured that it really wouldnt be to hard to make it work.(old links would be nice couldnt find any lol)

looking at the 3.4 intake there is plenty of room on the back side to cut a groove for the distributer to fit. relocate the vacum fittin on the back and weld up the intake. in order to make the bolt holes all line up we guessed about 3/4 of an inch would have to come outtve the back. since i was gonna just toss the intake anyways it really doesnt matter if it doesnt work or works poorly but figured might as well give her a shot.

any ideas would be appreciated as i may start playing with it on wensday night. has anyone actually moded it to work yet, i cant remember.

Benifits:

Better looking
one peice upper and middle manifold
easier to change a tstat lol
better flow design(not sure really but anythings gotta be better)
much cleaner TB design(no size diffrence it appears?)

hope to hear some responses soon

 

cut the back brace off, plug the gaps, tap the rear driver side for the t-fitting.

I know the 2.8 & 3.4 have different tbbolt holes (upside down iirc, and that the throttle cable bracket is different. never reall looked at a 3.1 setup though to compare.

 

the plan was to use the 3.4 tb and make that work, i think we are gonna give it a shot, no ones really tried it yet it seems, then i can use that intake and the 3.1 intake and maybe record some diffrences if any.

 

iirc, the throttle cable bracket will be the bytch of the swap. no boss for it to be screwed into, and the 3.4 runners are where the cables should route. I you switch to a universal cable, it'll probably be long enough to route properly.

 

Figure it out quick.. I may not push it out the shop but, I do have the power to drag it out...

 

Success (somehow) in notching the rear of the intake.. (though crappy picture taken from a crappy camera)...

 

A shot of the mess overall...

 

are the runner(s) notched too?

 

Admittidly, you have me at a loss on that question.

I have scarce knowledge of the v6 motor/swap boogie so, I don't know much about what needs what...
I'm just lending Pills shelter from the winter weather for teardown and doing the 's---.. I can probably make that (work...ish)' fab. crap under his suggestion/research.

(I can't believe I'm still awake...)

 

that question confused me as well...maybe its cuz im as well am still awake lol

thanks for posting the pics was wondering if ya would get to it,

looks like overall the intake will work nicely, just got some loose ends and a hole to patch

 

what he is talking about is did you have to notch out the runner to make space for the Distrib. the runner is the air passage that goes down into the engine.

 

looks like a good 3/4 of the back runner is gone.

 

no the notch did not cut into the acutally runners at all, just the back where it seems the air crosses over from one side to another....thats why we didnt understand what you ment becuase we didnt toucn any of the runners that go into the manifold itself(hope that made sense)

that intake is made of some pretty thick aluminum, bout 1/4 inch, kinda suprised, they couldve saved a couple pennies and made it thinner haha....coulvde saved the camaro franchise with those pennies

ne ways there will be some restriction as the air goes around the back of the intake due to the notch, not sure how that willl affect it if any though...only time will tell lol got awhile before i can actually test it unelss i bolt it to my other 3.1 car

 

those are the runners, they run from one side of the engine to the other. And the runners are what feed the engine air. n you just cut 3/4 of the back runer away.

 

For some reason I look at this and think its going to end up as a V5.2 instand of a V6...

 

ah that doesnt look too serious of a cut

 

 

seeing as non of the runners that feed directly into the engine were touched itll still get the exact same amount on all the cylnders

wish i had a picture of the underside to show how the cut looks, its not as drastic as the pictuers make it out to be, the air will still flow around the back of the intake, granted there wont be as much room.

correct me if im wrong and theres a good chance but the 3.1 intake didnt have a back section for the air to flow from both sides of the engine did it? was just like a big box design

 

no way. there may be a decent chunk out of it, but nothing over 1/4 of it i would guess. the pic isnt a very good angle though, so its hard to tell.

 

the way that section is made there really wasnt all that much room in that area to begin with with the 1/4 inch aluminum and the rear passenger runner wall takes up some room in there as well(kinda curves into the back section).....id say where it was cut originally there was maybe 1/2 inch of open space for air to flow through

yeah bad angle for sure, maybe well get soem more pics up of it, not sure if deadbird has the intake at his house or in the garage at the moemnt

 

Well any reduction in size of the runner will affect the performance of that one cyl.. And in that will reduce the HP U wanted to gain with that engine.. It may even reduce it to a point of running way to rich.. And any runner that flows the air for the engine will cause you a problem.. And from what I have seen with the 3.4 intakes.. you have reduced the amount of air getting to the #6 cyl..

 

This is why the question confused me.
The chunk I took out is just a rear x-over.. it's not really a 'runner' per-say.
Regardless of the nomenclature.. it's a descent sized chunk but, there will still be about 3/8" behind the filler for air to pass by.
I marked off about 5/8" for the notch. After cleaaning up the cut it's just a littler over.
Best picture of 3 tries..

 

what was in the bong that you cut thru?

 

its a vacum fitting, same exact one thats in the back of the 3.1 intake, the 3.4 one was on top

i think everyone thinks we cut into somethine that we didnt cut into....

 

comon Otto... thers no bong here

 

you cut into the AIR PASSAGE that goes from the tube on the top and that goes down to the manifold. it is not just a cross over it caries air fron the outside world down to the manifold. if you change its dimentios you change howmuch air can get through. In affect it is an extention of the "runner"

 

That's the same problem with fitting a dizzy to the FWD intake, but the problem is in the lower, not the upper manifold.

 

i kno this is off topic but i seen your website pillsbury10 im just curious what does your car run in the 1/4?

 

the lines on the intake show the runners, you can see that near 3/4 of the back runner is gone. You need them runners, whole. Other wise one cylinder won't get a smuch air.

 

hmm yeah thats a good diagram, i stand corrected. the thing is that even a small size difference is very bad. I dont see all the fuss of using a 3.4 intake, they're still pretty bad. no plenum volume, unequal cylinder distribution, etc. our cars have more hood clearance than the 4th gens, make a setup like the 4th gen. just slap some 2.5-3" tubes on the middle intake and join them in the center, run the TB off that. Note that if you make a Y setup like the 3.4, the 5 and 6 cylinders will have a hard time getting as much air as the front ones, a much better design would be an H setup. when its a single free plenum its not a big deal, but the Y just emphasizes it.

 

look at the pic I posted and the one of the piece he cut out.

2+2= 4 really fast

 

It goes behind the manifold, runners, plenum.. what the f ever you want to call it. It's not a dammed runner though.
I'm not even sure why I'm arguing this since it's sitting in front of me and I can clearly see what it does....

From my view.. it's just extra s--- on the back of the intake.

It is just a crossover. Not a runner.. sorry

Here's the back (actual) runner... not connected at all untill it gets to the 'upper plenum'.
I don't know how else to explain that this is a 'usless' part that was cut into.. (we all know GM engineering has 100% usefulness to it.. pffht) ....

 

it is a VAC balance tube.. And it will give you problems at higher RPM.. its job is to blance the load for the left bank to the right bank..

 

He's building this motor for a turbo anyways... vacuum balance under boost probably won't be a huge issue at that point.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.

The passage still has room for flow as well.. it's not completely blocked off. The tightest point is roughly ¼" x 1 1/8".

 

Uhhhh, no....

At WOT there is NO vacuum anyway.

After seeing that last pic, I really don't see that as making a difference in the slightest.

 

just cap off the cut & no problem.

and some of the caddy v6 engiens also have the y-intake, fwiw

 

that pic defintily shows a lot more, thanks deadbird.

keep in mind guys this is more of an experiment than anythning else, im not using the intake and sayin that is gonna give me massive power like those nos stickers on every import car. its got a shorter runner setup on it and a few other benifits to at least give it a shot for now. if it doesnt work well then it will go in the **** can like it was going to in the begging and am91camaro will HAVE to build me one haha ....

as far as i know no one has acutaly tried this so we really have no idea if it will show gains or just be for looks. at least if it doesnt its only 6 or so bolts to pull it off and trash it lol instead of like 50 of them....

 

Hopefully this is slightly better for the veiwing..

 

heres a lot more photos that show more of the actually modification to the intake

http://www.deadbird.org/swin/index.php?showtopic=206

looks good, so far im happy with it, i cant wait to see what it looks like coated and on my engine

 

well a little bit more progress on the intake and motor in general. bought the fittings for the vacum lines today at work, hopefully we can get those tapped and in the intake in the next day or so and get the manifold powdercoated, cant wait to see how it looks.

also tonight got my oil filter adapter off my old engine so i can take it to put on the new engine and hopefully bring the engine home mon or tues night....then PICTURES woohoo

coulpe questions for those who have done the swap, hole size to plug up the cam and crank sensor?

and more detailed info on the fan switch where it is and where it has to go?

 

Leave the sensor in and just snip the wires completely down to the base of the sensor.

 

hmm ya know....thats a good idea.....yet for some reason i didnt think about that and i already threw the sensors out with all the 3.4 crap i didnt need haha whoops

one broke on the way out to, which is why i just threw them out

 

I put a freeze plug in the crank sensor hole, I belive it was 3/4"

I never could get the cam sensor out.

 

we plugged them today at the shop so thats taken care of, used MM size plugs though, i forgot what size lol

i have some new pics of the engine that i will post once i get them off the camera, it looks freakin sweet.

should be tapping the intake tonight for the vacum fittins so hopefully i can get that coated tonight as well and have it ready for the engine this week. pics coming soon!!!

 

I still wanna see the throttle bracket

 

did you try using the smaller s-10 distributor ?
(as seen in the 60 degree bible,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
I wonder if it would've squeezed in?

 

The S-10 dizzy is the same size as the dizzy in the above pics.

IIRC the "660 bible" is comparing the S-dime dizzy to the early FWD coil in cap dizzys.

 

s10 dizzy uses a different ICM, but as for size, I say it is very similar.

 

What year(s)?

The late model EFI dizzys I've seen use the same ICM between F-body/S-series/Lumina APV, etc.

It's the same size, because it's the same dizzy.

 

I had 1 93 s10 2.8, and worked on 3 other 93 s15's 2.8. They all used a different ICM then my camaro.

Dont recall what the 85 s10 2.5 used....


Now the 4.3l ones, use the same cap as us, but the bottom half is different.