k..got it to start right up now due to new starter. FIRES RIGHT UP IN LIKE. 1 second.lol. timings at 12*. idles about 900. it shakes at idle, exhaust is shaking and stuff, when i give it gas it stumbles and shakes. question is...WTF!
What will cause it to shake? bad ICM, coil? i got 3.1liter injectors in there from a j.y..maybe theres a bad one? other than that what will cause it to run like poop.

 

***UPDATE******* now when its idiling, its still shakey but when i turn the air on the motor barely stays running...the idle drops down and just runs like straight up dog $H!t. Im bout to stick a stick of dynomite up its TB

 

ook, now when i let it idle and run, it was still shaking, then the fan kicked on and the idle lowered then the car shut off. the temp guage stayed at like 120ish so i am assuming its not reading anything. I am so lost i dont know what to do. I pulled the coil off and popped one in off of a spare 350 i got and it fired right up and didnt shake as much, now its back to its same old self.

 

Man I wish I could get mine to fire!!! I know I have to have had the dizzy in correct one time. I read in another post that this guys camaro was running like crap, stalling, rough idle and such. He replaced the injectors and the car ran better than ever. I just read other posts that deal with starting problems and talke it all in.

 

hows vac while its running?
whats fuel pressure at?
What do the plugs look like?

Sounds like your either not enough spark/to much fuel, or its got a massive vac leak.

 

when first fired up the 3.4 it ran liek crap & backfired, then I discovered from rotating teh dizzy that it was off 180*, yada yada ydad, Dale rebuilt it like 6 times

 

well, i dont have access to fuel pressure guage. but out of two sets of injectors, one from the junkyard and the known good set before the motor was pulled, one of them sets will work. I am ruling out the fuel prob. I think its either timing or ignition. When it cranks, it cranks like its on steriods like a strong and fast whahwhawhawha POOOOOF, instead of the normal wha wha wha whhhaaa whaapoof. I think my dizzy is either a tooth or so off or something..iono, if it was 180* out do you think it will still idle smooth and run? cause it will start up, idle and run, but when the air conditioning is on the motor idles low and runs like crap, and jsut today when the fan kicked on the motor shut off. The car idles fine but when giving it gas it just shakes. I dont hear any hissing sounds that are really loud. I hear a SLIGHT one, but i am not sure cause i redid my lines following a diagram from the autozone page, but they didnt have all the things on that sheet that are on my motor, so maybe my lines are all bassakwards

 

i have the firebird that had the starting problem read the post that says no start please help, it gives a whole rundown of what my car and another camaro were doing and all the crap i went through to fix it

 

Vacuum leak or bad firing order....recheck all the wires to the plugs, make sure they're all hooked up correctly. I assume it's a dead miss, not an intermittent miss.

 

is your ses light on?, you said your fan was running, but not warmed up?, the fan will run 100% of the time if your throwing a code 15, coolant temp signal too low, it will tell the computer your coolant is -40, loading up with fuel and adding WAY too much timing, check your sensor and connections if you have a code 15, and no, the car wouldnt even think of firing if it was 180* off, at least it didnt for me, swap your plug wires 180* around and see what happens!, i put my 3.4 in, that was my first problem

 

ok, thanks guys so much for the info.. this place flipping rocks, to bad im just retarded when it comes to these fuel injected motors. Well, the engine light does not come on when its running, and when the fan kicked on, the temp. guages stayed still, i dont think it moved at all when the car was running. SO i am assuming the sending unit or what ever sensor controls that guage is bad. but i dont know why it would have shut off and my car still have a miss

 

dang, just found somehting else out, after i set my timing, i checked it again and when i gave it gas the timing advanced athen when the idle went down it wetn back to 12*. wtf

 

when you timed it did you disconnect that wire by the pass side strut tower for the timing advance

 

something else, today when i let it idle, the fan kicked on and the motor idled low fora sec. soundling like it was going to shut off..but then the idle got higher and the engine light came on when the fan kicked on. So you think its a bad coolant temp sensor?

 

quite possible.

 

ok, i just replaced the coolant temp. switch and the car ran the same, the temp guage stays at the same spot. I pulled codes and it gave me 15 which is CTS, 34, which is MAF or MAP, i replaced the Maf a few months ago, and 12, EST. Why would it pull a EST code?

 

Est/code 15 is for when you ste the timing, normal and disregard it. (assuming you did disconnect the wire when you set the timing)

code 12 just tells you your in bypass mode, disregard it.

The sensor for the guage, and the sensor for the ecm is two different sensors. The one for the guage is in the left head, up front... right behind the ac unit.

 

ok, even tho i reconnected the est wire i will still get that code? so that sensor for my temp guage is on teh front of the drivers side head? why am i getting the CTS code then? i just replaced it. And its givng me the 34 code. I want to know why my cars running like pooooooooooooooo .lol

 

code 15 will stay for a certin amount of starts after setting it. I forget how many.

CTS code will stay tell you clear the ecm... along with your map/maf code... and about any other code.

Yes, guage sensor is in the drivers head

 

still wonder why my car runs like its effed up. When i give it gas the timing advances then goes back to 12. Iono why it would do taht

 

the ecm advances the timing on its own disconnect the est wire and it should stay there. almost any code that gets thrown in your computer will stay till you reset the comp. disconnect the batt for 10 sec to clear them

 

look for a vaccum leak, that is what a code 34 indicates, or it could be a bad maf. unplug the MAF and see how it runs

 

just thought of something...... anytime you put a large electrical load on the engine idles down/slows..... have the alt tested for free. I've actually seen one slow up & almost stop on the testing booth. Never beleived it until I saw it happen.

 

well, i unplugged my Maf and no difference, my alt is good cause my amp guage stays at about 13. My car is running like it has a bad miss, idles fine but u can hear a miss and when you give it gas it shakes, and when it revs up it takes awhile for the rpms to go back down. its effed up, but hopefully it something stupid like with the ignition or something, maybe ICM?

 

ignore the guage and have it tested.
gm factory guages are not the most accurate.

 

its not my alternater. Why can i start it up over and over again with no sign of drain onthe battery? it stays running fine until the fan kicks on then the idle goes down and then shuts off. Then i can start it right back up.

 

You have 2 different readings on the alt.

volts
amps.

What hes saying on the alt is that your not putting out enough AMPS, not volts. Try this, start the car and start turning on every electric option and see what it does. If it dies before the fans kick on, I'll bet alt has something to do with it. If it doesnt, then possibly a short in the fan system.

Also, what color is your spark? This will also tell how good your ignition system is, which also defaults back to how much power it is reciving.

 

how should i check spark color?

 

check when its dark, pull a plug wire off at the spark plug, stick a screw driver into the plug wire end, and hold it like 1/4 inch away from a good ground while the car is running, use some gloves, getting shocked doesnt really hurt, but u'll scare the crap outa yourself. look at the spark color, also, check your fuel pressure already!!!

 

k, tested fuel pressure, when i turn the key on it goes to 41, then slowly went to 40 and stayed there for a min. then i started the car up and it was at about 40, but with the engine miss, the guage was moving back and forth between 40 and 41 pretty fast. shut car off and stayed there so far. WTF. i pulled the spark plugs off one at a time and found out number 2 was missing, cause when i pulled it almost no difference, and same with number one. but if injectors are holding pressure, I JUST put new plugs in there today, i have the cheapo set of plug wires i bought last week, but i ran that brand before. iono what it is, i am really really getting sick of messing with this thing
----------
BTW, if my oil sending unit is snapped off and not connected, will it make it run like that? lol

 

With the opsu broke off, the car may not start. Some cars have a trigger that if there is no oil pressure, it shuts it off.

If 1 and 2 have no change in idle, then thats your miss-fire. Either no spark, no air, or no fuel to them cylinders.

What did the plugs look like from them 2 cylinders?

 

i didnt check the plugs, but i put a new sensor in there and still runs the same..im assuming a vaccum leak now

 

Ok
pulling 1/2 made no difference when the others did. That tells me your problem should start there.
are you absolutely sure you put wires on in correct order with PASSANGER front being #1?
if not there ya go. slap yourself in the back of the head, correct them and see.
Your fuel pressure is fine.
check the gaps in the plugs, see if they are fouling out and what is doing it.
Have you had the AMPS tested on the alt yet? some ECMs hate seeing low voltage and it makes them act funky.
The oil pressure sending unit can be giving the ECM a bad signal, or fluttering signal to interfere with spark.

 

k, didnt check the plugs yet, fuel good, put the sensor on, no difference, had alt tested, turned out fine, has new plugs, cap, rotor, cheapo wires, but on those two bad plugs i changed wires with known good ones and no diffence, so iono wtf to do

 

compression test.

 

check the injectors on the two cylinders with the bad plugs. i had bad injectors and killed a set of plugs in a week. i would say that and the compression check

 

yes a fuel washed cyl wall will destroy rings pretty quick.

 

if my fuel pressure is good, you think there still can be a bad injector?

 

if it is either not opening, or staying open yes.
and like I said above, if they are sticking open it will do several things.
1. the plugs will always foul out and be fuel soaked
2. the constant fuel wash will wipe the oil off the cylinder walls letting the rings rub bare metal wearing them out in no time.

So, it still runs like crap, but does it al least run now?
You said you tried pulling the spark wires one by one, and the only ones that DID NOT effect performance was wires 1 and 2.

If that is the case, then that tells me that you have a problem between those two cyls. either wires hooked up backwards or some other prob.
If the plugs are fuel fouled constantly, your looking at injectors and possibly rings.

I would do the compression check and see what all the cyls are doing. Also please remember that when you crank the engine for the test to have the TB WIDE OPEN and the ECM/fuel pump fuse pulled.
Report those numbers.
Also, get a vacuum guage. 15-20 bucks for an external type, you will use this more than a few times. Put the guage on the motor and report that number.

I re-read some of your posts and you commented on the engine almost stalling when you the fans comes on it dies. Are you talking about A/C fan or normal operating fan.
If A/C remove belt and check the clutch to see if it is sticking.
If normal op fan, remove the power plug and put a voltmeter on it and test resistance (if it registers anything over 1-2 ohms you may have found at least one prob). It may be shorting out internally creating havoc with elect system.

Are all your engine ground straps in place?

 

thank you so much for the info v6sucker. When i pulled those plugs it didnt do anything at first then it seemed like it slightly affected it, not totally but slightly. It Idles perfect and starts up perfect, i really dont want to go out and buy a compression guage just for this, i just bought a fuel pressure guage for 30 bucks, I hope to hell the rings arnt toast cause then i would have to pull the motor back out, I pulled the plug out of number two cyl. and number 4 to compare, they looked the same and had SLIGHT traces of gas on them. I am replacing all my vaccum lines up now, but i have two by the blower area on hte passengers side that come out of the big wiring harness and i dont know where these two go, they are small hard lines comming out of the harness. but anyways back to the motor, when it runs, like i said it just shakes, when i give it gas it stumbles then revs up adn when i rev it up it sounds fine in the higher rpms.

 

so now it is more of a drivability problem correct?
slight stumble/iffy idle?

Then yes you are on the right track of replacing the vacuum lines.
If you have a manual for the car look at the emissions diagram, hook up the bare MINIMUM. Skip the emissions for right now, and concentrate on narrowing the suspects.

Also you might want to start by hooking the lines one at a time, and plugging the rest.
IE you dissconnect the brake booster, plug it run the fuel pressure and other absolutely needed lines. Start the car. If it idles and runs better you can eliminate those parts from the list.
Then hook up brake booster, start the car, see how it runs. A leaking brake booster can cause similar problems.
You just follow that line untill all the lines are back in and the car runs the way it should. You will also find out quickly and systematically what parts are bad.

 

the line that goes into the harness is the line to your hvac bulb.

Since plug 2/4 look the same, I'm going to say you have a vac problem. Buy that meter, its only a few bucks.

Remeber, almost all these tools were telling you to buy are not specific to this car, they work on MANY other cars. So you can keep these if you ever get rid of this car.

 

k.well this is awsome, i bought a compression guage and the readings are...........


#2-0
#4-200
#6-200
#1-90
#3-0
#5-200

 

ok did you hold trottle full open and crank 4-5 times?
if you did that, well you found your problem.
been there... sucks.

 

yea i held the throttle open, had t he coil unplugged, unpluggedthe harness tothe injectors and pulled the ecm fuse. i am wondering if it was from when my and my friend relashed my valves following a fwd bookfor a 2.8. I wonder if i have them to tight? because when my car ran, ther was no smoke or anything, you really think it can be the piston rings? if so how hard would it be to fix them then?

 

pop the covers off and check, hell otherwise your pullin the motor. And you would feel like a real if all you had to do was check the rocker arms.

Ok, it does run you said. If so great, put on a shirt you do not mind getting dirty, and prepare to get that way very quick.

1. Remove valve covers. Yes put the intake back on so you can start the car.
2. Have the needed socket size handy
3. Have a friend start the car.
4. With free hand spin the push rod, and turn the wrench. When the rod can no longer spin freely, go 1/3-1/2 more turn and move to next rod/rocker.

If you do not want to get dirty you can do it motor off...
remove valve covers, intake and distributor cap. Mark on the dizzy where the spark plug wires hook to.
Please for petes sake remove spark plugs, you will thank me.
Get socket and breaker bar and spin the engine (VERY SLOWLY!!!!) manually by turning with crank bolt to get each piston TDC.
they are TDC when the rotor is pointing to that cylinder mark on dizzy that you made earlier.
As they go TDC both rockers should NOT be loaded. Preceede with spin crank meathod.

to do the rings is another no biggie once engine is out.
take off oil pan, unbolt the rods, push through the top remove old rings. Read the instructions with new rings and do the oppisite. Though you will need ring compressor, about $10 bucks.

 

very possible the valves are sticking open, but can also be a fryed cam lobe (ask me how I know that one!).

However, you said it was 1/2 you were having problems with, that appears to be 2/3. First thing I would do is re-adjust your rockers.

FWD process should be same as RWD. But if you need to know exactly how gm says to do it, let me know and I will scan my book and send it to you.

 

thanks dale and v6sucker, this forum is so helpful during my time of need.haha..yea, i guess the easiest thing to do is pull the valve covers first. so when i turn each cylinder to TDC, the pushrods should be relaxed? relashing the valves is kinda hard to me, i am a little LD with that stuff.haha.m.y b uddy did my valves last time.

 

no, they will be fully loaded with pressure, or should be after you adjust them.

 

I think what he means by "relaxed" is that the valve wont be open. Which would be correct, both valves will be closed when your setting them.

Like I said, if you want me to scan the page(s) of my book for you, I have no problem doing that.