I've been searching around and can't find any real/complete information on 'downgrading' from a v8 to a v6. I was wondering if anyone was in the know or could point me in the right direction/post a link.

Im currently interesting in the 3.4 in the 4th gens. I plan on putting an aftermarket computer system in it, so the electronics are covered. I need to know more about will my stock t-5('84 305 born) bolt up, and about attaching the motor to the mounts in the engine bay.

If your telling me to search, please give me a user name or some better keywords to get me the info I need.

You might ask "Why", but I won't bore you with MY reasoning to do this to MY car.

Thank You!

EDIT: I struck gold. Sooo, a 3.4 block from a 4th gen will bolt in(more or less) to the car, but I'm still not sure if my tranny will be an issue.

 

well, i'm finding what I need now.

Sorry for taking up space and time.

Me----> <----Me

 

Have you considerd the Vortec 4.6L V6s?

 

The 3.4 should bolt in like a 2.8 or 3.1 and your trans should work fine with an new bell housing for the v6 engine. The nice part about this swap is parts are easier to find and cheaper because everyone else is taking them out to replace them with v8's. My guess is your username has alot to do with why you want to do this. I like my v6 car it gets great gas mileage and is fun to drive.

 

Well, actually that is a past profession. Now I'm an industrial designer, it pays a lot better(Stay in school kids!!!)

Well, the vortech sounds like another idea to look into.

I'm looking for a v6 of some sort, and the 3.4 sounds like the direction I would like to go.

ScottyRS, if you know of someone with that combo on this site, I would like to prod them about the swap.

New bellhousing for the trans?? Which housing would I need??
Do you mean a bellhousing from the 4th gen. I currently have an L69 with a t-5, and I would like to keep my transmission.

 

he mentioned the bellhousing because the v6 has a different bolt pattern on the back of the block.

 

if you want to put a six in stick with a 90* block if you plan on using a V8 trans. V8 and V6 T-5's have different unput shafts so unless you get a custom clutch made you need a V6 trans, if you stay with a 3.8 or a 4.3 you will keep the big bolt pattern and be able to use your existing trans.

Why do you want to make such a huge leap back in power?

 

Yeah, inquiring minds want to know!

Being that this is a V6 forum, I don't think anyone is gonna bash you for your reasoning.

 

Huge leap back??? In cubes, yes. In power, no.

My primary discipline is road racing/autocross, so taking a few hundered lbs. off the nose is really attractive. Gas milage runs a very close second.
I'm not much of a drag racer, except occasionally on the street.(Just gettin up to speed, officer, i swear)

I'm also an engineering minded individual, so wringing lots of power from a smaller package is a personal challenge for myself. Anyone can make 350HP from 383 cubic inches. I'm gonna try to do it with only 6 cylinders. And I'm shootin for 25mpg combined as well. I'm currently making 200HP from a 305 that gets 15mpg or worse. I hate carbs. I feel like a cave-man workin on it.

From my understanding, I could build/install a modern v6 that will actually out-perform the aging L69. To get a bigger bore in a v8 platform would require going up in cubes, which will just add weight, expense, and fuel consumption. Not the direction I want to go.

The v6 will eventually get a turbo, with an electronic, adjustable wastegate. Combine that with a Mega-Squirt injection setup, and I'll have a car that can outrun most imports on 5-7psi, and really haul with 10-15psi. With everything electronically controlled, I could switch between my modes with the flip of a switch.(In theory, anyway).

Am I wrong in thinkin I could hit 300+ HP by 6000rpm in a 15psi v6? I'm doin my reasearch now to make sure I get the best v6 for my needs.

5-7psi, or less=mpg
10-15psi, or more=

The manual trans. is a requirement for my enjoyment, and keeping the one I have is an excercise in cost-cutting. I'm also worried that a v6 trans wouldn't hold up.

Xplane, is the 3.8 or 4.3 you mentioned the 3800 series motors?? I still also don't have a clue about the vortech v6.
All the generations and series and alum. this and iron that and 60* and 90* is a lot to sort out. Ya gotta use some more concrete terms with my, as of now, limited knowledge.

 

well there are 2 types of Chevy bolt patterns the Big bolt pattern found mostly on 90* V8s and the larger V6s and the small bolt pattern found mostly on 4 and 6 cyl 60* engines. if it is a FWD 90* or 60* motor chances are that is a small bolt pattern like the ones on the 60*v6 and if its a RWD 90* motor its prolly a big bolt pattern. im not to shure about the new LS engines or the new 4.3s but i know that all of the new 00 (3100, 3400, and such) engines use the 60* bolt pattern.

The 3.8 i am refering to is the ones from the 4thgen on back not the new ones those are for the FWD cars and have the small bolt pattern. the 4.3 i am refering to is the ones from the s10 and such i know the older ones have the big bolt pattern but im not shure about the new ones.

 

just incase it gets asked, again, 3800 Series II as found in the F & W body cars has the same bell housing bolt pattern as the 2.8~3.4 iron block engines. a few here are working on this swap, and I'm assisting w/what not to do/what to look for in said swap (when asked)

 

300HP kills a lot of the T5's out there.

I know on the 4th gen V6's that are at that level of torque/power, most upgrade to the A4 after going through a couple transmissions.

Otherwise you're looking fitting in a race-built trans like the g-force builds. There's some info on some of the other V6 boards that discuss this, though not with how well they fit into the 3rd gens.

-Jeff

 

Okay, the 4.3 i've learned is the vortech, and came stock in the chevy s10.

So the older 4.3s(94-95ish) have the big bolt pattern, correct?

Since the s10 guys bolt 350's into thier trucks with ease, does it work the other way with our cars??. I think that is a very viable idea if it would work.

I've read about the infamous t-5 on the trans board, but until I put a turbo on it and crank it up, I'm pretty sure my 305 t-5 could hold on. I'm pretty easy on my car, even racin it.(Don't have a lot of resources for broken motors). It's just a matter of mating it to the engine for now.

 

The 3.4 was rated at 160 hp in the 94 camaro. 300 hp does not sound undoable. If you want light I would try using the 3.4 or the 3800 series II motor from a 94 or newer camaro. The 4.3 from a 94 or 95 s10 has the big bolt pattern bellhousing and will bolt directly to the 305 t5. The 4.3 is a 350 minus two cylinders. The 4.3 probably won't get much better gas mileage than the 305. Mike

 

I hear ya pizza_guy! I plan on holding onto my T-5 for as long as possible even though I am currently building a turbo setup for my 2.8L. I may not hit 300HP, but I hope to get at least 300Lbs/ft of torque which from what I've been told is what really kills the T-5. After that I may go with a T-56 or a Tremec T-5 replacement, neither of which are budget oriented options.

 

Well, thats somethin to think about all right.

I appreciate your thoughts 83z28, and I think your probably right. That would not meet my goals very well.

Well, since a 60*, small bolt pattern is in order, that brings up another thought...Is there a bellhousing to mate the small pattern to my trans? Perhaps a b.housing from a 2.8-3.4 motors. Those are the smaller patten, correct?
Is it done with an adapter instead? Or would it require a custom(meaning $$$) piece?

I could purchase a 3800 and v6 trans as a unit, but I'm worried the v6 designed gearbox would fail miserably once I start hopping it up. Aside from purchasing an entirely new racing unit, is there a way to beef up these transmissions.
Did the t-5 change much between 3rd and 4th generations? I'm pretty intimate with the 3rd gen t-5, and if the 4th gen is the same, that could save some learning curve.

RSfreak, how would you mount a t-56 to the 2.8?? Daves12secV6 is developing an adapter, but he is making it out of 4.5" thick aluminum plate. That can't be cheap. To buy or machine.

 

Your trans will bolt to the bellhousing from a 2.8, 3.1, 3.4, or 3.8. I don't think the trans changes much between 3rd and 4th gens other than 88 and older are slightly different. Also the 3800 in '99 was rated at 205hp and 240hp supercharged all though I don't think they ever put supercharged engines in camaros. Mike

 

Well, if I can find a somewhat simple way to mount the 3.8, I would like to use it. If not, the 3.4 bolts in. I can keep my trans as long as I get the proper stock bellhousing.

I think that would cover my issues. Any specific year or model of the 3.4/3.8 that you guys recommend?? The 3.8 is only available in the 5th gen, and the 3.4 is in the 4th, correct?

You guys are great, thanks for sorting some of these things out for me.

 

the 5th gen is the new new camaro. the later 4th gens had the 3.8s, i think it was 95 or so when they switched but i'm not 100% sure.

 

The V6 & V8 T5's have different input shafts. Spline count to be exact. Will need a hybrid clutch disk to use the V8 trans with a 60* V6.

May also want to consider the transmission ratios difference between the two.

Picking up a V6 T5 is easy. And a V8 T5 is worth more. Could come out ahead.

RBob.

 

I believe it was actually '98 same year as the LS1 and new front fascia made there debut on the 4th gen. My buddy has a '98 SC with the 3800. It runs strong and has been very dependable for him.

 

what is teh diameter diff between teh v6 & v8 clutches? if insignificant, why not just use the v8 clutch for the v6 setup? spline count would be a non-issue

 

how is spline count a "non-issue"? I don't know for sure about the clutches between the two but i know tq convertors are substancially different diameters...a v8 convertor won't fit inside the v6 bellhousing

 

I'm referring to using a v8 clutch on the v8 5speed, and utilize the v6 flywheel on the v6 engine.

 

i may be wrong here but i think a v8 clutch is 10.5 inch,and a v6 clutch is 9.5,if thats the case a v8 clutch will not fit inside the v6 bellhousing.

 

I did a quick search and found the 3.4 & 3800 clutch has the correct splines for the v8 trans. Mike

 

have you even considered the L67 (supercharged 3800) that replaces the trans trouble and you can get some hellish juice from that motor (hell it practically bulletproof) I considered one for my buick Century or even a northstar of some sort.

 

stoned_pimp420...Yes, I thought about the L67, but want a turbo instead. I feel I can manipulate it more for my needs. Did you see the bit about switching between boost levels in my post above. Also, how would that trans be any stronger?? NO to the northstar. That's a v8 last I heard and probably heavier than what I got already. Have you read any of the posts on this thread?? Well, the user name explains it. "Pimped out" is the LAST thing I want for my ride.

Well, if the spline count is the same on the 3.4 and 3800, could the v8 t-5, v6 b.housing, and v6 clutch bolt together. It sounds like it would. I like that idea.

Well, if the trans is as I think, the choice is between 3.4 and 3800. I think $$$ will be the deciding factor.(As always...sigh)

 

They should bolt together no problem. The 3.4 clutch should fit either the 2.8 or 3.1. The Northstar is all aluminum so probably not heavier but not much lighter either. Mike

 

go w/l67 long block, use f-bod 3800 intake for firewall clearance, hook turbo up.

 

Ya'll are fabulous!! I'll start documenting my swap here when it begins this fall.

 

if you go w/the 3800, use a 97+ pcm (depending on yr of harness), as both digital horse power & hpTuners have tuning programs available

 

Well, I've got some other shorter-term goals in mind, so I've gone with a MegaSquirt. It will eventually go on the v6. I'm pretty sure I can duplicate anything necessary to run the motor to it's full potential. The entire car is going to be rewired in an effort to shave unnecessary lbs. I might even go with a manual steering box. With the v6 up front, does it turn much easier??

 

They're still a beast to turn in a parking lot.

 

No difference in turning that I can find.

Good luck with your weight shaving!

 

just use skinnier front tires

 

Maybe ive got strong forearms... but i drove a 350 3rd gen for awhile with no powersteering and it didnt seem too bad.

 

Skinnier tires are out. I might even go a smidge wider.

I guess I don't mind the effort...I owned a fiero with 245/50 tires on the front, and I could live with that. It'll just be a little tougher than that.

Has anyone ever damaged the steering shaft by the new excessive force? Anywhere between the wheel and the box I should worry about.

EDIT: Scratch the manual steering. Unless I can keep a performance ratio, I'll live with the power steering. 7 turns lock to lock is absurd in a sports car.

 

I drove my '83 Z28 for about a year after the power steering pully flew off. It sucked, but my arms were getting big!

 

a straight manual steering box should turn easier than a powersteering box w/o the pump.

 

That's true, project85, but is there an easily swappable manual box that doesn't turn like a truck?? I'm spoiled with my WS6 bird in this regard, and I couldn't live with a long steering wheel travel.

Hmm...If I disconnect the pump(i.e. remove belt), will that lead to damage to my steering gear?? Anywhere from the steering wheel to the box vulnerable to excessive force resulting. I would consider doing this at events if I could do it safely.

 

i belive an s-10 pickup box fits the f-body,ive ppulle dmy serp belt at the track before,but motor tends to get hot by the time make it down the track due to idling in the staging lanes,soon as i make my run id have to pull over on the return road and reinstall the belt.though i havent done it on my turbo motor,but on the na engine i picked up just over .300 with the belt off

 

Yop should be fine if you remove the belt. THere'll still be plenty of fluid in the box to keep it lubed and the sterring rod is the same with or w/out P/S. If you have the stock sterring wheel on the car, then it's not too hard to turn, but if you're like me and have a smaller wheel, it's way harder, you really have to muscle the thing around in parking lots. I know first hand because I was on the freeway last night when my P/S bracket broke and chucked the serpentine belt. It was a pain to manuver around in the parking lot of my shop this morning.

 

So was it confirmed that a V6 clutch will fit on the input shaft of a V8 tranny? I have a WC-T5 that I want to bolt up to my V6 for the same reasons, I just haven't started the project yet. My 700r4 is hindering my autocross career, hehe.