well time to toss the stock 3.1
since i sold my aluminum headed 3.4 engine,i purchased a very low mileage 3.1
this engine is getting .030 oversized Keith Black forged pistons which i purchased brand new on ebay for 35$'s!!!!!!!!!.
its also getting 327 sbc forged h beam rods machined to fit the 60* v6
i will be using the stock crankshaft in this engine cause with the baby on the way i cant afford to drop another 1,100 for a crower 4340 forged crankshaft

well heres some pics of the engine i took a few days ago before i striped it down to a bare block in order to bore the engine

 

heres some shots of the new heads

 

Looks promising!

 

nice heads...

but that block is gonna need a good bath!!


Has anyone come up with a FWD intake system with a dizzy?

 

dale im working on a fwd topend swap intake.
i just took some new pics of evertything ill post them when i get home since i cant get them off my camera at work,forgot my dam usb cable

 

heres some mor epics of new parts and the engine i striped down to rebuild.

 

and a few more






the block goes out tommorow to be hot tanked and bored and honed .030 over
when i get my pistions in probably on monday the rotating assembly is going out to get balanced for 8k+ rpms

 

8k rpm's?! What lifters/cam setup are you gonna use to get that kind of revs?
Are those the 3.4 heads on this one too?
.
P.S. Congrats on the new baby, I thought you had him/her by now. Last I heard about the baby, you were considering selling you turbo stuff (glad you didn't)!
just had my fourth two weeks ago yesterday, boy. Oldest is girl, then boy, girl then boy. Sorry to change sub.

 

nope she didnt have the baby yet,we just found out its a girl.the due date is on april first.im gonna be running a custom grind done by crane cams,i have ls6 spec spec springs on the aluminum heads,the heads are 3100/3400 heads that have been ported and flow just over 230 cfm on the intake side,im ognna swap out the valves i have for some backcut valves and see if i cant pick up a few more cfm

 

Looks like fun. lol

 

Your old heads are polished/ported? What are you gonna do with them?
230cfm? That's huge isn't it (for the V6 I mean).

 

cool, i should do all that to my 6 cyl. so it can keep up with my 8 cyl.... lol

 

i sold my ported iron heads a while ago,the engine thats in the car currently is just a bone stock 3.1,thats why im building the new engine.

if ya like i can rebuild/port the iron head sthat are on the stock 3.1 and sell them to ya when i finish up this new engine and install it.

230 isnt that spetacular(these heads onkly have some mild porting)(though im about to have the chambers modified and some more port work done looking for another 10-20 cfm),the stock untouched head flows 211cfm @.500 lift,the problem is the stock/replacement cams dont have much lift,a high lift cam will pick up 20 cfm on the iron heads.a cam with .500+ lift will wake up either set of heads,but the aluminum heads outflow the iron heads across the board by alot no matter what lift.
tommorow ill post some pics of the full sheet metal manifold,i just finished up some machine work on part of it,and should be starting to fab up the runners
----------
all this work will kill most v8's on the road

 

are the exhaust ports really the same locals as the iron heads?

 

yeah,my stock manifolds bolted right to the aluminum heads,the intake ports are moved on the aluminum heads,though if u get aluminum heads with the d port ex ports i think the ex ports are in diff locations

 

The port locations on all 3 generations are the same, the difference is the bolt spacing.

On genII the bolts are spaced farther away from the port as compared to the genI heads. The GenIII using the same bolt spacing, but the port shape changes, whihc is also part of the reason the genIII heads flow much better on the exhaust as compared to the genII heads.

 

ut oh i better dbl check mine then cause i only threw 2 upper bolts on them i didnt fully bolt them on

 

well i know i said i had pics of whats been done so far with the intake but i forgot my camera at work,so here are some from a few days ago when i started to make the plates/flanges for the intake that bolt to the heads.i took the heads off the engine for the pics so u could see were i started to scribe out the shape of the flange before i started to machine.unfortunatly the pics i have of the actualy machine work are on my camera at work so ill post thos tom.for now heres from when i first started on the intake

 

 

and heres some of the stocker iron heads,if anyone wants ill rebuild/port/polish these and sell them

 

Interested, how much flow you think you can pull from them?
Details please 'cause I have a race shop nearby who said they can do them for me, but I would like to compare and possibly support a fellow thirdgenner...

 

im unsure exactlt id have to get them flow tested to be sure.

anyways ups just made a delivery to my house about 45 mins ago

grand total for this deliver was 47.16$
Keithblack .030 forged pistions/w pins for use with the aluminum heads

 

NICE!!! You got those for $35, nobody knew what they are worth?!
PM sent on heads

 

they came from a machine shop,somone had ordered them and never paid/picked them up,and i was the only person to bid on them.i pick up stuff like this all the time on ebay

 

If you keep your eye out for it, definitely.
Next time you see a deal like that, send it my way

 

what's the weight diff between the iron & aluminum heads? I don't recall the gmpp catalog ever giving any weights out for them.

 

im usure ill wiegh them when i goto work tom if i can

 

i should be able to get pretty much anything flowed if anyone needs to. i should be able to get ahold of some stock FWD head flow numbers soon, one of my friends is flowing a (gen II? FWD) head for his project. were not positive of the exact year or model it came off of but given the condition of it and the D shape ports, im pretty sure its a gen II head. i can check w/ him and get the flow numbers if anyones interested.

 

if they have d ports they are gen 3

 

gmpp catalog dropped the 60* heads, I'm gonna see if I cain hunt up my old copy for the p/n, maybe google will find pics for them iirc, they had aluminum gen 1~3 heads listed

 

i weighed my aluminum heads a while back... if i remember correctly, they were about 12 lbs bare (no valves or anything in them). The iron heads were about 25 bare. so, the pair of aluminum heads will weigh roughly the same as one iron head!

 

There are flow numbers for all 3 generations of heads and even some flow numbers for some ported heads at 60degreev6.com.

The way I see it, if you're going through all this trouble, don't even bother with the genII heads, it's the same amount of work, and with the availablity now, about the sam eprice, maybe just slightly more to go with the genIII heads, but gains far out weigh any additional cost there might be.

Dave, I had thought about making some plates exactly, like you are doing, but for the time being decided it was way too much machin work, to get it right, at this point. So I'm going to modify a factory intake for testing, purposes, then if it works well, start from scratch.

I also have a plan for a modified dizzy that will work with a stock genIII intake.

 

hey the plates are easy to make,machining the slots for the pushrods are a bitch though,really wish i had a cnc machine.my biggets mistake was using 3/4 thich plates,after machining the pushrod slots the plat5es were really thin.so i scraped those plates in favor of 1.250 thick plates.the 3/4 plates would have worked but i was worried about them warping or not sealing properly with the manifold bolted down.

on the other hand i may jave found a oem manifold base that u can use with the dizzy,it will require a custom upper plenum though.but an upper plenum is easy enough to build.ill have this manifold in a few days actualyl it should be delivered tommorow.and ill let u know how well it fits

the only reason i used gen 2's apart from better flow at low lift was i got them brand new for free from a friend with a engine machine shop who has had them in storage for years.though i found a set on ebay going for 45$'s(gen 3's) that i may buy.though i hate to waste all the money i spent on portwork for the gen2's,got them to flow 233 cfm

 

There's no factory GM intake manifold that will allow use of a dizzy, without modification.

Even the genII intake has the #6 runner in the same area that would be occupied by the dizzy cap.

I'm not worried about the pushrod pathes, but the seal for the rocker covers, was more my concern.

 

nice lookin progess there.... i dont know how much info you know about the 60* i know the fwd versions like the back of my hand..you might wanna go check out http://60degreev6.com/ they have lots of great info (not shure about rwd applications but im sure some things will still help out) theres alot of v6 cavalier owners on there. those guys will try just about anything (i would know i was one of them )

 

i found a very easy way to make this part,once i get the pics posted i bet ull be like wtf why didnt i think of this
actually i just cut out alot of the plate so the guideplates would clear.then fabricated a valve cover rail out of 1/4 thick sheet metal that comes down and welds to the plates i made.soon asi get everything finished up ill post some pics.
its a very simple way to do it and very effective

 

this is the manifold base i thought might clear the dizzy,just got deliverd,even if it dosent fit it was only 9$'s + 10 shipping,atelast now ill be able to figure out what to do to modify a stock manifold to make it clear




edit is this the same as the newer 3100/3400 sfi manifolds? the base part anyways?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MEWN:IT&ih=005
just got this to replace the volvo intercooler ive been using since ive been noticing some boost drop over 14psi

 

That's a genII intake, and the dizzy still won't clear.

No, the LIM is NOT the same as the genIII, the port shape and hight is more different than you'd probably believe without seeing it yourself.

 

how much does the dizzy interfer with that runner?

 

Lots, on the genIII lower, it would alomost be complelt blocked, IIRC on the genII runner, it takes between half and three quarters of the runner.

 

hey six shooter i just mocked up that manifold and dizzy on my engine.it looks like i can mill away 1/8th of the backside of the manifold/runner and it will fit.(very tightly) but it will fit.given the wall of the runner is thick enough to machine it that far,but the runner wall seems to be about .250 thick,im gonna try to machine off about .150 and see how well it works out later today when i have free time

 

I woiuldn't even bother with that genII intake.

As I mentioned the ports are quite different than the genIII, so flow and transistions will be poor at best.

That intake is SO resetrictive that it is believed to be more of a problem with the genII engine making power than the heads. Just take a look at that #6 runner you propose to cut down, it's bottle necked already, in comparison to the other runners.

I'd rather continue with the custom intake plates than try and adapt a genII intake to work with the genIII heads.

 

i forgot to update ya, i milled the back of the manifold and the dizzy droped right in. didnt cut away any of the runner internally.
now with that said i threw the intake back in the bridport and proceded to mill the whole middle out.the only thing thats left is the side pieces were it bolts to the head.
i did this cause i figured it be easy then finish machining my plates.im still doing the full custom intake.im just gonna use the 2 sides i salvaged from the gen 2 manifold
pics will be posted tommorow cause i didnt bring my camera to work with me today

ps u were right about the restrictive part,half way down the runner in the lim they necked down then back to fullsize again

 

Have you checked the port matching issues yet?

You'd be far better off to do what you did with the genII intake to a genIII intake to match your heads.

I have considered this idea, but wanted to keep the fuel injector bungs in place, where they were to use the OEM fuel rail, until I discovered that the OEM fuel rail, interferes with where the dizzy would be, so I scrapped that idea, I'll modify a dizzy and then know for sure if I get a gain from the dizzy or not like I suspect I will over my DIS set-up.

Odd, that you were able to get the dizzy to fit anyway, I know when I first started mocking up my hybrid build for Jimmy I tried the same thing and needed to cut much more away (using the genII LIM), and also the bottle neck turned me off the genII design. I had a bunch of gen III top ends around (small port 3100) and decided to use them instead, and was pleased with the results. Seemed to work much nicer to me than what my genII engines were like.

 

started with this

and ended up with this









still lots of material to remove before im ready to start fabing runners and such.ill post more pics as prgress continues

 

Looking good, dave. It seems like your moving pretty fast on this job!
I see you mocked up the dizzy already, but from the pics it looks like the rotor cap is going to rub?

 

nope i had the cap on it,it just clears i milled just over .150 from the back of the manifold
oh and btw six i have no port alignment issues im using ported gen 2 heads

 

Also forgot to mention, I have access to a cnc mill, Although shipping might be a problem. Do you have access to a reg manual mill, cause it works just as good (specially if your not a programer).

 

yeah i work in a family owned racecar/machine shop. i have access to just about anything i need,just wish he had cnc stuff lol

all the stuff i cut out was done in the bridgeport mill, i set the machine on Kill and went to town removing material,now that im getting it almost down to what i want i have to take my time and be carefull lol

btw sixshooter how did u mount the accesorys with the aluminum heads,the bolt hole sin the heads dont line up with the stuff from the original serp setup.worst comes to worse ill just modify the stuff i have to work,if i cant just get some brackets from the jy