Whats your opinion on the 82-84 2.8L's, like are they good bad okay and if there bad or okay what could be changed to make them good? On my carfax it shows mine has 200K and from working on it the past year I can tell some of the stuff has been in there for some time even original so I don't think it has been rebuilt, I would say thats pretty good.

 

The early 60*'s had small main journals. If taken care of, a motor will last a long time. My personal best was 289k out of a 4.3. I had a pickup that had 400k, but wasn't the origional motor.

 

yeah they are pretty good motors. like firstfirebird said if you take care of it it will last. mine always ran strong. but for a performance motor i spent more money then i should have on it and didnt see the improvement i wanted to so now im putting in my 350. but it was def fun to build it up. if only i used the nitrous....

 

I know the feeling. I was just looking at the Firebird and thinking about pulling the pan again to throw another bearing in it, just for one more ride since the motor is going and I'm replacing it with a 3.4. I also sold the turbo pipes, and it's going to be a couple of months before it's back on the road

 

The only one I've ever ran across was a carbed POS that was in more dire need of a rebuild than any other engine in history. Everything possible went wrong with this motor. I seriously think it might actually have been made by Ford, just because it's so severely broken.

 

The early 2.8s were weak. The only bad thing about the newer 2.8s is its a pain in the but to get down to the heads. I was thinking about a carb swap but it's too much work just to make the engine simpler to work on.

 

It's funny you say that. The 300k mile truck I has was an F250, and my current F150 has 185k and will spank a V6 Fbody. It will even outrun my Excursion V10, my wifes BMW 325, but it won't beat the Navigator or the Firebird with the turbo. The problem I have found in Fords are the trannys.

 

The problem I find with Fords is that I hate driving them. I learned on a Tahoe and Silverado and went and got an Explorer for my first car. It was a nice truck but I was too used to a Chevy, then I got the Camaro and was back at home.

 

Well you are comparing apples to oranges. Drive a Explorrer, then go to a Trail Blazer. They feel more alike. I just feel like I'm dragging my booty on the ground when I am in the Bird. All the other vehicles weigh over 2.5 tons and would crush a sports car if it got under any of them (except the Bimmer)

 

I guess that I just favor the Chevy's because of how they drive, just feels more natural for me. Ford's are great cars, just don't like how they feel.

 

Don't rebuild a 60 degree that's older than 1987; that's my opinion.

If you're gonna rebuild a V6 for your car, get an 87 or newer V6 and then put your carburetor stuff back on it.

You asked for opinions, right?

While you're at it, put in a 700r4 from an 87 or newer car as well...

 

I only like their trucks. Actually I got Fords because I got good deals on them (same with the BMW). The only payment we have is on the Navigator, but it's a 2002 and it's for sale I'll take $15k for it.

 

Sure, they run strong, until they break. Every Ford I've come across in my life has seemed to wear more seriously and faster than any Chevy I've dealt with.

 

i got stuck driving a 1987 for ranger for a while, what a POS. the horn finally started working after some guy cut me off and i beat the steering wheel center a few times... i guess i cleaned off the contacts. the "ABS" was so slow i would have been better off just pumping the brakes myself. man i hated that car.

as for 2.8s my 86 2.8 has 60K on a rebuild (claimed rebuilt by prior owner) and the oil stays clean until about 2K after each oil change. i like it. i just squeezed 28 MPG on a trip from Portland to Klamath falls and back. (northern Oregon to southern Oregon). the chasis of the car just hit 170K.

 

Isnt it possible to bolt up a 4.3 or is that a differnt generation of V-6? Hell to be honest I would plop in a 3.8 S/C . I have long dreamed of a Supercharged T-5 3.8 3rd gen. And since the Throttle body would be at the firewall you could use the vent behind the hood as your air intake for constant cold air. I had a 97 Grand Prix GTP and lemme tell ya, hot air KILLS the 3.8s power. First 10 minutes out with her she was a beast, after that...I just drove home haha.

 

The 3.8 and 4.3 are 90* motors, the 2.8-3.4 are 90* motors. The trannys won't bolt up and it would be a pain to swap in a 90* motor. It would be like doing a V8 swap, everything has to be changed. It would be better to buy a 4th gen if you want to get a 3.8.

 

Not entirely true. The SeriesII 3800 will bolt to the tanny because it uses the small corp pattern (60*).

A complete donor 4th gen would be the easiest way.

 

And man you aint kidding. I love my Tbird,one sweet smooth ride but I'm affraid to modify it anymore since ford was not only cheap enough to detune the auto Turbo Coupes 35hp because of the missing WCT5, but they put a A4LD behind an engine with sooooo much potential (2.3 turbo) with a tranny that is such trash. Ford should be ashamed of themselves for that one. What I wouldnt give to get my hands on the person who designed that piece of trash (A4LD=garbage x10!!!!).

Yeah I could swap out whats left of it I guess,but do I really wanna go through having to remove gobs of interior+typical tranny swap stuff?.... Not sure yet. Atleast they got the rest of the car right! (love that car!fat but once @ full boost you know it!).

 

I think thats what my monte carlo has

 

The 80's Carlos came with a 3.8, it's a different engine than the 3800SeriesII. The II bolts to the small pattern tranny, the 3.8 uses a 90* tranny.

 

He's talking about a '00 Monte Carlo. If that car has a 3.8, it's a 3800.

A 1981 Monte Carlo could have a chevy 3.8, which is a smaller 4.3.

 

Just realized that when I looked at the sig.

No a 3.8 is a Buick fireball minus 2cyls, and the 4.3 is a 350 minus 2cyls.

I thought the newer Carlos came with 3400's, maybe 3400 and 3800? I just sold a set of heads from one (3400).

 

A Buick 3.7 liter (225 c.i.d.) is a fireball minus 2, sort of; A 3.8 is a little something different...

It has the block width of the 300/340 small block V8; it has the bore of a 350 Buick with the stroke of the 300, or a 300 bore/stroke with a .050 overbore

Anyway, all that changed when it went even fire after 1977; add a 120 degree firing pattern like an in-line 6 and you have one great engine

 

The 90's had the 3400 and in 2000 they had the 3800 but I think there is some new 2000+ montes that have the 3400. I don't know much on monte's but I know plenty on the 3rd gen fbodys

 

That happened with the 60* motor also , but with a 60* bank and 6cyl the firing is even more symetrical, hence the ability to rev.

I just got a set of heads from a 2004 that has a 3500 in it.

I thought that GM was getting rid of the 90* V6 platform and concentrating on the 60* engine. The 60* is now up to 3900 and is able to pump out 285hp.

 

Not enough displacement, yet... (for 60*)

What runs a 3900? My mom and sister both have 3500s in their 07 Pontiacs. I haven't seen that one...

 

I believe that it is only in a Cadillac model. I'm not sure of the specific car but I am pretty certain that GM only has it in one car.

 

It's called the Global motor. 06 Impala had them...


The production 3900 now produce nice numbers, 240hp/240tq with a plateau for the curve.

http://60degreev6.com/showthread.php...highlight=3900
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Value_engine

but I guess we are talking about a 2.8 in this thread...

 

Yep were supposed to talk about the 2.8, the grandfather or the 60* tree

 

You can probably sum up from the above chatter that you may have an undesirable starting point for performance. Some guys seem to do okay in stock form with a good maintenance plan but when upgrades begin, so does trouble.

The long block should be changed to make it good. This means 87 and up 60*V6 with your carb setup on it.

I've personally seen tons of 85 and older 2.8s broken and scrapped. The 87 and newer engines seem to last forever.

How's that for getting back to topic?

 

Just breaking stones, but good advice on the 87 and newer. Journals are larger and the heads better.

I would love to see a Global motor go in an f-body and spank some of those 3800II's, the closest I've sen to date is a 4th gen w/ a 3400.

 

hey i have a 4.3 vortec siting for my camaro i have a 3.4 or 3.1 in my 92 camaro and i can bet 5.0 all day ok back up to the ford thing i got a 5.0 mustaing and it didnt last a day 1.000 than i got a v6 camro rs 500.00 i have had it for a year

 

eeeeeeeee

That's what's cool about America!

I would love to see more Dinosaur 90*V6 swaps and see them tear up the V8 cars!!

I don't like "global" anything! I really think the 60* engines face limitations that 90* engines don't have. Or inline 6's for that matter. When the banks are tucked together more closely doesn't that limit the amount of stroke you can possibly get more than a 90*? Something about crank pin to block interference??

The reason I bring this up is that I am an old school "no replacement for displacement" kind of guy - even with alternative engines. I'm certainly not saying that I like 350s better than 6 cylinder engines just because they are bigger. I am just saying that if you are going "alternative," such as six cylinder power, then you need to get all of your advantages out in front before you begin your journey. If I start a Buick V6 swap, it doesn't matter really which one I put in first because I am laying the ground work to upgrade easily in the future. The 60* is just not easily upgraded enough yet for my liking; the easy to get displacements only go to 3.4 (versus 4.1 Buick or 4.3 Chevy) and the larger displacements are expensive to get (3500 and 3900). For the money, do you get any real advantage of using a 3500 versus a 3400?

I guess I'm just that way!!!

 

Yes the advantages of the engine went up in every generation of 60*. GM has really put a lot of effort into the 60* and the parts interchange as good as SBC's - from 1986 until the 3900 (the fist time they moved the bore spacing). Actually the FWD stuff got more advanced because the RWD stopped production, but again there is no reason you can't use newer parts on them. How about this for a 3500 swap? He is N/A and gets over 7k rpm, watch the tach...
http://media.putfile.com/Quick-Drive-in-the-3500Z

Why do you think all the manufacturers are going to a 60* platform? 60* to a V6 is like 90* to a V8, it's all about symmetry. The 3500 has been out since 2004 and are now readily available.

N/A the 3800II has only reached 200hp.

Here is the difference between the iron head 3.1/3.4 and the 2000+ 3100/3400...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...re-3400-a.html
I soon will have pics of the difference from the 3400 to 3500 heads, the 3500 heads flow even better.


Are you using a SeriesII, or an older 3.8?
----------
And no, the angle is not limiting the stroke, like every "v" engine, it's the ratio. The 60* always has near the perfect 1.75:1 ratio on the bore and stroke.

 

I will be in "dinosaur" mode because I don't like the series II all that much. I will actually be using an older front wheel drive block with a rear wheel drive crank and front cover to allow me to use a distributor. It's easier to run our V6 computers that way than to use a 3CI Buick ignition and I don't want to swap the ECM. The point of my next project will be more budget guy "use what you have around" techniques.

I will start with a 3.0 liter displacement using the factory 2.8 fuel injection setup and then I will upgrade. Eventually the engine will be 3.8 (or larger) V6 but still running the stock computer, with a few upgrades of course!

The info on computer tuning at thirdgen.org is just priceless. I will be setting up to burn chips and all that. I just want to show that there is a lot of potential in our V6 cars and that if you are willing to put in the elbow grease you can have a great time and not break the bank.

I did it with V8s already!!

 

ok i give up on the 4.3 its died will lets see i have a 3.1or 3.4 any one know were i can git any air intake parts

 

i'd swap in a 3.4 from a '95 ish Camaro...


then slap on a 3500 top end, convert to DIS add in a mild cam and be ready to smoke the tires...

 

^^^ That's where I am going. I will be updating my "finally got the entire 3400 top end" thread with the 3500 updates.