cool z

keep the totaly stock v6 that i have with 130k miles on it and rebuild it and try to make it pull more power out of it or should i swap for another v6 or get a v8

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

Get a 3.4 out of a 4th gen and buid that up.

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

It all depends on what you want. I would say keep a V6 (3.1 or 3.4)

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

3.4 is the cheapest and easiest way to go. you can get one out of a junkyard for probably $400-$700 with decent mileage on it yet. my suggestion is to regasket it, swap your stuff over and drop it in.

a rebuild at that mileage is gonna be indepth, and swapping to a v8 is gonna be just as much money, but more work due to suspension work up front and fuel pump, etc etc etc. swap in a 3.4 for under $1000 easily.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I got a used 3.4 shortblock delivered from NY to FL for $400. That's what I'm basing my build on.

If you do all the work yourself, it's not that expensive to rebuild. Grab another JY motor that is runnning, and rebuild it while babying yours.

DaSkinnyGuy

LS1 it or drive the 2.8L until it doesnt go anymore than LS1 it

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I like Buick V6 engines, myself...

but I have to agree that a 3.4 swap is the best "near stock" upgrade that you can do on a budget.

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

Its more like the 3.4 is the easiest swap for more displacement. Its also the cheapest swap for power. I would love to put a 3800 II into the car but thats more money that I don't have and more down time so a 3.4 is the best.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

A v8 swap is much more involved, but you'll have more power immediately available. A 3.4 block swap is relatively simple but won't offer as much power. Both can give you respectable output, but only the v6 will give you a ~50/50 weight balance which = much better handling. Up to you.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

That's why I really am liking the Buick V6 (and even Chevy 90 degree V6) engine swaps more and more. I am one of the big believers in "no replacement for displacement" but a heavy engine in the front does drop the road handling characteristics off by quite a bit.

If you have the money for lots of aluminum parts, then a V8 becomes a wonderful option. On my budgets, I think the readily available GM V6 pool out there is becoming more and more likely!!

cool z

well i was thinking and and i am on a budget and down the road it would be better with gas now days i want to go with a v6..but what would be better for a nice and soft ride but has lots of power?

3.4 still?

unless i do a bunch of pracs studys and find a nice ls1

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I had close to 200k on my 3.1 before it was removed.

Aslong as you do general maintenance and dont beat the **** out of it, it should have plenty of life left.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, my 90 3.1 had 248k miles on it when I sold it to a friend for his old S-10. It was a great engine, it just didn't MOOVE..... you know?

Anyway, I think a larger displacement V6 is great. 3.4 is not big enough for me, though. It's all about what YOU want, not what we say.

I like Buick, some guys like Chevy. Some guys here are using front wheel drive 3500 parts on their 3.4 blocks; we'll see where they get. Anyway, what do you want to do? How much work are you able to do yourself? How much experience do you have? These are the questions that you must ask to figure out which engine is right for you.

If you are brand new, then this is a no brainer. You need a 3.4 from a 4th gen. When you put it in, you will experience your most basic swap. After that you will reap the rewards and then decide if you want more or not...

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I get tired of hearing 'those 'lil 60 degree motors are junk'. I had 250k on mine before I did a mild rebuild and it was still running strong.

A 3.4 sounds like the right swap for you. Basically all you do is swap everything from the heads up (and the dizzy) from the 2.8 to the 3.4 block. It runs perfect with the stock ecm. You could use the 3.4 intake manifold if you want, but you'd have to swap to a '730 ecm and do a little custom wiring.

Or you could swap in a '165 ecm and have the ability to actually tune it. You'll get nowhere with the stock ecm. I plan to do a writeup on this swap a little later, after I test it a little more to make sure everything's working correctly. Dataloggs look good.

nixon5

ya im thinking about this swap my self. Just need to find a 3.4 in good condition. I am a beginner with cars so i think this 3.4 swap can be a good learning experience.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

The entire engine from the LIM to the pan will bolt right in. No need to even seperate the heads from the block. 3.4, 3.1 and 2.8 heads are identical - except for the carb 2.8 heads (everything still bolts up, but they had smaller valves)

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

like I said, from the heads up. Not including. But then again why buy extra heads if you don't need to.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

1. So that you can drop the long block in and make the swap faster.

2. So that you have another set of heads to port/polish while you drive your car!

Especially for a guy who's on his first swap, this is a great plan.

backgammon7

why not go with a 4.3L v6?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

That's just as involved as putting a v8 in. The tranny won't bolt up, motor mounts are different etc etc.

Kevman

I'm just gonna drive my 2.8 until she dies, then swap in a V8. You can get a bunch of power from a V6, don't get me wrong. But modifying a 350 is a hell of a lot cheaper then modifying a 2.8 for the amount of horsepower. Especially since you can buy an already built 350, fresh out of the crate with over 400 horse under 3500$. It all depends what you're in to though.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Actually only one. To my knowledge there is no 3500/3.4 hybrids but many 4th gens have done the 3400 top swap. Six_Shooter built a 3.1 hybrid that made 385hp with boost and ran 13's in his Jimmy. Russel made 191RWHP in his 94 Camaro with the stock ECM (OBD1.5 no tuning), and the heads were stock. Seems like more 4th gens do it, I would imagine because it's easier with the DIS already set up.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Well, I try to always mention your handle so that they can search out your work.

We will all be much better off with the 60 degree quest when you get your hybrid up and running.

The more I see, the more I think I would just get a front wheel drive engine and ECM, and fab the motor mounts. I mean, I've put Buick and Olds engines in these cars and it can't be much more complicated.

Kevman

Other than the position of the starter.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

That can be overcome with a tubular k-member. I don't think the webbing in passenger side of the block can be drilled/taped for it safely, but Fiero guys have gotten away with it. The reson the starter is in the wron position is because the oil filter resides in the same place.
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There is a guy with a Grand Am 3400 in his 94 Camaro (also boosted), and it's not that bad of a swap if you can affored the $400-500 tubular k mentioned above.

There will be a 3500 (or 3900) going in the Bird eventually. Perhaps after this motor is running and boosted it will go up for sale

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I have drilled and tapped an 89 Firebird 2.8 for the starter on the other side to help a friend put it in his Citation.. it worked out just fine, but that was a rear drive block, not front wheel drive.

The starter being on the wrong side is not an issue that can't be overcome regardless, and I'm not ever going to pay money for a tubular crossmember. I will cut/flip/box/ whatever I have to do to make it fit. I don't have any limits on modification, only limits on what I will buy!

Keep up on that firebird; inquiring minds are waiting!

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

IMO $400 for a tubular k-member built and coated is an excellent price. Also think about the weight it will shave off The aluminum top end is already 40+ lighter then the iron counterparts. Yes I weighed them, the aluminum top end weighs 41lbs, the iron weighs 85lbs and IIRC the tubular k is going to drop another 65lbs.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I have much more time on my hands than money, and I'm really into the budget aspect of "making things work."

I'm not talking about hack jobs; I like to make things as functional and "correct" as I can while I do it.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Why spend $400 on a k-member just to fit a fwd block in? Just pull a 3.4 block from a 4th gen and slap a 3400 top end on. Already a dis setup. Easiest way to switch to a 3x00 top end in my oppinion. I'm going to put together my own turbo 2.8/3400 combo as soon as I have the cash. Which will probably be never too many dreams and too little money. I'm going to fab up my own intake and exhaust systems though.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

Because the FWD block is better

Better oiling, Roller cam, etc....

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Yea, 3 oil galleries instead of 2, but a 3.4 block is just so much easier in my mind.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

And a roller cam, roller lifters, 3500's have bigger rod journals, etc etc.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Well of course the 3500 is better, no arguing there but only if you have the money for it. And the tools to do it. We don't all have acess to a shop, now do we firebird .

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Yes, I have access to a machine shop. Everything I build for my car is in my driveway with the exception of the shortblock. The only reaon the block is at the shop is because it was cheaper to freight it there and I'll just bring it home to install it

Does it look like a shop where I ported the heads?...

http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=100_3319.jpg

I bought an entire 3500 for less then $500, and the 3.4 shortblock for $400, crank and bearings were $100 gsakets $150. This is all JY/"swap meet" stuff bought a little at a time. I just wait for good deals to come along. With 4 kids and a big house/mortgage, trust me when I tell you I don't have a lot of money. Time is also a big commodity here with a family this size. Patience is the only way this build is getting done. I also work on other people's cars to pay for the project, but very little has actually come out of pocket. Seems like after completing one project, it's time to move on to the next and sell the old one at a fair price to help with the next (and give a good deal to someone who doesn't have the tools/time/ability to do it themselves).

I'm sort of an information junkie, lol. Just trying new things out to see what happens and would like to inspire the other v6 owners.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Amen! This country has a one track mind set on v8's.

My computer's a piece of crap, I couldn't open the pic. The point I'm trying to get across is that most v6 owners are either kids or don't give a damn, so they probably don't see the point in $400 for a k-member and $500 for an engine they probably can't install themselves anyway (although my local yard quoted me $150 for a 3.4 shortblock ).

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Click to enlarge.

That's my driveway, the head is on a plastic sawhorse. Even the lawnmower is in the background, lol.

There's a lot of fast v6's out there, just not many 3rd gens (or 60*'s for that matter). Right now the record for a v6 fbody is an 8 second Firebird with a 3800 in it and two turbos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0Wp1MbNp-8


That's a good deal on the 3.4 if it's rebuildable. The one I got came out of a running car, and didn't need a crank, but I got a good deal on the .010" over Clevite77 bearings and .010" underground crank.

SoSoFresh_SS

Dont mean to hi-jack, but with my carbed 2.8 on my 84 'Bird will the 3.4 bolt right in w/o major modifications? I dont plan on swapping out my 2.8 for the sake of keeping it original. What can I do to give it some new life, its been sitting since '96, but it runs. I dont need to be super fast I just wanna be reliable. I really dont know much about the 2.8 v6.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

The 3.4 longblock is a direct replacement. Just transfer the 2.8 parts over to it.

Read the sticky at the top of the v6 page