I mean, I've done the tune-up stuff. Checked the timing and set it to base of 10*. I know the car has high mileage and it's only a V6... but c'mon! I'm thinking its multiple things like fuel injectors, timing chain, etc... Possibly the cat is clogged up as well since it is stock (15 years old). The injectors more than likely need replacing anyways with some Accels at least. I've checked the timing chain by turning it and the rotor button turned pretty much as soon as I turned the crank. I heard you can see how much slack is in it by turning it the other way. I usually get about 20 mpg, so I would'nt think it would be compression. If it were bad it would seem my mpgs would suck. Yooz guys know what I'm talkin' 'bout?

Ken

 

If youre tired of losing to 4 cylinders, than just dont race them. The cars youre probubly racing probubly have newer technology and higher HP. I would start with the exhaust and upgrade the cat and put on a cat-back.

 

I agree. get rid of the restrictive parts.

 

Get full exhaust, drop in a 3.4 and a turbo then show them whos boss. At least get a new timing chain and do exhaust to get alot of power back. Might as well do a cam also if you are doing a timing chain.

 

no offense but what did you expect from a 3.1 v6?

 

Stock they run 17.1secs in the quater a civic does it in 16.9sec. They only came with 140hp and 180tq. I have seen a video of a guy dynoing his 3.1L it made like 105hp stock and 151tq. So even though its a firebird its not fast because 3.1L's dont have much power. 0-60 is like 9.5secs it tops out at 119mph because of the rev limiter.

 

I believe they came with 140hp at the crank.

 

Go to the newer generation top-end setup. The new 3400/3500 will BREATHE, compared to a stock 3.1. Headers and a cam with the appropriate tuning will wake up your 3.1 as well.

 

As good as that setup is, some people don't have the resources or know-how to swap to DIS.

 

^^that and it requires a piston swap.


And not all V6 owners are as crazy as some of us........

 

^I'm guility too. FirstFirebird is the craziest of us all.

 

All of you are forgetting other things as well. Weight, wind resistance, tire friction, age, gears, etc.

It would take alot of work for your heavy car with stock 140hp to keep up with a lighter 200hp FWD car. Just part of life.

Just be happy your in a nice looking car.

 

I think he means 105hp @ the wheels.

Call it crazy, but the only way to get any repectable power out of these engines is by ditching the iorn heads (besides n20 or boost). They're just too big a restriction. Just to give you an idea of how bad they are compared to the fwd heads, the exhaust on 3400 heads outflow the iorn head's intake ports.

3400 int -> 210cfm
3400 exh -> 140cfm

Iron int -> 120cfm
Iron exh -> 100cfm

 

lol Damn imagine if somone made better heads that can be bolted right on that would be great..

 

The issue isn't the heads so much as the intake manifold. Fwd intakes aren't designed for use with a distributor so you have to switch to a dis setup, which means changing the crank and block to use a crank sensor without fabricating anything.

You could bolt fwd heads/intake to a 3.1 short block (2.8's wouldn't work, no valve clearance), but c/r would be ~11/1 with .06" head gaskets which means you'd either need race gas or a cam with a late intake closing point. And the dis swap...

 

Got news, the 2.8 and 3.1 have the SAME bore. I thought both engines had flattop pistons without valve reliefs.

 

The valve clearance issue is with the pistons, not the bore. 3400/3100 heads are the same heads, fyi. The 3.1 has dished pistons because of the increased stroke. Otherwise c/r would've been too high.

 

Funny thing is my RWD 3.1 has flattop pistons in it.

 

IIRC the aluminum heads have larger combustion chambers than the iron heads.

 

Fast355- Where'd you get your engine? 3.1's came with dished pistons. Borrowed this from one of firsfirebird's threads. ->

2.8rs- the aluminum heads have a smaller combustion chamber.

Edit- hold on, the stupid picture didn't show up.

 

Its the other way around, the cast-iron heads have huge chambers and the aluminum heads have tiny chambers. The tiny chambers go with a dished piston.

 

Early 90s Isuzu Trooper or Rodeo, IIRC. I know it was something Isuzu and it had a 4L30E transmission behind it. It was a 3.1 TBI out of the box.

 

I knew that it was one way or the other. Thanks for correcting me.

 

There's your answer. The isuzu engines were built a little different. The pic I was trying to post is on the 'stroking a 60*' thread, couldn't get it to work for some reason.

 

where did ken3983 go?

hello? anyone out there?

Anyway, I used to smack imports around with my 90 3.1 blackbird. Over 200k miles. You need to rip the entire exhaust off the car; all of it. Run the pace setter (I think) 2.8 camaro headers, have the exhaust shop make you a real y-pipe. Mine was 2 1/4 in and 2 1/2 out. High flow (or gutted) cat, and then a V8 exhaust system. Mine was a salvaged flowmaster system for an 86 T/A. Then you gut your air filter can and run a K&N type filter in the can or that type where the can used to be. Direct cold air from under the car to the air filter area. Cut the bottom, use some junkyard ducting, but do something.

Next, you need some 3.73 rear gears.

I got almost all of my parts used, so it doesnt' have to cost a lot.. It just takes more time if you do it that way.

Now, go eat some rice, man!!

 

The Jeep engines and the Marine engines were built a little different too.

 

Heh, the thread's rambled on without him. The exhaust's definately the best place to start. The stock 'log' manifolds are about as crappy as it gets.

I never considered using some of the odd parts that came in exported motors. Come to think of it, I think the tbi jeep manifolds are aluminum. Might make an interesting project for someone.

 

The pacesetter y-pipe is pretty nice for converging together. I have pacesetters now that will be replaced with hedman LTs with the new motor.

 

S-10 2.8 TBI intakes were aluminum, too. At least the ones in Ohio were!

I didn't know pacesetter made a y-pipe; do you have a pic? I got the headers second hand (surprise, surprise) and they didn't come with that...

 

The stock 3.1 TBI manifolds were aluminum too, even the FWD minivans.

You can bore the 3.1 TBI manifolds openings to the same size as a SBC V8 TBI unit and get 500 CFM of flow into the top-end of the manifold. Then work the ports on the manifold and heads.

 

I don't have a pic of mine but it looks very similar to this one:

 

Can't say I've paid much attention to the tbi manifolds but I thought most were iron. I think the y-pipe comes with pacesetter's headers so it's actually a pretty good deal.

 

WHOA!!!....did'nt think I'd get these many responses. I'm sorry for not replying until today..but my friend was killed by a drunk driver. I've known my friend for over 25 years and now he's gone. Been depressed lately. The SORRYA** drunk driver survived and is only getting a short stay in jail. HE TOOK A LIFE! Maybe he'll think about what he did and blow his brains out. Anyway...thanks for the replies. I guess I should have started to say in the post that I was'nt racing 4 Cyls... it seems thay can ride my a** even from pulling from a stop sign. I'm just lacking power thats all. The thing IS 15 yrs. old anyway. Just thought I'd have more power than I'm getting. I can't even spin the tires from a dead stop.

Ken

 

Damn, that's tough. It's bad enough to lose a friend, letalone to a drunk driver. All I can say is sorry.

Even from the factory with an open diff the 2.8's/3.1's couldn't do a burnout. Smog era motors are choked to death by the restrictive manifolds used and the rwd 2.8's seemed to get the short end of the stick even for smog equipment. You could always put a little bleach on the rear tires to get a nice smokey burnout.

 

My STOCK S10 4x4 S10 Blazer 2.8 TBI could do a burn-out with a G80 rear end, thats right, BOTH rear wheels.

 

Along with these other ideas, try dumping some weight out of that land-barge! Lets face it, our cars are HEAVY! Get the lead out (litteraly) and you might notice some improvement.

 

I hate to tell you kid but tbi 305 rs could hardly do a burnout trust me i had one for my first car. I tell you what though 3.8's could kick my but all day long in the quarter but have one follow you through a set of curves and see who comes out on top. That's where third gens really shine. From the factory anyway.

 

I never had a problem getting a 305 TBI to burn BOTH tires.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Oi_n0goatA8

 

I think they ment just smashing the gas from a stop no powerbraking.

 

I'd probably follow the advice of everyone else here. Exhaust, etc.

The post about the newer car with newer technology is true too. My daily driver is an '06 Nissan Sentra Spec-V. It's got the Altima 2.5 4 cylinder with a close ratio 6 speed manual rated at 175hp. It does the quarter mile damn close to my stock '89 IROC 350!

I wonder if anybody has ever put a 3.8L out of a Grand Prix in a 3rd gen with a bigger supercharger or turbo'd it?

 

is this a daily driver or do you have another vehicle?
if its your only one then you can cam the he11 out of it the throw a intake and vortec procharger on it and you will be in the ball park of most 305's(not tpi or L69).

But if you can park it for a while then what you can do is a engine swap(but dont forget the downshift cable) inside joke, but i would recommend as far as V6's the 3.8, or 4.3. But if you dont mind the gas mileage then you can get a small block chevy.

 

All of these would require a transmission swap as well, just so you know.

 

whats the weight of them

 

i think a nicely built 3.4 can do a nice amount of damage

 

Ok, heres where to start. I hate to be the guy to say it, but do a search first off. there are millions of threads on "how do i mod my car" "how can i go faster" etc etc. (although i do prefer our old search engine, not the new one)

ill give you a quick rundown. do the TomP tune up before anything else (search will find it, it should be the V6 3rd gen bible). then start modding. go w/ exhaust, open up the air intake (K&N, WAI, something). weight reduction is the best free way to start though. get rid of anything you dont need/want. depending on where you live, ditch the smog pump, A/C if it had it, and any other crap in the car.

there are other bolt ons you can do, a search, or even check out my cardomain, ive done most of em. once youve done the free/cheap stuff, youre gonna have to get a lil bit internal and more expensive. roller rockers, cam, head/intake work, gears, trans, the list can go on. this whole thread all depends on a few things; how much money you have, and what your mechanical skills are if you dont wanna spend too much. telling us that first off will really help all of us tell you where your next step is.

good luck!!!!!

 

Well... I'm pretty much mechanically inclined. I built computers for 14 years , so that kinda helps me mentally. Money is'nt a big issue, it's the time. You see, my wife works 2nd shift hours and I work 1st shift hours. We have an 11 year old son who is no problem, but I have to keep an eye (it seems constantly) on my 2 year old daughter. The only time I have to do anything is usually on vacation. My next vacation is'nt until Feb. next year. Knowing my luck, its gonna be cold. I noticed kinda a "whirring" sound from the hood. I'm thinking it might be a bad ps pump or alternator or something. I also noticed the serpentine belt back and forth while I was looking at the alternator pulley as a point of reference. I just replaced the tensioner pully a couple of months ago. The alternator is new but that don't mean it ain't good. The ps pump might me putting a strain on the whole engine if its going south. I'm gonna take off the belt and spin the pulleys and see what I hear. And then get a rubber hose and put to my ear to try to isolate the "whirring" sound if possible. If the timing chain is bad, it might affect drivability in general. THANKS for all the repsonses. They at least give a place to start from.

Ken

 

3300-3500 depending on options. Check out my vb garage if you need a quick list of stuff to strip. I'm at ~3000lb with driver.

 

ACTUALLY, a FWD 3.8 will NOT require a transmission swap. The 4.1/4.5/4.9 cadillac can also be bolted up to a 60*V6 700r4.

 

As in dohc fwd caddy v8's? Interesting...

 

As in pushrod FWD Caddy V8s. The Northstar and Shortstar have the same bellhousing pattern, but the starter sits in the wrong place (under the intake).

The 1998ish Camaros with the 3.8 used a 4L60E with the 60*V6 bellhousing pattern.