Does anyone know where the crank and cam sensors are on the 3.1l v6? hopefully you have pics even? Also the location of the pin outs to the two sensors to the computer, thanks.

 

There are none on the 3.1, it uses a distributor and MPFI. If you are talking about a FWD motor or the 3.4, then the cam sensor is located just above the timing cover on the horizontal part of the block between the heads. The crank sensor is on the side of the block near the oil filter adapter, and the reluctor ring is actually the center of the crank.

 

Crankshaft (RPM) sensor is an integral part of the EST system and is not external on 3.1's....

 

Im guessing that the AEM Fuel/Ignition Controller is out of the question to control my fuel and ignition for my turbo project since it has wires going to these sensors. Off hand does anyone know a f/i contrller that I can use with the 3.1l? I dont want to attempt te whole computer reprogramming if I can find a F/IC

 

Look into the MegaSquirt, Dave tells me it's very easy to tune, as well as self tune....

 

Actually it's not that much different than using TunerPro for the stock ECM either :P

I've checked out both the MS and TunerPro software and decided to stay with the stock ECM that's already wired.

 

So you did the whole eeprom and .bin modifying? Is that what the tunerpro is all about?

 

I'm actually swapping to the GN ECM myself when the engine goes in, but from what I've experienced w/the Megasquirt though, it seems like a very simplified system. He should consider it, especially being a newbie to tuning....

 

Yeah, either way you look at it, they're not that far off. You either have to do some wiring, or learn to burn chips (or use an emulator).

Excellegions, no, I just got the burner and ALDL cable and am about to start messing with it. I have so much to do on the car to get the motor in and everything looking pretty that I haven't even plugged the stuff into my computer

 

I spoke with AEM, they stated I will be able to control my ignition by only tapping into the crank sensor wire that should be in the distributor. Do you guys know which wire it is in the distributor?

 

Yes,


Take a look at this diagram
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/GM_7pinHEI.htm

About halfway down the page there is a pinout for the 7 pin module, with the labelled 8 pin diagram right under it.

The RPM reference signal goes into pin 24 on the megasquirt.

 

u can use that aem unit but i would deff go with the megasquirt over the aem

a simplified fuel only install will take about 2 hours to wire up,to go full ignition and fuel control should only take about 4 hours

 

^ That's why I recommended the MegaSquirt for the beginner, they are very thorough with their descriptions. That schematic is absolutely correct, as terminal R is most definitely the Crankshaft Position RPM sensor....

 

check this thread i started and still need to finish
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...quirt-1-a.html

 

This thread that you started maybe the very thing I needed, the megasqirt seamed so much more complicated than the AEM, so I was looking for the simpliest way out. Iam really glad to see that you're refering to the 2.8 and the 3.1 for this install. I will gather the assembled megasquirt system and everything needed to get started. I will be back in a few weeks when I have everything.

 

^ Isn't Forced(First)Firebird selling one....?

 

myself and toehead can lend u all the help u need witht he megasquirt,not to mention the megasquirt forums are a great place to get help along with a wealth of information.

most ppl get discoraged by the fact they have to make the harness,but once u have a basic understanding of it it is not hard at all.

me and rob knocked my install out in a few hours barring some problems with my megasquirt unit.(it was missing 2 resitors in the tach circut)

when u order ur megasquirt order the ms1 v2.2 modified for ignition control dizzy
----------
i forgot about that hit up firstfirebird hes selling one cheap though that one is modified for dis ign should work witht he dizzy though no problems

 

Oh, that was fun....

 

lmao u still have the pics

 

does first firebird have everything I need for the install or just the megasuirt unit? How do I get ahold of him?

 

he has the megasquirt unit u would still have to buy the harness and stuff i listed in my other thread send him a pm

 

Sorry, I need to follow up that thread - it's sold.

 

Well, since he no longer has his, you can get the MS with the version 3.0 PCB. It has a lot of improvements in function and reliability I think you will like

 

yeah but the v3.0 is 120 more assembled but if u got the cash deff go for it

 

Ahhhhhrgh, I was ready to PM you about it too....

 

All I need is to put bigger injectors and deliver more fuel, I have #24 accel injectors, and retard the ignition per pounds of boost, To I really need buy the one that $120 more?

 

It's really up to you. It is a generally nicer product, and has support for ignition control and IAC control without modifications (if you get the MS-II)

 

Anyone have a bootleg laptop for sale?

 

All you need is something in the ~200mhz region.

I have a bunch, and if you were close I would just give you one.

 

That's real nice to know . . . .

So the MS-1 v2.2 would not be able to retard the ignition?

 

It can, but you need to make hardware modifications... The board doesnt support it "from the factory".

Although, if you order one preassembled, they will modify it for you.

 

yeah orderit from the links i posted in my thread and tell the guys exactly what u need it to do and he will ship it to u all setup.

toehead u have any dell laptops ???, i have a 233mhz dell but it only has 32mb of ram and it uses edo ram, ive been looking everywere but noone has any around.if u got some would ya be willing to sell me a stick out of one of them laptops

 

Before you go stripp'n them, how much to send me a machine suitable to program the car with?

 

So let me ask a question in a nutshell, besides the ignition, hooking up the air temp sensor, cool temp sensor, o2 sensor, throttle position sensor, and the fuel injectors to the megasquirt - 1 and the engine can fully operate without the factory ecu, am I correct?

 

Don't forget the MAP sensor, but yes, that sounds about right.

The MS-II will do IAC control as well.

The MS-I needs a PWM idle valve off of a ford to work properly, or you can go without idle control.

 

If I order the pre assembled one after telling them excactly what my engine is, and hook it directly up, it will start the car emediatly before I program anything, right?

 

It may, it may not. Most likely it will.

Theres a whole page on the megamanual telling you exactly how to approach first startup.

I would take a look at the megamanual and get an idea of the steps involved.

 

my ms unit came loaded with a base tune for a small block 350,my car started and idled on it.

i have my old base tune for my na 2.8 and my turbo 2.8, ill be more then happy to share them with you to get u up and running, my 3.1 tune would prolly be to rich in the fuel tables for ya but i can even give u that one to get u up and running

 

There you go! hahah

 

Hey Guys, hope ya'll havn't forgotten about me, Im saving up for the unit, harness, relay board, touchscreen, and injectors. Come up to about $1300, almost there, for now Im working out the bugs to prep the car, couple of questions here . . . . . .

When I run the turbo staight into the intake without the intercooler, I get 11 psi around 5500 rpm, looks like that's the max Im getting from this turbo, since I plugged all the ports to the wastegate. Most likely a better brand turbo will get me more boost, this turbo was a $150 one from ebay, but that's another story. When I route it through the intercooler, I get 5 psi if im lucky. I know that my piping is mainly to blame, yet I also know that it is common to loose boost. Is a low boost application like mine worth intercooling? What is your opinion?

Im also running alittle hot, mostly when I stand still, Im thinking about removing the thermastat and making the fans run constantly. As far as I know, If I remove the thermastat, the engine will run cooler because the water is flowing throught the radiator constantly and the computer will make the engine run alittle richer to try to get the engine to correct operating temperature, plus I will loose the heater option. (Im in florida anyway), Is that the only things that will happen if I remove the thermastat or is there anything else I need to worry about?

 

You can get a set-up to real time tune the OEM ECM for about $400 or so, including buying a new 2 or 3 BAR MAP sensor (the code used will determine which sensor to buy). The OEM GM ECM has more capabilities than the MS as far as emmisions and some sub routines are concerned that help with driveablity and milage.

I'm currently running a 1227749 ECM (From a turbo Sunbird) in my 1973 Datsun 240Z, that has a '81 or '82 Nissan L28 in it with a turbo, and it runs excellant. I'm using code 59 on it. (www.code59.org) I wouldn't even consider using MS in place of this with how well it runs and easily too.

 

I did look into eeprom burning and changing the bin, however Im just not that computer literate. using the pin adapters to read the eprom and pulling the bin file, all that stuff was to much for me to understand.

 

It's really not that difficult.

I find that the only people that do find it difficult are over thinking what has to be done, and not looking at each step indivdually.

You need the same level of "computer literacy" whether you use MS, OEM GM ECM, FAST, SDS, Haltech, AEM, etc. to tune an EFI system.

If using a $20 adaptor to read a bin file is too much, than swapping in a MS or any other non-stock ECM will be way over your head.

You don't need to grab the bin off your existing EPROM anyway, you can down load it or one that is very close from moates.net along with quite a few other sources. Besides that your stock bin will be of no use to you, since it should be an N/A bin and you should swap to a turbo bin, to take advantage of boost controlled timeing and fueling control.

 

What about programmable piggyback systems? Like Greddy or Powerhouse?

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/part...k/MAP_ECU/5360

 

u dont need all that stuff, that touch screen is a 400$ option and is purley cosmetic.the nice thing is u dont need the laptop to make on the fly changes

u also do not need the relay board

just the ms2 unit and the harness all the relays and things u need are already on the car

u shoudl only be spending 450$ tops on the ms unit

also thats all the boost u will get with the ports pluged the wastegate will still open against ex pressure u need a boost control to go more then dbl the wastegates rated opening presure.

say ur wastegate opens at 7 psi with the lines hooked up, now u unplug the lines it will goto aprox 14 psi,

u have the same turbo i currently have on my car, it will hit aprox 28 psi on a 3.1

 

ur flex piping is likley to blame for the presure loss that stuff will not hold presure it will leak, u shoudl lose 1 psi threw the intercooler,but it also depends on were u are grabing the wastegate signal from. best place is the intake manifold and not the turbo outlet,this will make up for any presure loss inside the intercooler.

do not remove the thermostat the water moves threw the radiator to fast to properly cool once the water/coolant reaches a certian temp.
instead install a 160* thermostat and wire the fans to be on all the time.

alls u have to do is cut the wire from the sensor int he head and ground that wire,then anytime u turn the key on the fans will come on

 

I have to update the pics, I have removed all of the flex piping and replaced it with 2.25 stainless steal piping. I will grab pics and post them. I didn't konw that the wastegate could open under regular exhaust pressure, however it makes perfect sence. The wastgate has two ports, one on the top and one on the side, which one gets the boost from the manifold? And can the other por tjust remain open?

Which wire do I ground for the fan? Got alittle confused, be alittle more specific . . . .

You're right, I knew I didn't need the relay board or the touchscreen, I just wanted a cleaner look and not have to go into it often, but I will just go buy the unit and harness. Is DIYautotune the cheapest?

 

diy autotune is dam close u might be able to save 10-30 bucks somewere else.
but diyautotunes customer service is top notch highly recomended vendor

when i did the fan mod i took picks but i dont have them anymore i will get you some pictures tongiht while im at the race track and draw u up a diagram of which wire to cut and ground.

yes a wastegate uses a spring setup to hold the wastegate shut,when it sees boost on the bottom port it pushes up on a diaphram and the spring opening it.

now if u unhook that as u build boost u also build presure inthe ex system when that presure gets high enough it pushes back against the wastegate valve which inturn presses against the spring causing it to open up anyway, it generally takes dbl the rated wastegate spring presure in the ex system to open it

to plumb the wastegate witho8ut a boost controller the line goes to the bottom port and the top port is left open

when u get a boost controller there are 2 diff ways to plumb them some just get spliced into the line on the bottom port and others u tee into the bottom port line and run another line to the top port

 

Ok, Right now Iam getting the boost line not from the manifold but from the turbo compressor housing, I understand that is not a good place because that's not the boost pressure in the manifold. Since I dont have a controller yet, If I, for now, run that line from the compressor to the bottom port of the wastgate, and leave the top port open, then I should see maximum boost, right? I know to back off just in case I run extremely lean and not to blow the engine.

 

Run your waste gate directly off the port on the turbo outlet

If you run it off your manifold, things will get screwy. You want the WG to stay open as long as the boost is on the verge of being too high (psig) for you setup. You see, when the TB closes the manifold will see vacuum, causing the WG to think that the boost pressure is not excessive and stay closed if VAC is applied to the bottom of the diaphram.