I have have had a nitrous oxide systems setup on my car since 1996. Well, the car now has over 210k miles on it, and I am going to remove the nitrous system and sell it. It is already set up for a 3.1 liter Firebird, but I am sure that the 2.8 MPFI would be about the same. I have it set up to give about 75 HP gain at 75 degrees ambient temperature. It will definitely give you a big performance gain for not much money! I want $250 for the entire system as-is with the empty bottle. I think I gave about $400 for it more than 10 years ago. I haven't run a bottle through the car in several years, but I know that the solenoids still work.

I will post pictures on here in the next few days.

If you are interested, please e-mail me at pontiacguy1@hotmail.com and put Nitrous system or something like that in the subject line.

 

Here are some pictures of the system while it was still in the car. I have already removed it from the car and labeled all of the connections so that it would be really easy for someone else to hook back up. I want $250 for the entire thing, but hey, make me an offer! It is out of the car, and I am going to sell it one way or another. Shipping will be paid by the buyer. This has been a good system, and I have been very pleased with it. The car now has a lot of miles on it and is my daily driver to and from work.

 

Does anyone even run nitrous on their 60 degree V6? I never took my car to a track, so I don't have any idea what it would run. My guess would be somewhere in the high to mid 14 second range.

I had a friend with a 1987 Mustang GT 5.0 5 speed with 3.55 gears, and I could stay right with him from about 20 mph to about 90 MPH when I was hittin' the bottle. He also had gutted exhaust and had a cold air induction. Any 5.0 with further mods than that would beat me. The convertible ones I could usually take because they are heavier. I mostly used mine for stoplight to stoplight encounters, and it was pretty fun for that.

The only tracks less than 120 miles away from here are all 1/8th mile tracks.

What are some times that some of you guys with Nitrous have run?

 

to be honest thats to much for a kit that old, and arent the old bottles outdated,were they wont even fill them anymore

thats a dry setup? i didnt see and fuel lines

 

I Believe that most bottles are good for 20 years, but I will check the markings on the top to be sure it is not out of date.

Yes, it is a dry system. It has a line that hooks up to the fuel pressure regulator that bumps up your fuel pressure when you hit the Nitrous. It has always worked really good for me.

If you think that I'm asking too much, that's ok. That's what I want for it, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't take less. Like I said, make me an offer! A kit like this new would be around $500 or so. I'm going to sell it, so I'm open to negotiation. If you make an offer, and I don't get a better one in a week or two, then it will be yours!

Has anyone else used nitrous on their 60 degree V6?

 

a few ppl have talked about using nitrous but im not sure if anyone ever has done it.

a while back there was one guy who was going to do a 200 shot on his car but he got fed up with the car after running into some problems with the motor rebuild and scraped the whole project

i have a dual nozzle wet kit on my car, with jets from 35-150 hp but im afariad to use it witht he turbos

 

I thought about going with a wet system, but for the smaller gains that I was wanting, I was advised by some people that I know that use nitrous a lot and had a lot experience with it, that it would be better to leave the manifold dry flow, and have the extra fuel come through the injectors.

The kit is actually an adjustable kit that was made by NOS for a 5.0 mustang engine. Those supposedly have an injection and induction system very similar to our 60-6's. I think it is the 5150 kit. I still have the original setup booklet somewhere.

Mine was set up for 75 HP gain with 850 on the bottle. I would never use it below 650 PSI. On the other hand, if the car had been sitting out on a hot parking lot during the summer, the bottle would be running around 1100 PSI, and you could REALLY feel the power coming out of it then! It was probably nearing 100 HP with that pressure. The fact that the system puts pressure on the fuel pressur regulator to up the fuel pressure means that it has some amount of self-adjustability. When the bottle was hot, then it would really kick it for a 3.1 V6 with an otherwise stock drivetrain.

Ya gotta admit that a 75 to 80 HP gain on a motor that originally made 140 is pretty significant. I could beat stock Mustang 5.0s or ones that were very slightly modified. If they had many mods, then they would beat me. That was with the bottle at 850 PSI. If the bottle pressure was higher, I could reach a little higher on the food chain. I never took it to the track, but it sure was fun to play with.

A few years ago, there were a few others on this board running nitrous, I think. That was before anyone had done a turbo mod, though.

 

see i dont get how that dry kit works our fpr will not raise fp on a 1-1 rate above atmpsophere so once u wot its relying soley on the ecm for the additional fuel

the nos regulator valve just puts preasure above atmosphere to the fpr dosent it to bump up fp

 

The fuel pressure regulator is nothing but a big spring and a diaphragm. It has a vaccuum line hooked up to it so that the fuel pressure will drop some under part throttle and allow the injectors to pulse for a longer period of time, and also to help some with throttle response. Anyway, putting pressure on this diaphragm basically makes it require more pressure for the fuel to overcome the FPR and return to tank. The fuel pump has to be able to pump the fuel at the higher pressure and at significant volume to not starve the engine. This is one of the reasons why you really don't want to over-do it with a stock fuel pump. I have never seen any problems with mine.

The 02 sensor doesn't tune the engine at WOT. At more than 75% throttle, it goes to some pre-set condition for fuel delivery for the RPM you are at, and that is where it runs. This is my understanding of the factory system. That is also why you want a switch on the throttle body so that the nitrous only activates when you go to WOT. This is what I had on mine. The only way that the solenoids will open is if you have the arming switch on, and go to WOT. It all seems to work just fine. I probably ran 30 or more bottles through this engine, and have never had a minutes problem.

You probably don't need much more pressure to deliver the extra fuel... Probably only 10 or so PSI will give you as much as you need. I am sure that the fuel pressure doesn't suddenly jump to 70 PSI or something.

The motor now has over 210K miles on it, and it is also my daily driver because of gas being so high. I have two small children, and don't have time or money to fool with nitrous, or street racing, or burning off the tires or anything like that right now.

You probably know more about the factory ECM than me, so I am probably just typing to hear myself type.

 

I was seriously thinking about nos for my 3.1 camaro, However I was getting some "dont do it!!" comments from peple who believe the engine cannot handle nos and about 15 psi under boost. Ive been playing with the eeprom and bins with the hardware I got from moates for the past month and still dont have the tuning thing down packed, but that's another story. Do you believe the 3.1 can handle both nos and boost? And if so, could youstill run a dry shot under boost?

 

yeah with that small of a shot u shouldnt have any issues, for most full dry systems u would inject before the maf, this will have the ecm add the additional fuel

im stuped on the fpr thing cause i hooked up a fp gauge to my rail and witht he stock frp it would not increase fp with boost, i swaped over to a grannational unit fitted into my return line and now im getting 1-1 fp rise with boost

excelle there is no reason u cant run the nitrous with the turbo, ppl have also been saying these motors would come apart under 7 psi of boost and never make more then 250 hp before they blew up.

the key is having it tuned coreectly so it dosent go lean or detonate.
i am only iffy about the nitrous on my car cause i still havent put in my new rear and the stocker is on borrowed time and im still getting the tune down on boost only

 

With that said, I will not abandon the nos idea, though it's to bad I can't make an offer on this setup now, still investing in getting the engine to run correctly under boost.

Is it really that much of a concern to have the fp rise and fall? I got tired of rrfpr that I purchased a holley adj fuel pressure regulator, set it to the max pressure; 59 psi, and removed the vacuum line to it so that it constantly stayed on 59 psi no matter what rpm.

 

set it up so its rises and falls, it makes tuneing it easier, the problem is at 60 psi of fp when ur crusing u have to get the injector pulse with so low that it dosent spray well and gas milage suffers

 

I knew someone would eventually tell me that I was out of my mind doing that, the car has been parked so long trying to get the boost right that I never was able to truely see what setting the fp like that would do.

Could you look at my last post on my thread to see if you can shead some light on some minor bim modification questions?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...-new-post.html


Hey pontiac, how much do you believe shipping would be to sunrise fl 33326?

 

sorry man i went right over the stock ecm and went with the megasquirt, it does so much more right out of the box then the factory stuff.not that the factory ecm cant,but it was alot less hassel to use the ms unit

 

I haven't tested the genI MPFI FPRs but the genIII FPRs do raise the fuel pressure with beyond the set point when pressure is applied above atmoshperic, most GM regulators are this way, though they usually don't raise in a linear fashion.
In my case the pressure was raised in a more like 1.5:1 ratio, my base pressure was about 46 PSIG (I modified a stock regulator to be adjustable), and approached close to 60 PSIG at "full boost" of about 7 PSIG, unfortunatly I wasn't able to watch the gauge myself, a good friend of mine informed me of this after the runs. I wish I had set-up the interior fuel pressure gauge that I had wanted to.
In most cases the high nitrous pressure will essentially cause the FPR to become a "pinch valve" and block the return of fuel to the tank, usually spiking pressure into the 60 to 80 PSIG range, depending on how strong the fuel pump really is.

The OEM ECM has more capbilities out of the box than MS does with all of the "mods" I've seen for it, lates board, etc.
One of my favorite capabilities that the OEM ECM is capable of when using the right program is speed controlled boost, it works VERY well.
For those of use that need to keep emmisions controls in tact, the OEM ECM will control EGR, A.I.R. pump, and check engine light. In my province (and I know some states), require the check engine light to be fully functional and work in a specific way. Around here a car will fail an E-test, if the CEL doesn't function, even if the tail pipe emmisions are good. I don't agree with it, but I have to live by it.
I also like the highway lean cruise mode that can be enabled by a certain amount of time spend above a certain speed, gear selectable shift light output, and many more features. With the ECM I'm currently using there's inputs and outputs that are not being currently used, though the code is out there to enable it, and also being integrated into other code. On Board (self) Diagnostics, limp home mode, all great features I have yet to see in an aftermarket EMS. (I have seen that AEM and IIRC FAST have diagnostics, just not sure exactly how they work, if they are like the GM where a code will be set and stored.)

 

the new ms units dont have to be modified for the extra featurse they all come enabled while they cant do some things liek speed based boost control they do have other features traction control meth and water injection, stageable boost control launch and antilag, the list just goes on and on but as far as diagnostics and stuff they cant do that, but generally if something does go wrong with one u will know what it is and no9t need it


yeah but for turbo guys, even if u retian all those functions, it still will not pass inspection, due to the ex system being modified pre cat.

even if the car ran cleaner over stock they would still fail it.

my car will get past the sniffer but will fail the visual test, thanks to another member of the boards here we have come up with a way to make the cel pass the visual test even without a stock ecm, i have yet to hook up this lil piece in my car but i should get to it im about 8 months over due for inspection

 

It really sucks you guys still have e-testing, Florida no longer does emissions.

Speaking from an **amateur** pov, I strongly believe that everyone should start *at least with modding the oem ecm. it's easy enough to do with everything moates have to offer and you learn so much about how the ecm controls the engine with specs from a bin file thats already there. Then going forward, you start to realize that most guys just want simple modifications done to utilize boost and nos, among other things like disabling egr and releasing limitations. All due respect for you guys that can completely tear down the engine and rebuild it, and fully understand every aspect on ecm functions, there are alot of guys like me that are just bolting on things and will be very happy if we can get this v6 to do 250 hp, not having the time or base knowledge to start on page one of the megamanual. The theories behind the two concepts you two guys have seems to be as strong as the programmer behind the ecm. I don't know every square inch of the ecm to understand how to unlock every possible hp, i really wouldn't know where to start, but I do believe that a good enough tuner can program the oem ecm to perform as good as the ms. I guess at the end it's to the eye of the beholder.

**amateur** pov of course, I'm sure I'm little out of my liege . . . .

 

I checked on the UPS website to see what the shipping would be to 33326. I had to estimate the weight of the whole thing at around 20 pounds, which should be pretty close with the hoses, solenoids, mounts, and an empty bottle. The UPS calculator came up with approximately $17.50 for ground shipping to a residence.

I also looked at my bottle yesterday afternoon to see if it had an expiration date or any such thing on it. It had a small sticker on it, but it had no dates printed on it. The stampings in the bottle itself show that it was manufactured in 10/95. I don't think you would ever have any trouble getting this thing filled up. Other than a few minor scratches, the bottle looks perfect and should be fine for many more years.

 

A "10 pound bottle" typically weighs 25 pounds empty, on it's own.

 

You are probably right... for some reason I thought that the bottle said that it was 15 pounds empty. I was estimating 5 pounds for all of the other stuff.

I went back to the UPS website and put in for a 30 pound package from me to 33326 zip on ground, and it came up to be about 24 dollars.
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You are probably right... for some reason I thought that the bottle said that it was 15 pounds empty. I was estimating 5 pounds for all of the other stuff.

I went back to the UPS website and put in for a 30 pound package from me to 33326 zip on ground, and it came up to be about 24 dollars.

 

I have to talk it over with the wife to see how much funds I can let go right now, I'll get back with ya tomorrow on if I can make an offer.

 

Thanks. Just send me an e-mail to Pontiacguy1@hotmail.com and we will work out the details.