I have a 91 RS with the 3.1 and not only is the thing annoying me by not running corectly but I also know that it will be slow as crap stock.

I have read that nothing that bolts to the v6 will bolt to the v8, yet there are a lot of people that have swapped, so my question is...

to get the power of the v8 would it cost less or be less labor intensive to mod the v6 or just swap the motor?

 

I'll move this to the V6 forum so you can get ideas about making more power out of the V6.

You can read the sticky at the top of the Engine Swap forum for what it takes to put in a V8. You'll have to do your own research on costs, because what someone else paid isn't going to have much relevance to what you'll have to pay.

 

Stock TPI V8s were less than 300 HP.

The iron head 3.1 with a turbo has been known to make 250+ HP, with a proper tune.

Swapping to a genIII top end can open up even more power.

I could have just about any (Chevy) V8, through my grandfather or friends, yet I'm installing a 3500 in my Datsun, once I either Blow up the I6 that's in there now, or grow tired of the I6, which ever comes first.

 

3500 is a good idea for a little car like a datsun. probably weighs half of a sbc.

the great thing about v6's is that you don't have to throw a ton of money at them to improve performance. its the things you can do yourself that can get you power. the same can be said about a V8 but since you have a V6 you might want to consider keeping it because its cheaper to. you can port the intake and heads and depending on your resources and experience you can fabricate damn near anything. if you can make it for a V8 you can probably make it for a V6. if you want to throw some money at the engine and learn a lot in the process, consider a turbo.

 

ok so if I keep the v6 what are some things that you guys recommend to start with to add performance that isn't a huge investment...by the way my buddy just bought a 1994 lt1 trans am and I am SOOOO jealous and I want to at least be able to kinda keep up with him eventually... is that possible without a huge investment?

 

I'm not sure if you're talking to me or the OP, but I've turbocharged two of my own vehicles now, one being my '85 GMC Jimmy (3.2L hybrid), the other being my Datsun. I've also turbocharged a 3400 in a Cavalier, along with partial builds and asisting other people on other builds. I have experiance turbocharging vehicles.

To the OP, that is 250 HP with a turbo and a good tune. The good tune involves changing paramters in the bin file on the chip in the ECM, to make it match what the engine wants and needs.

 

Well for starters put some better gears in the rear. Won't be making any more power but you're buddy's going to wonder why it's so much quicker all of a sudden. Then you can consider some basic stuff like headers, tuning equipment and maybe port & polish. Turbocharging will get you what you want quick and it's been done before, but I highly reccomend you get accustomed to tuning beforehand. Too often guys just jump in and botch in a turbo without learning how to give the engine what it wants first.

 

well, I was referring to your datsun idea in my first couple of sentences, then I decided to give my on the thread. thats what I used the blank space for, sorry for the confusion. I'm going to turbo my v6 probably before the end of next year. just a small turbo, but I'm having trouble finding one. I'm starting to gather parts for now.

 

I thought the 3.23 gears were supposed to be pretty good gears...but are they not really? second how well does the stock air intake perform? is it worth replacing?
third what gears should i put in there to be faster from the dig but still be able to drive on the highway and not be red lining? I mean what's the top speed on one of these stock? 120? maybe... I don't need to get past like 90 or a hundred if I can sacfrafise that 20-30 mph on the top end for a faster take off that would be great

my dad has a 89 rs with the t5...if i could talk him into swapping me would that be a better performing tranny than the 700r4?

also how can you turn the stock single trac into posi? cause I have heard from many people that you can do it without actually buying anything

 

I cruise at ~1700rpm on the highway with 3.73's. With the th700's overdrive and a locking converter I wouldn't worry about putting better gears in it. I was considering 4.10's for a while, but 3.73's will give me the best 1/4 mile times with my new engine. I would stay away from the t5. You won't be making enough power to blow one, but you'll hit the ceiling fast enough. All you need to do is put a posi diff in your axle- might as well swap it out along with some better gears.

 

so i should get 3.73 gears?

 

I had about 250 crank HP and over 300 ft/lbs of torque going through my T5, it was fine.

I have yet to see any hard proof of the T5's being weak. Most that break seem to be abused, and not just driven hard, but abused hard.

 

i agree, I haven't heard any proof of t5 being weak. I thought there was a guy using spray on his 383, with a T5 and a V8 bellhousing. driving all out pretty much every day. he didn't have a problem last I heard.

 

I knew a coworker that had an '86 'bird that had nothing but problems with his t5. Granted he beat on it like an angry catholic nun, but it still shouldn't have gone through gears like it did.

 

my questions is that if I want this thing to at least be kind of a low end torque monster what are some good mods to start with? I don't really care about top end that much I just want it to throw me when I mash it from a dig

 

Well if you want a plow-me-in-the-seat launch (without regard to top speed limit or cruise rpm) with one of these 'lil engines I'd go with 4.xx+ gears, a manual w/ a good clutch so you can dump it from whatever rpm you want and some sticky tires. Just about any car/motor combo can be made to launch hard with the right drivetrain. Bump the compression up, get the heads flowing and most importantly invest in some good headers... you're pretty much limited to pacesetter, modifying some s-10 headers or custom though. The stock cam will limit rpm & flow, but it's a good starter for building torq.

 

lol thanks man I wanna do that but not to the extreme...still want good dd but want to have good launch dont really care much about top end I just want to be able to drive on the highway at normal speeds at normal rpms

how do think low 4's gearing sounds with posi rear and a 75 shot? would that be decent you think?

 

How bout a 3800 swap out of a newer(95-02) Firebird/Camaro and then go from there?

200hp stock and you'll already be damn close to beating alot of stock 3rd gens and with a good gear and tune setup, You'll be close to beating your buds Lt1. Throw a turbo on that motor and You'll have yourself an even faster car.

 

I've never been a fan of nitrous. Not that it's dangerous or anything, I just want power underfoot all the time, without having to fill a bottle to get it. A 3800 swap is more involved then you might think, he might as well go with a v8 if he goes that route.

 

ya i know...i had a 97 grand prix gtp with the 3.8 and a supercharger and it was fast but I really don't like that motor that much and bl85c is right...that swap is very involved and I might as well go the v8 route if i was doing that...

also how could I get the power that the nitrous would give me with regular mods? without spending too much money

 

my opinion on the v6 mod or v8 swap

v6 mod = if you have money and time to mod and go turbo

v8 if you are tighter on money and want a cruiser for same speed.

v6 PROPERLY built using forged goodies and good turbo parts are going to run you into the 13's...sometimes 12's.....

typical 350 tpi with cam and intake.....good for same speed



so in my case i went v8...id love a boost 6....but for me the choice was clear save thousands and have lot more tq

 

You dont like the 3.8 yet you like and wanna mod a 3.1?
You might as well swap a V8 cause 3.1's are trash.

Even turbo'd You'd be lucky if You got 13's out of it.

Btw, a grand prix motor and f-body 3.8 are different. IF You didnt know.

 

What's wrong with a 3.1? sure the lower manifold leaks but so does the 3.8. Matter of fact just about all gm v-engines leak at the lower manifold. And yea the stock heads suck but you're not limited to stock iron heads or pricey aftermarket parts like the 3.8. Turbo is your best bang/buck. Don't be afraid of salvaged parts and doing it yourself. There's sevral members that have done it and I'm sure they'd be glad to share their ideas.

Like I always say it's up to you-
v8 = instant gratification with handling penalty
v6 = better handling but less power

Either can be done cheap and reliable.

 

hmm some people know how to start a war eh?

Just to add to the T5 debate, theres nothing wrong with the design its the internals and who you let rebuild them, (uk) Sierra cosworths ran T5's in world rallying and touring cars running over 500 Bhp, on the uk fast ford scene they also have no probs with some 800Bhp monsters running the T5.
I think the internals were made with cream cheese from the factory LOL, but properly built can be awsome. Just like rebuilding an engine really :-)

 

War? I just want to know why he thinks the 3.1 is trash. Word of mouth or experience?

 

The 3.8 isnt pricey to build. In fact, You can build an 11 second 3.8 V6 for less then or around 4k$(pending your setup and/or goals)

I'd spend more then that to just swap an lt1 or ls1 in before I could build the 3.8 to outrun them.

Not trying to start an arguement or a "war" But Its just from what I've seen and been around.

GL with whatever You do. :P
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Well 1st of all they got what 130hp stock? Theres 4 bangers making that stock and even more then that.

Theres just not alot You can do with them, IMHO. And be happy with where your at compared to other fast cars.

 

The 3800's are not THAT different

I know a guy who used the top end from an L67 (including the supercharger) and made if fit his 3800 Camaro. The blocks are identical.

3.1's are not "trash", maybe slow in stock form.

 

first i would have to spend the money to swap to the 3.8, THEN spend more money to mod it...that's a lot more than I would spend to mod the 3.1

also I am not looking to spend thousand of dollars and don't care if I make it into the 12's or 13's this is my dd that I am just looking to get a little more power out of...nothing but just a couple hundred bucks

 

I know that guy too.

A few hundred bucks wont make u happy enough, bud.
Like I said, Good luck.

 

ya i know man it sucks but my budget doesn't allow me to spend a lot so I am going to do mostly appearance stuff to make it look good and prolly just throw in a 75 shot bottle...(going to get off pontiacman) and be good looking.

 

Sure, if you compare late model 4 cyls to it. But for it's day it was pretty much average. Hell, there's 4bangers making more from the factory than tpi v8's.

Since when? Take a look at some of the stickies at the top. Or go to 60degreev6.com. If you're clever and can do more than bolt things together there's plenty that can be done with them.

Not trying to start a flame war or anything, there's just alot of misplaced ignorance twoards these engines.

 

Hmmm....

My untuned (and it deperatly needed a tune) 3.2L turbo hybrid was well into the 13s, with a 2.07 60'. I know that if I knew then what I know now and just tuned it, I could have easily hit 12s, and had great gas milage to boot. Oh did I mention my truck was a daily driver? I also put the engine and turbo together installed for less than $2K at the time, which at the exchange rate of then was about $1300, IIRC.

I'm almost tempted to throw a V6 back into the truck, just to run 12s or 11s on a small budget, but then that would be a waste when I have my toy that will run quicker with the same engine.

The 660 is a very good engine, and dare I say it..... More efficiant than the 3800, when using the right stock parts. Series 1 3800; 170ish HP IIRC, GenI 3.4; 160 HP, S1 3800 SC; 220 HP, GenIII 3400; 195 HP N/A; upwards of 300 HP turbo charged, or supercharged, though they didn't come that way from the factory. SII 3800 SC is about 280 HP.....

GenII/III or hybrid 660 is much lighter than the 3800 as well, though the alumnimun heads of the 3800 do help bring the weight down quite a bit in the later offerings.

660 is not expensive to moodify and get power out of, just takes some enginuity.

 

how'd you get a 3.2L? bore a 3.1? you obviously know what your talking about. do you mind if I pm you some questions eventually? I mean, once I get closer to turbo-ing my 3.1 (was 2.8).

throwing money at an engine isn't always how to get more power. think about doing something you can fabricate. if you don't know how to weld or use a oxyacetylene torch its not hard. you could find someone to teach you. it would really be cheaper to just make your own stuff, I mean think about maybe porting your heads, if you borrow the tool from a friend take everything apart yourself, buy new gaskets and put everything back together yourself you've spent about 100.

 

^2nd thats what im doing :-)

 

yea, i was actually kinda referring to your porting job.