I've got a 1988 2.8L Camaro. My problem is the car has a super crappy idle, kinda jerks a little on a mild takeoff, and smells like gas. We are taking it into paint in 2 weeks and we want to get it runnin OK before that. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

 

Does it get better as the car heats up over time? Also is it a really strong smell to the gas or kind of mild.

 

I would suggest a full tune up...click below....

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/6...or-tuneup.html


...if that doesnt help i would check vacuum lines(old school trick with starting fluid always works)...then if you still have nothing i would do a fuel system pressure check and a leak down test on the injectors...the pump may be good but the lines might be full of crap; try running "red magic" stp cleaner through it...if not disconnect both ends and use a air gun to blow everything out...wear protection and be aware fuel will blow out(DO NOT GET IN EYES OR MOUTH!)...and as always...


HAPPY TUNING!

 

this problem is a little like mine... i was told it could be blockage in the catylitic converter... or the throttle positioning sensor. idk.. as for "Tuning the car up" it did nothing.. my car has new wires cap rotor and plugs...so tuning up did nothing... and since my car WAS PROPERLY Tuned i DID feel a diffrence in switching gas grades... so tunes ups arent the cure all for acceleration problems. thanks but no thanks

 

Yeah I was told about the TPS and the Cat possibly doin that. Went to an exhaust shop today about a catback and found out I had about 20 holes in the pipes and manifold bolt without a head . The gas smell is really strong the whole time, to answer your question. Also went in today to get the seatbelt recalls checked and the rear hatch motor serviced. Motor was busted so they unplugged it, now the hatch doesn't close. That means the fumes are being sucked into the car and that really isn't good. Well, at least it gives me an excuse to buy a catback. Only real good news today is that I found a great place to get the window tinted. I will try some of the things suggested, just haven't been able to lately. Thanks

 

You might not want to give attitude to the ppl that try and help you...ever heard of "dont bite the hand that feeds you"?

....and buddy if your computer is tuned "properly" then thats good, your ahead of about 88.7% of the top guys on this site. If your referring "tuning" to putting plugs and wires on...congradulations you can do the basics but thats not tuning a car. When i refer to having a correct tune to feel the difference im talking about tuning the computer. Alot of top people on this site are still trying to get an optimal tune out of there car (and no ppl throwing a hypercrap or jet chip is not a full tune...honestly anyone with basic skills of tuning can crank a tune like that out in few hours time if not faster) Were talking about a full on tune with a laptop, burner, reader, hours on end of logging, possibly dyno time, etc.

As for "...my car has new wires cap rotor and plugs...so tuning up did nothing..." If everything that was in there before was 3/4 decent you most likely wont feel a difference.


Before you go running around telling people that your plugs, wires dont help. Think of this...First off its easy to refer someone to doing a tune up first...if they have all that done that helps weed out alot of the stupid lil things that can cause problems. Which then helps ppl, like me, who are trying to help ppl fix there problem get to the more advanced diagnosing steps.

Like i said dont give attitude to the ppl that are trying to help...also dont give false help...if you dont know then sit down...shut up...and wait for someone with more experience and knowledge to respond

 

Hey mtwlkn122, I noticed you had the Dynomax super turbo catback, in your sig. I was looking at that and was just woundering about the sound,if its to whiny I wont get it, just lookin for an opinion because I didn't find what I needed on the V6 muffler thread. Thanks

Little bit off subject, sorry about that

 

the O2 sensor was my problem you getting any codes ?

 

No problem....and it sounds great. Magnaflow sounds the best but they dont make a "bolt on" kit...I have a magnaflow hi flow cat and dynomax turbo catback and it sounds amazing...i had it put on by a local shop...didnt cost much as i know the shop but they hung it nice and said if it leaks at all(caused by the install) bring it back and they will fix it for free...so that was nice...but ya at first i thought wow this is too loud but it seemed to get quiter over time( i think it just needed to be broken in)...dont get flowmaster tho...flowmaster has been proven to not flow well at all by members on here who have flow bench tested different mufflers...the dynomax has a nice idle(ppl say it sounds like an eight all the time) and its not to raspy like the flowmaster is. I think it sounds great. I have alot of complements on it all the time. I will be doing the pacesetter headers soon also. Only after i pull the motor just to make sure everything is good to go before the future turbo install. I will also be doing a cam lifters and 1.6 rockers also.


As a side note dont think your going to sound like an eight with any cat back system tho. It does sound like an eight at idle but at WOT it sounds like a six. I mean it does sound good tho. I hate that raspy sound...and i also hate that fart pipe sound. The dynomax sounds great and also helps out exhaust flow resulting in a lil more "seat of your pants" hp. I personally got it all from summit and was happy with the purchase. Id say for the price get it and if you dont like(i highly doubt you wont like it) then just dont use the muffler and get a 2.5in dual 2.5in out magnaflow muffler. Like i said tho it sounds great. No need to change anything in my opinion.

 

Thanks for the feedback, yeah I had been looking at the dynomax with the Magnaflow High Flow for some time. I just needed a reason to get it and I got that reason today. I really didn't expect it to sound like an 8 at WOT so thats no news to me. I have to admit that I had previously wanted a blowmaster, but that was only because everyone had it at school and I had heard a lot of good about it. So that flow chart on the V6 muffler thread shocked me. So now I will definitely do the turbo catback.
But back on topic, Firebird I haven't gotten any codes and I havent had any time to check anything or to do a tune up. I had previously heard from someone that it could be the EGR, I'm not sure because I'm still kinda nooby at this. Thanks for all the help!

 

Well you could just disconnect the EGR...you will get a code on the dash tho. Only way to do it right is to disconnect it all and reprogram the computer so it knows the EGR is gone(more like telling it thats its there and working when its not lol) EGR will affect acceleration and performance. I personally think its a bunch of junk, even when it is working all it does is take exhaust gases at certain points and parameters and puts it back into the front of the UIM. Pretty much just putting black carbon deposits all over your UIM and LIM! It also coats the back of the TB butterfly with black carbon. That is why i think it is a piece of junk design.

 

yes yes yes you were right... i never "tuned" my car. sorry. HOWEVER. that having been said...my problem went away after changing out my T.P.S... it diddnt go away completley but the diffrence ive noticed was significant. thanks for your help. diddnt mean to get snotty. i had just gotten inside from messing with the car and was in a foul mood. my bad. and i plan on knocking the catalytic converter free so its hollow. that could be why the car isnt running as good as it could. i have alot of carbon residue in my tailpipes (a sign its running rich) and that carbon most likey clogged the cat. severly affecting performance... il letcha know what diffrence that made.

 

and idk why its runnig so rich. i think the tps was telling the computer that the throttle is in a position it wasnt and too much fuel was added without the propper air mixture that explains bogging down in lower R.P.Ms and the power loss. lets hope it fixes the rich mixture too. and also ... i NEVER gave anyone false help. mtwlkn22, YOU said yourself that our problems were alike. and i figured if it helped me.. it might help him. fair enough?

 

Had a similar problem with my 3.1 this weekend- idling rough, running rich, throwing a 'service engine light'. Turned out to be the MAP sensor. $32 at Autozone and 5 minutes to swap it out and problem solved!

I have the Dynomax cat back and love it- good sound. My kids can hear me pull into the tract, my ex-wife hates it and it sets off BMW alarms everytime I go into a parking building- BRILLIANT!

 

ima check it out... i cant even go up hills. it literally does 20 mph up a hill unless i have inertia and the REVS! omg it revs and revs and revs and goes absolutley nowhere. my idle is okay though. im starting to think its time to ditch the tirel old 2.8 it has just over 220,000 on it and its never had any work done besides just atune up (lmao lets not get into that) and the oil was changed frequently. i know my cars history and the guy who owned it b4 me drove it like it had an 8 cyl (it got beat on). so maybe its just time to replace the motor cause i may not have compression anymore or something. ima check that out when i get a chance to pull my plugs and get a meter on it.

 

Vulcan my car does the same thing on hills, almost 5K and pulling 30 MPH . I think I'm gonna pull the TPS and go get one, can they be had at Autozone maybe? There aren't many parts stores in my area that I know of. Micktroup, thats pretty cool about the BMWs. All the people in my neighborhood are old farts and uptight @$$holes so if its loud it'll be fun!

 

well i JUST replaced my T.P.S today... the car ran better and accelerated better... however it did NOTHING uphill. I swear im going to start beating my girlfriend over it. hahahah KIDDING. but seriousley. I sometimes wonder what ppl behind me think as i crawl up a hill at 20. hahah

 

Staying a little off topic, but it is not that the Dynamax is loud, it is the harmonics- my kids think it is hilarious to just sit in the parking garage at idle and have the resonance start those snob alarms tweeting like crazy! I live in OC California, so you can imagine how often that happens...

 

i just went on what couldve been the most hilarious ride of my life. my dad decides he wants to take the camaro out for a diagnosis ride. and up a hill whos behind us but two cops. his face was sooooo red when they pulled us over. he explained that i owned the junk car and him and the two officers preceded in giving me the most thorough laughdown i ever had. it was quite funny though.. as it turns out... all 4 of us have decided that the carbon is clogging the cat which messes with the o2 sensor which in turn makes the gas mixture unnaturally rich. the 1st thing im doing tomorrow is hollowing that cat and revving the crap out of it to get out the carbon. makes sense to me!

 

and as for anyone offended by me calling my 2.8 camaro JUNK... its my car. and its my first... and the word junk is used lovingly. so F*CK off. hahahaha

 

Ok for all the ppl having problems on hills its your cat!....buy a high flow magnaflow cat and call it a day(or gut it...but that will make the car VERY LOUD AND ANNOYING during highway use!)...i have the mangaflow and dynomax turbo cat back and it sounds amazing...no anoying resonance at highway...it sounds amazing at idle and also sounds pretty darn decent at WOT...I stand behind the product I use if its good and I deffinatly stand behind my exhaust set up!


Hey vulcan the 2.8 and 3.1 are actually very strong and reliable motors...the reason you dont like yours(which is completely understandable) is because you are having problems with it. If it was in showroom condition or even modded you would LOVE it. Try and find someone that has a really nice third gen and take a ride in it or even see if you can drive it. YOU WILL LOVE IT trust me! Its common nature to hate your car when it breaks....reality is these cars are 19 yrs old or so and need a lil TLC. Keep the car and do all the repairs and a few yrs down the road you will have an amazing car that not only is very fun, attracts the women, friends will envy you, but will also be worth some good money in the future!

^^That goes to everyone also...one thing i have learned is dont get to frustrated and also dont go throwing parts at your car...sit back and think about it...another thing ive noticed is you will love the car more and more when you fix things...espically the stupid lil things....like i got my wheels finally balanced and it rides so much better now...i also found out that my front right caliper was grabbin a lil bit and that caused the car to pull to the right a lil...fixed that and its so much easier to drive(faster also)...there is so many stupid lil things that make a world of difference....When i first got my car it sat for 5 years and was pretty bad...since ive fixed alot of stupid things....done many lil upgrades...in the begining i thought wow this car is cool looking but sucks at everything else...now that its back to running good and everything i LOVE THE CAR TO DEATH...just my .02 cents

...i also noticed vulcan that your stats on the side say 2.8 TPI...its either a 2.8 carb(not likely for a 89) or its MPFI...not a big deal...just noticed it lol

 

ahhh yes i totally agree with everything you said. I love my car to death. and isnt T.P.I tuned port injection? cause thats what mine is. sonafabeeehotch. i just ran outside and popped my hood to double check and you were absolutley right. hahahah okay okay so you like tripping me up on my own words. hahah thanks for the point out. ive had my car for 5 years and ive put wayyyy much more time and effort than the car is worth into it. but ya know what? its worth it to me and thats what matters. my dad actually has a firebird with a 2.8 and its MINT. ive driven it before and i drool just thinking about how much more power and how nice it is. haha i actually stole his T.P.S and put it on my car he wont ever know until he goes to drive it. but im going to be a good son and replace it... eventually! to him its just a car. the guy has so many cars he dosnt care. our driveway has 3 3rd gens in it. they are my favorite car.well camaros in general!! so maybe i might go and get this magnaflow cat. whats my price range? what am i going to drop on it? cause i just replaced my tranny and im a lil low on the dough...especially when she sucks 20 bucks in gas a day. NO EXADDERATION. still and all i wouldnt trade her for the world. unlike others... I DONT MAKE PAYMENTS! and thats the best of all.

 

I've been looking at the Magnaflow cats and you can get a direct fit for around 112 bucks on Summit, or a Magnaflow cat that you cut out the cat and weld the new one in. That one is around 70 bucks at JC Whitney.
I've kinda figured alot of my problems are to do with the cat and TPS so I'm gonna get it replaced soon. And micktroup I knew what you meant by the soud, and thats pretty funny. The only thing I've ever done like that is setting off the alarm on my moms minivan and setting of like 3 other cars alrms. Mtwlkn, I completely understand what you mean buy loving your car even more after fixing it. So by that measure I'm really gonna love my thirdgen!
Thanks for all the help guys

 

Hey people good info on here. I'm going to need it and try it...

First thing first...

Slow88V6 - check out this thread https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...lers-v6-5.html
. It has sound clips of different exhaust and cats that people put up. So check out whats out there and how it sounds before you get something you havent heard...know what I mean. It also has a lot of info...check it

mtwlkn122 - Hey man your good so I'm going to get as much info as I can from you if you dont mind. I'm having the same problem that everyone else is having just without hills and the gas smell. I'm not getting any error on the dash. I changed out the TPS, FPR, fuel filter, new fuel pump, ect...a bunch of stuff. I get a rough idle, the kind that makes you say What the Hell? it has a problem holding its idle then stalls, when I try to step on the gas while sitting it stalls or wants to. I'm having problems setting my TPS, you know the voltage .54 or something to that. but its in there and dont feel its that. Now you got my attention when you metioned EGR...can you give me step by step in trying that out. Please? and thanks...



sorry for the long story guys...



And sorry for doing this guys LOL....hate me if you want LOL....but try to keep on the subject...which is "the problem", and not what we have and how it sounds. The reason why I say this is because believe it or not there is many people that are having this problem...not much the smell of gas but the stalling, bad idle, ect. At the moment I have a long list of people that are trying to figure this out and today I just learned something about the EGR and how it maybe the problem after reading past on how your liking your exhaust LOL

I'm not trying to create sad faces LOL

 

^^haha thanx man...funny thing is im only 19!...ive learned alot from this site....lets just say im not the common 19 yr old driving around in a mom bought honda pushing a coffee can exhaust and fake BOV whistle lol...I can only imagine what you are all thinking right now lol

 

Also wanted to add...I lost my EGR link on my bookmarks...just do a search for EGR cleaning it should pop up...Just as a note tho guys...i think i mentioned it above you can just remove the EGR and put a block off plate there instead but it will most likely cause a code to show. Only way to overide this is to crack into the Computer and turn the EGR off and hope it gets rid of the code. To me the EGR is useless on a performance stand point, and also an easy thing to remove the right way so hey why not just get rid of it...one less thing to fix and one less step when diagonising a problem...just my .02cents

 

thats cool....as for the age...I can care less. I dont care if people on here are 80 + years old farting while walking or 15 years old hoping to tap some rear for once lol......

All I care about is your knowledge and very cool that your that age....wish I had your knowledge and yes I also learned a lot here, love this site....

Keep it real bro

 

Great info I'll check it out and see what I find....

I'll link it on here when i find it (Make it easy for you guys rather then search, hate that s***)

Thanks again...

 

Before you decide to try and delete your egr, there a few things you can try before going into your motor or pockets. First, have you cleaned your intake? A gummed up throttle, upper intake, or lower can cause this too. Have you checked for a vacuum leak? Check your vacuum lines. TIMING, have you checked your timing? Very important that you get it to TDC and I believe it's supposed to be 10°(check under your hood or in a manual.) Since you changed out your fpr, did you look at the fuel injectors? A bad or clogged one will cause this problem as well. Deleting your EGR shouldn't even be a "resolution" to your problem as those came factory, therfore, your car should run properly with a functioning egr.

 

And i should have worded that different...like stated deleting the EGR is not a solution....i was trying to state that you can get rid of it easily and that tuning the computer is necessary to do so correctly...more so a recommendation to eliminate one more problem that can happen...thank you for the clarification to others...and yes ALL of the above are very important guys...espically TIMING!...i should have looked at what i posted...ive posted on so many of these "car losing power" recently that i cant remember which ones i wrote what on(lazy on my part to look down lol)

Hopefully after all these recomondations everyones cars will be working good again

 

It's okay man, i've seen so many of these posts and it's happened to me where I pull up to a light or stop sign and the car just wants to die that I know what steps to take now. My prob. ended up being 2 bad fuel injectors but I took many steps trying to diagnose the problem before I did that. Costed me MANY AND MANY of $$$$. To save you all from what I went through...try what i've said. Also, if your having a hard time on the highway or getting up to speed...a clogged cat really isn't that bad to look into. I and a few members fixed a girl's(fellow third genner's) car by banging and clearing out her catalitic converter, changing out her EGR valve(hers was burnt, but you can find good ones at the junk yard), and a new air filter, and her car ran perfect afterwards. I'm not going to say yours isn't bad but most times than not, it's fine.

 

I'm about to go out and get a TPS some time. I've looked at the Chilton manual and it kind of confused me on adjusting it. I don't know how to adjust it, so I need a little help.

 

I have the 3.1 motor which has speed density, but from what I understand, the MAF and TPS sensors are supposed to have a certain voltage/(a/f)ratio which you have to lookup cause I don't know them.

 

glad its not just me...I'm having the same problem..

Let me know how and what you did to adjust it....Or if I find out before you do then I'll let you know. And for those of you that reply stating to use a multimeter with niddle point thanks but no thanks there has to be an easier way....

And no I wont do a search sorry.....the search is kind of sucks....I tried searching alread....would be cool to see a video on it...hint hint lol

 

Well the way it says it in the Chiltons is, you loosen the two bolts on the side hook up your meter and move the TPS up and down until you get it between .50 and .60. That's the way it seemed to me at least. My meter wouldn't even get a reading so I'm stumped. Ran a bottle of STP fuel system cleaner through the car yesterday and it seems to run a little better. I'm about to get out and drive for a while to see if it helped.

 

http://www.iroczone.com/techarttpsadj.html

this might help,on adjust the TPS. It looked kinda similar from what I can tell. It may not be right but it looked similar.

 

lol i just kinda bolted mine in there and ran it...is that bad?

 

its not bad if its a non-adjustable tps. it is bad if you over tightened the screws, i spun the head off one of mine with very little force because it was bottomed out in the hole.

 

Since I have 2 days off coming, I'll get cracking and get some info for you guys on how to make your non-adjustable TPS into an adjustable one with a Dremel (or similar). I've been busy lately and haven't had a chance to dig out my dig cam until yesterday.

IDK when the TB switched over from the one that was on my 87 2.8 to the one mostly seen on the 3.1 and the like, so I can't exactly help as to which TPS is and isn't adjustable, but I can provide pics of the difference. All I can say ATM is that the adjustable one has a flat connector with 3 round peg terminals and the other has a round connector with 3 tiny terminals arranged in a sort of T shape. Confused?

Clogged cats will cause a backflow of exhaust back into the engine, much more so than the 7-10% that the EGR does. One way to tell this is through a vacuum gauge. The normal reading will steadily drop the longer the engine is run is the cat is clogged because the gases are filling the cylinders and leaving less and less room for normal air and fuel.

And yes, our EGR is a ****-poor design, but the design of most other engines isn't much better. Pretty much ANY engine with an EGR valve will eventually need to have the throttle plate and idle air passages cleaned.

Also, even newer cars will tend to have SOME carbon in the exhaust. Engines don't run 100% efficient, ALL the time, no matter the design... Even Partially Zero Emissions Vehicles (PZEV vehicles) still have less than perfect efficiency when it comes to having carbon, CO, CO2, excess fuel, NOx, and excess oxygen in their exhaust streams because of atmospheric conditions and how the driver actually drives the car. They just don't have as much of said emissions as our old dinosaurs. (I mean that in a kind way... I wouldn't trade mine in for anything short of an 81 Z)

 

wow. lotsa cool info. schweetness. um ok now let me hitcha with some questions... what is the advantages of cleaning the throttle plate and air passages? how would i accomplish such a task? and what kinda cleaner do you recommend? also, with the carbon in my tailpipes it was a very sizeable residue maybe a 8th of an inch thick. that built up after god knows how long but my attention was called to it when i say black carbon covering my rear bumper like light snow. also upon starting, the cloud of smoke and garbage released into the air is almost hilarious (except its my car so i cant laugh) lol. my cat is now hollow and i noticed a crazy diffrence in performance so i think that for the most part that was my problem. cant figure out the still lousy gas mileage and carbon tho.

 

1. Smoother idle and better response.
2. Remove the IAC from the TB, and unbolt the TB from the plenum to reach the back of the plate. Get a TB gasket pack... You're going to need it. You'll also want to remove the upper plate from the TB and clean the **** out of it since I am VERY sure that thing has to be gummed up with carbon like no tomorrow.
3. Sounds like you have a leaking injector or 2, or possibly the fuel pressure regulator. Take the vac line off of the TB block that runs to the FPR and find out if there is any raw fuel in it. If there is, you need a new FPR diaphragm. If not, you have to pull the fuel rail and hold it up while you pressurize the fuel system. The fuel injection system should hold 40 or so PSI for 20 minutes once pressurized as per factory spec. If not, you have other problems.

Your engine is running WAY rich. Too bad there isn't any snow. I'd bet your engine is blowing little ***** of carbon through the exhaust and that would best be seen in snow. That's why you're down on power and your gas mileage is non-existant.

 

Here's those TPS pics for those who were asking. It's not hard to work with the newer TPS as all you need is either a rotary tool with a carbide bit or a drill, like I used (since I seem to have lost the carbide bit for my rotary tool).

 

honest to god.. i dont even need snow.. just ildling 10 mins produces sizeable carbon deposits on the ground/ not kidding.

 

Ok this now has me interested...at first start up everyday before work i get a small amount of carbon build up on the floor. Im thinking its just injectors but havent gotten the time to really look into it. Im gettin on a good day 22mpg but usually i only get 250 miles to a tank so thats like what 17mpg. I kind of like to have fun in the curves on the back roads tho so im sure thats part of the problem. Either way I still feel like the car is not as fast as it should be. This is good information here.