THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

was just wondering if any one has a pic of a escm and the plug that goes into it ! i ve hear that 92 rs v6 dont have escm but i just wanted to make sure ! iam still having minor stallin issues uggghh

having stalling issues i have replaced the following......
replaced
plugs
wires
cap
rotor
oil
oil filter
iacv
sprayed vac lines

this weekend i am goning to get
a speedo sensor
and a knock sensor

as of now no codes but i do have a lil stalling when brakeing
any ideas fellas any help is much needed and thankful in advance ?????

RBob

iTrader: (1)

On the '90 - '92s the ESC module is inside of the ECM.

If your '92 has an automatic it may help to do an idle learn.

RBob.

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

thanks rbob
it a manual 5 speed . so do you have a pic of your ecm the plug and where is it located ?
i waz told it waz in front of the relay under the hood and it has a 1 wire hook up ?
thanks for you help ?

zoocrewsr

what all is it doing when you are brakeing and it stalls?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I am a little confused over what you would like to see.

The ESC system consists of a sensor (knock sensor) and the ESC filter. The sensor is located in the engine block near the pan rail on the passenger side in front of the starter.

The ESC filter (or knock module) is located inside of the ECM on the MEMCAL. For a picture of this see the sticky's on the DFI & ECM board here on TGO. There is a thread there that has pictures of a MEMCAL.

By "escm" I figured that you meant the esc module.

RBob.

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

hey zoo it just stalls and cuts off ! nothing more and nothing less !

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

rbob thanks for clearing that up i went to advace and i was givin the shaft !
i called chevy today and they said the same thing you said about it being int the ecm
but i waz told there a box that goes infont of the relays or between the washer pump and the relay bracket that has one red wire with a black plug that is call a esc module !! iam gonna call the guy i got the car from and see if it ever had one bc it has the hole for the screw on the relay bracket !
as of now thw car has no codes i'll take pic tomorrow of what iam talkin about so i can bring more to the table fellas thanks so much !
thanks for the help guys!

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

ONLY V8 cars have the separate ESC module by the brake booster, I believe that's where it is. Our V6 730 systems have the ESC built into the chip inside the ECM.

Stalling when braking is a good indicator of a vacuum leak. Seeing as how the vac hoses/lines on our cars are at least 17 years old (now 18), it's a good chance that at least the rubber ones need to be replaced on your car. If you handle one and it leaves rubber on your fingers (that is a REAL PITA to get off), you probably need new ones. It's either the lines or one or two of the one-way valves has a leak or is broken.

Did you clean out the air passages in the throttle body when you replaced the IAC? I'd check the coolant temp, throttle position, inlet air temp, and MAP sensor signals for proper outputs. Also check the resistance of the fuel injectors and the o-rings at each end for cuts and breaks.

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

thanks maverick
yep cleaned the tb and i check the vacum lines there old and they do leave rubber on my fingertips at the speed of nothin ! so i'll number them are replace them this weekend ! well in class today i checked alldata about the whole ESC module and it said it had one but when i looked at the car there where the holes for it but no dice they havent been tapped !

so thanks fellas and i'll keep yall updated thanks a million !

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Don't forget to check the brake booster hose and to replace the fuel hoses on the charcoal can by the headlights.

:edit: Your parts store may not be able to match the diameter of the booster hose if it's bad. If they can't (you need to replace this with coolant hose, BTW, or it will end up getting sucked flat ), you'll need to buy a pair of clamps and clamp it on at each end.

Gumby

Stalling when you use the brakes is a vacuum leak some where.

The brakes take so much vacuum to work, it kills/sucks the life right out of the engine.

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

thanks gumby and maverick
i got couple more questions.......
1 do the still sell this orb of power ball or can i block it off i still have mine on the car but the mounting point are broken on it!
2 now that i think about it i do have a small exaust leak around the passanger side mainfold!
3 was gonna grab some doughnut gaskets but i dont know if i need one or two ?
what size would they be ?
4 would that cause code or ruff running in cold weather?
5 doesthe part store still sell the lil number strip you use to number off spark plug wire bc i waz gonnna number off the vac lines to the fiting so i know where the go when i get the new ones to put on! i dont have a vac sticker on my car at all thanks a million fellas !

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

1. Block the orb off at the T for the cruise control. It may be difficult to remove, however.
3. There are only 2 style donut gaskets on the 3rd gen V6... One has a shorter curve on it with a thick flat plate (early style), and the other is a full curve that is larger in the middle, used post-carb. I have used both, and have mixed feelings about both. Some have better luck with the early ones and a gasket (an actual gasket cut from high-temp gasket paper), and some like the newer ones. I personally think the newer ones are a bigger PITA, but that's because I have other problems with my manifolds.
4. The leak may potentially throw either a code 44 or 45.
5. Numbered clothes pins are cheaper. So is masking tape. If I didn't know where mine went, I'd go with the tape.

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

ok thanks mave i'll stick for the tape for vac lines ! the exhaust gasket ill just ask do you have any pics of the diffrance between the two doughnut gaskets ?

thanks for the help !

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

If I can find any of my newer style ones that's still in one piece (one of my exhaust problems is that the flanges keep coming loose and the donuts crack and break when I tighten them up), I'll try to get a pic later.

Gumby

slather them donuts with 100% clear silicone before assembly and no more leaks.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

... if your studs don't break when you go to change them and you replace them with ones that nuts won't stay tight on (unless you opt for $2 a piece grade 8 locking nuts). Or if your replacement studs won't stay in the manifolds...

Another trick I learned in class is to use an oxy welding torch to heat the flanges so they will seal better. Too bad I don't have one as I could really use it for my catalytic converter's rear flange.

Gumby

donuts always blow out sooner or later, they were used to create service work.

Why Buick didn't use em fpr years and what id do, but the pipe needs re flared.
Its just a pipe to pipe flare like a donut but no donut to blow out.
Just steel to steel.

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

ok thanks fellas iam going to have to wait a week for the doughn ut gaskets i went with the newer ones ! gonna do the vac lines and change the ignition coil today !

have a question about the chips in the ecm .....

1 does it matter if the chip are from a ecm from a 2.8 if iam going to put them in to my 3.1 ecm ?
2 can i get a get a distribtor from a 350 engine bc my distribtor pretty rusty ?
3 do i need to go back and get the whole ecm off the car and will it work on my 3.1 if the ecm is for a 2.8?
thanks again !

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

1 and 3. The ECM in the 2.8 cars is a 1227302, with the exception of some FWD cars, but you have to look hard. The ECM in the 90-92 3.1 cars is a 1227730. The chips and computers DO NOT interchange. The 302 uses 2 separate chips (known as a PROM and CALPAK) for engine control and the 730 has the 2 chips in a one-piece unit, known as a MEMCAL. Also, no, FWD and RWD MEMCALs and PROMs do NOT interchange, as the base timing is 50* off (ask how I know). So, if you're looking for an ECM, you can get one from just about any car having a 3.1 (with the exception of W-bodies, which run the weather-resistant version known as the 727), but you have to swap over your MEMCAL or you're not going anywhere fast.

And 2. Only V6 dizzys work in the V6. And no, you can't swap between the 4.3, 3.8, and our engines, because the mounting bases are different distances away from both the dizzy housing itself AND the camshaft.

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

thanks i found out the ecm chip thing the hard way but it all waz
useless but free!
changed the vac lines and got rid of the stock air filter setup and the orb of power.
it showed major improvement ! but its driveable now thanks for all the help !
still gotta change out the fuel filter and check the fuel pressure.
check the gap on the spark plugs.
iam still wating on the doughnut gakets !

as of now the car has no codes at start up.
but my speedo rpm tach dont work ?
when i drive it for while the ese comes on then it goes off ?
iam try and pull codes today after class !
she runnin better but not great !

any other suggestions fellas ?
thanks for all the help fellas !

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Which of the gauges is it that doesn't work? The speedo or the tach (vehicle speed or engine speed gauge)?

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

both the speedo and the rpm tach ?
iam try and check the sensors today after class when i get home !
from what i understand the gagues are eletronic not the cable driven kind like on my 84 z28 ?
any hints or tips on the wholg gauge thing ?
thanks again fellas !

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Speedo probably doesn't work because of the problem that is causing the code 24... try checking the signals at the ECM wires. You can find a diagram for this at school or I can hopefully remember which wires to probe in the middle connector. What it boils down to is that either one of the signal wires is damaged or broken or the VSS may need to be replaced...

The tach may be disconnected at the coil... The white wire at the coil has a connector that is also used for diagnostics of the system (this is disconnected and instruments used for testing). Check to see that both halves are connected and aren't grounded or anything.

james32219

If its still running rough, you might want to check the fuel injectors. I have an 86 Firebird with the 2.8L and it was running rough and would shut off on me. I replaced tons of parts and finally I pulled out the injectors and the little caps on the tips were all cracked apart and the O rings were shot. So i bought the injector kit from autozone (think it was like $30) and then it ran fine.

P.S. Those fools at Chevrolet and any other place like that are worthless. They did a full diagnostic on my car and couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. They are too familiar with all the new cars and only know how to read a computer screen when your car is throwing out a code. Its better and cheaper just to figure out what the problem is yourself through trial and error than it is to take it to them.

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

hey james thanks i have no choice i gotta take a semester off from auto tech school bc i can afford it and i bills every month i check the fuel pressure it it was ok ! i had a reallyy bad vac leak it was right at the t fitting where the orb of power meets the othe two vac lins all 3 were closed with the engine at idle ! she quite now but she seems stall still but if i step on the clutch she dosent stall ?
iam still puzzled !

james32219

Lol well then I'd say I'm puzzled too my friend. I'm not sure what to tell you it could be. There's always hope though. You just have to keep on trying things until you find something that works. I sorry to hear you have to take time off from school though. Thats a major bummer. I go to college (University of North Florida) and I'd hate to have to take a semester off cuz that just means you have to be there even longer to finish.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Go and get a can of starting fluid and spray it on every vacuum line and every fitting you can. If the engine idle changes, you have a leak there and you know where to patch.

It's too bad you're not going to school any more... You could possibly have been able to use a smoke machine (that is used to test the EVAP system on OBDII cars) to find all of your vacuum leaks.

:edit: A little later in the day, but here are the pics of the donuts. BTW, the old donut, even though it has the notch out of it (which is what happens when the guy at the junk yard cuts the crossover pipe out with an acetylene torch), it still has enough surface area on the front to seal.

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

hey james and maverick i tired the vac spray and nothing no change !
well today i checked the vac lines and the others look ok ! she runs better and now no ese light at all so i let it runs for 15 mins per the idle learn . she ran with out a hitch no stallin great so i cut her off and let her cool down ! fire the car back up and i get a ese code 43 aand a lil stallin but if i engauge the clutch no stalling ??
iam lot i thinking when my dougnut gaskets come in iam going to change the knock sensor thanks for the pics maverick your great !

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Beware of one thing: That SOB'n knock sensor may not want to come out without a fight. Use anti-seize compound on the new one. Also, I know you probably won't want to do this, but I would disconnect the battery just to be on the safe side. That KS is about half an inch away from the positive battery terminal on the starter solenoid. Also, use a drain pan under the engine... the sensor is also the passenger's side coolant drain plug for the engine block. Keep the radiator cap on and you won't lose much coolant.

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

thanks for the info i was looking for ks today just to see what iam gettin into for next weekend . your right i'll keep that in mind when i change it ! thanks again for all your help !

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

thanks again maverick i changed the knock sensor to me it was simpledidnt have a wench or a socket thet would fit on the new or old one so i use so long pliers to get it off ! well the car runs better now but the end of the ks had carbon on it so i was wonder i nned to change my coil next so what should clean the egr and the ehaxust pipe right under it with ?
i think i have to take it all apart to get to the last bolt to get the bracket holdin the
coil on ?
also iam changing the fuel filter this weekend iam addin fuel system cleaner and iam checking the gap on the spark plugs again bc i dont remeber checking the gap on the when i put them in! thanks again !

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

btw my car is throwin a 43 still but it still has a lil stall on braking just a lil ! but i think that will change once i take her out on the road for a long drive thanks again fella for the input !

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Check the signal to the ECM from the KS. If the terminal end of the sensor was the one that was screwed up, you have other problems there (hence the continued coding). If the gunk was on the engine threads, don't worry about it, but you should look into COMPLETELY changing your engine coolant. There is a thread a few down where someone was looking for a 3.1 ECM pinout... I posted a link as to where you can find what ECM pin the knock sensor signal goes to. Resistance test the wire between the ECM and the sensor.

:edit: And, yes, you need to take off the rear alternator bracket, move the AIR divert valve, and remove the EGR valve to get at the front bolt on the coil bracket. And then you need to cut off the 4 rivets holding the coil on (bolts and nuts are provided in the coil package).

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

hey fellaz changed out the coil the bracket was easy ! the swap was stright foward but now the ese light is on now but from staying on is goes on and off but when engine warms up is stays off ! so iam still a lil lodt but this weekend iam gonna check the fuel pressure change the fuel filter and pull the injectors and get a kit if needed ! now she sounds strong and pulls hard but the idle is still a lil funny kinda like its surging et fresh so iam gonna get fresh gas and drop some fuel system treatment seeing that the car sat up a year before i got it ! thanks again fellaz for all the help i'll keep ya updated !

THEBEAST84

iTrader: (2)

happy turkey day fellas
changed out the fuel filter and the doughnut gaskets came in today so after iam done grubbin iam check the plugs and get more gas ! thanks again fellas !