I am finally closing in on the point where I can begin the build up phase on my 2.8/3400 hybrid, I'm just waiting for my head gaskets to arrive (since the 26th of dec......) And have to buy a few more minor parts. Also have to pull one head still, but only thing holding me back is that one impossibly difficult to get a wrench to exhaust manifold bolt on left manifold, in the back and on the bottom when standing in front of the car. (Any suggestions would help as currently the only idea I have is to jack the car up which requires moving it...., or if someone knows the size of the bolt on the bracket holding the manifold to the exhaust, because I thought it would be 13mm like the exhaust manifold bolts and bought a 13mm deep well for nothing...

Anyways, going to be posting random questions about complications I run into, *at the moment I'm wondering what the wires are that were bolted to the backside of my right cylinder head? There's like 5 of them with a ring on the end put over a bolt. *Now for a really stupid question, how do I know which way the heads go on? Obviously the pushrod side of the rocker arms need to be on the inside, but I could still mistakenly put the left head on the right side if I go by just that...

*Crank pulley, how do I make it stop spinning so I can remove the bolt.....same deal with the pulley above it...

*There's a bunch of crap, Idk what, flecks of something, like seeds from a tree maybe, in my lifter valley, basically whats a good way to clean that crap out without getting it into the cylinders, and how can I clean the tops of the pistons with them still in the block? You can see the stuff I'm talking about in the picture, and some of it already fell into the cylinders.

*Distributor shaft hole, I don't know the exact solution to this, I've heard to use an oil pump drive, but isn't that a part I don't actually need? Can't I just use something off of the distributor? Or even just cover the hole with a plate or something?

*Stock crank and pistons, how strong are they? I found out that the stock rods are forged and good to 7k rpm, but am not sure about the crank or pistons, Basically I want to up my rev limiter now that the engine can flow past 5k, but I'm not sure if their were strength limitations behind that rev limit as well.

*Ecm, I need a crash course in them, I'm still not clear on whether or not my computer has to be tuned manually with new prom chips, or whether its the kind that can just be reprogrammed with a laptop, or can it be done either way? So if someone can point me to some info on that or tell me what I need to be able to tune it that would be great....

*Pushrods, if anybody has measured these or knows the length I need to order that would be great...

*Combustion chamber, its a lot deeper on my old 2.8 iron heads...looking at the aluminum heads with a much more shallow combustion chamber I'm concerned my valves will hit the pistons? I know my pistons don't pop up out of the deck, but they come close to almost level, and the valves look like they would go below deck when open, so at what lift, and gasket thinness is this an issue if its not already??

*Gas, for obvious reasons I want to run the lowest octane possible without running into detonation issues, can it run on regular or do I need to go all the way to premium or will the middle octane gas do the trick?

All I can think of for now...
Plenty more random and or stupid questions to come once I have the new heads on if not sooner But you'll all thank me when I write a detailed step by step guide to building a hybrid!

 

I'll try to answer these questions the best I can.

Either head can go on either side.
Wires on the back of the head are ground wires.
to stop the crank from rotating, if you have the tq convertor cover off, put something through one of the hole in the flex plate so that it'll pull up to the bottom of the block as the crank tries to spin and stop it. Or, use an impact wrench on the bolts to brake them loose.
Use a shop vac to suck up the seeds or whatever.
I wouldn't bother with the tops of the pistons. If you really want to though, cover the lifter valley and use a wire brush on the tops of them then shop vac, again.
Dist. hole...use the dumby shaft/oil drive from a 3.4 (contact me if you want one). You have to use it to run your oil pump.
I would worry about the stock pistons before the crank. I forget the numbers I've seen listed for the crank but its pretty hefty. Those pistons will probably be your weak point, though. Especially you they see any detonation.
Your computer will have to be tuned using chips. IF you have the right ecm, you can buy an emulator that will plug in in place of your chip and allow you to "flash" it via a laptop. But, having a 2.8, I'm not sure if your ecm will support that. Do some research on the DIY Prom board on here. I've read lots and lots and lots and still get a little lost with a lot of it, even after doing some tuning on my car.
I'm not sure if you'll see interference between the valves and pistons or not. May depend somewhat on your cam selection. I'm not sure about the CR you're going to end up with, though. seems like it's going to be awefully high!
I would say you'll need atleast premium gas. Depends on what your CR ends up being. I would tend to think that flat top pistons and those combustion chambers almost wouldn't be do-able on pump gas.
Hope this helps some.

 

*Hmm, what about that one bracket on the one head though or bolt holes, will that matter for accessory mounting?
*Thought they were ground wires.....just seems like a really odd place to put such a thing....
*I guess the thing with the oil pump drive though, is Why is that necessary? Not saying you're wrong, I just don't understand the reason for it...Like what does it actually do or lack of it do?
*Is a typical dyno shop going to be able to tune the ECM do you think?
*CR is going to be high, from what I've read its manageable though, just not sure if I can penny pinch on the gas or not with it. Came out to like 12.5:1 or 13.5:1, can't remember, also that was static or dynamic...which ever one is higher, so I guess actual will be bit lower, eventually way down the road I'll have to drop in dished pistons to lower CR for turbocharging...

Anyways, thanks for the help with the ones you knew, also I'll take that oil pump drive off your hands assuming price is reasonable, just let me know how much you want for it, but I might need some time, money is tight atm....been splurging a little bit too much....Still can't believe I already have over $600 into the car,lol. And at least $100 into tools...

 

Got another question, this one is more general
Would true dual exhaust be overkill on a hybrid? I know it would be on a stock v6, but I'm building it up to ~300 hp N/A and then going to throw twin turbos at it, currently I'm shooting for ~200 at the wheels with the hybrid buildup, but I'm pretty sure I'll need a new exhaust to pass inspection, and even if not will still get one because its pretty rusted.
But weight is also a factor here, as is cost, I'd prefer to keep both down, as well as having the car sound good, so if single can flow good enough I'll keep it, just need some input here.

 

The oil pump drive is neccecary, LOL. You want oil pressure, right?

Don't go to a dyno to have it tuned. There's nothing you can do with that ecm anyway. Check it out. You're going to need premium at a minimum. That's a pretty high c/r. Dual exhaust won't hurt a high rpm motor. Let it breathe.

 

the oil pump is driven off of the back of the came, via the distributor. without the dumby shaft/oil pump drive, there will be nothing to turn your oil pump...no oil flow, I think you get it from there. I'll shoot you a PM on the oil pump drive out of my 3.4 later.
A dyno shop will (mostly) only tune for WOT. There is sooooo much more to be done with tuning than simply going as fast as possible.
I would say otherwise on the true duals. IFFF you do decide to go that route, I think I'd use 2" pipes, max. What I did (and so many said this was overkill) was ran old Hooker headers, which have 2-1/4" collectors, into 2-1/4" pipes past the tranny on both sides, then into a single 3" down the tranny tunnel and over the axle...into a flowmaster with dual outlets. As I said, many people told me not to run 3" on a v6 but, I ran it at the strip with the full exhaust system, ran it without the muffler, and ran it without the y-pipe (open headers)...the only difference at all was the noise level! It ran the same times, no matter what! And, I turned it about 6k rpms; launched at 2200 or so (high stall, automatic).
Honestly, I think you'll have problems with even 12:1 compression. Unless you want to run 100 octane or something all the time. Even at that, if the motor is hot and you go to start the car, it'll be hard to get the starter to spin it over. I ran 10.75:1...that's how I know. That's not even mentioning the detonation that ended up breaking 2 pistons over those few years...

 

Yeah, I was reading up on the thread bl85c linked, so once I figure that all out I'm going to be going that route, as for exhaust, I'll just go with a nice stainless steel mandrel bent single with dual tips and headers. As for compression its my understanding that to run that high you have to properly tune the ecm and get a cam designed for high CR, for it to run good anyways.
When you pm me, send a pic of the oil pump drive too if its not too much trouble.

Btw also been wondering what all mods you have into your 3.1 and how much power/tq you put down at the wheels?

 

There is a limit to what's reasonable for CR, though. you can tune the ecm to where you don't get spark knock but, i would imagine you'd have to pull out sooo much timing that it wouldn't run to well because you can't get the spark advance. A good cam will be good, too. But, you won't find a cam that suggests compression higher than, probably 11.5:1 (if that) unless you're looking at race cams (big, serious race cams). I didn't take the time to find facts to back that up but, that should be close.

I'll get you a pic tomorrow. I'll tell you about my mods, also. Gotta go do something else, now, though.

 

Been thinking about seeing if Ben at WOT tech can grind a custom one for it. That or buying the biggest one he sells which recommends 10.5:1 CR or higher. But also that was the higher of the two CR numbers, theres static and dynamic, one is always lower than the other and is the actual real world CR, I just can't remember which that is, but the one I calculate was the higher of the two, and I've read around and people seem to do ok with it. Thing that I'm worried about right now, is whether or not those pistons are going to send a valve through my hood....Still need an answer on that one if anyone has it...

 

Talk to Firstfirebird about this. He has rather extensive knowlege about it. If you search his posts, youll see something about using the stock pistons in a 95 Camaro 3.4 and using 3500 heads with something like 11.5:1 SCR. From what I read this is completely safe as long as the proper cam is selected and theres a good tune on it. But you must tune if you want it to live a happy life.

 

...figured I'd post pics here incase anyone else doesn't understand. just so happens that I have an oil pump laying in the garage, too.

 

as far as my 3.1....
It is no more (do to detonation).
Anyway, it was a 3.1 bored .75mm over (+.030"), about 10.75:1 compression, heavily ported and polished heads, big cam (I forget all of the specs. I had two different ones in it, I liked the first of those two better), 1.6:1 roller tip rockers, underdrive pulleys, prototype intake manifold by McKinney Racing Products, Hooker headers with exh described aboce, 700r4 with high stall convertor and shift kit, and 3.73 posi rear end on 235/60/15 tires.
As far as dyno numbers, I don't know. I had it on a chassis dyno twice and it was only showing like 135 hp at the wheels or something like that. BUT, it ran a 14.97 in the 1/4 mile, with full interior and all (no weight reduction or anything done to the car)....it aint gonna do that only actually putting down those numbers at the wheels. My guess is about 230 at the crank. I do have a video of a 15.13 pass on youtube. somewhere I had the time slip on the 14.97 run. I'd have to look for it now since I've moved and all.

 

Thanks for the info, and the oil pump drive looks identical to the bottom half of my distributor, couldn't one just clearance it by cutting it in half? or does the oil pump drive have an outlet at the top for oil that the dizzy wouldn't?

 

if I'm understanding you correctly, cutting the distributor will leave the top side of it not sealed. Also, may or may not give problems from a lack of bearings or something. I don't know exactly how its constructed. another $15 for the drive? it'll fit in the same box...

 

That how much you had in mind for it? If so I'll take it, just pm me with a shipping quote for 15108 and I'll send it once I get some money into my paypal account assuming you have paypal, otherwise I'll just have to get a check. Let me know.

 

PM sent.

 

Not really the ideal place to put it, but I haven't figured out how to PM photos, heres the box and timing cover, the lid was basically seperated from the box on one side, and the other two parts apparently fell out, I went back over my tracks too to make sure I didn't drop one or that it wasn't just sitting in my parcel box.

 

sending you a PM...

 

I'm gonna stay tuned on this one

 

Project is on hold atm, due to POS DD buick constantly having things break on me.(aka I'm broke atm) worst part is I'm ready to build it back up in terms of the major parts and knowledge needed, all I really need is pushrods, head bolts, and all the gaskets except HGs. And after that just minor details like vacuum hoses. But I'm also holding on the oil pump drive and reluctor wheel I bought, USPS lost them, hopefully they find them and forward to me. If not I'll just have to find them elsewhere I suppose.
At least I finally have the teardown complete.

 

Also realized another potential problem today, am I going to need lifters meant for a 3x00 engine, since the pushrods are at an angle with the 3x00 heads? Also are there any kind of pushrod guides on a 3x00 engine or no?

 

you'll use your 2.8 lifters, and you'll need to measure for pushrod length since most likely you'll need custom ones.

as for guide plates, only the 93/94/95 3100 heads had them, 96 and newer heads all have roller fulcrum rockers so no guides are needed.


Some people have gotten away with using stock pushrods for a gen2 3.1/2.8 but they're giving up lift, preload and proper geometry.

 

I thought the gen 2 pushrods worked right? Don't they have our non roller cams/lifters, but with roller rockers for arms??
But at least I now know I can use my current lifters and don't have to hunt down guide plates. But if I'm wrong about the gen 2 rods, I'll have to break down and buy a pushrod checker I guess, I'm not taking chances with a high CR and high RPM engine..
Just one thing though about measuring for length, do I use an average length or get individually different length pushrods or what? This is my first time rebuilding an engine, so I'm in a tad bit over my head, but I like to challenge myself...

 

Also another concern of late, do you guys think my timing chain/sprocket and small journal(early year) crank will hold up to the abuse of high CR? Also I was looking at crower's cranks the other day, they have one for our engines, anyone know how strong their cranks are? or the eagle ones that summit offers?

 

the gen2 engines use the same rockers as the iron heads (or similar enough) so no, they aren't roller.


I wouldn't use that crank and you should always replace the timing set. I don't remember if you can use the newer cranks in those old blocks or not but I'd seriously consider using a newer 2.8, 3.1 or 3.4 for this build. A decent cam will also help you make the most of those great flowing heads.



5.95" intake and 6.26" exhaust is a pretty common measurement for hybrid pushrods.

 

RS, what year is your car, and what part of the top end swap doesn't allow for the use of a dizzy? I glanced through the sticky about hybrids and didn't see why.

 

the dizzy won't clear the gen 3 lower and upper intakes.


someone was able to make a custom one by extending the shaft a few inches so that it sits above the upper intake, i think that was in a truck so they had more room then we would.

 

1985, and from what I just heard from Maverick(hes doing a hybrid atm too) when they switched to MPFI they switched to the larger journal cranks, in which case I'll be fine.
As for the dizzy what purple GTA said