V6 Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.

Changed injector this weekend...

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Old Mar 9, 2010 | 06:13 PM
  #1  
ken3983's Avatar
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From: reidsville,nc,usa
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula 350
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt Borg Warner 3.27 gears
Changed injector this weekend...

...still running rich though. My brother helped me change them out, so things went a little easy. I wanted him to lay them out in the right firing order to check them out with a meter later. Finally, after putting them in, it ran pretty smooth at idle but still rich according to the scanner. We had the battery disconnected while we did it, so at least the ECM was cleared out. I went through the re-learn process just in case. Nope. Still rich. So, I ohmed out the injectors that were taken out. 3 ohmed at 12.5 to 12.6. The other 3, however, ohmed at 9.5 or less! The injectors were'nt in the right firing order when they were laid down. ASSUMING.. that the 3 bad ones were on one side of the engine, what would be a good place to look for trouble. Injector harness or just bad wiring down the line? New ECM, so maybe that rules out the injector drivers.

Ken
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Old Mar 9, 2010 | 06:26 PM
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Drew's Avatar
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From: Salina, KS
Re: Changed injector this weekend...

Injectors don't short out because of wiring. They short because the stock Multecs are junk. They go bad ALL THE TIME. You've probably got two different problems. Replacing the injectors cured the faulty injector issue. Now you have to figure out why the car is running rich. How old is the O2 sensor?
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Old Mar 9, 2010 | 06:40 PM
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ken3983's Avatar
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From: reidsville,nc,usa
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula 350
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt Borg Warner 3.27 gears
Re: Changed injector this weekend...

The O2 sensor is only about 3 weeks old. I had it replaced the same time I had a Magnaflow cat put on. The old one never reached as high as the new one does. The new one reached to over 1000 mv. The old one may have went bad on the lean side. I had posted earlier that the CCP is purging all the time so I'm sure it's related somewhere. New IAC, Ign. coil, map and 02. The only thing left is tps and iat sensor. Doubt it would make any difference by changing out the tps. Would'nt explain the CCP purging all the time, so I need to do some research.

Ken
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Old Mar 9, 2010 | 06:55 PM
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Drew's Avatar
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From: Salina, KS
Re: Changed injector this weekend...

Are you getting a trouble code or something else indicating it's running rich? Are the plugs fouling out or does the exhaust smell like gas?
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Old Mar 10, 2010 | 03:56 PM
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Maverick H1L's Avatar
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From: LeRoy, NY
Car: 2003 Hyundai Tiburon GT
Engine: 2.7L V6
Transmission: 6-speed
Axle/Gears: 4.41
Re: Changed injector this weekend...

Have you checked the O2S circuit by grounding the sensor's pigtail? Have you disconnected the charcoal can from the engine yet?
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Old Mar 10, 2010 | 05:27 PM
  #6  
ken3983's Avatar
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From: reidsville,nc,usa
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula 350
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt Borg Warner 3.27 gears
Re: Changed injector this weekend...

The ECM throws a code every once and awhile and its always a code 45. The evap can is disconnected from the throttleboady and its connector has been taken off the can as well. So that isolates the evap can. I haven't tested the O2 pigtail connector yet, but that is a thought and worth checking out. The BLM is still at 100, so its still runnig rich. I changed out the egr with another used one, but didn't make any differrence. However, the CCP went form OFF to ON for a brief second but stayed OFF from then on. My knock sensor was at 7, so I had it at base 10 and decided to take it down to 6 for desperation just to try anything. After the road test, at idle the O2 sensor would go from 980 down to 550 or so very quick and the INTEGRATOR would drop from 128 to 88 just as fast as the O2 sensor. The ECM kicked in to make the INTEGRATOR go back to 128. The only sensor that hasn't been replaced is the CTS. I know it impacts the fuel system, so its worth a shot. On a side note, is it possible the plate with the timing marks on it may have moved rom where it needs to be? Any way to check?

Ken
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Old Mar 10, 2010 | 05:35 PM
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Maverick H1L's Avatar
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From: LeRoy, NY
Car: 2003 Hyundai Tiburon GT
Engine: 2.7L V6
Transmission: 6-speed
Axle/Gears: 4.41
Re: Changed injector this weekend...

I doubt the timing indicator moved... If anything, the outer ring on the damper slipped time and that could make the timing marks off from where they're supposed to be.

Check the resistance of the CTS when the engine is cold and you know the ambient air temperature.

:edit: Better yet, using the scanner, find out what the coolant temp supposedly is as according to the ECM... If it's something ridiculous (-130*F or something like that) and the engine is stone cold, you know you have a problem.

Last edited by Maverick H1L; Mar 10, 2010 at 10:39 PM.
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Old Mar 14, 2010 | 07:39 PM
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ken3983's Avatar
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 504
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From: reidsville,nc,usa
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula 350
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt Borg Warner 3.27 gears
Re: Changed injector this weekend...

I checked the CTS with the scanner on an overnight cold engine. It read 52 degrees and the MAT read 55 degrees so seems the CTS is ok. The CTS gradually increased with engine temp. so I'm eliminating that. I'm going to replace the FPR because thats the only thing that I know to do to the fuel system. I also unhooked the connector going to the evap can and did a continuity check on it with my meter. I unplugged the ECM and the wire had continuity between the ECM and the connector on the evap. That tells me at least its not broke in between somewhere. The evap gets power via the pink/black wire so thats good as well. I don't get an EGR failure, but it still can be a bad egr pintle or something. I might take this thing to a dealer and get it over with. The CCP never cycles from off to on and thats probably the reason (related) why I'm running rich.

Ken
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