deadbird

done about an hour ago, doing a 450 pre cure (to dry) on them now. we'll do the down pipe after fixing it.

project89

iTrader: (1)

btw dont know how good this is but its cheap
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/93-94...item23090b5f11

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

its rated higher than the paint that was on there so i imagine it will be fine. pretty much all of techlines coatings are 1200 and up. i wouldve went with the turbo-x coating but i didnt want black or blue and thats all they come in

lol i didnt even notice the other posts, looks good man

deadbird

that's cheaper than my RAM cluth when I got it...

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

was there a rating on that clutch? honestly if im gonna get a clutch im gonna get something i know is gonna work. i dont want to have to install another clutch anytime in the near future

unless someone wants to buy that one and send it to me, ill give it a shot for free ha ha

project89

iTrader: (1)

contact the guy see what they say and if they will warenty it just dont tell him u hae a turbo car lol

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

haha well i dont want to change clutches every month warranty or not

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

heres a couple progress pictures, i like it way better in aluminum than in the black, what do you all think?

project89

iTrader: (1)

very nice man

deadbird

I think it looks like s--t... to much 'bling'.
Next you'll have non-functional vents on your
fenders and painted white accents in your interior....

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Deadbird, you using aluminum oxide to blast those parts?

Dave, I thought you had a TIG welder, those pipes appear to be MIG'd?



I use Columbia Coatings as my ceramic supplier...

project89

iTrader: (1)

i do but i didnt do his car at the shop, i went out to his house,we ended up doing his car in deadbirds garage,everything is miged.

ill tell u what once u get used to a gas mig and tig welding for many years going back to a flux cored mig welder is not easy lmao. it tookme a lil bit to get used to the flux cored wire

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

You ain't kidding. I welded some intake piping on the GRM BMW race car last week with one and just for fun, we put a coupler on one end with a beer can in it to stop it up, then a pce of PVC on the other end with an air fitting/coupler on the other end and charged it with about 30psi and holy cow! It looked like a tub fill of Sprite haha. We ground the welds down and I brought the pipes to my shop to be sealed up on the Syncrowave

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

hahaha your a funny man

deadbird

I use a 90-110 grit alum ox for blasting coated parts. In general, glass bead is bad for doing most coatings that are adhesion based.

There was an offer to use MIG wire prior to the start of the project.... I know very well how tough flux is to use on butt joints and 18ga and thinner metal. You can still get good welds out of flux though.

I've bought a few PC items from Columbia but, since I don't do massive amounts of of coating, I never really looked into them for ceramics. I've just always used TechLine. I may have to check up on that though.

I had to kind of mod the downpipe as there is no way in hell it would have fit back in the way it was with a flange on it. So far, so good. The new angle also moves it comfortably away from the HVAC box and hard heater lines (frame rail, starter, etc).

project89

iTrader: (1)

nice job on the coating and downpipe . i was going to say that a pieceof flexpipe put into the crossover will make things easier going back together, but its kind of late for that now lol

deadbird

Thanks Dave. Actually, I fixed that center bolt hole on the passenger side so now, it bolts up in roughly 2 minutes (do'nt even have to use a single word of profanity. haha). Aside from cramped space on and around a tiny motor, it's going back together pretty well.

project89

iTrader: (1)

what was it flange rotate off center?

deadbird

Bottom bolt hole was .0001" too far down. Just enough to **** everyone off.

That said.... down and i-pipes fixed and coated.... I was going to post what was cut off but, I'll save that for a rainy day

project89

iTrader: (1)

lmao that .001 of an inch sure did cause alot of cursing and frustration lmao

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

looks good man, sucks that we are in a drought lol

deadbird

A shame indeed...
Anyways... x-over... again..

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

looks way better under there now, it so bling the camera is like daaaaaaaaaanmmmg im assuming the gaskets went on good?

by the way my brain was fried today and that text you sent me for some reason didnt make any sense lol

deadbird

I had to file the bolt holes outward to the edg but,ok otherise.

I fixed that pos earl level sensor too, no more leaking.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

How'd you fix it?

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

well heres a pic of the parts all coated and installed, uploaded the new tune file to the ecm tonight, if the weather cools off some ill probably take it out tomorrow and do some datalogging.

AM91Camaro_RS

just curious why yall didn't coat the ex housing on the turbo? the rest of it looks good, though!

deadbird

I believe eventually a heat shield of some sort will be bought/made to put on it to help protect the hood. The main goal for the round was to fix minor detail issues, exhaust and pre-existing oil leaks (which was the oil level sensor generously coating everything under the car with poor mans rust protection.. ).

AM91Camaro_RS

lol. got ya. I used one of those rubber expanding gromets in the oil level sensor hole. is that too low for the oil drain back for the turbo?

deadbird

I was going to have Pills get a brass pipe plug at Lowes until I removed it and took the sawzall to it (to get the sensor guys out) and discovered it's a steel fitting. I was just going to JB weld it but, I put a bolt in it to fill space and then ran some wire out on it. A little grind and paint and it makes a nice plug for the hole that now doesn't leak.
As best I can remember, Dave stated (during the project) that the return has to be above the normal oil level in the pan otherwise, it won't drain back properly. Unless you decide that only 2-3 quarts of oil is plenty, I suppose... lol

I'm not certain the return has to be quite as high as what's on the car but, I'd guess, the further up, the better..

project89

iTrader: (1)

yes the oil return has to be up as high as possible on the pan .and also u want to keep it on the driver side of the pan or u risk the crank blowing oil up into the drian line causing the turbine side to leak oil into the ex

nice job deadbird

if u still have the time coating the intercooler pipes will help keep the airtemps down even further by preventing heatsoak though the polished aluminum tubing does look pretty good the way it is

let me know when u get those datalogs, i need them of alot of crusing around at diff rpms steady crusing at varying speeds etc,just rember if it acts up real bad while u r out on the new tune just pull over and swap back in the original base tune

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

The 1.6 tune file isn't right for some reason, car started but ran like crap, it wouldnt idle and if i touched the gas it went way lean and almost died. i didnt even attempt to drive it like that. i had left my laptop at home but I'm gonna go back to the safe tune and re-datalog from there now that all the issues are fixed.

project89

iTrader: (1)

HMM THATS VERY ODD THE CHANGES FROM 1.5 TO 1.6 (opps dam caps key)
are minor on the fuel mapping it shouldnt have made a big change in the way the car runs, though i did make some changes to the cold start enrichments.

did u let the car warm up completly and see if it got better ?

also did u change the plugs over to the standard delcos and i know this is a dumb ? but do u have the plug wires on right

project89

iTrader: (1)

im going to go over the 1.6 files just to be sure nothing is mis set but go back to my basetune and start dataloging form there, will be much easier now that there is no ex leak upstream of the 02 sensor

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

might be the cold start enrichments that are the problem. i didnt let it run long as it was surging pretty bad, just didnt seem like a good idea to let it run any longer as i was going to let it warm up and see what happened. yes i did change over to the standard delcos one range down and gapped. the plug wires are on right as i did one at a time to prevent me from making that mistake

ill be going over to kev's in a couple hours or so to put the base tune on and see what happens from there. also putting the radiator overflow on woohoo, so now absolutely no leaks

project89

iTrader: (1)

if it does it with the base tune data log it as well so i can see whats going on

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

will do, i have a feeling the cold start enrichments are gonna be a huge pain in the ***

project89

iTrader: (1)

cold start isnt to bad to do but u only get one shot at it,and then u have o wait till the engine cools down all the way again to try again. not to mention cold start enrich isnt just shooting for a simple target afr. its gota add enough fuel to keep the motor running no matter what afr it needs which will vary greatly depending on the tempurature.

there is a warmup wizard u can use which allows u to adjust the cold start enrichments as the motor is warming up but when i was there the outside temp was just to high for the motor to get cold enough to set them . ill see if i cant take some screen shots of how to set them as the car is warming up.

also i thought of one thing.the way u said the car ran like ****, im assuming super rich at idle. make sure the map sensor line is connected on bot the motor side and the ecm side. if this line gets torn or pulled off the ms ecu will see 0 vacum and be adding tons of fuel. much like the first time i fired the motor up and forgot to hook up the map sensor line .

or just data log the startup and ill be able to see in the data log if its hooked up or not if u dont know were we pluged it into cause i myself forgot lol

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

i sent you the files in an email. no it was runing way lean and trying to die not going rich at all really. i went back to the files that we had loaded the day you left and its running pretty good, its the best tune of all the files. everything is connected fine its was just something in the tunes

what was the megasquirt message boards?

project89

iTrader: (1)

it was a mixup in the files i just downloaded the files ur using now and the datalog ill have something posted up for u later tongiht. i think its msefi.com fopr the ms forums

project89

iTrader: (1)

lkooks liek its runnning good, need to smooth th maps and bring the afrs up slightly when it in boost over 5 psi since its running a tad rich up there. also need to add in some ignition advance to start bringing the power on.

but all in all the original tune file i did really looks good,hows the car feel?
btw i see it comes up on boost much sooner now that theres no ex leak check out this shot fromthe data log



2 psi of boost at a measly 1800 rpms part throttle,, part of that is the limited timming causing alot of heat spining up the turbo uber fast so it wont spool as fast when i start adding in more advance but it will make more power.

right now it has a measly 15-16* timing under boost until about 4500 rpms were i steped it up to 17/18* but since the clutch slips u cant even get it up into that area

from my best quess as it sits with ur part throttle runs ur using about 50% of the injector which would work out to around 275 ish hp and u aint even gone full throttle yet

im going to bump timming a few degrees and lean out the cruise area a lil bit ur running like 14.4-15.0 afr in cruise id like to get that around 15.5 to almost 16.0 afr is possible

i also need to lean out upper boost map abovr 7 psi ur droping into the 10.5-11.2 afrs which is really safe but no good for making power im going to bring those into the 12.0-12.3 area for now

ill have files for u later tongiht or tommorow morning

project89

iTrader: (1)

enjoy

deadbird

Even with the horrid surging the other night, when it started to pull, it started to pull. That poor clutch though.... if it has a smilie, I think it would be this one - or, this -
I also did quite a bit of die grinding to radius the sharp edges and port match all the pieces. The flange on the turbo had to be the worst match of all. So, the exhaust side should have a lot smoother journey through the pipes (I'll assume making it slightly more efficient as well.. ?). Weather it matters or not, all the sharp edges just kind of bothered me and, it was all apart anyways.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah 2.5 inch tubing does not match up to a t3 flange 2.25 is much closer and even at that its to big 2 inch really matches up well, 2.5/3 inch should be used with a t4 flange

i had him use the 2.5 inch so he could upgrade down the road since this turbo will be maxed in no time at all

every lil bit helps though.the surging was caused by a mis configured o2 sensor setup trying to change the afrs to 14.7. when iw as was working ont he tune files i somehow mixed up files with steves.lil organizing of the files in my megasquirt folder fixed that.
but the tune i did while i was there is pretty close so few more data logs and we should be good on the tune time will tell once he gets a clutch and can go wot though.

since u said it pulled on the base tune i did wait till he uploads this new tune,no real changes in it except i bumped up the ignition timming a few degrees.before i bump anymore timming he needs to verify the trigger is set dead on in the dizzy, bassically he needs to hookup the laptop and goto the spark table page and set were there car is idling to 10* and verify this with a timming light.

say he does that and its actually showing 12* well if thats the case when i command 19* under boost it would actually be 21* so im sure u can see how this can be an issue

ill have to take some screen shots of how he can set it and verify it so he can get that done soon

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

got this error when trying to load ms file

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

well just got done datalogging the new tune, it ran pretty good, startup still needs work but other than that it ran strong till the clutch yelled you are

i got into it slightly coming down an off ramp and the clutch gave up almost instantly, poor thing i kind of feel bad lol

for the first time yesterday with wet tires i let it eat up into 3rd gear and i actually smelt screaming burning clutch disc...man i cant wait to actually have a clutch, minus the whole breaking other stuff thing

Edit: and now for something completely different...lol i just saw this on tv and laughed my butt off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pdeWiFlG9o

project89

iTrader: (1)

im not sur eon that eeror msg never goten that one before, ill check out the data logs how did the car feel any better then the base tune? with more timing it should have had a bit more power

project89

iTrader: (1)

new tune file doubt ur clutch is going to like this one.

also tell me if it starts up any better on this file as i pulled a lil bit of fuel enrichment out of the cold start, hard to tell from the data logs since the wideband wasnt warmed up but from the rest of the logs looks like its just to rich when its cold.

i bumped some more timming into this one and also added/took away some fuel on the fuel map were it was lean/rich


alo included in this folder is a special spark map. when the engine is cold i need u to mark the timming tab at 12* and also mark ur balancer so its easy to read witht he timming light.

then get the engine warmed up to 160* + shut the engine off and load in the special ignset spark table and let the car idle on that table(setignsparktbl.vex) then hit the balancer with the timming light and see if the timming light is showing 12* if i is then its all good, if its not u have to adjust the dizzy till it shows 12* and then lock it down so it dont move. once ur done reload the new2spark.vex do not drive around on the setignsparktbl.vex

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

yeah it ran pretty good, i didnt really notice anything unusual. if you noticed i took it out on the interstate for a bit as well and it ran smooth at highway speeds(or what i think was highway speeds lol damn speedo) im pretty sure i was cruising at 65 and not in boost. its hard to tell if it is much stronger as the clutch doesnt really let me test it any.

cool ill probably work on all that in a week or so, im working a 6 day week so i probably wont do much else for a bit. i might be wrong but i think its set to 8* base id have to check though


ordered a buffer box today so that i can fix ye ole speedometer, its not comforting to be driving around and not really knowing how fast im going..looks like that will be an easy fix and only cost me 12 bucks

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah the tune looks pretty good besdiies some tweaking to get the afrs under boost dead on.right now above 5 psi its just a bit rich. and a few crusie areas are a tad rich and a few spots are a lil lean. im pretty sure i set base at 10 and if u unhook the relay from the dizzy it should read 10. but thats not what needs to be verified.need to verify that what i specify in the advance table is what the actual advance is. in that setup table i set all the timing cells to 12* so no matter what rpm or map sensor reading the motor is at the timming should basically be locked to 12* with that map. that was the simplest way i could figure out to have u verify that the timming is right as we never had a chance to check it after we got the car running decent. i only had the one shot to verify it while cranking the motor. so we need to be sure that that number is on. the buffer box is great i need to get u a diagram so u can also hook a vss input to the megasquirt once u do that this will open up speed based variable boost control, traction control and a ton of oher features u can implement down the road.not to mention having a speed reading in the data logs helps out a great deal when it comes to tunning . the vss input to the ms is only one wire so its real easy to do i just need to look threw the manual and find out what pin it connects to ive been trying to see if i can find u other clutch options but havent turned anthing else up other then the ebay clutch and the spec options as far as breaking other parts i may have a cheaper alternative to the tko600 for you the speedway motors trans adapter that mars is using will alow u to use any v8 manual trans,the adapter is 60 bucks and if u can come up with a used t56 u could save money over the tko600 even with the few upgrades done to the t56 as far as the drive shaft just keep using stock steel shafts we used to build chromoly 3 inch shafts for the 3rd and 4th gens while the shafts themselves are indestructable unless u spend big big bucks on custom billet yokes for the trans and rear u are stuck using the smaller u joints which now become the weak link. and well the rear its a gamble mine has a spool in it and i run slicks alot,not to mention countless passes down the track with 1.7 60 ft times on slicks and its still going strong.orroc has his twin turbo car into the 9's on a stock 10 bolt now for a while and his still lives, while other ppl make one pass and shatter the dam things with mostly stock motors go figure