That idea has been scrapped. What I thought was the 7x boss was merely a lump of some crud on the side of the block, and I guess I have one of the early cranks that doesn't have the reluctor in the center disc. Blasted GM!

Silly me, thinking I could save $200 not buying that bleeping external reluctor wheel from WOT-Tech...

Got the engine out. Got it flipped. Got the pan off and ready for the scrap heap (it's rusted to crap). Got the oil pump and screen off along with the damper and timing cover. Can't seem to get that blasted crankshaft timing gear off . Guess I need to get another puller (the one I have is apparently too big). Going to get that tab off of the timing cover soon enough so I can put the intake and stuff on long enough to blast the crap off of the outside of the assembly. Found out that it's a good thing I'm redoing the bottom end now as I found some small metal shavings stuck in the oil pump screen.

 

Sounds rough, might I ask why you are trying to get the timing gear off though? unless its to put a new one on or get the crank machined you shouldn't need to, and probably the machine shop could get it off. If it make you feel any better my driver side floorpan is shot to hell with rust =/ And some other more minor issues, I did finally get it running again though, but I think one of the fuel lines was leaking, will have to take a look next time I'm up at the car.

 

I replaced the timing set 30K ago when I swapped in the T5... Just didn't have the tools to get the crank gear off then, and apparently don't now . So, I have a timing chain and cam gear with 30K on them and a brand new crank gear doing nothing... Funny thing is that the crank gear (that's on there now) is factory GM (as stamped on the front)

 

If it makes you feel any better I have a brand new crank gear as well and am also stuck with an old one on the crank, idk if its original or not though, but generally its the chain that wears out, not the gears, so I wouldn't worry about, it does bug me though cause I'm somewhat ****..

 

Well, I would skip it, but like I said, it's been 30K since I put the new chain on, and I have absolutely no idea how many miles or hours this engine has on it (junkyard swap by a shop no longer in business and I never saw the JY receipt). Plus, I do run the engine a little on the hard side, and I believe in the saying "it's better to be safe than sorry" .

 

You need a bearing splitter to start removing the sprocket and heat to put it back on. Or if you're VERY careful you can cut a slot in it and pop it with a chisel to split the sprocket.

 

Oh, goody... Looks like another trip to Harbor Freight is in order...

Problem with going there is I'm like a kid in a candy store in there and usually end up spending too much . Already spent half of my tax return and haven't even gotten any car parts other than the MegaSquirt on order .

 

Heh, I think that happens to us all when we go there.

 

I have used 2 and 3 jaw pullers to remove the crank sprocket. It's just getting it moving that can be difficult, once it breaks free it sides off relatively easily.

 

I'll have to go out and get a smaller puller. It's just too big (the largest one, a 6") to get behind the gear properly. I think I originally bought it for trans work and not for the crank gear.

Does anyone have any recommendations for oil pan gaskets? My neighbor gave me one that he said was for a 2.8 S10, but it looks nothing like what I took off of the 3.1 (rubber with thick ends over the front and rear bearing caps). Also, what would be the best way to clean up the engine without either a hot tank or using those cheap crud foam cans? I'm thinking of my pressure washer, as there is a ton of loose paint and crud, but during the middle of winter? I still need to get a large container of sorts to soak the heads and intake in Simple Green, but I doubt that the entire engine would fit...

 

What is it you need to clean? And no do NOT pressure wash it, you don't wash an engine with water, it will rust, its hard to make suggestions without knowing what specifically your cleaning, but kerosene and black magic work pretty well.

 

Umm... I need to get the crap off of the OUTSIDE so I can get it ready for coating/paint... I've got the timing cover off and I'll grind off that annoying tab so I can put the intake on (finally) and get everything closed up (use the old oil pan, of course).

 

Take my word for it, if you want it to turn out even halfway decent, you have to have the block media blasted or baked or w/e by a machine shop, I cleaned mine as best I could with kerosene and a wire brush...paint just didn't stick very well.

 

I've washed a number of blocks with water, and have never experienced a rust issue.

I would use a degreaser of some sort first though.

The pan gasket you have may be for a different year or generation of 660.

 

Well if you dried it off fast you shouldn't but its still not something I would risk...I've seen whats happened to my dead 2.8 block from sitting outside where it gets rained on, not a pretty sight. Reminds me I need to get rid of that thing and esp my old hood sitting at my friends apt....

 

There is a significant difference between washing an object using water and letting an object get rained on and exposed to the elements.

 

It didn't take long, and it is a dead(its cracked along a coolant and oil passage) block, just saying that personally I wouldn't wash an engine part with water, if you leave engine parts out long enough, even if they don't get rained on the moisture from the air can start to make them rust. Was just my 2 cents.

 

You're supposed to wash the bores with soapy water after honing to get rid of the grit...

 

I would use kerosene or oil....but I am somewhat paranoid about rust because my floorpan has a huge hole in it, as well as a gash, a hole or two in the rear right quarter, body had some surface rust that I put rust converter on and primered over and not a year later it is resurfacing, rust is just kind of one of my "demons" and I just wouldn't clean an engine internal with water, once again, its just my personal feelings on the matter.

 

Who said I was cleaning the engine INTERNALS with water? You don't paint those...! I can't paint the block with all of the oil and crud on the OUTSIDE. I'm going to put the covers back on and let the outside have it good. The internals will probably clean themselves (they look a lot better, at least the lifter valley, now than they did when the 3.1 was first put in due to regular maintenance with Valvoline oil...).

Funny part is that I had a 2.8 FWD block I just got rid of a few months ago that I picked up at school 3 years ago now... Never really had a cover over it (plastic I wrapped it in broke through in a few spots) except the 3100 heads, and it looked like it did the day I brought it home when I dropped it off at the scrap yard, no rust in the bores or anything. Crank, which I still have, has surface rust on the crank pins, but not the journals. I've kept the block covered with the 3100 heads and under my hood, which is under my car cover. Not a drop of water under the hood. You guys act like I'm an idiot or something... I KNOW what watery internals does to an engine (my 2.8...).
The ONLY thing I am going to do with the internals is change the bearings and oil pump screen. None of the pistons are coming out of the bores due to the fact that they don't need to. My compression is good in all 6 (high in a couple due to valve oil leaks) and I'm going to leave the rings alone. Other than that, this is merely a gasket change along with the head/intake swap, along with getting rid of the leaking oil pan gasket and rusty, cruddy-looking oil pan. I have oil all over the place under my car, on the bellhousing, on the back of the engine (behind the flywheel, which is also getting replaced), and all over the transmission, and I've decided to eradicate the leak(s) once and for all now that everything is getting torn apart anyways. I'll worry about the cam bearings and stuff after the MSII is tuned for the 3100 parts (because I can't break in a cam and tune the MSII at the same time).

Now, enough of the rant and for the update: DIYAutoTune has reported that my MSII has been shipped from GA, should be here early next week. Ordered and paid for the oil pump drive last night. Will finish wiring up the harness when I get the loom, which I also paid for last night, and whenever I can get one of my 3 other PC's to boot properly (as I need one of them for tuning the MSII and they're taking up a good deal of space in the basement, being all torn apart and all, and there is no room at current for working on the harness).

 

I wasn't suggesting you would, I was merely explaining to the other two that I wouldn't clean any metal part of my engine with water, and that even if other people do or suggest I personally would still opt to use something else.

Btw have you checked what CR you will have with those heads? Not sure if you plan on swapping pistons or not but it sounds like you plan on keeping the 3.1 RA, I'm not sure offhand but I think the CR will be too high with that setup.

 

I've checked the static and dynamic CR with a couple websites' CR calculators... Dynamic is supposed to be around 9.75 or so, IIRC, and static is about 10.5. Had to redo a couple calcs in Dyno2000... Apparently, for a dished piston, Dyno2K likes to have a negative number for piston height relative to the deck if the piston stops below deck height at TDC, but it works normally for the 2.8 non-dished pistons (positive number for "piston below deck at TDC" ). Checked with the 3100 numbers from 60*V6.com as well as the 3.4's numbers, and that's the way Dyno2K works. The numbers it spits out are pretty close to the numbers posted at 60*.

I'm hoping to get the engine at least partially cleaned up next week (supposed to thaw out up here for a couple of days).

Anyone know the average cost of having the block decked? I'd like to get it apart and take about 10 thousandths off of the deck to get the quench in line, but if it's going to be too much, I don't think I'll bother. Also, does anyone other than project89, who hasn't been around in a while, do head porting and other work? I'd like to get the heads/intake P&P'd and the valve guides/seals checked (so that I don't burn a quart of oil every 2000 miles like I do now and end up replacing the valve seals and guides later).

 

I'll have the MSII tomorrow... It arrived in Rochester (main PO around here) this afternoon. Still don't have a working PC to hook it up to .

Now that I think about it, I do want the block rusty on the outside. I'm not going to use cheap-crap engine paint in a can that's going to flake off in a year or so. I'm going to use a coat of Rust Bullet with Blackshell over it. Won't chip or rust really bad that way, and it will be easier to clean as a result. Might as well do it that way, as everything in the engine bay will be as well. Rust Bullet won't adhere well to a surface that isn't either chemically etched (as in POR-15 Metal Ready) or rusty.

Finally decided on an exterior paint color. My sister got her lawsuit settled and bought herself a 2011 Malibu. Its exterior is Charcoal Metallic. That's what color she's going to be whenever I can get the exterior finished.

 

Finished building the MSII and have the harness almost done with the exception of the second O2S wiring and the EST module wiring... Harness has been re-loomed in Red. Have no way to test the MSII at the moment as I need to get another couple of processors for the stimulator, that I have no idea how the original got fried (no RPM signal output at the moment and the other outputs are screwy as well for some reason).

Having trouble finding a metal intake manifold gasket set at a reasonable price ($100+ at most places)... Can I get away with using the other kind temporarily? There is a full 3100 gasket set I'm watching on eBay (includes everything from top to bottom and front to back) for $80, but I'm pretty sure the gaskets aren't the revised metal design, and I'm definitely going to have to swap out the crap graphite head gaskets for the FelPros I've been using.

Cleaned the engine and engine bay last week, no pics, but I do have pics of the invisible engine mod... I can't believe the amount of crap I got off of the outside of the engine. YUCK! Going to go and get a box and Simple Green so I can soak the oily crud off of the upper end parts while I'm working on the lower end. Looking to find a gear puller for cheap to get that factory timing gear off of the crank.

 

I used the original plastic style gaskets in my 3.2L Turbo build and didn't have any issues with them.

 

Cheapo plastic gaskets it is for the time being then . Still need to get the FelPro head gaskets and the oil pan gasket, though (not quite sure if the 3100 one will work and I'd rather be safe than spewing oil worse than I am now) . Also still need to get head and intake bolts (have maybe a dozen top end bolts in total thanks to the guy I bought the top end from ) and also oil pan bolts (half of them are partially stripped and they all look like crap).

 

Question: What bearings go first in these things, crank or cam? If I hadn't said before, I found a couple metal shavings stuck to the old oil pump screen. I've changed the crank bearings, even though I haven't really examined them too well, I didn't see much in the way of major damage when I removed them (and yes, I do know what wiped bearings look like as I changed out a set in a Chrysler 2.5). Is there a way to check the cam bearings without removing them (and without a bore gauge)? Or should I just send the block to have the cam bearings changed regardless? I'm going to start calling around tomorrow to get some quotes (even though I know I probably won't be able to afford it right now).

 

I'm wanting to say the cam bearings should be the LAST bearings to go, I recall Dave when he helped me build my 2.8 say that cam bearings didn't really ever need replaced unless something was wrong, I'm thinking rod bearings would go first, followed by crank, then cam, as far as checking them without pulling them, you can probably tell by pulling the cam itself and looking at the bearing lobes or w/e the circle disk parts that sit in the bearings are called.

 

Looking at the cam itself would do no good... The bearing materials are designed to be softer than the crank, rods, cam, etc (copper and nickel are a couple of the metals in the bearing shells... Found that out in a WAY old automotive book). Which is why the bearing shells get wiped out long before the shaft and attaching parts do. I guess I'll have to get the bearings that I have out cleaned up and look at them tomorrow, if I can find them all. I don't even know what order they went in now. I'll also have to pick up an inspection mirror before I go to pull the cam so I can look at each of the bearings. Reason why I was wondering is that I know that the 3100 is notorious for having bearing problems associated with oil pressure and the cams will lock or snap long before anything happens to the crank.

 

Anyone need a set of standard size main bearings (not used just installed and clearances checked)? I need either one or 2 sizes undersize (GM bearings say .016" undersize) as my current main oil clearance is about .040", way out of spec. I can either get .010 or .020 undersize bearings... Should I go for the .010 bearings to get me on the edge of being in spec, or should I get the .020 bearings and be just inside the lower end of the tolerance (.015 to .032")?

 

How did you measure this? And what do you want for them?

 

Plastigage and the fact that the GM bearings are marked .016 on the back. I don't even remember what I paid for them, but they finally came out of the plastic wrapping and box a couple days ago, and I can get new ones for $40, so I'm asking $20 shipped (that's a better deal than Rock Auto). I'll clean them as best I can (got some oily finger prints on them ATM) before I wrap them in plastic and put them back in their box again. It's a little late to take them back since I think I bought them back in 2005 or 6 (bought with my timing set which I installed with the T5 back in April of 06). I was hoping they would work (and that I didn't throw away some $30 or so). I haven't checked the rods yet, but the GM bearings weren't marked oversize, so I'll pull a cap in the morning and check.

Keep in mind these are STANDARD size bearings...

 

Nother question... Looking to increase the stock 3100 fuel pressure... How? Do I need an inline FPR? I have a set of injectors from a 305 that I'm planning on using (not entirely sure if the 3100 ones are any good and I know the other set of them I have leak). I'm not looking to replace injectors again at this time, and I'm shooting for about 230 HP eventually at the crank. Using a calculator provided in another thread, I've come up with the fact that I will need about a 20.4# fuel injector, and I can get the 305 injectors close if I can get the pressure at the rail up to about 50#.

Currently soaking the heads in Purple Power. Almost sparkling clean. Will finish the rest of the top end when the heads are done. Finally ordered the right bearings (dangit!) and they should be in tomorrow.

 

Need another regulator, can't do anything with the stock one. There's other injecors to be had from the salvage yard that are close to 20 lb/hr.

 

If I ever get the right main bearings, I'll worry about the fuel injectors (sending a set of bearings back because they're ROD bearings .010" over). Right now, I'm not too worried about the injectors I have due to the fact that I was considering the future... The 305 injectors will do for now.

If I can find the rest of my rotary tool set, I'll start polishing up the ports in the heads. Other than that, I'm set for the moment with the engine as the body parts come first for now.

 

If this is for a hybrid you can raise the fuel pressure using stock GM parts...

 

Do tell...

 

Update:

Went to the junkyard today and almost lost my lower jaw at the sight of all 3rd gens (and about 60% overall inventory) gone from the yard with the exception of the 91 quarter panel donor. Pulled the quarter off of it (had to make 2 trips... Stupid battery operated saw!) and a couple misc trim pieces (forgot to grab the pass side headlight bucket for the sealed beam mounting bracket as the rest was useless ). Searched around the yard and found the LAST remaining EST module connector.

My MegaSquirt harness is about 95% done... I think I may have miswired the tach connection between C100 and the ignition module plug, will find out tomorrow. I also need to install another ground terminal pair and finish soldering the harness.

Still don't have the right main bearings yet, no money . The quarter panel came first. I'm going to be careful the next couple of weeks and see how much I have and then I'm going to have to bite the bullet and shell out $40 for a set. All I'm waiting on is those main bearings and a set of FelPro head gaskets (anyone need a cheap set of head gaskets? I refuse to use these things!).

One quick question: Can I use a 3100 oil pan gasket on my oil pan? See, I already have a 3100 pan gasket, and I'd rather use it than have to pay $20 for another one... It's bad enough I have to pay for new bolts.

 

you my friend have far more pacience than i could ever think

 

Actually, it's wearing pretty thin... I wanted to have the car done by July to go to the family get together on Cayuga Lake, but that's not going to happen with my job cutting my hours here there and everywhere and then making me work crap hours (when they actually give me hours) so that I have no time or desire to work on the car when I get home...

 

i know the feeling, but the way you need to look at it is when its all done, youll miss working on it, but youll love it at the same time because you can actually DRIVE it and say your the one who built the engine, that very unique engine at that

 

The engine? Eh, that's not exactly going to be unique... I'd prefer larger port heads, but I'll stick with what I paid $50 for, for now. Although not too many keep their stock pistons. What's attached to the engine may be, however, if I can find the time, parts, and money.

By the time the car is mobile again, she's still going to need paint. I have the gun, but I need to wait on that until I can have some things done professionally, and I'll need to actually drive around to tune the MSII before I can do anything else (like go to a paint shop). She won't be bare, but the Rust Bullet BlackShell won't be the final coat on the outside, mainly just to get her one solid color with rust protection (yuck! I never want to see another spot of rust on my car again!).

Besides, some projects are NEVER really finished. I have so many things I want to do that are on various back burners that it's not funny (custom digital instruments, custom dashboard, vinyl wrapped interior panels, in-car PC, and others).

What I'm doing now is essentially on a 3-page "To Do" list. What I want to do could take up a couple more pages .

 

Update:

Ordered some bearings with about 2/3 oiling grooves in them from Rock Auto for $30. Got them Monday, put them in yesterday. Oil clearance is an average of .025 on all 4 mains (should've made sure I had the right Plastigage first and then I wouldn't have had all the headaches ). Somewhere between the sets of main bearings, I seem to have lost the connecting rod side of 2 rod bearings because I forgot where I put them when I cleaned up the crankshaft.

Anyways, I currently have the timing chain and cam gear on (need to take off the damper again to put the tensioner and front cover on after I scrape the cover gasket off). Main caps are in and torqued and I am using plenty of assembly lube to keep things moving. First 4 pistons are in, having cleaned and repositioned the rings as according to my FSM. 5 and 6 are awaiting the rod bearings, which will be in at Advance in the morning. Also ordered my FelPro head gaskets as I'm not using the cheap graphite POS gaskets I got in the 3100 gasket kit (if anyone wants them, LMK as they're NIP and getting chucked otherwise).

Still have the question as to whether I should worry about using the 3100 oil pan gasket with my 3.1 oil pan... Proper gasket is another $25...

:edit: Also, is anyone here who does 3x00 stuff regularly willing to sell some hardware? I'm still looking for upper plenum bolts (have maybe either 2 or 4) and I'm missing WAY more than that. Think I might be missing a couple valvetrain parts on the heads as well (and I just chucked my old heads last week).

 

More progress... Got the rod bearings and all six pistons are in their holes. Bottom end is torqued down. Oil pump and strainer installed along with filter adaptor. Ordered oil pan gasket (anyone need a 3x00 pan gasket?). Reassembled both cylinder heads, missing exactly ONE valve keeper (dangit ). Pass side cylinder head is bolted on but not torqued yet, driver's side is on but without a gasket or being bolted down (had to find missing alignment pins). Front cover is on with gasket. Going to have to order pushrod length checker, because nobody that builds hybrids wants to share their pushrod info, and then have to order those insanely expensive custom length pushrods. Can't wait to get everything buttoned up for a final cleaning before getting a coat of Rust Bullet (I do NOT want to see any more rust, period!).

 

Bump for slight progress...

Engine is still mostly assembled, no pics yet. Cleaned it yesterday, decided the body of the car needed the Rust Bullet more than the engine (and the hood, and the doors, and the suspension parts and rearend). I bought new stainless bolts for the intake so I don't need to worry about finding some. Somehow ended up with a couple water pump/timing cover bolts missing, but I have a box of bolts I don't know what they go to at the moment, so I'm sure I'll find them. Bought an oil pan gasket (and the 3x00 gasket went into the trash last week, so don't ask now). Still need the valve parts. I haven't gotten the pushrod length checker yet.

Question has popped up about the injector retention on the 3x00 fuel rail. I have only about 2 3x00 injector clips. Should I worry about the injectors coming out, and if so, where do I get some replacement clips?

 

I never used the clips with my 3100 fuel rail. I was using Ford donor injectors though.

 

I don't use them on my gen 1, and had no problems with them coming off or loose.

 

I'm still planning on bumping up my fuel pressure when I get there to about 50 PSI running... I forgot to mention that I'm replacing my stock fuel sender with a carbed sender and going with an external fuel pump (I NEVER want to drop my fuel tank again unless the gauge starts going batty!) and external FPR. I know that the injectors are currently pretty tight in the intake manifold but I'm worried about the rail ends...

 

Access panel imo, mine turned out quite nice, or rather the hole did, though I'm probably putting a moroso panel on it pretty soon assuming I get the engine going again without drama.

 

I was killing 2 birds with one stone getting rid of the old sending unit... My gas gauge has been screwy on and off, not to mention the lines are rusty, and I didn't want to have to drop the tank when the pump went. So, there was a guy on here selling his carbed sender for $35, and I jumped on it. No rust, no pump, no problem (I hope the gauge sender is good!).