TeddyMedina

Hey guys theres this guy selling a super charger for 120$, he says brand new it's 250. Says it fits 3.8l GM engines, I was wondering if it would fit my 2.8 MPFI on my 89 rs.

Also, I know there's another thread about this floating around but I'm having a hard time making a decision.

I'm having trouble deciding if I should

1) Save up all of the money I can and swap in a 383 V8 (Will take years for me to save up the money...)

2) Turbo or Supercharge my 2.8 and just tinker with it until I save up the money for a v8

or

3) Just cut my losses (Already put like 1.5 grand into the damn car, it isn't even worth 1) , sell it, and just buy an IROC with a 350 already in it and then mess with that.


My MPFI 2.8 supposedly is only 32k miles old, but it's giving me a lot of crap. 85% of the time when I floor it, it wont do ANYTHING, its like I didn't even press the petal more than 1/4 of the way, it hits 3.5k rpm and just stays there acting stupid. I'm getting really stressed out about it. It's bad to the point where I have to floor the car just to flow with regular traffic. (I was beaten by a prius who was just minding their own business taking their kids to school at take off...)


Although on the freeway today at 80 or 90, when I floored it, my rpms immediately hit 6k and stayed exactly there and I was flying at 120 for a few minutes.

Anyways, opinions?

Picture related, it's the supercharger.

TeddyMedina

(bump)

Also I dont think I get the mpg you guys claim you do with your LB8's, I went about 80 miles on 7/8ths of a tank and came back with a quarter, does this sound right at all? 40$ Fills it to full if not a little less.

TeddyMedina

Actually it was 70 miles, but that's including there and back.

RSFreak

That blower is for a transverse mounted FWD V6. Could you make it work? Perhaps...

TeddyMedina

That doesn't sound entirely promising

Sarcastic?

TeddyMedina

(bump) The car also has a rough idle it will run smooth for a good 5 secs then it will stutter a little bit, nothing big at all, just thought I'd mention it. It also sometimes has a hard time turning on, it will crank and crank for like 5-10 seconds and it will come on and poop out, but it always starts.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Could you use the supercharger, yes, but it would require extensive fabrication, an M90 from a thunderbird is easier to use from what I've read, but first and foremost, you need to get your car running the way it SHOULD be, something is definitely wrong with your car if it is acting like that, do a tuneup, if it has any SES codes find out what they are. It sounds like your TPS might be fubared, or it might be choked up by deposits, at any rate, you need your car to run the way it did new, before you try to beef it up.

TeddyMedina

It's just that this supercharger is probably the cheapest I've seen one, compared to the 1000 dollar ones lol. And should cleaning the throttle body be a good way to fix the problem, or at least a good start?

TeddyMedina

Oh also, there is oil sitting right outside the valve covers and there is oil all up in the spark plug holes. :\ Nice idea to grab some valve cover gaskets while I'm out and about? (But the valve covers are such a pain to even get to.. )

Project 3.4 Camaro

If its leaking oil that bad it sounds you should do at least a top half rebuild..And I see M90s from thunderbirds on ebay all the time in the $100-250 range, just have to keep an eye out for one.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Basically, what you would need to run that S/C from the Buick 90* V6 is a whole new intake manifold and air induction piping. Do you want to spend the money fabricating that if you are going to swap to a V8 anyways?

Do a full tune up, plugs, wires, fluids, filters. That engine, although weak, should NOT be getting about 5 MPG. I'd guess on either there is a vacuum leak somewhere or the MAF is shot and needs to be replaced, along with the tune up. And an intake gasket set comes with the valve cover gaskets... I'd do that as well as replacing EVERY vacuum line under the hood, with the exception of the brake booster hose if it's still decent.

TeddyMedina

There was a bolt missing from the cross intake piece but I replaced it and it did perform like a beast for a day but the performance went back to poop. Also I'm not getting 5mpg 70 miles and I went from 7/8ths to 1/4 tank and it's about 10$ per quarter tank.

And if an intake mani is all I need really I was going to buy a performance one anyway they are only like 90$

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Okay, it's 7 MPG... Our tanks are roughly 16.5 gallons, 7/8 of which is 14, and 1/4 of which is 4. 14 gallons start - 4 gallons finish is 10 gallons, 70 miles / 10 gallons is 7 MPG. I know, I've been there when I had my 2.8, which got about 12 MPG on a good day, and stalled out whenever it felt like it.

Probably have other vacuum leaks and issues, especially with the leaking valve covers (which are a vacuum leak in terms of the PCV system).

And the performance intake manifold only works on carbed cars...

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I always laugh when we get posts like this. "My car runs like total crap and smells bad. I dumped a bunch of oil in it but it went away and now I want to make it faster so I can stay ahead of the fumes and not pass out. Should I turbocharge it?"

I'm not trying to offend you but you need to focus on making it run properly before dreaming about doing anything else.

TeddyMedina

And that is what I'm doing right now. I'm about to upload a bunch of pics from today's work. Today I accomplished - Taking off throttle body, and taking the mpfi half off. Wow after slaving all day, that's all I can say I did.. lol

Well I cleaned the hell out of my throttle body. I'll upload the pics now and describe each one.

TeddyMedina

A couple pics of the TB after I took off the intake, mind that this is after a couple spraying sessions and scrubbing with the TB cleaner and wiping with a rag, there was a lot of black grim on the walls and all over the flap.





Just a couple more shots to remind me of what goes where.






Now here's a good part, when I took off the throttle body, it seems like the inlet/outlet whatever on the bottom had a melted hose on it..? It was very grimy, and it was half clogged with like rust crystals and stuff. I couldn't break off the hose parts because they pretty much became one with the TB but I cleared those holes out very very good and even enlarged them a bit.






Will post more pics of the mpfi off and everything and what my valves look like tomorrow. Any opinions on anything? There was a lot of grimy black stuff everywhere in the throttle body.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Remove the coolant lines from the throttle body and plug them off. They don't do anything but corrode and heat crap up. Get a can of carb cleaner or brakeclean and finish off the rest of the slime left in there. Once you get it running adequately well you can suck some seafoam through the brake booster hose to clean the rest of the goo & carbon suffocating that thing.

TeddyMedina

Remove the coolant lines because they heat crap up...? :P
Do you think that cleaning this thing very throughly will actually make a difference?

First I was like hey lets spray some of this into the TB (after reading the tune up guide.) Then I was like hell, I'm already this far with the intake off and it looks like that grim is never ending so I'm going to take off the TB and clean it all out. Then it turned into hey lets take the MPFI off, might as well paint it while I have this open. Now I'm working on a good project, need to finish by tomorrow though because it's at a friend's house lol. He doesn't favor cars in his drive way that aren't his (he has a lot of tools so I work on everything over there.)

Will definitely be devoting tomorrow to this.

Still have to :

-Paint throttle body (red or black..?). Don't worry I plugged every single little tiny hole and of course the mouth so no paint will be able to get in.

- Take off MPFI and clean it throughly, primer and paint black.

- Take off valve covers, primer and paint red, replace valve cover gaskets.

-Take off headers and primer/paint black.

Hopefully I have enough time tomorrow! Will be working from 12pm to sundown in 100 degree california heat

Project 3.4 Camaro

The reason the throttle body has a coolant line going through it is so it doesn't freeze in very cold temperatures, unless you live in the arctic circle, most people will never see such extreme temperatures to worry about it, and yes, it DOES heat up the throttle body, but more importantly, air being sucked into the engine, colder air=desner air=more power, hotter air the opposite, internal combustion engines at their most basic level are air pumps.

TeddyMedina

Alright I will most definitely take off the coolant hoses then. What could I plug the hoses up with though..?

Project 3.4 Camaro

You don't you just remove one rubber hose, and run the other from one metal line right to the other, bypassing the throttle body altogether.

TeddyMedina

Damn I guess I have to go find where those hoses came from then haha, can you tell me which one is the inlet and outlet so I know what hose to get rid of? looking at the engine bay from the front of the car left or right?

And I thought I solved whatever was wrong with the dang thing since I cleared out those holes, I was hoping that was the problem because then it would have been solved lol..

Will I notice any performance gain by just simplying cleaning the TB?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

There's no inlet or outlet. I'm not certain why gm even bothered running 2 lines to it. You need it clean to set base idle properly. Idle quality suffers and if your iac gets stuck in the closed position your motor will still be able to idle on it's own.

BackInBlackGP

That looks like an Eaton from the S/C Grand Prix family...

As for blocking off the coolant lines to the TB: Do you just install a bypass elbow or do you block them off completely, stopping coolant flow? I have my heater core bypassed under the hood via some copper plumbing. I was always hesitant in actually stopping the flow all together.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Just bypass the throttle body with an elbow. I don't know the full path of the coolant, so I honestly have no idea what blocking it off would do, but it's easier to just bypass it anyway, and leave off the plate on the bottom of the throttle body with the nipples on it, good for like 1hp and 4oz weight reduction :P properly **** car modification at its best, lmao.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I've never understood why people block off or bypass the heater core... In a pinch, when overheating, the core can help cool the coolant slightly. Just gets a little hot in there, that's all. Especially in the cooler parts of the world that may need the heat some times.

Anyways, you can get an adaptor from the parts store that screws directly into where the TB/heater core adaptor pipe screws into the intake, and run a hose down to the water pump nipple if you're worried about the coolant flow. Or, you could even make a pipe that connects there that makes filling the system easier without having to deal with the air bubble under the thermostat (which sometimes requires removing the temp sensor to get rid of).

cj92firebird

Bubble under the thermostat? Thats the first I have ever heard about that. What would be the worst that would happen if you ran with a bubble and didn't know it?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

The engine overheats because the water pump can't get the coolant up to pressure due to compressing the air in the bubble instead of the coolant itself. You'll notice this if you don't fill the system properly when you're driving and the coolant temp gauge is going nuts, going to the red and then dropping like a rock when the thermostat finally gets hot enough to open and doing the same over and over again. If you've ever seen a 2.2L Cavalier or something, you'll notice a metal pipe running across and almost the full length of the front of the engine, that has a small metal screw in it. This screw is loosened to release trapped air when filling the system because the top of the engine is actually higher than the top of the radiator. Other newer cars have something of this sort as well due to the same design problem. Ours aren't supposed to have this problem, but I'm not the only one who has had a problem with an air bubble under the thermostat, and I usually fill the engine through the opening for the CTS or what was my cold start injector switch (after said device was removed), to get rid of the bubble.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You can drill a 1/16" hole in the thermostat to cure that problem. Some even come with it and a little jingle valve. What made you bring up bypassing the heater core? I don't know of anyone that's done that. But I'm in colorado.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Not the OP, but, still...

I'll have to drill the new thermostat when I get that far with the 3100 parts. Or I could just make an adaptor to put into the hole where I deleted the pipe that runs from one end and side of the intake to the other to fill the coolant through.

86ttopbird

I don't think anyone thought to mention this but, 2.8 V6's don't like ANY vacuum leaks at all. The OP said that there was tons of oil leaking into the spark plug holes and all around. This means the valve cover gaskets are blown and need replaced. This causes a huge vacuum leak due to the PCV system being plumbed into the driver's side valve cover. Also touch all the rubber vacuum lines and see if any black rubs off on your fingers. If it does, they are shot and need replaced. The vacuum lines are cheap and easy to replace. You can get the gaskets in a complete kit which has all the intake gaskets including lower intake with a tube of black silicone, valve cover gaskets, throttle body gaskets, an EGR tube gasket for about 20 bucks.(I got mine at Pep Boys) Doing the work will take you an afternoon and its not hard at all. While you have to remove the fuel rail, grab some O-rings for the fuel line connections and injectors as well. They too are cheap insurance against leaks. I have seen bad injector O-rings cause vac leaks that make you yank out all your hair trying to find them. Also, if you have the stock multec injectors, I would consider replacing them with something better like a Bosch style injector. Multecs are crap and like to short out after a little while. Bad injectors will cause bad gas mileage as well as a host of other annoying problems. I switched to the Ford F1ZE injectors and noticed an immediate change in idle quality as well as a slight increase in gas mileage. It idles rock steady at 700 RPM and doesnt stumble and burble like it used to with the stock injectors.

RSFreak

I've heard that you shouldn't block off the TB coolant line because it could cause a hot spot where the coolant isn't flowing. Not sure if this is accurate or not. I just made an elbow for mine.

BackInBlackGP

I was on vacation one summer and the heater core popped. Did what I had to to get home. Turned out that I actually liked the idea of not having hot air blown on me all summer long, so I made it a ritual to bypass during the hottest part of the summer. My cooling fan has a manual override, so I can snap that on if I feel like it while sitting in traffic.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

What year Tbird?

mikeal8208

Hey im building a adapter to put that supercharger on the engine I know its a old post but I called my thread top mount m62 supercharged 2.8