I replaced the entire fuel rail along with all the injectors, dizzy cap and button, module, and im still not getting any start, i have a half tank of gas, i have fuel and pressure to the rail. i havent checked spark yet but im doing that tomorrow, i know my cold start injector is leaking but i dont think that should keep it from running, my step dad said it seems like its not getting fire. can anyone add there two cents in here? id appriciate it.

 

When i put starting fluid down the throttle body, it pops two or three times then i start getting smoke from behind my engine near my firewall, any advice?

 

could my timing be off?

 

my tioming chain was loose n the engine did tht. i replaced it n it seemed to go away.. for the short time iot ran...now im still hving starting issues

 

yeah if i have to pull the timing chain cover im going to go ahead and replace the chain, im goin go try and adjust it by bringing it up to top dead center then checking my dizzy, it its off im going to try and adjust it by adjusting the dizzy if not, out comes the plate and in goes a new chain.

 

yeah. its a bitch to do.. well mine was.. the room was amazing./. but everything i had to pry off cuz of age

 

ok, my car is off timing, but i cant get to the dizzy bolt to move it, how do you get to it, i know i need a metric dizzy wrench but where can i get one?

 

just to be clear. the dizzy is the distributor right? n in order to get tht bolt out.. i used a socket swivel.and i dont remember the size of the socket.

 

the size of the socket is a 15mm, and yes dizzy means distributor

 

but yea a socket swivel and a long arm extention should make it easy.

 

i cant get to it with a swivel socket, the arm of the wrench hits the dizzy before it touched the bolt.

 

Forgot to mention in my PM that you may have to move some crap around to get the socket on the bolt, and you may have to force the thing onto the bolt. If necessary, twist the dizzy until you can get the socket on the bolt and move the plug wires accordingly.

 

odd.. i never had that problem. the swivel fit when i put the swivel on the bolt. then angled it twards thepassenger fender. then stuck the long extention and the put the wrench on it.there was nothing in the way

 

iv removed the entire cap, i had to too see where my button was at when i brought the engine to top dead center, my step dad said im getting spark to early which is why im not getting a start.

 

thewn readjust the dist timing.. i wish mine was that easy.. my distributor gives spark yet the engine doesnt start ..through the whole turn of the distributor.. i get nothing.. im geting fuel. i just replaced the fuel pump...

 

are you sure your injectors are putting fuel out?

 

yeah. i took the spark plug outn cranked it.. smelled fuel

you hear little puffs and the engine hesitates like something ignited.. but the engine doesnt kick on

 

hm, idk man

 

i know man..blows.. shes a beauty.. but its not fun watching it as a lawn ornamint

 

Any progress?

 

my car jumped 2 teeth in timing, i was out of town for the week since my grandpa died so i let my step dad handle it, he set the timing back to its original timing but is still tinkering with a few problems.

 

ok my old man said that the cars trying to start and that its popping off but still nothing, hes going to take the timing back 1 more tooth, any help here dan?

 

ok he said after he cranked it, it started backfireing alot so he swaped plugs 1 and 4 and got it popping off trying to start. help please!!

 

maybe a dumb thing to check but are you sure your plug wires are in the right order as well

i was sure once...needless to say i was wrong ha ha

 

yes they are all correct.

 

my dads going to check them tomorrow since he swapped plugs 1 and 4 so hes gonna change it tomorrow

 

yeah double check that... i swore mine was right to lol sometimes its the simple things

 

If it's cranking for a while and hitting and then cranking, you're trying to run on the CSI, which doesn't work that way. Definitely beg, borrow, buy, or steal a fuel pressure gauge and make sure that's within 37-47 PSI. Don't see why it should be leaking unless the big o-ring in the CSI fitting is screwed up, but it can happen. Pull the plugs and make sure they're not soaked with gas... Get a spare set of cheapos if necessary.

BTW, if the CSI is still leaking at the fitting, if the small o-ring is still on the pipe, take it to a NAPA or somewhere and get 2 more small ones and then 2 of the next size up. Put the large ones on first and the small ones on the bottom. And get that old crap o-ring out of the fitting before you put the CSI system back together or the new rings won't let you put the pipe in the fitting.

 

i have a fuel pressure tester, like i said the none of the injectors are leaking and like i said i have pressure at the rail

 

i fixed the CSI leak

 

You need a MINIMUM of 41 PSI at the fuel rail for things to go right. Pull apart the 4-wire connector at the front of the engine by the upper radiator hose and make sure you have power at the pink wires. Also make sure all of the black wires and the other ground wires are attached at the backs of the cylinder heads. Without having grounds, the ECM can't work too well.

As I've said before, the CSI is independent of the fuel injection system. It receives its power from the same circuit as the starter solenoid and grounds through the square-connected switch in the intake by the thermostat housing. Which means that something is possibly wrong between either the fuse panel and the injectors or the ECM and the injectors.

And, as I said, pull the plugs to make sure they're not soaked with gas. Fouled plugs don't spark.

 

do you think i should swap the computers out? how would i tell if im having problems between the panel and the computer? also the only plug im finding near the upper radiator hose is the temp gauge in my snokle. im lost.

 

Changed the spark plug order today and its firing more often and more aggresivly than yesterday, i checked my plugs and they are fine not fowled at all.

 

Reset the engine to TDC #1. That would be on the passenger's side, in the front of the engine (not the trans end). Then, the next plug is the front driver's, and alternating sides to the #6 on the driver's side in the back (1,2,3,4,5,6 is the firing order). If it's actually firing, then recheck the firing order. You can also spray some starting fluid into the intake through a hose and find out that way if the engine is actually getting fuel or not.

 

cant i put the fluid down the throttle body?

 

Yes, but it's simpler and quicker to just remove, say, the brake booster end of the hose and squirt it down there. I did that for a while until I basically said, "Screw this crap, I'm sick of freezing my stuff off while trying to start this damn thing. It's time I put that stinking 2.8 fuel rail back in. Except I don't have it anymore..." .

 

do you think starting fluid will get it running or atleast help me knock a few problems down...do you have your hybrid engine ready?

 

I wouldn't use starting fluid for anything on a port-injected car. If the fluid puddles in the intake and it backfires, you'll blow the plenum apart. In my opinion, starting fluid is just good if your chainsaw won't start b/c it's cold out; it shouldn't be used as a diagnostic tool.

OK lets see here... hopefully I can help:

1. How much pressure do you have at the rail? If you can't get 42 psi then it's a fuel system problem. Fuel pressure gauge = tells you what starting fluid can't. So how much psi do you have "key on, engine off"?

2. I'm not sure what you're doing (or have done already) with ignition timing? The engine will not start if you line up the #1 cap terminal with the rotor, that's called 0 degrees advanced and the engine won't start. The timing chain is for valve/cam timing and should be installed "straight up", mark-to-mark. The distributor is responsible for ignition timing.

You said your engine jumped two teeth of timing? That should never happen by itself. Only way I can think of that happening is if your distributor isn't seated all the way into the engine; make sure it's down all the way. Another reason to skip teeth is if the cam gear/timing chain/timing sprockets/distributor gear is missing teeth; hopefully that's not the case.

Here's an 'exact' timing procedure for you:

First, make sure you have TDC of compression stroke- not exhaust stroke- remove #1 plug (like Maverick said, on this engine, number one is frontmost passenger side cylinder- NOT the driver's side like your friends might be used to) and put your finger over the hole. Then turn the engine clockwise with a breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt. When you start to feel pressure against your finger, that's the compression stroke.

Now put a long phillips' head screwdriver straight down into the #1 plug hole until you touch the top of the piston, and slowly turn the engine clockwise with a breaker bar until the screwdriver stops rising. That's #1 TDC compression.

If you don't feel pressure against your finger but the piston's rising up, that's #1 TDC exhaust, you'll have to spin the engine again until you get to the compression stroke.

When you get to TDC #1 compression, now make sure your 0 degree timing mark matches the notch on the balancer. An old balancer's outer ring can slip (rubber deteriorates) and its timing mark will move. If the balancer mark doesn't line up with 0 on the scale, and you're sure you're at TDC #1 compression, then that means the outer ring slipped- make a new mark on the outer ring and use that for your timing.

Now pick any cap terminal to be your #1 terminal. Some people swear it has to be in a certain location on the cap- but it really doesn't, as long as you know what you're doing! Once you pick a cap terminal, spin the distributor counter-clockwise so the rotor is pointing slightly clockwise (advance) AFTER the cap terminal. Go like 1/4 inch clockwise. "Or" you can turn the engine a bit more clockwise until the balancer mark goes to "10" on the scale.

That means you put some spark advance into it. Now try to start it. If it starts up, that's great, that means it's just regular timing adjustment from here. (Shut off engine, disconnect EST connector, put your timing light on #1 plug wire, start engine, and while following proper safety precautions so you don't get shocked, adjust to 10 degrees advance.) If it doesn't start up, stop cranking the engine, and turn the distributor cap a little more counter-clockwise and try again, at some point there will be a sweet spot where the engine will catch.

If you go through all this and it still won't fire, your best bet is to find the 82-92 GM Service Manual from http://www.helminc.com and go through the "engine cranks but won't start" chart; way too long to type here. It goes through a bunch of different checks (like checking the exhaust to see if it's clogged, etc).

Let us know how it goes... (and how much fuel psi is on your gauge?)

 

If you use a VERY short burst of starting fluid and the engine at least tries to act normally, it means you aren't getting fuel delivery. IF the timing is close to being right. Yes, your engine will run at TDC, or it should, in theory (mine has run with a HUGE retard in it, with the wrong MEMCAL). It just won't sound right. I'd do as Tom says above and get the timing at least close to where it should be before attempting anything further. And, again, the plugs may not look fouled by carbon or any of that crud, but they can be soaked with gas. Pull a plug, and if it reeks of gas, pull the rest and let them air out, maybe hit them with a bit of compressed air if possible, to evaporate the gas off. Which is why I recommended the second set of plugs, so that you have a set to test with and another to air out. And, again, check the grounds at the backs of the cylinder heads. They could be tight enough to make contact when the engine is sitting still, but they could be loose enough to be breaking contact when you're cranking the engine over and screwing with the ECM grounds. Also make sure they don't have any sort of corrosion or other crud on them.

And no, my hybrid isn't even close to being ready. I want to yank the engine out first and put some new bearings in the lower end, replace the oil seals and the oil pump screen, the oil pan, and get everything degreased and painted up before the engine goes back in. And I don't have the MegaSquirt yet, nor a wiring harness ready for it. I have WAAAY too much body work to do first (rust removal and patching, replace the pass side quarter, replace the weatherstripping, rustproofing, primer and paint, you get the idea). Which is why I've said that my goal is next summer, at the bare minimum...

 

its alive and running good

 

it was between the timing and plugs, that and i had no tranny fluid but i set the timing and changed my fireing order and she started right up, went to take it out of the driveway and it didnt want to move but after it got hot i checked the tranny fluid and it was dry, litterally but i put some tranny fluid in and moved it and its nice and smooth, but my check engine lights still on some im gonna have my buddy come over with his laptop tonight and his adld usb cable so i can check it out.

 

try to clear your error codes by unplugging the battery for a minute. then check codes again. I had the same issue as you and just advanced the order of the plugs, not too far though til it ran. then i set timing with a timing gun to get it to run great. it didnt start a while because all my cranking while not starting flooded the engine. i got my dizzy tool from autozone, its labeled distributor tool and has the two most common sizes. i did have to move my coil and loosen egr solenoid to have room. i have an 88 gta 5.7L so just letting you know cause i replaced everything and later found my pink wire to coil was cut, fixed it then had a timing issue cause of my installing a new distributor afterwards.