I have an 88 camaro in need of work and am doing a few mods to it. There have been some already and believe they are making the car run worse, so as I do my mods I am trying to fix the other ones. Pacesetter headers, ypipe, and back to the gutted cat are going to be put in next week as well as new monroe max control shocks for the rear and monroe ultra struts for the front and new spring coils all around. I have already replaced from the cat back with dynomax turbo exhaust, crane cams hi-8 ignition module and crane cams fireball ignition coil, hypertech chip, blocked the EGR, iridium plugs and twin 8mm core splitfire wires.

The problem I am having is there are Accel fuel injectors in the car. I believe them to be around a 20lb/hr , and with the chip already pushing the injectors a little extra it feels like heavy flooding. It is driving the computer nuts and you can feel it making adjustments as you drive. Even with all the extra spark I have running through there it can't burn it properly, so I am going to replace the injectors. But, I am not convinced that I need to put in the 15lb original style.

So here is my question to someone who maybe has done similar mods to theirs. Do I go with 15lb? 17lb? I have noticed 2 different ones showing up most places for this year range, and they look a bit different. Like maybe one is an old design and the other is a newer design made by bosch, but can't really find specs for either. Can I even get 17lb ones for this car?


Thanks for any help.

 

Pulled the old Accel injectors and they have part# 4311 on them and nothing else. Have tried looking around for info and specs, but can't seem to find anything. Tried calling Accel's tech support line 5-6 times and they don't seem to have time to answer the phone. Anyone have a database they can access to get info on this obviously discontinued injector? I need to find out its flow rate.

 

Run injectors from a 3.1/3100. They're a better design and a little larger. I ran them on my Camaro with full boltons and the car ran so much better with those than the stockers.

 

Thanks, but do you happen to know the flow rate of the ones you got that were for a 3.1?

Newer ones work better because of better design, which means better atomization of the gas. Flow rate is what I am putting into consideration for current mods and future ones.

 

Haha, believe I found what those are. On all 6 there is a miniscule heat stamp that says "21". Pretty damn sure that is how Accel shows the rate on their injectors, so ya..... Serious flooding going on there with almost 50% over stock flow just from the injectors plus the chip trying to pump it up a bit.

Going to install the 17lb/hr ones Southbay08 recommended. Will post results once they are in.

 

This. I have his old V6 in my Camaro now. Or at least that's what I was told. The 3.1 injectors are a good upgrade for the motor.

 

You won't flood the motor or anything. The 3.1 injectors are only a one or two lbs/hr bigger than 2.8 injectors. My motor ran better and actually saw a slight increase in mileage with those. I had intake, headers, cat-back on my Camaro so they complemented nicely with the boltons.

 

Ya, I am pretty sure they use the same lb/hr rate the 2.8 used, they are just a newer style I believe called Bosch II. The lb rate is what I am working with as there is a formula for running lbs/hr to horsepower. The 15lb ones that these 2.8's came with were bad design (pre-bosch II), and only useful up until 150 horses, unless you change out the pressure regulator to increase pressure at the fuel rail to increase your lb/hr rate. They are something that is very important to properly modifying a car, and has to increase as horsepower is increased, thus increasing horses a little more. I have decided for the time to get the 17lb/hr Bosch II style and should be closing in on 180-190hp, and if I go higher would need to either get higher rate injectors or increase fuel pressure. Thanks for the help guys.

 

you definitely dont need any bigger of an injector on that motor. stick to stock size of whatever brand you want. with your mods i can promise you are NO where near the 180-190hp range.

my fully bolted on 3.1 5 speed car only put out 133hp and 178tq at the wheels and ran rich on stock injectors...17lbs is to much for what you have done and without a proper tune

and on a side not the hypertech chip doesnt do anything but advance your timing i had one once...trashed it

 

Ya, I'll get the new dyno results for you after the new 17lbs come in and I get the headers on, cause it has been 7 years and less mods ago that I was almost at 150hp, but that may have been my bad for not informing that this isn't a stock 2.8 either, put in a rebuilt one from some guys in Alabama called ProFormance. Not sure if they are still around or doing smaller engines, but they did a jam-up job on this one. Would have loved to been able to afford one of their big crate engines. But 400-450hp setup must reamin a dream.... until I win the lottery that is.

Oh, and I thought the stock 2.8 for '88 was originally rated at 135hp? The 3.1 should have been higher, especially with mods.

As for the hypertech chip, in the late 90's their were several different ones you could get, each making different amounts of adjustments. Some companies would even have you send in your comp if you couldn't bring them your car so they could program it specifically to your mods.

 

yeah id like to see results...cuz untill then ill say bs....nothing personal

yeah the 3.1 is rated at the motor around that power range the 2.8 is less i always forget the exact numbers....i put it down at the wheels as well as a few other people with very modded v6s arent near the hp level you claim.

i have a HEAVILY modded 3.4 that is around your claim at the wheels before boost

edit**

2.8 135hp 160tq
3.1 140 hp 180tq

 

I see, you are referring to whp, not engine hp. You are correct that there is a significant difference, and I'm sorry you don't understand that when modifying engines and getting proper injectors for those modified engines, the injector manufactuers are looking for HP - not WHP. But thanks for putting in your $.02.

 

Wow really? Seeing as I'm running 48lb injectors on a 3.4 I'm pretty sure I understand how it works. I didn't just guess I'm not saying you can't run the 17lb but it's not nessicary. I ran stock injectors on my 3.1 with no problems or need for more. But what do I know

Your going to run rich make sure you tune for the injector change

 

Now that would be an interesting dyno sheet, getting 420-460hp out of a 3.4, because that is what 48lb/hr injectors are suited for. Unless you are using forced induction, then its more like 360-400hp for that rate injector.

Here is a somehwat useful tool for those curious about injector rate. Having a current dyno sheet makes it much more accurate, but it is still a good tool for estimating when doing major mods to your cars.

http://www.nitrostreet.com/injectors.htm

http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

 

Yea im running a turbo... And yes those are my goals. The motor is built for as much boost as I want to throw at it. Or as much as the trans and rear will take before self destructing

 

Either way go with Bosch II or III from Southbay, they are awesome people

 

Thanks Southbay08, they work like a charm. Now just to get the pacesetters on and schedule a dyno.

 

Happy they worked out!

www.southbayfuelinjectors.com

 

Alright, well this is a problem. The header on the left side(drivers in US) hits the oil filter. I searched and some said they just went with a smaller filter, but unless it is smaller around rather than shorter length, not going to help here. Are there "spacers" that are made to correct this? The header need to come away from the engine 1/2inch or better to make proper clearance and keep from boiling the oil in that filter. Would like an inch gap to make oil changes easier.

Anyone ever run across such a "spacer'? Shouldn't Pacesetter have fixed this issue by now, I mean come on, these cars have been around for over 20 years.

 

Pacesetter headers aren't that old, actually. They only started making them about six years ago or something, IIRC. About the only thing that may help you is an oil filter relocation kit. Also, the headers may have similar shapes, but make sure you have the right one on the right side. Never heard of anyone having a problem like that before.

 

Almost every thread I could find on this forum about the pacesetter headers on the v6's said they had to change the oil filter they were using, and only had minimal clearance after doing that. It just worries me the oil filter getting that hot.

 

i used a different set of headers other than pacesetter(custom made arent produced anymore) and the clearance wasn't very much either. there just isnt much room on that side to run them. i was able to run both short and long filters with no issues but that might be due to different headers. so long as its not touching the filter i wouldnt worry to much about it. coat the headers and you should be fine

 

They also make heat shielding for this sort of thing...

 

Changed out to a pf47 and not touching anymore thank god. It just pours oil on the pipes when removing, so a little smoke. Oh well. Now to find a new or working used tach somewhere. Mine went on the fritz couple years back and it is apparently a common problem. Too bad an aftermarket company hasn't picked up on it to make easy replacements.

Pillsbry10, I did coat them with some VHT 2000* paint and baked per instructions on container. Will see how it does.

 

if that doesnt work i used Techline Coatings products...comes in tons of colors and holds up to turbo temps

the oil pours out on my exhuast too...makes a nice smoke show when you start it again

 

Damn O2 sensor connector makes contact on the exhaust flange from the right header to Y-pipe. Melted the snap part so no way to quick change them now. Can the computer side connectors be found at parts stores? And the paint didn't hold up after baking, but may have been my fault for not stripping off the coating Pacesetter had on it. I made the assumption it was a flat powder coat similar to a primer, but I guess not. So now to take it all off and grind to fresh metal and reacoat. Another thing is I seem to have less power on the low end and going to look into possible culprits other than the 17# injectors, because they have definitely increased milage, and with gas prices on the rise thats a good thing. Lastly, has anyone had a prob with power steering pump vibrating once putting headers on since it doesn't allow for rear bracket to be remounted? It worries me that the front aluminium bracket is going to break. If I have to I'll rig up some way to re-install that rear bracket.

 

You can either use a nut or some other metal bushing to take up the space in the upper bolt for the rear PS bracket, or you can put a bolt in the lower hole on the rear bracket into where a mechanical fuel pump would mount if you had one (yes, the boss is there... use the top hole for the pump bracket).

The connector for the O2S can be bought at very few parts stores or ACDelco.com, or ask around on the parts boards, especially PM Pocket as he may have a couple.