Wow! I'm finally going to do an engine swap! I got a buddy with an '89 2.8 Camaro, and his motor seized on him. Seems he was driving along, and the car stopped & wouldn't start. He had it towed to his house, and as he's checking it out, he looked underneath. He saw a trail of oil... leading up to a crack in the oil pan. He ran out of oil and the motor's done.

He knows someone that has a working '86 Camaro 2.8 in their garage. The guy's "giving" it to him for $100, and loaning him an engine hoist. Sunday we're getting the engine, and next weekend we're doing the swap!

The best part is, I just got a dealer Microfiche set for the 82-92 Firebirds. I can use these suckers to find out differences between the '86 and the '89- although I don't know of any off-hand.

Anyone have any engine swap hints? We'll probably yank the hood, remove the trans crossmember, and pull the engine/trans as a set.

Graeme, didn't you mention the flywheel between an automatic and a stick is different? My friend's '89 is an automatic, hopefully that '86 came with an automatic.

I'll take pics!


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Definately take pictures for all of us "virgins." Huge step by step stuff too. I'd say pulling the tranny with is a good idea though, from my experience with trannies. Just make sure your hoist can handle the extra weight, and don't let the back bang too much on the way out.

-Reno

 

I'll probably ignore "small stuff" pics, like removing the alternator, hood, etc. Of course I'll have to get all 3 of us on camera! Are there pictures that you guys want me to take? Anything in particular? Or should I just try to get a shot-by-shot portfolio of the swap? Man, this is going to be great. If it were my car, I'd be overly cautious, and the job would take me a week- but now I get to have the experience in a kind of "dive in and do it!" situation.

Thanks for the backing on pulling both engine & trans at once. We'll have to see how much the hoist is rated for. Anyone know how much the 2.8 and the 700r4 weigh separatly? I should've weighed my 700r4 when I had the chance.. but both my dad and I could lift it and move it easily. I lifted it up myself but couldn't walk that far with it. Any more hints out there? Should we bother to change any gaskets on this replacement motor?

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited February 16, 2001).]

 

Tom, You might reconsider leaving the trans in. It can seem like a PITA but overall it's usually just as easy with a V-6 in a V-8 engine compartment. Put a pan under the car to catch the trans fluid that leaks when you seperate the converter. ( you can't pull the converter in the car if the engine won't turn)

Golden rule #1 Pull the radiator! Your going to be swinging how many hundred pounds on the end of the engine hoist how close to the radiator?

To use an automatic trans the flywheel is replaced with a flexplate, a flywheel has a machined surface for the clutch disc the flexplate does not.

If you see an oil leak on the new engine fix it before you put it in. Trust me on this one.

If you have anymore questions feel free to ask, I've done this once or twice

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'87 RS 402 Big Block
'92 S-10 Blazer 4X4
'77 3/4T Chevy 4X4 P/U with 500 Cadillac
Qsac

 

sorry i'm not graeme BUT......a flywheel (stick) is MUCH heavier than a flexplate (auto). also, i *think* there is a difference in flexplates between an 86 and an 89....not sure.


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Dan
1990 3.1L RS
80 Series Flowmaster
It's fast(er than a 3 cyl metro)

 

Tom, taking pictures would be awesome! If you need space on a website let me know. I used to work at an ISP and I can get some good bandwidth for cheap

 

Hehe, in my excitement, I phrased the flywheel/flexplate question wrong. I thing Graeme found a yearly difference between the flywheel/flexplates... he had trouble bolting one on.

87RS, you think? I was trying to avoid crawling under the car to loosen the trans-to-engine bolts, and then trying to somehow hold the trans up, and take it down from the bottom... unless, are you saying, just remove the bolts, and let the trans stay where it is? How the heck would we do that? Or would it be easier to swing the engine in to meet the trans...?

Thanks for the radiator tip! Oh, darn, I gotta move his a/c out of the way too, eh?

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

It'll stay.... My Camaro is sitting in the driveway and the bellhousing bolts and motor mount bolts are sitting in the garage... The crossmember should hold it up, but if you don't feel comfortable, slip a floor jack or a big **** block of wood in there....

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--'87 Camaro LT --
Currently undergoing a 2.8->3.4 swap.....

 

yep theres a big difference between the two. the flexplate looks about as thick as a cd case, the flywheel about as this as a stack of 300 papers. The weight difference is about 15 lbs too. The flexplate has provisions for the torque convertor, and the flywheel obviously for the clutch plate. The flexplate has SAE bolts, where the flywheel has metric threads.

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89 Firebird (AKA "Money")
2.8 V6 w/ t5 tranny Flowmaster 80 series, 3" Intermediate, 3" custom made y-pipe, SS Tips, Random Tech Cat, Msd Coil, MSD 6a, Cold Air Intake w/ K&N, Lakewood LCA's, Brushed aluminum Hood pins ETC...
Next:
New Color Paint (Grey), 4thgen seats, 2" cowl hood. Possibly 1.6 rockers if I have any money!
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

Leave the trans where it is. Put the stock jack under it with a piece of wood to cushion the pan. Then pull the bolts. Fighting and engine and trans combo can be a bigger PITA than leaving the trans in place. Let's not talk about the mess from tranny fluid coming out the back of the trans. (you never get it all)

Don't break the A/C system! Unbolt the compressor and hold it out of the way with a bungee cord...you'll thank me when you don't have to pay for a R-12 recharge.

Any more questions?

 

Tom,
My turn to help ya!
Leave radiator alone. Take the hoses and just bend them. Leave attached at radiator.
With these 2.8/3.1/3.4 things, THERE IS SO MUCH ROOM BETWEEN RADIATOR AND ENGINE. About 15".
Take off hood, 10mm head bolts, 6 of them.
Unhook engine from tranny.
Stick two bolts in top of bellhousing holes, get a broom stick to support tranny, hang stick across back frame area. You'll see this option, clearly as the engine is out and tranny hanging.
To remove the engine, support tranny from bottom (jack), then use above suggestion.
Tranny bolts are 15MM, there are 6 and torque convertors bolts are same size. You may find a couple 13MM down there (torque pan cover). 3 Bolts for torque convertor to flexplate. These are 15mm, also
Engine - 17mm for motor mount bolts.
Wiring - 90% falls back place, so easy.
ONLY difficult ones may & will be injectors. Label them! As you hook up, they will fall into place, too.
Watch out for wires clips and BREAKING OLD PLASTIC vacuum tubes.
Fixing broken vacuum hoses took me a whole day. (5/16" is the normal size for many of the thinnest ones.)
Starter, take out with engine. When put engine back into bay, put starter in later, not with engine. You'll need this room upon reinstallation.
Suggestion!!
You'll be changing intake manifolds, etc.
When you put engine in car, leave off the middle and upper air intakes and valve covers.
Adjust valves in car, with all electrics hooked upon. Turn engine over with starter, to adjust valves. Use a Compression gauge to accurately tell if valves adjust tight & proper.
When I did the 3.4 swap, I overtightened valves. No compression in that cylinder! Even my "engine expert" had trouble adjusting the 3.4 lifters (very touchy). I ended up with 175-200 compression in each cylinder. I used a spark plug screw in compression tester, not the push in type.
What else....
Lots of 12 point sockets. Intake is 10mm 12 point sockets.
Distributor - REBUILD IT WHILE OUT OF CAR, NOW!
Knock out roll pin at base of distributor, put in all new electronics.
Clean shaft with brake cleaner on sand paper.
Then, relube shaft with grease, reassemble.
Spin test all clearances in hand and with eye. IF in doubt, use feeler gauge for distributor clearances.
USE A CHVEY SMALL BLOCK DISTRIBUTOR GASKET for distributor. Apply a film (slight!) of RTV black ON BOTH SIDES.
Here's a trick-make a distributor hold down stud set up.
Distributor bolt is 15mm, by the way.
Go get new longer bolt for distributor hold down and nut.
Slice off top of new longer bolt, with engine in car, put in distributor. Then put stud in the hold down hole. Then place distributor hold down in place, slip nut on top, boom you're set, in that detail.
Reason - you'll need the extra HAND room back there to attach grounds, connections, bolts to tranny. Distributor will be in the way, to attach all those things. That's why that way.

New timing chain. 'Nuff said!

Check balancer for rubber coming out. My 2.8 was already doing that, luckily I needed the one for my 3.4, so I tossed the bad 2.8 one.
Keep balancer & flexplate as a matched set.

Majority of the nuts and bolts will be 10mm (12 point intake), 13mm & 15 mm.
Valve cover nuts are 10mm.
New rear main seal!! 'Nuff said, again!
New water pump. I paid $19 for one.
Leave exhaust manifolds attached, just swap EGR valves.

I think that's about it, for you.
Have fun.
Oh yea, exhaust nuts are 15mm.
CLEAN ALL WIRE CONNECTIONS FOR STARTER and engine block ground.
Oh yea, when you go to put engine back in, use the floor jack on the tranny to get it at the proper angle to attach all stuff/bolts, etc.
Use kerosene to clean lts of stuff, available at hardware stor. I use 1/2 can of brake cleaner, lots of kerosene and parts cleaner brush.
Let us know how you do.
I just did this back in Jan., fresh memories, hands finally healed almost all cuts and scrapes.
Oh yea, go get a turkey baster and some Marvel Mystery Oil.
Squirt oil down cylinder and use a 17mm on the crank bolt, to hand crank over engine while on stand. This will help prevent a seized piston ring, upon starting. It'll smoke some, but not much at all.
Throttle body connection, detach from intake, leave alone in engine bay. IF everything was adjusted fine, before engine died, it will be, also with other engine. This worked great for me.
Leave in car, alternator, power steering pump, AC compressor. Just swing them outta way, they will use coat hangers if trouble in that detail.
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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

[This message has been edited by KED85 (edited February 17, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by KED85 (edited February 17, 2001).]

 

87RS402, yeah, I remember that mess when I dropped my own trans two years ago. Finally I just stood the trans up on it's tailshaft to get most of the fluid out! How would I get to the the bellhousing bolts though? When I dropped my trans, I had to remove the x-member to lower everything to get at the bolts. I've heard of some guys reaching the bolts from by the firewall- maybe it's just because I left my hood on, but I didn't see a way to do that.

And I had no intention of breaking the a/c system, but thanks for the warning! I was actually able to lift my whole a/c system out of my car (compressor, condensor, evaporator, accumulator, all lines) without breaking a fitting- hopefully I can do the same on this Camaro.

Ked, thanks for all the info! Thanks for that info on the starter getting in the way, and about re-using the original TB. I don't -think- we have to switch intake manifolds. His car won't have a cold-start-injector, whereas the '86 motor will. I think as long as we don't plug the cold-start-injector in (nowhere on the '89 harness to take it, anyway), the car will be fine. I should probably ask about it on the TPI board.

I don't see us rebuilding the distributor because of the time/cost issue; besides, we could do that later. Same thing with the timing chain & water pump. (All of which I've done before with my motor in the car.)

Thanks for the info on preventing a seized ring! Also I forgot about that EGR difference.. I think his original '89 has the digital one, and the '86 has the vacuum-op'd one, so we will have to switch 'em.

We'll see how this thing goes. I just found out we'll be doing it in his driveway and not his garage- damn. That's going to be a cold job... not to mention a light-less one at night.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

TomP, you shouldn't have a problem with the EGR valves. 89 still had the old vacuum one.

------------------
Dan
1990 3.1L RS
80 Series Flowmaster
It's fast(er than a 3 cyl metro)

 

Tom, I;ve pulled two 3.1 motors out of firebirds before. The first time seemed like a bitch , but the second time went alot smoother. Be sure and get all the wires disconnected,exhaust out of the way, attach a hoist, then undoe the tranny mounts(put a jack under it for support) then undo the engine mounts and pull it.

Its a lot of work but you'll be able to pull it off. It also helps if you can get some duck dape and a permanent marker,so you can label everything.