Let's first start this off that I live in CA w/ all of it's stupid emission laws.
A while back I bought a set of headers for my 2.8L V6. They are the original headers made for the F-body 60 degree V6. Now they are not smog legal. So that means that I have to make a hole in the collector & run piping along through the primaries so I can make a mount stand for my EGR valve. Plus I wanted to get them coated after all that work gets done. Now here is the thing: I wanted to bring the entire exhaust all the way out to 2.5" and install a high flow CATCO CAT (which I have). My main question is that should I really even try to even finish this headache cause I can't find anyone who will make that EGR mount routing for me. I did find one person a while back ago but now they won't do it cause they are scared that they might get caught cause they would be tampering w/ non CA compliant smog crap. Even if I get this to work would I pass smog? Last year I passed w/ flying colors & my numbers were extremely low. Is this worth while to even finish or no? If it is it will be months before I could ever get it done. I don't know any more.

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- Mike Harvey -
1986 Firebird S/E

 

What if you told them the car was for off-road use only?

What if you drove to a nearby state and had them weld it up?

Have you looked up any weldors in the yellow pages that -didn't- specifically work on cars? I can't see a guy that welds industrial stuff caring what he welds... you bring it, he welds it, ya know?

Hell, make up a contract saying "I do not hold this weldor liable for (whatever)" and sign it. I know I'd be having a fit if I were in your shoes... why would THEY get in trouble for something you do? That's like saying "since I used a baseball bat to beat up someone, I'll sue the store where I bought the bat from."


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Mike, here comes my advice.

First Off, you would be making some more horsepower (maybe not much, but still).

Second you would have a very unique car. Everyone knows that they dont make those headers anymore, but yet you still have a set.

And thirdly, you won them. Since you have already won an auction on them, dont stop now.

I think everyone hopes that you will go through w/ this, but it is your decision.

If it was me, I would do everything possible to get those headers on!

 

Get it smogged then put the headers on. I think you will have 2 more years untill you have to get it smogged again. By then you can find a way to get it smog legal with the headers.

 

why would they be afraid to put a bung on??? adding EGR/AIR fittings would make them LEGAL. how is that tampering?? if you don't want em give em to me.

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Dan
1990 3.1L RS
80 Series Flowmaster
It's fast(er than a 3 cyl metro)

 

Dan, NO, those headers are NOT smog legal, period.
Now, you can get the old manifolds on, then get it inspected then install the headers you desire.
But, what gain do you expect?
I mean, you can have the original manifolds ported (extrund honed), for more flow & they will be just as effective as the headers and probably fit better & leak less.
Adding the "proper holes and pipes" is a non-issue. IF they do not carry a CARB certificate number, you cannot pass smog with them on your vehicle at the smog inspector. Period.
Lemme give ya an FYI-
Walking past my smog friend, I saw a nice 1975 or later Firebird. Had the majority of the smog stuff on it. Except one item. A smaller air cleaner lid. It did not cover the entire air cleaner base. I'll bet he failed, for that one reason alone.
Tell me why, a smog guy, should risk his license and livelyhood (income) for a car that is not smog legal?
Play the game, install your factory manifolds. Then get a hold of me. I know a guy in Santa Paula that'll install the stuff you want. After you get the passing grade from the smog station.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

ok i see your point, karl. BUT....lets forget about the visual inspection. let's say you take illegal headers and install the proper fittings...will it pass the sniffer???

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Dan
1990 3.1L RS
80 Series Flowmaster
It's fast(er than a 3 cyl metro)

 

I'm not worried about the visual inspection at all. I'm more worried about the actual smog itself that shows the amount of monoxide & other crap that comes out of my car w/ the headers on. Since I work at a car lot part time I am really in good w/ the referee station owner & he said that if I do this then he will pass my car through so long as it passes smog & I won't have to worry about my car being messed w/ again. But my main question is: do headers increase your levels of smog toxins (or whatever it is) or not? Also if I do decide to go through w/ this I would be spending about $500 at least to get it all said and done. About $300 if I don't get them coated. Whatcha guys think & thanx guys.

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- Mike Harvey -
1986 Firebird S/E

 

$300 to just get them welded? Ya know Mike, I bought my Lincoln Electric welder for $280, you can find no-name welders for $200 or so.......



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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Mike, get a hold of me off line.
Will it raise smog level? I really doubt it.
Yea, the welder does cost $280 but, the skill that goes with it cost patience & talent and time to develope that skill.
My buddy is in Santa Paula, you'll have to travel there.
I do believ that the sniffer will pass ya, if you stick on the egr. There shouldn't be any AIR tubes for the FI application.
Someone educate me, tho, if I'm wrong.

Freight trains do derail

the smog laws are NOT STUPID. Far from it. They are an aggrivation. But those laws have allowed us to finally SEE & BREATH CLEANER AIR. I've lived in California for 20 years. I had to move to the beach just to find the freshest air I could breathe. I have had many bouts of pollution sickness & I DO NOT WANT MY 6 month old SON TO GROW UP FEELING ILL BECAUSE OF SOME JERK OR BUSINESS THAT POLLUTES ALOT!
I turn them into the smog people 1-800-CUTSMOG.
Oh, great way to get back at a jerky neighbor, sic the smog people on them!
I do that often (not get back at jerky neighbors ) when ever I see a car smoking as I drive, I write down the plate number, make of car and location & time. That's all they need!
Hey get them outta my/our fresh air.
Or if ya wanna, make a ***** into FRIED RICE
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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

[This message has been edited by KED85 (edited March 15, 2001).]

 

Sorry guys I should clarified that post a little better. That $300 goes toward the entire new exhaust piping. $150 for all the new piping plus $50 for labor. Then I was figuring about $100 (that would be the max I would pay) to get the headers retrofitted to get my EGR valve to work. Hmmm, that is a good idea about that welder.
Would I go to Home Depot to get one or no? Also if I were to do this myself I need to run thin exhaust piping from the collector all the way up to the place where the EGR valve mounts. I would really appreciate any more insight in on this.
Geez, you guys are really helping me explore more avenues on this so that I can really finish my project that I almost completely gave up on. Thanx

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- Mike Harvey -
1986 Firebird S/E

 

Mike, you need to kow how to bend pipe, to make an effective exhaust system.
That's why you pay the man. They tend to know the best. I learned that detail.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

A wire-feed MIG would probably be best.. If you search for that message Reno made about "what will you do with your tax refund", I mentioned why/how I chose a MIG.

You probably could use a gasless MIG, since exhaust pipe is thicker than sheetmetal, but if you burn thru, you'd need a gas (real) MIG.

Home Depot sells the Lincoln Electric welders... one of the better names. Lowe's Home Improvement sells Campbell Hausfeld welders. Sears's Craftsman welders are made by Schumacher. (I forget who makes the CH ones, it might also be Schumacher.) http://www.harborfreight.com sells Chicago Electric welders, which are made by an Italian welding company. JC Whitney also sells some no-name MIG's. I hear you can find used welders locally, too. An Arc-welder (cheaper) will be too powerful to weld exhaust pipe- they're usually used for heavy-duty welding, like frame work (or building bridges).

But Karl brought up a good point- you'll need to play with the MIG to get the feel of it. If you don't ever intend on welding later in life, this might not be the way to go. Plus, if you need a true MIG and not a gasless one, the cost is higher- AND you need to rent/buy the gas bottle, which is more dough. You've still gotta buy the gloves & the helmet & wire (and maybe gas), and then do all the measuring/cutting, etc. I forget what I went thru when I bought my MIG; yeah it's handy now, but this might not be the best way to go for you. But it's certainly an option.

[edit] Oops, missed the EGR pipe question. You could do it all up from the collector, if there's room... this would probably duplicate the factory's idea. If not, maybe the EGR valve could be remote-mounted a little further away (towards the collector), then you'd use a longer vacuum line and TB-to-EGR-valve hose to hook it to the intake. Or, you could just tap the EGR off the #3 exhaust port on the header. OR, (grin) maybe you could make an AIR-type manifold- hook into the #1, #3, and #5 ports with thin pipe, join all three together into a wider pipe, make an EGR flange on that wider pipe (could be done on a workbench), and put the EGR on top of that. I wonder which way would be best for emissions. Hitting the #3 primary pipe would be the easiest/cheapest, that's for sure.

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited March 16, 2001).]

 

I definetely know that tapping off the #3 pipe would be the best for emissions cause less exhaust would be running through that EGR opposed to running it from the collector through a pipe. It would probably give me some false smog readings kinda like this scenario: The last time I got my car smoged they put the sniffer in the left exhaust pipe (cause I have single in dual out pipes) and they were amazed as to how LOW my readings were. They were comparing it to some of the new cars that they had in there & were just amazed. Reason why mine were so low is b/c if look at your exhaust on a really cold day (my car for instance) your exhaust system will send more exhaust out the right had side than the left, hehehe.
Now if I ran the EGR mount right off of the #3 pipe would that hurt my car's performance cause I remember having to replace my EGR last year cause the EGR was going to crap. I was just wondering as to what is the best way to go about it. Thanx guys.

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- Mike Harvey -
1986 Firebird S/E