davewoo

Hi group got a couple questions tried searching but couldnt find wat I was looking for. Ok so here we go. Im looking at buying a motor this guy tells me he has a 3.4 out of a 95 camaro with a 700R4 said he will sell me both real cheap, then the picture he sends me is clearly a 2.8. the 2.8 airplenum, distribuitor,ac on driver side top of engine instead of pass,bottom He said he bought it at a custom shop that pulled it to do a v8 swap he said he was gonna put it in a s10,but then sold the truck. so my questions are 1-how can i tell if it really is a 3.4 that has already been converted overand not just a 2.8? 2a-where are the casting numbers located at? and 2b-what are the casting of the motors thax all in advance

sam24th

iTrader: (1)

The blocks are almost identical from what I can tell. I had both side by side about 2 days ago. I did notice on the 3.4 block there was a sensor on the fron of the block near the lower intake manifold that the 2.8 did not have. If it has this sensor or a plug in it I would assume it was either a 3.4 or possibly a 3.1 block (never had one). The 2.8 doesnt have a sensor or a plug there. I can take a pic later if needed.

ezrollin

The 3.4 has extra webbing on the sides of the block,could possibly post pics if you like.

davewoo

cool Thanx, Im gonna go check it out tomorrow and see wat i can find out.for the price ill probably get it anyway, got a couple main bearings gettin ready to spin, so 2.8 or 3.4 wen the person is almost giving it away i got to jump on it please post pics just so i can have a good idea . Thanx again Dave

firebird904

If the transmission is out of the 95 the transmission is not a 700r4 but a 4l60e which is an improved version of the 700r4 and computer controlled and will not work with the 2.8 ECM. You would have to use the transmission that is currently in the 2.8 or swap out the wiring harness and ECM out of a 4th gen v6 to make it work.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

As posted above, look for the cam sensor at the front of the lower intake manifold, and also on the pass side of the block down by the oil pan rail for the crank position sensor. 3.1's had neither one, and the 2.8 didn't even have the knock sensor mounted as the coolant plug on the pass side of the block above where the crank sensor would be or just above the tail of the starter (the end facing front). There's also another sensor behind the front damper on the 3.4 which is also used for spark timing that has a tone ring mounted in the damper itself.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Cam sensor is the easiest to see external object that will beyond a shadow of a doubt prove its a 3.4, it would be slightly to the right of where the thermostat housing is, and one last way to tell is the 3.4 has dished pistons if memory serves, and the 2.8s I recall for sure are flat. But if you ask me the whole thing sounds hinky....a 3.4 in a 95 camaro with a 700r4, 2.8 top end and accessories, and dizzy ignition to boot? I would be leery personally.

Project 3.4 Camaro

And slightly off topic here, but does anyone know where I might find a thorough listing of what sensors the 3.4 has and where they all are?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Basically, with the exception that it only has 1 oil pressure sender where the 2.8's may have 2, and the fact that there may be an O2S in each exhaust manifold (or only one on the pass side), everything is the same plus what is listed above .

davewoo

cool thanks to all that responded, all that helps. I think the guy aint much of a car guy so the shop sold him a good 2.8 as far as the tranny goes, i knew that already, im just giving yall the same info i got and really no knock sensor my 88 s10 with a 2.8 tbi has a knock sensor,on the pass side right in front of the starter. and another question will the digital egr valve on that motor work my motor has the old school egr valve thanx again Dave will post pics and keep everyone updated later on this weekend

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

The digital EGR needs to be swapped out and replaced with the vacuum one...

davewoo

Ok guys heres wat i found out, i got the motor and the only thing i can c is the knock sensor.The fuel rail is different, and here we go i saw a number on the pass side bellhouseing, 10A92 now wat it sounds like to me is it was born oct of 92 so it is probably a 2.8 will take pics tomorrow wat does everyone think? thanx Dave

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

You should be looking for the VIN derivative, which I think is on the other side of the bell... That will tell you for sure if the engine is from either a 92 or 93 (if the production date was 10/92, it could be either, but I'm leaning towards 93). This number should be something like 1/2xPxxxxxx... First being 1 for Camaro (Chevy) or 2 for Bird (Pontiac), the first x being whatever code was used for the Canadian plant, the P being 1993, and the last 6 x's being the production sequence. If it's from a 92, the code will look like 1/2NLxxxxxx, N being 1992 and the L for Van Nuys, CA production plant...

:edit: I was wrong... Looked in my 92 FSM for the info, and it says the engine ID should be an 8-digit code, first not mattering except to find the plant, second and third being the month, 4/5 the day of the month, 6-8 being another code not being the year...
VIN derivative is stamped into the block under the pass side head somewhere between cyls 1 and 3... Still the same code.

davewoo

Ok folks got sum pics up first pic what is is the round thing for the fuel system old motor dont have it second pic what was bolted to then back of the intake and third is this braket under the harmonic where the crank sensor would of bolted up

Project 3.4 Camaro

2nd pic was a CSI, 3rd pic probably just the timing light bracket. This also means its a 2.8, or at least has the manifolds from one.

davewoo

Cool, thats what I was thinking a late model 2.8 well the motor is super clean, didnt hear it run but got a signed statement from the guy thats it is a good motor. I looked in the valve cover to the top of the head, super clean well for $150 motor and tranny i dont need the trans though he just threw it in to get it out of his garage the tranny came from the s10 he was gonna put the motor in. I dont think i got a bad deal thanx to all that responded i will post more pics throughout the swap Thanx again Dave

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Wrong... First pic was the fuel system damper, second the plug where the CSI would be, the third being the bracket under the damper that holds the wiring harness in the front. The wiring harness crosses over across the front of the engine to feed the oil pressure unit, fuel injection, and A/C compressor.

The engine is a 3.1 from what it looks like at the moment... You'd need to pull a cylinder head to be sure as the dish size would be the only way, aside from the VIN derivative, to know the year of the car it came from...

davewoo

Ok, spent yesterday pullin ol greasy out, lol pain in the so today im changin everything over pulled ac out and behind the compressor, under the driver side head, behind the front cover are the numbers it is an 8 digit number 10065457 will post pics later folks

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

That's the part number for the block (or the head)... You need the one on the passenger's side. I'll have to see if I can find mine since my engine is out and awaiting bearings...

:edit: On the passenger's side of the block, above where the engine mount goes, you'll see 3 flat castings. There's a short one (about half an inch long) on either side of a longer one. The VIN derivative is there on the long one. Mine's 1ML18x260 (not sure what the third digit is but the rest is there). You'll probably need to grab some sandpaper and clean it off before you can read it.

However, looking at the block, head, and crank numbers in my Classic Industries catalog, it lists the #457 engine block as being for the 2.8 and 3.1... The 3.4 uses the #607 block due to larger bore size that the 457 can't handle. Looks like you have a 3.1 there, as I said before. The guy obviously didn't know what he was talking about when he said it was a 3.4. Good news is that you still get 5HP and 20 ft/lbs of torque out of the deal.

davewoo

Ya Maverick I pulled the exaust manifold off, and there it is 2NL212360. Cool so its a 92 bird which makes it a 3.1, cool I knew I wasnt getting a 3.4 but I still got better than the 2.8, score and got a tranny I dont need thats going on the classifieds. Hope it runs as good as it looks. Time to change my sig now lol

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Look for the VIN on the trans along the oil pan rail... If it's from a 92, it's worth swapping as the 700R4 (name changed to the 4L60 non-electronic in 92 due to Federal mandates) was upgraded a few times between 86 and 92...

Project 3.4 Camaro

What change was required by federal mandates? the name change?

davewoo

When I picked up the motor, he said the tranny was out of the s10 he was gonna put the motor, in it was a 87 so not enough of a diff there and theres nothing wrong with mine, y fix wat aint broke. Oh ya i almost forgot the flywheel on the 3.1 is more offset to the driver side than what the 2.8 is, the bellhousing is notched though but would it make a difference?

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

cars getting there dave, hood looks good, but whyd you put hoodpins in the fiberglass? the latch and everything was there when i gave it to you wasnt it?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Yes... GM had things like the TH700R4 and the 440-T4 (FWD 4-speed), Ford had things like the AXOD and AX4N, and Crapler had their own... The government wanted a universal ID system... First digit being number of forward gears (4), longitudinal or transverse mount (L), and trans strength or power level (60)... The E designation is for electronically controlled, obviously. Similar to the OBDII mandate in 1996 where most codes became universal along with the diagnostic port.

Oh, and OP, there were a couple design changes for 87 as well for the 700R4... Mostly in the clutches. And I don't see any difference in the 2 pics you posted... My 3.1 was just fine with my 87 700R4 and just as fine with the T5 bellhousing and 85 trans...

davewoo

Ok, the diff aint much, i just took bad pic but i dont think ill worry bout it though.thanx Mitch,ya everything on the hood was there but not on the car when they stole it they took the latch and cable so i thought wat the hey kinda gives it a look anyway lol

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

The crank is not offset at all. The bellhousing pattern is the same between all 660s, that inclues crank shaft center line in relation to the bellhousing pattern.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

yeah, it does

davewoo

Ok, here we go again, weekend is here, 3.1 is in, now time to get her runnin.got a few more questions pretty much about coolant temp sensors and cold start injector, been searchin heres my results. first off i dont need the fan switch on the passenger side head cause the ecm will still operate the fan, correctl? second off i have the idiot lights can i put in a mechanical temp gauge in the driver side head where the spade plug is now? want to keep an eye on my temp and third the cold start question the car is supposed to have it but the 3.1 dont of course its blocked off by like a freeze plug see pic in earlier post i dont really want to rip this intake off and deal with the valvetrain will everything still work correctly from wat i read i believe i can but my head is clouded by a few budweisers lol (long week) and one more about the tb coolant bypass so i bypass the hoses at the heater core pipe and just leave the nipples open or do i connect a hose to the 2 nipples appreciate all responces thanx again Dave

sam24th

iTrader: (1)

The fan switch sensor is not needed since the fan is still run by the ECM. You can just leave it disconnected and it will work fine. Its more or less a backup from what I understand. As far as the temp gauge goes Im not positive so I wont comment on that. The cold start from what I understand is not needed. If you want to be safe though you can swap the lower intake. You dont have to pull the heads or anything to do that just the valve covers. For the coolant bypass take one of your hoses and connect it to the nipples so that it doesnt leak out.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

whats the coolent bypass do anyways?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

If you live and drive the car where/when it's cold outside, you need the cold start or the engine will be a pain to start when it's cold. That plug is a pain to pull but it's easier than the one for the fan switch. And no, you don't need to mess with the valves to pull the intake. If you plan on pulling the intake, all you have to do when you replace the gaskets in between it and the heads is cut the gaskets in the "DO NOT CUT" zones to slide the gaskets behind the pushrods.

sam24th

iTrader: (1)

It makes it so that the throttle body and intake manifold run cooler. Heres a link to the tech article on it. I already did this on mines and I can touch the throttle body and intake now after driving around whereas it used to be too hot to touch.

https://www.thirdgen.org/coolantbypass