i know the superchargers for an 8cyl will fit on the 4 bang mustang with little or no tweaking...but can that work for us...with our luck probably not?? Some one must have some answers..this topic has come up over a million times and one time along with the headers someone is going to shine a little light on our parade

 

Do the 3.4 swap & save yourself a lot of money.
And time. Spend the extra money & time swapping on new tires (you'll go thru them for about 3 months of pure FUN!) & getting abetter tranny!
I know I went thru my tranny & I have a new tire already for the new tranny!!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

i don't see how an engine swap and a new tranny is less money and less of a headache for anyone.....on 1 hand you buy performance parts for the 2.8 camaro that are made for it and possibly tweak with some stuff for yourself....
on the other hand u spend countless days and nights and dollars putting in a new engine that with the mods to the 2.8 will go faster with the mods than ur new 3.4...i don't see your point....in my view you just waste time, money, and energy

 

Well, I've been pondering on a power adder for a long time for my 2.8, although it'll be a long time before I ever take a shot at it. I was thinking about getting one of those paxton superchargers that are self contained; dont have to run any oil lines or cooling lines to them. All you gotta do is mount it up to the AC bracket which isnt too hard to come up with...get the belt to turn it, and fab a tube to run from the charger to the throttle body. Pretty simple eh?

------------------
85 2.8L Sport Coupe 5-speed.
Mods: Hpertech chip and powerstat, MSD 6A-L, Crane fireball coil, Accel Cap and Rotor, Dynomax hi-flow cat and catback system with a dynomax magnum race bullet muffler on the i-pipe, K&N filterchargers, Gutted Air Boxes, 8mm Wires, Eibach Sportlines and Tokiko springs/shocks setup, Global west sub frames, Suspension techniqs front and rear sway bars, and good ole 88 IROC wheels with Kumo Ecstas on em!
"It's not the ricers, it's those damn V8's!"

Wins: 2000 V6 Accord, 69 302 Mustang, 2000 Auto VR6 Jetta, 89 Toyota MR2, 90 Civic Si, 76 350 Camaro.

 

How does it work.
Well, I do not need to fab anything, it all fits( the swap & original parts).
I need not worry about smog or anything else, all parrts help me pass smog.
I have about twice as much torque as my original 2.8.
It's dead reliable.
Tranny is the weak link, now.
If I blow up anything, I can go get a part, easy & inexpensive.
I have plenty of power for driving under 90% of LA road conditions.
And milage is great.
I paid very little in overall cost for this swap.
Most Superchargers, turbo jobs start at about $2,000.
Help me, what part don;t ya understand?
I mean, you wnat real MORE RELIABLE POWER, make it easy on yourself, go buy a V-8 car..
I know it's fun to play with these sixes, but, they ain't a V_8.
IF YOU TAKE OUT THE DRIVING ON THE STREET EQUATION, OF COURSE YOU CAN GO GET A SUPERCHARGER OR TURBO.
But, if ya gotta drive it on the street & make it pass smog, etc, slip in a 3.4 & have lots of reliable fun!
So much less headache & lower cost, it's a win win situation.
Ask anyone else here who has done this 3.4 swap. Last count was 14 or more.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Well, lots of cars have a 3.4 in them. Heck, the 4th genners come with them. But who has a 2.8 with a blower on it??? Hah, that'll be much more fun. And if you're a wrench head like me, then you shouldn't mind all the headaches it might cause. Payce.

 

If anyone wants to try:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...item=592940235

------------------
1989 Firebird
2.8 v6, t5 swapped in

Ram Hi-po clutch, Cold Air, 1.6 rockers,Lakewood LCA's, Lakewood Lift bars, Wonder Bar, 3" y-pipe, Random Tech Cat, 3" I-pipe, Flowmasters, MSd 6a, MSD Coil, Accel 8.8 wires, Auto Meter Gauges (Water, Clock, Fuel Pressure, and 5" Sport Comp Tach)TB Bypass, 4th Gen Seats

Coming for my v6:
Panhard Bar, 4thgen front seats, Nitrous, Line Lock, Posi, Spohn Torque Arm & Subframe connnectors

"I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT have run at all"
#3 Forever

 

I'm in agreement with AntiVEC. With a little "enginuity" adding a SC would be the fastest way to increase performance dramatically. The 2.8L is very underated in what it can do if you have the wherewithall to add performance parts or forced air in the picture. Without doing absolutely nothing to the motor, an SC with no more than 10psi is definately doable. In theory for every 14.7lbs of boost, you can effectively double the CI of any motor. So 2/3 of this would give the 'lil 2.8 roughly the equivalent of a 290ci.
Some homework will have to be done with fuel management, spark retard and injector sizes or maybe a customized PROM but it can be done. The one thing to be carefull of though is how much mileage the existing motor has if you want to add forced air. Seals tend to be weak and are unreliable for a 100,000+ vehicle, especially when some type of boost is added.

 

That's exactly how I view supercharging and turbocharging on a 2.8/3.1/3.4 ... for LESS money, you can have a strong v8 which will work even better with a supercharger. That's not saying a supercharged/turbocharged 2.8 f-body wouldn't be cool; it would be, but I doubt I'll ever see proof of such an engine.




------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

These 60* GM motors are way underrated. Reason GM put them in their cars in our generations is because they developed them on those "mini INDY" race cars. They raced the hell out of them and were probably pushing hundreds more HP than GM put in our 3rd genners. So from my point of view, we've got a little hot one in our engine bays just asking for more.

------------------
85 2.8L Sport Coupe 5-speed.
Mods: Hpertech chip and powerstat, MSD 6A-L, Crane fireball coil, Accel Cap and Rotor, Dynomax hi-flow cat and catback system with a dynomax magnum race bullet muffler on the i-pipe, K&N filterchargers, Gutted Air Boxes, 8mm Wires, Eibach Sportlines and Tokiko springs/shocks setup, Global west sub frames, Suspension techniqs front and rear sway bars, and good ole 88 IROC wheels with Kumo Ecstas on em!
"It's not the ricers, it's those damn V8's!"

Wins: 2000 V6 Accord, 69 302 Mustang, 2000 Auto VR6 Jetta, 89 Toyota MR2, 90 Civic Si, 76 350 Camaro.

 

ya getting a V8 would be easier but for an everyday driver i want to get better gas mileage and thos gas guzzling 8's aren't doing it for me.

 

u could be surprised..just to make a point, the ls1's get 19/28...

------------------
1989 Firebird
2.8 v6, t5 swapped in

Ram Hi-po clutch, Cold Air, 1.6 rockers,Lakewood LCA's, Lakewood Lift bars, Wonder Bar, 3" y-pipe, Random Tech Cat, 3" I-pipe, Flowmasters, MSd 6a, MSD Coil, Accel 8.8 wires, Auto Meter Gauges (Water, Clock, Fuel Pressure, and 5" Sport Comp Tach)TB Bypass, 4th Gen Seats

Coming for my v6:
Panhard Bar, 4thgen front seats, Nitrous, Line Lock, Posi, Spohn Torque Arm & Subframe connnectors

"I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT have run at all"
#3 Forever

 

All I'm throwing out is that
the 3.4 swap comes in at 200 foot pounds of torque, right away, with no add on adaptors.
The turbo would be a way cool trick set up.
Build it at what cost of the fabrication bills?

I did my Swap of the 3.4 for $800-$900.

Ther is NO replacement for displacement. No 2.8 can make as much smooth powerful torque as this 3.4, for $800-$900

A Supercharger makes an engine THINK it's it's bigger.
And it is, as you are adding about (some cases up to) 45 cubic inches of "engine" (actually an air pump)
A supercharger is as way cool as is the B & M Supercharger I see on a 1966 Nova 2 door Post IN-LINE 6 CYLINDER that hangs out on the west side of LA. Was in Hot Rod, once.
Show me the money when it comes to real world horsepower.
I paid for my power upgrade.
Now I have to pay for the transmission I blew up! I overpowered my tranny from this swap!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

well if you can't find a cheap 3.4L then it costs A LOT more..also what about htose people who don't know how to do the swaps??

 

I think that adding a SC would be a cool thing to do BUT its not just hook it in and go... There are superchargers at bolt to the 2.8L... Fieros use em, they bolt into the AC bracet. The company also doesn't reply to there emails. There is a guy, that did one on a 2.8L in a truck... Find his link and read on... its a headache, the install was cake, the tuning was the monster, fuel managment, air management, computer tuning ect ect ect.

As for the 3.4L block, yeah thats a good way to play... 207cid i think, get one from the parts store bored .030 over with cast pistons, yank the cam for a performance grind, 1.52 rockers, port on the heads - light on the intake, heavy on the exhaust. Port and gasket match the intakes, get a custom chip and a msd... i say ya would make 230+ hp easy with about 230 to 240 in torqe. BTW, our trannys and rearends can and will handle that. Add 50 to 75 in NOS and say hello to mid to high 13's on posi running 3.73:1 gears. Total cost.... prolly around 3K if ya do the job yourself - off NOS ya prolly will run 14.9 to 15.4 in a 91 firebird take another 2K and redo the interior and exterior and make it look good.... 5K in total and a decently quick V6... Hermmm what a idea i should have done that to a 3.1L (grins) One thing i did when i did over my old 91 was found out what the "average" 1/4 mile time was for production street and modified street cars.... wanna know the answer? 14.7 in the quarter mile... Yes that means at 14.7 you will win some and lose some but you are average. Dunno about you but driving my car around i come across very few of the real fast ones... 14.7 around here would beat most and lose to afew - add 50 nos and i can keep up to a stock firebird 350, what do they run? 13.8 or so? flame on V8'ers - but very true....


Seriously tho, not knocking the supercharger idea - just know you are in for ALOT of work as you will be one of few that has done it....



[This message has been edited by Red91Bird (edited July 09, 2001).]

 

ok but where to get an engine....website if so what are they so i can look...

 

Never say never. It will come to pass and if not by me then by someone who will beat ne to it. The real problem with going all out on a GM v6/60 is that they nickle-and-dimed the motor to perform to a certain extent that prevents the enthusiast to slam the engine with anything more than 12psi. Rods pistons and intake are the weak-link. With a change in these components and some O-ringing, re-inforcement of the main caps and such, 20+psi is definately doable. That would effectively increase the 3.4L displacment to about 500 CI. I'm not joking!

Take a look at the July issue of "Turbo & High-Tech Performance" mag. If a turboed rice-burner with a 2.0L 4cyl Mitsubishi can do a 10.54 in the 1/4 in a 2800lb Talon on street tires, I should at least expect the same with a 3.5L and M&Hs. It's just a matter of time for me......I need more money

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/001462.html
This swap is so easy.
I did this thread to answer just about any question ya got.
Read it, educate yourself, seek out a 3.4 (phone books, wrecking yards and the internet do wonderous things for locating items ) and go have the fun.
IF ya really want the extra power, just add nitrous. Graeme knows the stuff & part numbers.
Why waste the time experimenting & blowing wads of money for a "theory" when you can invest little personal (the 3.4 swap job) down time & small cash out lay (adding Nitrous set up) for TONS OF FUN & MILES OF SMILES, especially when ya only really need that extra power for a short burst of time?
Me, I have to go get the tranny done & I add a tire for my extra power.
I mean, go do what ya wanna, and show us the results but, I'm giving ya the sure thing.
Start searching and planning.
I mean, we have had atleast 14 people do this 3.4 swap and VERY PLEASED WITH RESULTS.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

The "real" problem's not the motor. Like I said, I doubt I'll ever see proof of such an engine- so far I've been waiting 7 years.

If you (or anyone else) wants to prove me wrong, then hey, go for it.. and be sure you mention me in the credits as being "a driving force behind the project- I had to prove him wrong." I'll gladly take the blame.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

This project of mine has been in the making for about 1 1/2 years. I'm not out to prove anybody wrong...only out to show what the 3.4L can do. Here's a guy who has a 3.4L turboed in a Fiero:

http://members.nbci.com/dlagrua/turbo.htm

He's currently running 10psi on stock rods and makes about 270hp. He has no intercooler so he's going a bit conservative. The weight of the Fiero is 2600lbs which is much less than a Camaro's. I plan to make up for the weight discrepancy by lightening up a few parts and making more boost

 

Not true, there is a guy here locally that drives a Z24 with a 3.1L... He runs and can run 16PSI on his turbo. The car last i talked to him ran a solid 14 on THREE cylinders. He can run boost to 16+ psi and run fine. There are alot of things that can be done to the GM 60 degree block. The real problem is finding parts, most are custom made and expensive as hell. I do know he is running well into the .600+ in lift on his cam and it is street driven/computer controlled. Talk about down right funny as hell to see a z24 litterally walk away from a 5.0 or a z28. I haven't talked to curt lately but he was expecting to run into the high 10's to low 11's WITHOUT NOS. The blocks are plenty strong, the cranks can take well over 300hp, the old grandprix 3.1L cranks are taking 400+hp, the rods are forged 350 that can take 500+, the pistons are custom forged that can take full blown NOS applications, the bottom end is not questionable. Guys, the fiero racing people are making 270+hp out of a 2.8L - no nos. GM developers are getting 275hp outta a DOHC 3.4.

The REAL problem is that the performance people do not concider the little block to be worthy of any buyable high perfomance mod's. Why? becuase its not a engine that will make good hp for a low price like the 305 or 350. No one conciders a V6 to be a proven runner. When the nissans and acuras and such started hitting the markets with 4 bangers that can abd will take are cars - someone made a wise investment move - now look at any import mag, check out all the things ya can do for the car, now try and do the same to a 2.8 to 3.4L. The ONLY way to change it is very easy. 1: get a sponser and win alot of V6 races on a santioned track or 2: produce parts and sell to the market with PROVEN results. Then and only then when they see someone making money will any parts dealer open a market and try and out do what you are producing to get a "piece of the pie"

The real problem with going all out on a GM v6/60 is that they nickle-and-dimed the motor to perform to a certain extent that prevents the enthusiast to slam the engine with anything more than 12psi.

 

RedBird,

I think we both are pretty much agreeing on the problems with the way the 3.4L is marketed but explaining it in different ways. Sort of like what Charlie Chan was quoted as saying "I know the answer, but not sure what the qestion is"

I know the person, Curtis, you are speaking of as I have corresponded with him about his Cavalier. Let me say that in order for him to push that motor to beyond 12psi, and to be assured that you are not leaving a trail of engine parts along the way before the car coasts to a dead stop, the factory rods and pistons have to be replaced. For serious turbocharging this is pretty much a pre-requisite. Though the stock rods are forged and can hold it's own to some degree, the pistons are junk!
Marketing is a big problem, and I don't have the answer as to why GM didn't persue this except that they know it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the V8 is as American as applepie and Z06 Corvettes. They're also DAM cheap and LAZY! They wouldn't want to waste R&D on a project to make available to the consumer a Turbo-charged V6 or OHC4 in a Cavalier, or Malibu that will out perform the imports to shame, now would they? I find this concept interesting since the past generations grew up with the notion that bigger is better and there's no subsitute for cubic inches. But meanwhile in these present times the imports are out-selling the GMs, Chryslers and Fords with products that the consumer wants, not with junk that gets handed to 'em with a 'take-it-or-leave-it" attiude. Ah, whats the use....

 

I'm jumping back in again.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MARKET OR ANYTHING ELSE LIKE THAT!
Honest.
It has to do with Governmental REGULATIONS AND THE C.A.F.E. standards and the E.P.A. smog requirements.
They just re-introduced the IN-LINE 6 CYLINDER with over 200 HP & TONS OF TORQUE.
It's made of parts of plastic & has DOHC (if I recall correct). It's in the new Blazers (TrailerBlazers).
NOW, my V-8 Coprvette has 195 HP from the factory (1974 specs).
200 HP FROM AN IN-LINE SIX, RELIABLE & NOT CUSTOM MADE THIS AND THAT AND GETS 25MPG it UNREAL!
GM made these 60* V-6 for smog performance and small engine bays (Like the Citations and the X-Cars). Blazers got them for EPA standards and CAFE milage requirements & market acceptance. GM put them in the F-bodies for CAFE standards (& reducing $$$ penalities from going over allowed CAFE standard for their yearly average)
These V-6 engines were not made to be going this long in the market place.
Check out the new LS1 Camaro & Corvette engines.
THEY ARE ALL HI-TECH, NOTHING LIKE THE OLD SMALL BLOCK CHEVY UNDER THE HOOD OF MY 1967 CAMARO & MY 1974 CORVETTE, except in engine size & heritage.
Even the NEW in-line 6 is nothing like my Wife's in-line 6 in her 1968 Camaro.
Oh, the 3.8 GM engine was designed back in 1960 for appearing in the market place in 1962. GM sold the molds etc, to someone & bought it back in the 70's because it would have been more expensie to start from scratch then t buy back their old proven 3.8 engine design.
That 3.8 appeared in the Firebird/Camaros back in 1980-81 models.
GM is in the business to MAKE MONEY not please our Hot Rod Hearts!
IF the US GOVT. deems it's to much of a certain engine (V-8's) out in the sales filed, they will penalize the manufacture (CAFE average goes up & it costs manufactures $$$$$).
Ever look at the mousetype (legal lines) of the ads for cars, these days?
What engine size they giving away?
SMALL ENGINES!
Hope this helps make this arguement make more economic sense.
That is the bottom line.
The reason the Firebird/Camaro is being dropped, lack of sales, to DICTATE redesigning the car to perform under 2003 CRASH STANDARDS.
OR GM makes more money on SUVs & FWD cars (CAFE standards is high number, low penality at the end of year!).
OH, the Corvette
It's drop in the averaged CAFE bucket for GM
It's a SALES LEADER
IT'S AN IMAGE CAR!
PROVEN HIGH PERFORMANCE SALES & DOLLAR LEADER=HIGH MARKUP PROFIT!!
Same with Caddy back at LE MANS RACING.
IMAGE=SALES & MAX PROFIT per car
Tell GM you want the Camaro/Firebird back.
It may be so.
PS Mustang MAY BE GONE SOON, TOO!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Well if we all recall correctly, GM used the 60 Deg V6 in dirt/pff road racing a few years back... And ya know what they made a **** load of power. They were making over 300 reliabe HP. Now sense the racing companies started using the small blocks the parts disappeared. They were all made at one point or another. Some are still around, but as we all know the prob is finding them.

 

When was the last time ya ever saw a dirt track/off road spokes person for a major tire company?
The image from off road/etc. is so miminal on sales floor.
Imagine walking in and going "I want the Monte Carlo I just saw win at Daytona".
It didn't win on the off road race track.

The off road racing helped GM move a bunch of vehicles off the show room floor and onto the positive side of CAFE averages, real cheap.
Plus the 60* V-6 machinery molds were already paid for! Ready to be scrapped for more money!!
What I really wanted to do was install one of these 2.8 MPFI under the hood of a Vega I saw. It was just crushed!
AND I already have to many vehicles! 5 cars, one motorcycle

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Yeah i have reread what ya said and i think you are right. Curt is a local in my neck of the woods. I have seen his car on the street and have talked to him MAJORLY before i did over my 91. He recommended alot of parts and where to get stuff when i did mine. His engine, the bottom end are as follows, the cranck is a stock grand prix hardened crank, the rods are chevy 350 forged rods and the pistons are custom forged. I think he did not get the pin end of the rods necked down rather used the stock 350 pin dia. However we in our engines can use the 350 rod, its the same 5.7in rod, the pin however is alil smaller. I am thinking we can also use the FWD grand prix crank in out RWD cars too. Unless you are running over 75 to 100 in NOS or some serious boost, ya do not need the forged pistons.

I totally agree with you on the bigger is better sceme the car manufactures use. The LAST thing GM or ford or (place name here) want to do is make a 2.8 or 3.XL run with a factory 305 or 350. they damn near blew it in the early 90's. a 3.1L WILL hold with a 305 to about 45, with mods a 3.1L WILL hold a 305 and i do not care what the V8 guys say. My old engine ran a best of 13.9 on NOS, with a stout/built 3.1L. Why would consumer XYZ pay 27K to get a firehawk running a stock 13.8 when he can get a 3.8L firebird for 19K that will run alittle slower, but for another 2 to 3K run as fast. Cheaper insurance, cheaper gas mileage same car... Same goes with the Z28 and the Corvette, same engine, however the z28 is choked 40 to 50hp 320 compared to 350 i believe. We have alot of 2.8 to 3.4 guys here - alot of ideas and alot of love for a slower car. The whole trick it a use the old engine building ways with modern FI and i promace you your car will be faster. BMW is pushing their cars into 6.0 second 0 to 60, with 225hp/225tq.... a 3.1L will make that and idle like a kitten.... Add NOS and you are playing with 5.5 second 0 to 60 and high 13's in the 1/4.

 

KED,
My point on this matter as to the marketing point of view is that GM had a good thing going with the V6 that it was not only able to meet CARB standards and requirements to make available a car that will exceed 20mpg and allow them to produce those gas guzzlin' V8s, it was also capable of putting out decent performance at the same time. Whether they made 3.8 in 1960 or 1983 or 2020 for what ever purpose they intended for, they decide to market something that will make them a more sucessful co. and show profits. Like you said MONEY is the bottom line. Problem with them IMO, is they can't beat the imports at their own game because they're so cost concious, not because of CARB. The imports are playing by their rules and are making cars with turbocharged V6s and OHC4s that with a little tweaking will blow most stock V8s into the weeds, and do 25mpg at the same time. Why can't GM follow this mentality? You say it's money? I say their LAZY!

 

Well, yes and no.
WHY?
Like my old Motorcycle, the Yamaha Vision.
It was dictated by US TRADE LAWS not to exceed a certain size, or it would be penalized, by TAXES!
IN JAPAN, there is a LIMIT on the engine size. It cannot be over a certain engine size or THERE ARE EXTREME PENALITIES THAT THE CONSUMER HAS TO PAY BEFORE HE BUYS IT, not the manufacture.
DO THEY MAKE ALAGER ENGINE, sure for the ones that can afford it! Not the mass market cars that makes the most profit
Same with England, France, etc.
SO WHAT DO THESE COUNTRIES DO?
They spend all the R & D money making these small engines act big.
How Turbos!!
BUT, do you have their R & D POCKET/CHECK BOOK?
New Subarus Flat Fours are now making over 200 hp! AWD?
I remember laughing at Dubarus when I was at the bus stop in Junior High in the 70's! Compared to my Brothers 1961 Corvette with the "3/4" race cam in it!
NOW manufactures are being forced & building new hi-tech things due to gas/EPA/Emission laws.
Hell, even PORSCHE STOPPED MAKING THE AIR-COOLED SIX?
WHY?
Noise restriction laws from the US GOVT!
AND A COOLER RUNNING ENGINE MAKES MORE HP & GETS BETTER GAS MILAGE!
Check out a new VW. Are they air cooled?
LOOK AT MOTORCYCLES!
NOW, they are FLUID COOLED & FUEL INJECTED. Correct, NOT EVERY MODEL/MAKE, but many of them are.
WHY?
US Govt laws.
It is the US Government LAWS that NOW dictate the vehicles manufactures build.
IT IS THE MARKET PLACE that dictates what is kept in the consumer market place.
SUVs still hot.
NEXT TREND is VEHICLE BASED SUVs, NOT TRUCK SUVs.
Women buyers like the SUVs.
They do not like the ride of a truck.
NOW, MANY SUVs being built on passenger car line models (look at RAVs & Honda things).
That's what's going on, these days.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA