Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
04-22-2012, 04:08 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
First let me say: I don't know alot about anything but I want to pass along what I "may" know and what can be helpful for other people on this site. If any information is misguided please let me know as 4 hours of typing and looking for pictures can be tiring!
Project89 did a great job at laying out a install of a turbo on his car. That is what I modded my build off of but since my turbo thread was about 20+ pages long and I have some time, I wanted to compile all of the main points into one thread.
Please know that this is a budget build and is my no means perfect. There is a ton of room for improvement but this was my first attempt at such a build.
I will link up the items I used at the end of this thread.
First thing up is the EXHAUST ROUTING: Under K-member style
This is the stock y pipe off of the exhaust manifolds. I litterly cut off the exhaust that runs back to the cat. converter and welded the hole shut with a piece of flat metal.
Next: Here you can see that I cut a hole into the y-pipe itself. This hole will later have a pipe welded onto it that runs up into the turbo itself. This is a cheep mans way of a collector to guide all of the ex gas to the turbo.
Next: This is what the pipe looks like once you lay it out. That is the piping that will run to the turbo flange. Try to get the piping as close to the arm/k-member as possible so that you don't loose to much ground clearence.
Next: Here is the ex. piping up to the turbo finished. Try your best to use all manderal bend piping. I had 2 bends total that were not and I regret it now that I skimped out and was in a rush. You can also see in this picture how I welded on the flange for the external wastegate.
Make sure you literly tac weld the items as you go. Then once you tack them you can remove the items and then finish the welds.
Next: Downpiping, I don't have many pictures but basicaly you want the piping to flow out as smoothly as possible. In this case I literly ran the pipe straight back to meet the pipe before the axle. And yes there is no cat. converter on my set up do depending on your states emisions you may have to take a different route.
Also you will loose ground clearence, so keep that in mind. I drive the car and haven't had any issues. Just becarful driving really fast (70Mph+) on country roads and entering/exiting steep driveways.
And heres what the turbo flange will look like when welded up.
Project89 did a great job at laying out a install of a turbo on his car. That is what I modded my build off of but since my turbo thread was about 20+ pages long and I have some time, I wanted to compile all of the main points into one thread.
Please know that this is a budget build and is my no means perfect. There is a ton of room for improvement but this was my first attempt at such a build.
I will link up the items I used at the end of this thread.
First thing up is the EXHAUST ROUTING: Under K-member style
This is the stock y pipe off of the exhaust manifolds. I litterly cut off the exhaust that runs back to the cat. converter and welded the hole shut with a piece of flat metal.
Next: Here you can see that I cut a hole into the y-pipe itself. This hole will later have a pipe welded onto it that runs up into the turbo itself. This is a cheep mans way of a collector to guide all of the ex gas to the turbo.
Next: This is what the pipe looks like once you lay it out. That is the piping that will run to the turbo flange. Try to get the piping as close to the arm/k-member as possible so that you don't loose to much ground clearence.
Next: Here is the ex. piping up to the turbo finished. Try your best to use all manderal bend piping. I had 2 bends total that were not and I regret it now that I skimped out and was in a rush. You can also see in this picture how I welded on the flange for the external wastegate.
Make sure you literly tac weld the items as you go. Then once you tack them you can remove the items and then finish the welds.
Next: Downpiping, I don't have many pictures but basicaly you want the piping to flow out as smoothly as possible. In this case I literly ran the pipe straight back to meet the pipe before the axle. And yes there is no cat. converter on my set up do depending on your states emisions you may have to take a different route.
Also you will loose ground clearence, so keep that in mind. I drive the car and haven't had any issues. Just becarful driving really fast (70Mph+) on country roads and entering/exiting steep driveways.
And heres what the turbo flange will look like when welded up.
Last edited by fasteddi; 12-10-2012 at 07:19 PM.
04-22-2012, 05:16 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Fasteddi/Turbo install guide/ still editing the thread.please dont post on this.
Charge Piping
First you will need to get creative. I ran the piping down to the intercooler which you will see later. But first you need to get a rough idea of how you want to guide the pipe off of the turbo and down through the metal panel. I removed my purge tank in the process to make room to drill a 2 1/2 Hole for the piping to go through.
Next: Is getting the piping to go into the intercooler. You will have to remove the airdam and other items down under the car to be able to piece it together. Once your done all of that will go back on the car like it originally was.
In this picture I also welded on my own 45 degree pipe to get the gap between the intercooler and the pipe closer. Sorry I do not have a picture of the welded extention on the pipe that I made.
Next: Mounting the intercooler. Basic but you will need to notch the hood latch support to fit the intercooler in. Then mount it as stiff as you can. MAKE SURE YOU MOUNT THE INTERCOOLER BEFORE YOU TAC WELD THE CHARGE PIPING!
Next: Here is what the turn looked like coming out of the intercooler on its way up to the Throttle body.
Heres a picture of my intercooler, its on a downward slope to catch as much air as possible.
(ALSO) I bent my airdam forward to help scoop the air up. All I did was what you see, I took some metal and bent it then bolted the metal to the airdam to make sure it keeps that angle better.
Next: Is the piping out of the intercooler and back up to the throttle body. I don't have a picture but is basically takes a 90 degree bend out of the intercooler and then two 45 degree bends back twards the engine then a 90 degree back up between the radiator and the engine
Next: The piping for the blow off valve and to the throttle body. This is a rough view of the piping up to the TB. The blow off valve was not in this picture and where you see that metal coupler at, that is where the BOV will be. Your going to want to clean up the welds and such to make it look nice. I added exhaust cement on all of my charge pipe welds to assure that there was no pressure leaks.
Next: When your done you want the charge pipe to look something like this. Make it look nice and also you will need to weld up a bung for the intake air tempeture sensor. I drilled a 1/2 inch hole in the pipe so that the sensor would sit in the air stream in the charge piping. Then I used a nut that I welded on, then ground down. Then just extend the wireing for the sensor itself and your good to go.
Next: The blow off valve. I would not recommend this RS-type of BOV but it served its purpose for the time being. I actually bought a adapter off of Ebay so that I didn't have to weld the flange for the BOV, just weld in the ends of the adapter into the existing piping that you already have layed out. I personally only welded one end of the adapter to the pipe so that I could remove the piping to the throttle body in the event that you need room to work or are taking the engine apart.
I don't have a very good picture of the blow off valve but you can see it many pictures to get a idea of where I put it. (bottom right hand corner, its blue) This BOV will have a port on it. You will need to run a vac line to the back of your intake manifold so that when you let off the throttle and a vaccum is sensed it will open the BOV and release boost pressure. Use the heavest but yet smallest diameter hose you can, and try to make the routing as short as possible.
First you will need to get creative. I ran the piping down to the intercooler which you will see later. But first you need to get a rough idea of how you want to guide the pipe off of the turbo and down through the metal panel. I removed my purge tank in the process to make room to drill a 2 1/2 Hole for the piping to go through.
Next: Is getting the piping to go into the intercooler. You will have to remove the airdam and other items down under the car to be able to piece it together. Once your done all of that will go back on the car like it originally was.
In this picture I also welded on my own 45 degree pipe to get the gap between the intercooler and the pipe closer. Sorry I do not have a picture of the welded extention on the pipe that I made.
Next: Mounting the intercooler. Basic but you will need to notch the hood latch support to fit the intercooler in. Then mount it as stiff as you can. MAKE SURE YOU MOUNT THE INTERCOOLER BEFORE YOU TAC WELD THE CHARGE PIPING!
Next: Here is what the turn looked like coming out of the intercooler on its way up to the Throttle body.
Heres a picture of my intercooler, its on a downward slope to catch as much air as possible.
(ALSO) I bent my airdam forward to help scoop the air up. All I did was what you see, I took some metal and bent it then bolted the metal to the airdam to make sure it keeps that angle better.
Next: Is the piping out of the intercooler and back up to the throttle body. I don't have a picture but is basically takes a 90 degree bend out of the intercooler and then two 45 degree bends back twards the engine then a 90 degree back up between the radiator and the engine
Next: The piping for the blow off valve and to the throttle body. This is a rough view of the piping up to the TB. The blow off valve was not in this picture and where you see that metal coupler at, that is where the BOV will be. Your going to want to clean up the welds and such to make it look nice. I added exhaust cement on all of my charge pipe welds to assure that there was no pressure leaks.
Next: When your done you want the charge pipe to look something like this. Make it look nice and also you will need to weld up a bung for the intake air tempeture sensor. I drilled a 1/2 inch hole in the pipe so that the sensor would sit in the air stream in the charge piping. Then I used a nut that I welded on, then ground down. Then just extend the wireing for the sensor itself and your good to go.
Next: The blow off valve. I would not recommend this RS-type of BOV but it served its purpose for the time being. I actually bought a adapter off of Ebay so that I didn't have to weld the flange for the BOV, just weld in the ends of the adapter into the existing piping that you already have layed out. I personally only welded one end of the adapter to the pipe so that I could remove the piping to the throttle body in the event that you need room to work or are taking the engine apart.
I don't have a very good picture of the blow off valve but you can see it many pictures to get a idea of where I put it. (bottom right hand corner, its blue) This BOV will have a port on it. You will need to run a vac line to the back of your intake manifold so that when you let off the throttle and a vaccum is sensed it will open the BOV and release boost pressure. Use the heavest but yet smallest diameter hose you can, and try to make the routing as short as possible.
Last edited by fasteddi; 12-10-2012 at 06:56 PM.
04-22-2012, 05:35 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Fasteddi/Turbo install guide/ still editing the thread.please dont post on this.
Oiling feed and return.
First I used a t-fitting to intercept the oil feed from the oil pressure sensor that is right next to the oil filter. There are misc. fittings in this build once again crativity is a big part but if you would PM me I still have all the size and length information you would need to complete this. You will run this 4an hose up to the top of the turbo for the oil feed. The routing doesn't matter just make it as short as possible and out of the way of the belts and anything else that could possibly ruin the hose. Zip ties are you friend in this case so secure all the oil and vaccum lines WELL as well as loose wires.
Here are my picture of the oil routing for the feed line. Don't look at the fat (10An) lines as they are the oil return lines and are not finished in this picture.
Next: The hardest part that I ran into else then tuning the ECM. The oil return line. You will need to weld a bung onto the oil pan, right here is where you will want to weld it.
Here is a picture of the return. You will want to use a punch and knock a hole in your oil pan about 1/2 to 3/4" of a inch (basically close to the same size as the bung you will weld in, just do not make the hole larger then the bung) Now when you weld this you need to be very carful and don't take the oil out of the oil pan because vapor is explosive. Just take your time and tack weld the bung all the way arround then do it again, and again untill you think that it is sealed up. Once your done just drain the oil and put new oil in along with a filter.
Heres the bung welded on. It is VERY important to make sure that your oil return line is always on a downward slope back to the oil pan as gravity is our friend here and helps the oil returrn.
First I used a t-fitting to intercept the oil feed from the oil pressure sensor that is right next to the oil filter. There are misc. fittings in this build once again crativity is a big part but if you would PM me I still have all the size and length information you would need to complete this. You will run this 4an hose up to the top of the turbo for the oil feed. The routing doesn't matter just make it as short as possible and out of the way of the belts and anything else that could possibly ruin the hose. Zip ties are you friend in this case so secure all the oil and vaccum lines WELL as well as loose wires.
Here are my picture of the oil routing for the feed line. Don't look at the fat (10An) lines as they are the oil return lines and are not finished in this picture.
Next: The hardest part that I ran into else then tuning the ECM. The oil return line. You will need to weld a bung onto the oil pan, right here is where you will want to weld it.
Here is a picture of the return. You will want to use a punch and knock a hole in your oil pan about 1/2 to 3/4" of a inch (basically close to the same size as the bung you will weld in, just do not make the hole larger then the bung) Now when you weld this you need to be very carful and don't take the oil out of the oil pan because vapor is explosive. Just take your time and tack weld the bung all the way arround then do it again, and again untill you think that it is sealed up. Once your done just drain the oil and put new oil in along with a filter.
Heres the bung welded on. It is VERY important to make sure that your oil return line is always on a downward slope back to the oil pan as gravity is our friend here and helps the oil returrn.
Last edited by fasteddi; 12-10-2012 at 07:21 PM.
04-22-2012, 05:58 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Fasteddi/Turbo install guide/ still editing the thread.please dont post on this.
Fueling
Next: Injectors
I got some 28lbs injectors from a member on here so thats what I used. The process of removing the injectors is by no means hard. I won't go into detail about them but there are many threads on this subject on this forum.
Next: Fuel Pump.
I actually made it about two months before my stock fuel pump died. I've heard that the stock pump will work for awhile but in my case it did not. I got a Walbro 255LPH pump which every car guy has heard of. This option is really up to you as you pump may last along time or not very long at all.
Wideband o2 sensor kit
Next: I think that a wideband o2 sensor is a must as it ensures that you know the air fuel ratio of your car. Its basically a must for a boosted car in my opinion, exspecially since im a beginner at tuning.
Next: you need to place the o2 sensor(whatever kit you buy) about 12-18 inches from the turbo outlet on the downpiping. Such as this: You can see it on the downpiping and I have the SLC-DIY2 kit from 14point7.com. Great item.
Next: Depending on the kit you have, I personally just assembled the wire in the kit then ran that into the guage/display in the car. For my kit I ran two 12vts switched power sources to the controler, one for the sensors heater, and one for the display along with a ground wire.
Also: Once again, depending on the o2 sensor controler, In my case I actually ran a simulated narrow band output into my ecm and also a liner output to my ecm. So this gave me the ability to get rid of the stock narrowband o2 sensor and also have datalogging with the wideband o2 sensor so that I could record the Air Fuel Ratio.
Boost controler
Depending on how you want to tune the car you have some options here. I am tuning the stock ecm(7730) with a $59 mask. I really do like the $59 code and I chose to use a silenoid boost controler. This controler is "told" what to do my means of the programed bin file(chip). With this controler you have very good control over the amount of boost you want to obtain and also the wastegate duty cycle so that you can control over boosting.
(here is the boost controler) You run the boost reference port off of the turbo into the controler, then out of the controler into the side port of the wategate. You also run a wire from the controler to F4 on the 7730 ecu then the other wire off the controler to a switched 12vts source. It's just that simple. Then you can adjust boost levels with the $59 code.
Next: Injectors
I got some 28lbs injectors from a member on here so thats what I used. The process of removing the injectors is by no means hard. I won't go into detail about them but there are many threads on this subject on this forum.
Next: Fuel Pump.
I actually made it about two months before my stock fuel pump died. I've heard that the stock pump will work for awhile but in my case it did not. I got a Walbro 255LPH pump which every car guy has heard of. This option is really up to you as you pump may last along time or not very long at all.
Wideband o2 sensor kit
Next: I think that a wideband o2 sensor is a must as it ensures that you know the air fuel ratio of your car. Its basically a must for a boosted car in my opinion, exspecially since im a beginner at tuning.
Next: you need to place the o2 sensor(whatever kit you buy) about 12-18 inches from the turbo outlet on the downpiping. Such as this: You can see it on the downpiping and I have the SLC-DIY2 kit from 14point7.com. Great item.
Next: Depending on the kit you have, I personally just assembled the wire in the kit then ran that into the guage/display in the car. For my kit I ran two 12vts switched power sources to the controler, one for the sensors heater, and one for the display along with a ground wire.
Also: Once again, depending on the o2 sensor controler, In my case I actually ran a simulated narrow band output into my ecm and also a liner output to my ecm. So this gave me the ability to get rid of the stock narrowband o2 sensor and also have datalogging with the wideband o2 sensor so that I could record the Air Fuel Ratio.
Boost controler
Depending on how you want to tune the car you have some options here. I am tuning the stock ecm(7730) with a $59 mask. I really do like the $59 code and I chose to use a silenoid boost controler. This controler is "told" what to do my means of the programed bin file(chip). With this controler you have very good control over the amount of boost you want to obtain and also the wastegate duty cycle so that you can control over boosting.
(here is the boost controler) You run the boost reference port off of the turbo into the controler, then out of the controler into the side port of the wategate. You also run a wire from the controler to F4 on the 7730 ecu then the other wire off the controler to a switched 12vts source. It's just that simple. Then you can adjust boost levels with the $59 code.
Last edited by fasteddi; 12-12-2012 at 05:14 AM.
04-22-2012, 06:35 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Fasteddi/Turbo install guide/ still editing the thread.please dont post on this.
Tuning:
Now I used my stock ECM on my application useing a $59 mask. This is where you need to decide if you want to use your stock ecm or get a seperate system such as a megasquirt. There is alot of information out there for both cases and different masks you can use on the stock ecm.
Let me also add that if you have a 3.1L V6 you will have a (MAP) manifold absolute pressure(Speed Densisty), system. In this case do not ever attempt to add boost to the car without a tune or you will kill your motor in a matter of seconds under boost.
If you have a (MAF) Mass Air Flow system in the 2.8L V6 then your system will accept some levels of boost, up to 7-8psi IIRC. But take it from me boost is very addictive and you WILL want to add more and more boost!! But regardless if you have MAF you will still need more fuel either from larger injectors, a adjustable fuel pressure regulator(AFPR) or a FMU device of somesort.
The items and a rough price list of my build:
Items with () arround them I bought after/ or before the build took place just for preformance and with the exception of the fuel pump which just died.
All these prices are shipped and mostly from ebay.
Turbo. $118 shipped t3/t4 hybrid
Blow off valve. $29 shipped JDM cnc
Wastgate. $37 shipped 38mm external w/8psi spring
3 Bar Map sensor. $40 shipped
2 silicon reducers. $17 shipped 4/ply
All materials for oil lines. $85 shipped
2 Turbo exhaust flanges. $32 shipped
Innercooler. 27"x7"x2.5" Intercooler $55 shipped
2 1/2 '' piping for charge pipe and exhaust. $40
Misc. Items such as 90* bends, t-fittings, argon/co2. welder wire, colder plugs $120
28Lbs GN Injectors $35 shipped
AC Delco #214-474 and Pigtail $45 shipped
Tuning equiptment from moates/G1 Kit, Burn2 $130
ALDL Cable from aldlcables.com $50
(Walbro 255LPH Fuel Pump $100)
(2800 stall converter $110)
(Exhaust heat wrap 2x100ft roll $35)
(delta camshaft 260 grind w/lifters $118)
(Ported heads myself, and gaskets, valve springs..exc) $100
Total cost without the stall converter, heat wrap, and fuel pump: $788
Total cost with the stall converter, heat wrap, fuel pump, cam/heads: $1151
I have drag raced the car and easily made a 14.03@98mph pass thus far. I would estimate that the turbo added a good 100Hp and thats about 10 bucks a Hp and im sure as I get better at tuning and I can turn the boost up the Hp=$ ratio will look even better.
In conclusion, this thread is just to give a person the idea of what may all be involved. Please do your research on tuning as I feel that that was the hardest part of the build in general. You can never learn enough about tuning a car weather it be a boosted or N/A application!
Now I used my stock ECM on my application useing a $59 mask. This is where you need to decide if you want to use your stock ecm or get a seperate system such as a megasquirt. There is alot of information out there for both cases and different masks you can use on the stock ecm.
Let me also add that if you have a 3.1L V6 you will have a (MAP) manifold absolute pressure(Speed Densisty), system. In this case do not ever attempt to add boost to the car without a tune or you will kill your motor in a matter of seconds under boost.
If you have a (MAF) Mass Air Flow system in the 2.8L V6 then your system will accept some levels of boost, up to 7-8psi IIRC. But take it from me boost is very addictive and you WILL want to add more and more boost!! But regardless if you have MAF you will still need more fuel either from larger injectors, a adjustable fuel pressure regulator(AFPR) or a FMU device of somesort.
The items and a rough price list of my build:
Items with () arround them I bought after/ or before the build took place just for preformance and with the exception of the fuel pump which just died.
All these prices are shipped and mostly from ebay.
Turbo. $118 shipped t3/t4 hybrid
Blow off valve. $29 shipped JDM cnc
Wastgate. $37 shipped 38mm external w/8psi spring
3 Bar Map sensor. $40 shipped
2 silicon reducers. $17 shipped 4/ply
All materials for oil lines. $85 shipped
2 Turbo exhaust flanges. $32 shipped
Innercooler. 27"x7"x2.5" Intercooler $55 shipped
2 1/2 '' piping for charge pipe and exhaust. $40
Misc. Items such as 90* bends, t-fittings, argon/co2. welder wire, colder plugs $120
28Lbs GN Injectors $35 shipped
AC Delco #214-474 and Pigtail $45 shipped
Tuning equiptment from moates/G1 Kit, Burn2 $130
ALDL Cable from aldlcables.com $50
(Walbro 255LPH Fuel Pump $100)
(2800 stall converter $110)
(Exhaust heat wrap 2x100ft roll $35)
(delta camshaft 260 grind w/lifters $118)
(Ported heads myself, and gaskets, valve springs..exc) $100
Total cost without the stall converter, heat wrap, and fuel pump: $788
Total cost with the stall converter, heat wrap, fuel pump, cam/heads: $1151
I have drag raced the car and easily made a 14.03@98mph pass thus far. I would estimate that the turbo added a good 100Hp and thats about 10 bucks a Hp and im sure as I get better at tuning and I can turn the boost up the Hp=$ ratio will look even better.
In conclusion, this thread is just to give a person the idea of what may all be involved. Please do your research on tuning as I feel that that was the hardest part of the build in general. You can never learn enough about tuning a car weather it be a boosted or N/A application!
Last edited by fasteddi; 04-22-2012 at 08:00 PM.
04-22-2012, 06:43 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Fasteddi/Turbo install guide/ still editing the thread.please dont post on this.
The finished product!! And pics of the exhasut wraping.
Don't mine the stock o2 sensor its just plugging the hole/its not operating
Of course the fun times when its boosted! (tossed slicks on for the first time)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwJORj7Nfgg
Hope this thread inspired someone. Thanks for reading it and passing on the word that just because you have a V6 doesn't mean you car condemed to having a slow undesirable sports car.
Don't mine the stock o2 sensor its just plugging the hole/its not operating
Of course the fun times when its boosted! (tossed slicks on for the first time)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwJORj7Nfgg
Hope this thread inspired someone. Thanks for reading it and passing on the word that just because you have a V6 doesn't mean you car condemed to having a slow undesirable sports car.
Last edited by fasteddi; 12-10-2012 at 07:02 PM.
05-07-2012, 06:45 PM
#7
Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Discussion about this guide can be found here:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/6...iscussion.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/6...iscussion.html
Last edited by Six_Shooter; 05-07-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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06-10-2012, 01:24 PM
#8
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Just wanted to update the results on the build.
Total price thus far. Roughtly $1287 in total as of now. I have netted a best of 13.36@102Mph at the local dragstrip. This would make me guess that I have near 280Hp at the flywheel. So for a even $1300 I literlly doubled the Horsepower. Let me add that the total cost includes a alky injection kit that I have NOT yet added to the car, which will allow the car to be safer and also give me room to tune some more power. Honestly I would bet I could squeze a high 12 seconds pass out of this car safely on roughly the same about of boost I am running now once I get that alky kit on the car and tuned.
Heres a link to the time slip for proof of the cause and also a few short video from the first time I ran a 13 sec pass's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY3dlu5nVMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awLA5x2PjzM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSNDeJ9d2sE
Id also like to add the Hp/$ ratio so far. $1300(with the alky)/ 140Hp added= $9.28 Per Hp. Now That number should continue to look better as time goes on but still its a amazing fact of the possibilites. I can honestly say with my skills that I dont have, It was cheeper to do this build then a lsx engine swap like I considered in the past.
The best part also is that I have a decent MPG car thats reliable, and man do those V8 guys hate it when I go zooming by them. Mid to low 13's at the moment is nothing to sneeze about in a stock looking thirdgen Camaro, let alown a streetable, reliable old designed V6 engine.
Thanks for looking though the sticky fellow thirdgens.
Total price thus far. Roughtly $1287 in total as of now. I have netted a best of 13.36@102Mph at the local dragstrip. This would make me guess that I have near 280Hp at the flywheel. So for a even $1300 I literlly doubled the Horsepower. Let me add that the total cost includes a alky injection kit that I have NOT yet added to the car, which will allow the car to be safer and also give me room to tune some more power. Honestly I would bet I could squeze a high 12 seconds pass out of this car safely on roughly the same about of boost I am running now once I get that alky kit on the car and tuned.
Heres a link to the time slip for proof of the cause and also a few short video from the first time I ran a 13 sec pass's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY3dlu5nVMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awLA5x2PjzM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSNDeJ9d2sE
Id also like to add the Hp/$ ratio so far. $1300(with the alky)/ 140Hp added= $9.28 Per Hp. Now That number should continue to look better as time goes on but still its a amazing fact of the possibilites. I can honestly say with my skills that I dont have, It was cheeper to do this build then a lsx engine swap like I considered in the past.
The best part also is that I have a decent MPG car thats reliable, and man do those V8 guys hate it when I go zooming by them. Mid to low 13's at the moment is nothing to sneeze about in a stock looking thirdgen Camaro, let alown a streetable, reliable old designed V6 engine.
Thanks for looking though the sticky fellow thirdgens.
Last edited by fasteddi; 06-10-2012 at 01:42 PM.
06-12-2012, 08:57 PM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Fasteddi; Great doc on this build. I have a 91 RS 3.1L that I am working on right now. I want to see if you could send me some start up $59 bin, xdf, and adx files. Can't seem to get on the code59 website anymore.
And again, gread doc and good luck with the low 12's....
Thanks
And again, gread doc and good luck with the low 12's....
Thanks
06-14-2012, 08:08 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
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Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Fasteddi; Great doc on this build. I have a 91 RS 3.1L that I am working on right now. I want to see if you could send me some start up $59 bin, xdf, and adx files. Can't seem to get on the code59 website anymore.
And again, gread doc and good luck with the low 12's....
Thanks
And again, gread doc and good luck with the low 12's....
Thanks
Also that tune is for 9.5PSI IIRC command. And the tune overall is very conservitive but I have 28Lbs injectors with my fuel pressure jacked 10PSI higher then stock so in all reality the injectors are probly closer to 32-34Lbs. Just wanted to let you know for the fueling.
If ya need some more help, let me know and I'll help as much as I can.
06-16-2012, 02:00 PM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Thanks for the files...
Starting my build now. Ordered a custom cam from CompCams for turbo app on the 3.1L. Will post my results later on when I am running.
Again thanks for the startup files.
Starting my build now. Ordered a custom cam from CompCams for turbo app on the 3.1L. Will post my results later on when I am running.
Again thanks for the startup files.
06-16-2012, 04:22 PM
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
what are the specs on the cam u ordered?
chances are u could have got the same cam for around 100's from delta
i called comp back in the day when i did my turbo build and there custom reccomndation was actually just an off the shelf cam,unless ur doing a v8 motor comp really wont bother with trying to come up with a good turbo cam for you
if it is one of the off the shelf grinds i would cancel the order and get the cam from delta cam+new lifters is about 115 bucks to ur door
chances are u could have got the same cam for around 100's from delta
i called comp back in the day when i did my turbo build and there custom reccomndation was actually just an off the shelf cam,unless ur doing a v8 motor comp really wont bother with trying to come up with a good turbo cam for you
if it is one of the off the shelf grinds i would cancel the order and get the cam from delta cam+new lifters is about 115 bucks to ur door
06-16-2012, 05:47 PM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Cam specs were stated as follows:
Duration @ .050” 213°/212°
Lift with 1.5 Rockers .429“/.419“
Lobe Sep. Angle 111.5°
Any comments? It certainly is not a stock grind
I never heard of the Delta outfit. Can you pass along some info?
Duration @ .050” 213°/212°
Lift with 1.5 Rockers .429“/.419“
Lobe Sep. Angle 111.5°
Any comments? It certainly is not a stock grind
I never heard of the Delta outfit. Can you pass along some info?
06-16-2012, 06:06 PM
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
the 2.8/3.1 will make peak tq around 4k rpms
cancell that order ur much better off with a 260 grind from delta cams
if i recall correctly the 260 cam is 206/216 @.050 and .450/.475 lift
ive used that cam and its a great cam,fasteddi also uses the 260 cam
deltacam.com
06-16-2012, 10:52 PM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
No joke either...And yes I recommend the delta cam. I love the price and I noticed a big gain when I just ported my heads and added the 260 Grind cam last fall before I added the trubo. Good outfit and good product.
I can link the paperwork I got with the cam tommorow if youd like. I just have to dig it out.
06-17-2012, 05:54 PM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Cam specs, not the largest but works well IMO.
Also here is the best bin(attatched) I could say would work for you now that I think of it, let me know if you can read/use it. If so, adjust the F28 table till you Idle at roughly 14.0-14.5Afr when car is up to temp(at least 5 minuets) Also adjust the PSI Boost for what you want. Unless your using the wastegate spring in which you won't have to mess with the Boost table. Just watch afr's and you should NEVER see knock on this bin if you have afr's from 11.5-12.5 for boost levels above 6Psi.
In tables, under spark,
Adjust your Knock attack rate and recovery rate if you want.
Add 0.08-0.10 degrees/mSEC(Attack Rate F6)
Multiply by 0.90 for (Recovery Rate F7).
In scalers, under spark, spark reference angle, input your base timing. I have it set to 8.5 degrees(8.44 in the bin)
Also look at the fan settings. Under scalers, electric fan/intercooler pump.
I have my fan to turn on manually and have not used those scalers so look them over well and make sure you have the values set where you want them.
Keep me updated and let me know if I can help.
Also here is the best bin(attatched) I could say would work for you now that I think of it, let me know if you can read/use it. If so, adjust the F28 table till you Idle at roughly 14.0-14.5Afr when car is up to temp(at least 5 minuets) Also adjust the PSI Boost for what you want. Unless your using the wastegate spring in which you won't have to mess with the Boost table. Just watch afr's and you should NEVER see knock on this bin if you have afr's from 11.5-12.5 for boost levels above 6Psi.
In tables, under spark,
Adjust your Knock attack rate and recovery rate if you want.
Add 0.08-0.10 degrees/mSEC(Attack Rate F6)
Multiply by 0.90 for (Recovery Rate F7).
In scalers, under spark, spark reference angle, input your base timing. I have it set to 8.5 degrees(8.44 in the bin)
Also look at the fan settings. Under scalers, electric fan/intercooler pump.
I have my fan to turn on manually and have not used those scalers so look them over well and make sure you have the values set where you want them.
Keep me updated and let me know if I can help.
Last edited by fasteddi; 06-17-2012 at 06:12 PM.
06-23-2012, 11:50 AM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Some more recent pics to add to the sticky:
Lots of wires but somewhat neat?
The Alky pump. Very resonable set up and works wounders. I reccomend it to any one boosting a stock bottom end car for piece of mind.
Also the alky is in the tank behind the pump. You can see how much fluid I went though in about 8 passes.
Another random picture
Alky injection nozzle set up
Through the eyes of a fast V6
The key to making a V6 thirdgen keep up and beat V8's
Lots of wires but somewhat neat?
The Alky pump. Very resonable set up and works wounders. I reccomend it to any one boosting a stock bottom end car for piece of mind.
Also the alky is in the tank behind the pump. You can see how much fluid I went though in about 8 passes.
Another random picture
Alky injection nozzle set up
Through the eyes of a fast V6
The key to making a V6 thirdgen keep up and beat V8's
06-24-2012, 07:23 PM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Very cool build fasteddi! Makes me want to do one for the hell of it 
08-12-2012, 12:57 PM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Update: Turbo log headers
Heres the base of the headers and what I started with. A member on here build them so I got them off of him just to save the hassle since Im not that good of a fabricator to make these up.
The cons on the log headers are the flow compared to tubular ones. BUT compared to what I did have(stock manifolds and under k member set up) it is way better.
The pros are now more clearence issues under the car period. I got rid of all the exhaust under the car. There is just a cross over pipe that connects the headers and that is shaped under the oil pan.
The headers
The x over-easy just connect the two headers with the least amount of piping as possible. Just hard to get the flanges sealed up correct. But once it was WOW is all I have to say.
Not the best but believe me it does not leak PERIOD. all 2 1/2" pipe on this car. Also if you see some oil and other fluids I literly took the heads off the other day and also I was dealing with a pcv valve issue which is now fixed.
Pass. Side set up/complete
Drivers side Header flange/x-over flange
Passanger side Header Flange to X-over
Finished set up so far
Here is a latest run data on the street with the car. No track times with the headers yet. Thank the rain for that....
0-60mph in 4.98 seconds
0-100mph in 11.25 seconds
0-105mph in 12.27 seconds
This is with 15.5 commanded PSI. Also with street tires and a "non" boosted lauch.
Enjoy this recent vid. This video is with the wastegate spring only, which is arround 13.5 to 14psi
As track times arise I will update the progress as the season is coming to a end soon.
Heres the base of the headers and what I started with. A member on here build them so I got them off of him just to save the hassle since Im not that good of a fabricator to make these up.
The cons on the log headers are the flow compared to tubular ones. BUT compared to what I did have(stock manifolds and under k member set up) it is way better.
The pros are now more clearence issues under the car period. I got rid of all the exhaust under the car. There is just a cross over pipe that connects the headers and that is shaped under the oil pan.
The headers
The x over-easy just connect the two headers with the least amount of piping as possible. Just hard to get the flanges sealed up correct. But once it was WOW is all I have to say.
Not the best but believe me it does not leak PERIOD. all 2 1/2" pipe on this car. Also if you see some oil and other fluids I literly took the heads off the other day and also I was dealing with a pcv valve issue which is now fixed.
Pass. Side set up/complete
Drivers side Header flange/x-over flange
Passanger side Header Flange to X-over
Finished set up so far
Here is a latest run data on the street with the car. No track times with the headers yet. Thank the rain for that....
0-60mph in 4.98 seconds
0-100mph in 11.25 seconds
0-105mph in 12.27 seconds
This is with 15.5 commanded PSI. Also with street tires and a "non" boosted lauch.
Enjoy this recent vid.
As track times arise I will update the progress as the season is coming to a end soon.
Last edited by fasteddi; 08-12-2012 at 06:04 PM.
08-18-2012, 08:59 PM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
11-07-2012, 05:58 PM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Heres the lastest addition to the turbo build.
Got rid of the old turbo for a new. Its a GT3582 Ebay one. 270 bucks shipped to the house and will make the same amount of power at a substantial less amount of PSI
Got a newer block and cleaned it up.
No sence in me running a intercooler at the moment. Alky only for now. Shortened the piping up considerbly and should be better for boost as I had a good 8 bends before that made the real deal length of the pipe arround 30ft equivilent.
New pics BELOW
Got rid of the old turbo for a new. Its a GT3582 Ebay one. 270 bucks shipped to the house and will make the same amount of power at a substantial less amount of PSI
Got a newer block and cleaned it up.
No sence in me running a intercooler at the moment. Alky only for now. Shortened the piping up considerbly and should be better for boost as I had a good 8 bends before that made the real deal length of the pipe arround 30ft equivilent.
New pics BELOW
Last edited by fasteddi; 12-10-2012 at 07:26 PM.
12-10-2012, 07:09 PM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Ok most of the pics are fixed and heres some additial pics that may be of some help. Thanks again guys for letting me share the build.
Old turbo on the RIGHT, New turbo on the LEFT. GT3582 Godspeed Turbo. 275 bucks from ebay.
Heres the turbo headers. They are jointed at the rear using a homemade crossover pipe. Then goes right up to the turbo.
New routing for the charge pipe. There is now NO intercooler on the car. I just use alcohol injection to cool the charge off. Also really helped me on making sure I have no boost leaks from my poor welding on the previous charge piping.
(I DO NOT recommend NOT using a Intercooler even if you have alky unless you you what your doing. I plan to use one soon but again this car is getting farther and farther away from being a streeet car. I say this becasue If your tune isnt spot on and your not paying attention to Intake temps, if that alky fails you will trash your engine due to detination)
Heres the newer down pipe for the turbo. Its now 3" inch piping. I would strongly recommend making this as long as possible. I dont drive the car arround except a big toy. So its loud. But its managable. But in this set up I have there is NO piping going under the car. So ground clearence is NO longer a issue.
New set up ready for install.
Old turbo on the RIGHT, New turbo on the LEFT. GT3582 Godspeed Turbo. 275 bucks from ebay.
Heres the turbo headers. They are jointed at the rear using a homemade crossover pipe. Then goes right up to the turbo.
New routing for the charge pipe. There is now NO intercooler on the car. I just use alcohol injection to cool the charge off. Also really helped me on making sure I have no boost leaks from my poor welding on the previous charge piping.
(I DO NOT recommend NOT using a Intercooler even if you have alky unless you you what your doing. I plan to use one soon but again this car is getting farther and farther away from being a streeet car. I say this becasue If your tune isnt spot on and your not paying attention to Intake temps, if that alky fails you will trash your engine due to detination)
Heres the newer down pipe for the turbo. Its now 3" inch piping. I would strongly recommend making this as long as possible. I dont drive the car arround except a big toy. So its loud. But its managable. But in this set up I have there is NO piping going under the car. So ground clearence is NO longer a issue.
New set up ready for install.
Last edited by fasteddi; 12-10-2012 at 07:17 PM.
12-10-2012, 07:12 PM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Installed
Heres the latest Picture. I have added a turbo blanket that can be had off Ebay for about 40 bucks to keep the heat down a little.
Heres the latest Video and such. Any questions or help needed let me know and Ill share what Ive learned as best as I can.
Heres the latest Picture. I have added a turbo blanket that can be had off Ebay for about 40 bucks to keep the heat down a little.
Heres the latest Video and such. Any questions or help needed let me know and Ill share what Ive learned as best as I can.
12-30-2012, 07:03 AM
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Very basic ideas...
So simple but yet not. The main principals and basic flow chart of a turbocharger.
Hot gasses expand!! Thermodynamics at there best. So here we capture all the exhaust gasses from the engine and then route them through the turbochargers turbine. The expanding gas pushes the turbine on the turbocharger which is directly linked to the impeller that then is shaped so that the air is being drawn into the turbocharger, then compresses and there it is!! Boost!!!
What is detination(spark knock)
Spark knock is when the ingition unwanted process in you cylinder is lit off before the intentional spark from the spark plugs.
If this happends your piston still has to overcome the extreme pressures in the cylinder and continue its upward stroke.
Reasons this happends?? People poorly tune there cars, run lower octane fuel, run the wrong spark plugs, run way too much timing.
Alot of people dont have a means of checking spark knock but in high compression engines, n20, or boosted applications it is a must!! Over time the spark knock will eat up brearings, rings, ringlands, and even blow head gaskets.
Ive seen many people at the race track not have a air fuel ratio guage let along a knock sensor. This makes me laugh as just because you have XX amount of money into your forged items does not save you from detinaion(spark knock). Every year I know someone that blows up there exspencive engine due to spark knock or a lean mixture. Same on them for not thinnking they are suspetable from this issue.
Ways to avoid spark knock?? Run higher octane and or alky injection. Keep intake temps as low as possible, run colder plugs, run less timing, run less boost and or compression.
Water/Methanol Injection(alky injection) Key Basics:
You know how if you spray a garden hose mist and it seems cooler even if the water is actually the same or higher temp then the surrounding air?? This is how alky injection works. It sprays a fine mist of methanol and or water, at high pressures into the intake track after the turbocharger. The (flash point) of methanol is much higher then lower octane gas....
Having this property allows the heat of compression due to the turbocharger, to be disipated into the methanol mist/air mix. This also allows a more dense (cooler) air charge. Allowing more power to be had from the set up along with detination resistance. A cooler air tempeture into the engine is crutial for boosted applications.
http://www.midstateantiquestockcarcl...ol_vs_gas.html
Boost Leak:
A boost leak means that somewhere in the turbo or intake, there is an area where the air (boost) is escaping. Typically a boost leak is caused by a loose or bad seal, cracked housing, etc. When a boost leak is present, the turbo will be able to generate boost, but it may not be able to hold it at a constant level and pressure will drop off proportionally to the size of the leak.
Take this from someone who has had many boost leaks due to the exhaust piping and charge piping. Boost leaks cause loss of massive Horsepower.
...
A leak on the exhaust side will stall the compressor from generating boost and make it very laggy. If the leak is bad enought it may not build much of any boost at all.
A leak on the charge piping will cause a very inefficient state for the turbo at times. If you have a leak and say your building boost to 12 psi at your MAP or MAF sensor, the turbo may actually be generating 17psi to to overcome the loss of pressure. If the turbo isnt as efficent at those boost levels you will have a hotter less dence air charge thus reducing over all HP potential.
Oxygen sensor
What a oxygen sensor does:
This sensor measures how much oxygen is left in the exhaust gasses. If there is little oxygen in the mixture then it is "rich" The oppisite is then there is too much oxygen=Lean. This is important for and preformace minded car. A lean can cause burnt up piston rings, melted parts(from too hot of a burn), lack of Tq and HP. A rich mixture can cause washed out rings(where the oil is washed away), loss of Hp and loss of TQ.
General guidelines for the mixutre. Stoich is technically 14.7:1. Meaning 14.7 parts air to 1 part gas. In the real world stoich is 14.2:1. This is because of the ethanol added to gasoline. FYI pure alcohol/methanol stoich is 7:1 Ratio. Keep in mind that stoich is the ratio where the combustion burn is perfect. The most efficient for the most part.
Tuning ratios. Idle is best at 14.5-15.5:1. Wide open throttle is best at 11.5-12.5:1. Crusing on the highway is best at 14.5-15.5:1. These ratios are just general guidelines as every car is different and may be more effiecient or make more power at different ratios.
Great quote. "Lean is mean but rich is SAFE
Map sensor abslolute basics:
What is a map sensor?
A map sensor(manifold absolute pressure) sensor is used on cars to sence how much KPA(pressure and vaccum) a engine is using. IE: 100 KPA is roughtly atmospheric pressure(14.7psia). Psia is pounds per square inch absolute. These tearms are very important when it comes to the cars computer knowing how much air is being drawn into the engine, or pushed into the engine when boosted)
When a naturaly aspired(no power adder) car is WOT(wide open thottle) the MAP sensor will be close to reading 100Kpa at any given time. 0kpa would be in a perfect vaccum(which is 28 inches hg)
...
Now when this comes into play is when you are tuning the car. Knowing the KPA value along with the RPMs of the engine is so important when tuning the SA(spark Advance) and VE(volumetric efficiency) tables. FYI, The Ve table is just a fueling table.
This sensor is crutial for tuning and without it we would have now way to measure the pressure in the manifold or let the computer understand what is happening. This sensor is mainly used in "speed density" applications which refers to the math equation of how the ecm(electronic contol module) differs the air flow.
So simple but yet not. The main principals and basic flow chart of a turbocharger.
Hot gasses expand!! Thermodynamics at there best. So here we capture all the exhaust gasses from the engine and then route them through the turbochargers turbine. The expanding gas pushes the turbine on the turbocharger which is directly linked to the impeller that then is shaped so that the air is being drawn into the turbocharger, then compresses and there it is!! Boost!!!
What is detination(spark knock)
Spark knock is when the ingition unwanted process in you cylinder is lit off before the intentional spark from the spark plugs.
If this happends your piston still has to overcome the extreme pressures in the cylinder and continue its upward stroke.
Reasons this happends?? People poorly tune there cars, run lower octane fuel, run the wrong spark plugs, run way too much timing.
Alot of people dont have a means of checking spark knock but in high compression engines, n20, or boosted applications it is a must!! Over time the spark knock will eat up brearings, rings, ringlands, and even blow head gaskets.
Ive seen many people at the race track not have a air fuel ratio guage let along a knock sensor. This makes me laugh as just because you have XX amount of money into your forged items does not save you from detinaion(spark knock). Every year I know someone that blows up there exspencive engine due to spark knock or a lean mixture. Same on them for not thinnking they are suspetable from this issue.
Ways to avoid spark knock?? Run higher octane and or alky injection. Keep intake temps as low as possible, run colder plugs, run less timing, run less boost and or compression.
Water/Methanol Injection(alky injection) Key Basics:
You know how if you spray a garden hose mist and it seems cooler even if the water is actually the same or higher temp then the surrounding air?? This is how alky injection works. It sprays a fine mist of methanol and or water, at high pressures into the intake track after the turbocharger. The (flash point) of methanol is much higher then lower octane gas....
Having this property allows the heat of compression due to the turbocharger, to be disipated into the methanol mist/air mix. This also allows a more dense (cooler) air charge. Allowing more power to be had from the set up along with detination resistance. A cooler air tempeture into the engine is crutial for boosted applications.
http://www.midstateantiquestockcarcl...ol_vs_gas.html
Boost Leak:
A boost leak means that somewhere in the turbo or intake, there is an area where the air (boost) is escaping. Typically a boost leak is caused by a loose or bad seal, cracked housing, etc. When a boost leak is present, the turbo will be able to generate boost, but it may not be able to hold it at a constant level and pressure will drop off proportionally to the size of the leak.
Take this from someone who has had many boost leaks due to the exhaust piping and charge piping. Boost leaks cause loss of massive Horsepower.
...
A leak on the exhaust side will stall the compressor from generating boost and make it very laggy. If the leak is bad enought it may not build much of any boost at all.
A leak on the charge piping will cause a very inefficient state for the turbo at times. If you have a leak and say your building boost to 12 psi at your MAP or MAF sensor, the turbo may actually be generating 17psi to to overcome the loss of pressure. If the turbo isnt as efficent at those boost levels you will have a hotter less dence air charge thus reducing over all HP potential.
Oxygen sensor
What a oxygen sensor does:
This sensor measures how much oxygen is left in the exhaust gasses. If there is little oxygen in the mixture then it is "rich" The oppisite is then there is too much oxygen=Lean. This is important for and preformace minded car. A lean can cause burnt up piston rings, melted parts(from too hot of a burn), lack of Tq and HP. A rich mixture can cause washed out rings(where the oil is washed away), loss of Hp and loss of TQ.
General guidelines for the mixutre. Stoich is technically 14.7:1. Meaning 14.7 parts air to 1 part gas. In the real world stoich is 14.2:1. This is because of the ethanol added to gasoline. FYI pure alcohol/methanol stoich is 7:1 Ratio. Keep in mind that stoich is the ratio where the combustion burn is perfect. The most efficient for the most part.
Tuning ratios. Idle is best at 14.5-15.5:1. Wide open throttle is best at 11.5-12.5:1. Crusing on the highway is best at 14.5-15.5:1. These ratios are just general guidelines as every car is different and may be more effiecient or make more power at different ratios.
Great quote. "Lean is mean but rich is SAFE
Map sensor abslolute basics:
What is a map sensor?
A map sensor(manifold absolute pressure) sensor is used on cars to sence how much KPA(pressure and vaccum) a engine is using. IE: 100 KPA is roughtly atmospheric pressure(14.7psia). Psia is pounds per square inch absolute. These tearms are very important when it comes to the cars computer knowing how much air is being drawn into the engine, or pushed into the engine when boosted)
When a naturaly aspired(no power adder) car is WOT(wide open thottle) the MAP sensor will be close to reading 100Kpa at any given time. 0kpa would be in a perfect vaccum(which is 28 inches hg)
...
Now when this comes into play is when you are tuning the car. Knowing the KPA value along with the RPMs of the engine is so important when tuning the SA(spark Advance) and VE(volumetric efficiency) tables. FYI, The Ve table is just a fueling table.
This sensor is crutial for tuning and without it we would have now way to measure the pressure in the manifold or let the computer understand what is happening. This sensor is mainly used in "speed density" applications which refers to the math equation of how the ecm(electronic contol module) differs the air flow.
Last edited by fasteddi; 01-13-2013 at 06:32 AM.
07-11-2013, 04:14 PM
#27
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Updates thus far from 2013:
I have added a few parts.
A MSD 6 plus CD box
Taylor 8.2 wires
MSD Coil
A new AEM Alky pump as my old one died
A 320cc AEM nozzle with a inline check valve
Also a knock off Velosity Stack
TOTAL PRICE NOW: $2100 roughly
Car made 2 high 12 second passes last weekend. I still get about 25mpg on the highway in open loop. I've been running about 12-13psi of boost at the track. I know the car has a better 1/4 mile time in it once I get to use the 2 step on the msd box at the track.
Im a proud V6 owner and clearly made a turd engine come to life. I may have spend 2k on the car but it has some pretty good supporting mods to keep it going to 11's one day as long as the stocker guts in the engine hold up.
Here's a video of the past few months of racing and some of the antilag/2 step also.
I have added a few parts.
A MSD 6 plus CD box
Taylor 8.2 wires
MSD Coil
A new AEM Alky pump as my old one died
A 320cc AEM nozzle with a inline check valve
Also a knock off Velosity Stack
TOTAL PRICE NOW: $2100 roughly
Car made 2 high 12 second passes last weekend. I still get about 25mpg on the highway in open loop. I've been running about 12-13psi of boost at the track. I know the car has a better 1/4 mile time in it once I get to use the 2 step on the msd box at the track.
Im a proud V6 owner and clearly made a turd engine come to life. I may have spend 2k on the car but it has some pretty good supporting mods to keep it going to 11's one day as long as the stocker guts in the engine hold up.
Here's a video of the past few months of racing and some of the antilag/2 step also.
07-17-2013, 08:58 PM
#29
07-19-2013, 03:18 PM
#31
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
No problem. It was fun to share the build.
10-03-2013, 02:12 PM
#32
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Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
I was just wondering. How do you run vacuum lines for the brake booster?
10-03-2013, 03:43 PM
#33
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
I never had to change any of that. Still run the stock way with the stock check valve. Absolutely no problems
10-03-2013, 04:32 PM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Thanks. thats the stuff i like.
03-30-2016, 05:13 PM
#37
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
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Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
Since I just layed this out for a member I thought id add it here as well. I am not responsible if you kill your car with my tune. I want to say that first! The tune below is very soft on timing and is intended as a starter bin ONLY! It will need adjustment as every car is different but will start and run a car no problem with $59 and if your are lucky the boosted areas will be close as well. The tune below is for a 36lbs/hr injector set up.
Ok, attached are the adx, xdf, and bin files to start run and datalog and some helpful info.
First read though this power point any time you have a question. It helps immensely and is for code59 aka $59 mask which you will be running! Copy and paste if need to to view!
http://digware.webspaceforme.net/code59/101.ppt
I already told you but please don't go crazy with the boost at first. Slowly get into boost when you feel the car is ready, and keep a eye on the knock retard and AFRs. I know when its too much for my car, but I added knock retard attack rate to yours for added protection.....Fyi. That is how fast it retards timing when it sees knock. Its to protect your engine, but keep in mind a overly rich mix or stuff rattling will cause false knock and the sensor still thinks its knock. SO if you see any knock over 1 degree for any amount of time more then 1 second when getting into boost let off the gas instantly!
ALSO SET BASE TIMING TO 10* asap ON START UP or at least make sure its set there before you reconnect est wire!!! You can break it in there or just turn the dizzy to make it run for cam break in period of 10-15min at 2000-3000 varring rpm or what delta says on instructions. And just reconnect the est wire after the cam is broken it and make sure its at 10 degrees before top dead center before est wire is connected with a warm idle. This is the base timing that your tune thinks it has. 10 degrees BTDC
Also, free revving the engine or doing a burn out will almost always cause false knock so keep that in mind when data-logging.
This tune I am sending you is from a 13.08@104mph on 12psi of boost gt3582 and delta 260 cam. Its not the most fuel efficient tune but it will work for a good starter file. I took out a little more fuel then i had originally to make up for your stock heads, changed fueling from my 48lbs injectors to 36lbs/hr but it still may be rich up top, or lean down low at idle.
THE PIN F14 IS WHERE YOU WILL WIRE IN YOUR 0-5VTS LINERIER OUTPUT FROM THE WIDE-BAND SENSOR TO THE ECM!!! Read the directions on the wide-band o2 kit for which wire it has for the linear 0-5vt output. You can also, on some wide-bands such as the one i have, wire in a simulated narrow band output 0-1vts to the stock narrow-band pin as well. Look at the pin out diagrams to see where the narrow band o2 pin is.
Also do THIS below and Look at gearhead efi for a pin out diagram under the 7730 ecm for gmobd1 forum to help you know where the f4 and 6 pins are on the ecm. Here is another pic to help with below. dont worrie its a v8... the 7730 ecm is all the same copy and past that addy below to view.
http://www.chevythunder.com/199092_f...227730_ecm.htm
For everyone wanting to use the $58/$59 code:
F6 -------------> F4 if using an auto. trans
So overall...........just drop the $58/59 code in the 730 ECM and swap F6--->F4 if using a 700R4.
So buddy all you do is swap the 2 wires. just cut them and re attatch them or unpin them if you really want.
Fasteddi
For some reason it wont let me upload adx and xdf files today??? So if anyone ever needs then just pm me.
Ok, attached are the adx, xdf, and bin files to start run and datalog and some helpful info.
First read though this power point any time you have a question. It helps immensely and is for code59 aka $59 mask which you will be running! Copy and paste if need to to view!
http://digware.webspaceforme.net/code59/101.ppt
I already told you but please don't go crazy with the boost at first. Slowly get into boost when you feel the car is ready, and keep a eye on the knock retard and AFRs. I know when its too much for my car, but I added knock retard attack rate to yours for added protection.....Fyi. That is how fast it retards timing when it sees knock. Its to protect your engine, but keep in mind a overly rich mix or stuff rattling will cause false knock and the sensor still thinks its knock. SO if you see any knock over 1 degree for any amount of time more then 1 second when getting into boost let off the gas instantly!
ALSO SET BASE TIMING TO 10* asap ON START UP or at least make sure its set there before you reconnect est wire!!! You can break it in there or just turn the dizzy to make it run for cam break in period of 10-15min at 2000-3000 varring rpm or what delta says on instructions. And just reconnect the est wire after the cam is broken it and make sure its at 10 degrees before top dead center before est wire is connected with a warm idle. This is the base timing that your tune thinks it has. 10 degrees BTDC
Also, free revving the engine or doing a burn out will almost always cause false knock so keep that in mind when data-logging.
This tune I am sending you is from a 13.08@104mph on 12psi of boost gt3582 and delta 260 cam. Its not the most fuel efficient tune but it will work for a good starter file. I took out a little more fuel then i had originally to make up for your stock heads, changed fueling from my 48lbs injectors to 36lbs/hr but it still may be rich up top, or lean down low at idle.
THE PIN F14 IS WHERE YOU WILL WIRE IN YOUR 0-5VTS LINERIER OUTPUT FROM THE WIDE-BAND SENSOR TO THE ECM!!! Read the directions on the wide-band o2 kit for which wire it has for the linear 0-5vt output. You can also, on some wide-bands such as the one i have, wire in a simulated narrow band output 0-1vts to the stock narrow-band pin as well. Look at the pin out diagrams to see where the narrow band o2 pin is.
Also do THIS below and Look at gearhead efi for a pin out diagram under the 7730 ecm for gmobd1 forum to help you know where the f4 and 6 pins are on the ecm. Here is another pic to help with below. dont worrie its a v8... the 7730 ecm is all the same copy and past that addy below to view.
http://www.chevythunder.com/199092_f...227730_ecm.htm
For everyone wanting to use the $58/$59 code:
F6 -------------> F4 if using an auto. trans
So overall...........just drop the $58/59 code in the 730 ECM and swap F6--->F4 if using a 700R4.
So buddy all you do is swap the 2 wires. just cut them and re attatch them or unpin them if you really want.
Fasteddi
For some reason it wont let me upload adx and xdf files today??? So if anyone ever needs then just pm me.
03-31-2016, 04:47 AM
#39
03-31-2016, 08:50 AM
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: 4.8l LS
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.23
Re: Turbo build guide By: Fasteddi
I'll be able to give some good insight on how the tune runs on my car in the next 2 weeks.
Stock heads/intake
Delta 260 cam
10 degrees btdc timing
3 inch downpipe dump behind fender (for now)
Mark has helped me along the way in every way possible, can't wait to finish up the car.
Stock heads/intake
Delta 260 cam
10 degrees btdc timing
3 inch downpipe dump behind fender (for now)
Mark has helped me along the way in every way possible, can't wait to finish up the car.
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