This probably should go in a different section...but I want to know about A/C in our v6

Does it put alot of work on the itsy bitsy v6 engine?

I have no clue why it didn't work before but it has been tried with R134a and it did blow cold but it all leaked out. I am guessing the o-rings are shot. The compressor line o-rings look flat as a pancake.

I am in the process of putting together my A/C system.

So far I have purchased:

New accumulator
New orifice tube
A/C Flush liquid
Reman. A/C Compressor (I know it's a shot in the dark with a reman. I think my original compressor is good, it blows out and has suction)
Ester oil
o-ring set (Factory air 26735) correct kit, idk?
New valve cores
and retrofit fittings

I am going to rent:

A/C vacuum pump
manifold gauge set

Any tips or anything? Should I purchase the dual fan set-up?
I'm not shooting for -30 here just anywhere between 35-45 degrees.

 

it wont put to much strian on the engine, and it disengages the comprssor if u go wot anyways. i wouldnt retrofit the system, freon makes for much colder air then the new crap.

what i would do is replace everything u are replacoing take it to a shop and have them pull a vacum on the system and inject some dye, if it dosent leake down u are good to go

then have it filled with freon

fasteddi is an hvac tech so he can help u out a bit if u have any issues im sure

 

Freon is crazy expensive compared to -134a, its not in any way worth it to stay with freon. Unless you reaaaally dont want to retrofit

 

you have no clue man, i just got the ac back in my car maybe a month ago and running down the road at about 45 mph its blowing out 20 degree air on a 70 degree day, the other day when it was around 85 i had white vapor crystals blowing out of my vents because the air was barely above the freezing point. this is with R12 btw.

 

of course its exspensive but it works 1000x times better then the retrofit crap.
but of course u wont mind it when its 105* out and ur in the car

 

I used freeze12 in mine and have been very happy. V6 car in texas, and it keeps up

 

My A/C works great when I recharge it... for about 4 days before the 134 leaks out. I have to find the leak

As for the Vacuum, if you have a decent compressor, I can vouch that this cheap little unit works excellent.

http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vac...ors-96677.html

It pulled excellent vacuum on my system the first time I recharged it.

Now if I can just find my leak, I'll be a happy camper again.

The 134 retrofit is fine, I used the cheapest 134 I could find (it was a high mileage with extra oil and sealant type) and I was blowing ~40 degrees @ full fan while it was 94 outside, so I have no complaints. As long as your system is in good shape, the 134 will work just fine. You need 40-44oz of 134 for a full charge.

 

I'm renting the pump that Autozone has. It pulls vacuum really well. I read that 40oz was the perfect amount of R134a. I am going with Ester oil because I have heard good things with it keeping the compressor happy and with any run ins with the old mineral oil.

I don't mind 40 degree temps. I am doing this A/C job (for fun, I like to tinker I guess) and because my girlfriend hates my hot *** car. lol.

 

I have r12 and it is icicle cold! I find it cheap on line and buy it. Just wondering if any one running r12 has compressor noise at all? Also i think it take from power to run Ac. But living in Az it is a must to have ac.

 

For some reason my power steering pump vibrates when I have the ac on and the engine is at idle. Have no idea why

 

i do, only at idle too, sounds like the clutch i think but im not sure. need to check the power steering pump!! thanks mark!!!!

 

Mine did too and this is a new pump. Then again my belt vibrates under load sometimes for no reason..I don't know.

 

I'm assuming it's the pump because it goes away when I turn the wheel side to side

 

Freon?? 134a, 12, 22, 410a..exc is all considered a "freon" cool juice. Its not that exspencive, unless its R22 which is way too exspencive at the moment due to the freaking EPA cutting back production. I got a good amount of R12 still (recycled R12)in a recovery tank if anyone wants to make a trip to ohio. I can charge up a system for ya.

 

tempting

by the way... a lot of people call r11, r 12, and r22 freon, but don't call 134A that, because its technical and trade name is Suva, NOT freon.

http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/...l#.UAalpmHy-So

many people use the names interchangeably, just like in certain parts of the country they call all carbonated sodas "coke"

 

Currently working on getting the A/C going again on the '92. Front shaft seal on the compressor leaks. Replacing it and the valve cores on the two ports.

For refrigerant am going with ES-12a (www.autorefrigerants.com/co00033.htm). Uses much less, is more efficient, and has dye in it.

Feeze-12 is good stuff too. But allegedly it is going away.

RBob.

 

lol iv thought about selling alittle bit of my r12 for alittle side cash aswell lol. I always thought I would get in trouble though

 

Yea I guess your right there. Im in the Hvac field and not a person calls 134a, Suva. I leaned to call it that in trades school, but have rarly heard it called that in the field. If someone says that its usually because there "green" aka new or hasent been in the field very long. Theres way too much to remember as is, when someone says thats not freon its suva. Have to keep in mind there are over 100's of blends that different manufacturers are makeing in the present time. We call it everything from "freezone"..LOLto "cool juice". Thats just the way some ppl talk in the hvac field.

We just call everything freon except NH3 which we mess with alot. In tech terms is, Ammonia R717. I work with big machinerly mainly as a apprentership.

 

Legally, you can only sell it if you have a EPA card and there are some other factors also. Same goes with buying the stuff in some cases where weight and such matter. 410a is a biggie for the EPA as its high pressure ref. I have a universal card but its manditory for where I work. If you do plan to sell it, don't tell anyone...lol and chances are the EPA police wouldn't know anyways

 

I put it all back together. I am unsure whether all the flushing solvent shot out of the evaporator and condenser. I shot compressed air in them for 2-3 minutes or more. I put it under vacuum yesterday for an hour, turned off the valves and then the pump and let it sit for 30 minutes. It was still at 30 Hg. I then continued to vacuum it down for another 3 hours and shut the valves and closed the hood and let it sit overnight. Went out this morning and it was at 0. I don't know if the lines or gauge set is leaking or if alot of moisture could cause this? I started the pump back up 20 minutes ago and mist began to shoot out the port for the first minute or so again, so I am guessing there is alot of moisture in the system?

I am going to run vacuum again, on and off all day today. I don't know how accurate this gauge set is anyway..strange it would hold for 30 minutes without moving but overnight disappear..

 

Of course the r-134a leaked out, your AC system isnt designed to use it! R134a molicules are much smaller than R12 molicules and it will leak out of all your fittings and gaskets that were designed for R12.

In other words, without getting the whole system retrofitted, you should just recharge with R12.

 

Mine is a retro fit from R-12 to R134A and is holding up well. go with what you can afford.

 

I didn't fill it with R134a yet...It is completely retrofitted. New green o-rings all around. The vacuum read zero after leaving the gauges hooked up with the yellow vacuum line disconnected..In 30 minutes it stood strong at below 30 Hg. I think the gauge set might just be the culprit..who knows. I will test the gauge set by itself tonight. I believe you just pull vacuum then close the valves and unscrew the vacuum line and see if it holds below 30 all night to test the gauge set..correct me someone if I'm wrong.

 

If you have access to a micon guage use that insted to see if it holds... the best way in my mind to pressure check a system is to jack it full of either dry nitrogen or REF and let it sit over night. Jack it to 100PSI and see if its the same the next day. If its not the same PSI then you better start looking for leaks with soap or any leak check stuff thats like soap, make sure the PSI is still up there and spray down every last joint looking for bubbles including anywhere where the tubes may of rubbed over time.
Then pull a vaccum on the system and hold to 500 microns if you have access to one. If not then pull to 30" of vac, and you can not leave the vac pump on too long really so dont be scared to leave the thing on for a good hour or 2. Then charge her up by weight, and if not by weight then by superheat as if im not mistaken your car system has a fixed orrifice or cap tbe of somesort. 10* of super heat is a good number to look for to make sure the comp doesnt flood durring extended operation or changeing conditions which happend all the time in Hvac.

 

OK guys back again, it has been holding vacuum for 2 days 30Hg. The gauge set was causing it to leak out because the connections don't fit snug on the fittings. I used zip ties to snug the fittings in and vacuumed it out for 6 hours, doing another 6 hopefully Friday. Then filling it up!

 

Cool, did you ever pressure check it. Positive pressure? Ive seen leaks that leak under positive pressure and not a vaccum, and also leaks that leak under a vaccum and not positive pressure...just a thought.

 

No, I don't have any equipment that could do such a thing I believe at least.

I'm taking a shot in the dark, I got R134a for free anyway.

 

Sounds leak free to me. I think shops only pull a vacuum for about 30 min. before charging. Let us know how it goes.

 

Well, I vacuumed it for an hour more today. I put in 3 cans of R134a and it blows pretty cold when driving. When idle it is not "ice cold," but whatcha gonna do. Is 3 cans enough? 36 ounces?

Another thing that I was wondering about is how my belt wobbles like a mad man from the alternator down to the crank pulley (new tensioner too, it tries to put tension on it but it flings back and fourth).

 

Did the cans have a guage on there for the pressure??? If so try to get the low side pressure between 30 - 35psi That should keep you cool. 35-40* coil temps which translate to about 45-50 degree supply air, which is about where you want it IMO for a long lasting compressor on 134a.

Undercharge will limit capasity badly and over charging will really stress your system on a hot day... Try to aim somewhere in there and dont be scared to let the low side pressure dip a little (26 or so) but there would be a chance that if you got the car cold enough and ran it for a long a$$ time that the coil could start to freeze up in time. Heres a TP chart use it for when charging if you want. You convert the pressure over to the temp, then you try to keep it as close to above freezing as possible just in case. You also have to remember that your taking your return air and cooling it so what the TP chart temp says will not be the supply temp you feel, generly add 10* to that number for the most part. 45 or so degree supply temps are good and your trying to dehumidifly anyways, thats what really cools the car not the temps, that why you see mass water coming out of under the car when that AC is working right. Thats just the humidity it took out of the air.

http://www.watco.com.mx/HTCPressureTemperatureChart.pdf

 

You may have overcharged the system. In '92 they took 2.25 lb's (36 ounces) of R12. For R134a it would be 32 ounces. Less R134a is used when charging an R12 system.

Look at the label on the A/C box under the hood. The charge weight will be on it. then adjust for using R134a.

IIRC, many folks also adjust the low pressure cut off switch when switching to R134a.

RBob.

 

Funny how people complain about R134a not being as cold as R12.

The problem is people don't realize that you need a larger condenser for R134a than you R12. A friend of mine who requires his cars to blow COLD (I still don't understand why people want to freeze in the summer and burn in the winter...) uses R134a in his cars, and the newest one is a '96, his oldest (that he drives) is a '71. Trust me, they blow WAY cold, using R134a. IIRC he said one of the '71 was blowing at 22* on a 85 or so degree day, using R134a.
The retrofit kits, replace the fittings and some O-rings, but not any of the other components that also need to be changed, like a valve (I can't recall the name right now), that causes issues with how cold the AC gets.
I know that some people when going to R134a "overfill" the system, according to weight, referencing the R12 system weight, but from what I understand you can't interchange the weights of the two gases, and R134a actually takes "more" by weight, than R12.

Don't blame the gas for an improperly retrofitted system.

 

LOL I did overcharge it...I was going by a guide on here. Mine has 2.25 lbs, so that would be around 28 ounces of R134a. I'll get that fixed.

I'm going to post a video on the belt problem, I will turn the A/C on, the throttle for a bit, then let off. Note: I have a new alternator, A/C compressor, and tensioner.

I dont know..

http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f3...t=DSCN8852.mp4

 

The video is not working for me.

 

Try this youtube link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObPap...ature=youtu.be

 

Your smog pump (A.I.R. system) delete was done incorrectly. Look for a '88 - '89 2.8l w/automatic f-body in the JY. There should be an idler pulley mounted on a spider-like looking bracket. This is located on the passenger side in place of the smog pump. Get it, the mounting bolts, and the belt. Install it and the belt flapping goes away.

RBob.

 

Huh? The car never had smog as far as I know. Do you have any pictures of this or does anyone?

So there isn't any other ways of stopping the rattling?...eh...why would they remove the smog pumps if the car needs it to function well?...wtf...I doubt I will be able to find it locally, I posted a thread in the parts wanted category see what happens. Think a smaller belt would make a difference?

 

I wouldn't worry about that, due to the timing of the firing events, the belt stretches ever so slightly every time a cylinder fires, causing that "jumping" you are seeing.

It is a bit long of a run to have no idler, but I've seen brand new factory vehicle's belts jump around just as much.

 

I don't know. It is noticeable under acceleration, quite loud and you can feel it.

If I bought the idler pulley does anyone know where it mounts, and what belt do I buy? W/AP and W/AC or W/AC and W/O AP?

 

I dont have a idler there either with my smog removed. I dont have any issues with it. I know I had a new belt the first time I didnt have the Air system. I spin up to 5800rpms with some power behind it so im not sure if you may have to adjust your tentioner or if the belt is just that loose? My belt goes from the alt all the way down to the crank, i know its a ways of space but seems ok IMO. At least in my car.

 

You have the A/C on when your driving it around or off?

OFF it is fine, A/C on it is vibrate city. Belt is like a year old or so, maybe if my belt was an inch shorter it would be alot tighter and cause less vibrations.

 

u dont need the idler pulley, some 2.8 cars have them others dont , my 89 had one i removed irt no problem. no 2.8 i know of ever came with a smog pump

 

I dont have a/c either. Hows the belt feel when you push pull on it, does the tentioner move? Im just guessing the reason that yours has the vibrations is bacause of the resistance he compressor adds when its engauged. Mabey a 1 inch shorter belt or adding a idler pulley is your answer to make the vibes go away.

 

From my understanding the '88 - '89 stick shift cars have the AIR system while the automatics do not. The idler bracket mounts to some bolts on the exhaust manifold and another on the front of the block (IIRC).

Then order a stock belt for an '89 2.8l engine with an automatic.

I'll get a picture later today and post it. You really do want the idler.

RBob.

 

A couple of pic's. There is a single rod going to an exhaust manifold bolt. Along with the bracket on the front of the engine. The bearing in the idler is an off the shelf part. Maybe the same as the front bearing on the SI series alternators.

Have a pic of the belt routing decal, but didn't see the need to post that.

I think I have another one around. Although a quick look-see didn't turn anything up. If interested I can do a better search for it. Will likely need a new bearing.

Make sure that the alternator and A/C compressor braces are in place. These are the ones that go rearward, to the plenum (A/C) and the head(exhaust? for the alternator). Otherwise the cast aluminum brackets will break.

RBob.

 

There is a bracket on the back of my A/C compressor. My Firebird had the bracket behind the alternator but this Camaro I purchased back in Feb doesn't have that bracket.

The bracket is twisted right? the left fork is in front of the rear fork on that bracket with the heater hose in between it? I wish it wasn't raining I'd go look around. If you can find one in good shape I'd buy it, if not I have seen another one around I would purchase.

As for the belt, like I said, it is either with A/C and with A/P:

Effective Length in Inches 96 3/4 Outside Length in Inches 97 1/2

or with A/C and w/o A/P:

Effective Length in Inches 93 Outside Length in Inches 93 3/4

I am guessing because of the idler pulley it is with both, but that pulley looks alot smaller than a smog pump pulley.

 

This is likely the correct belt:

or with A/C and w/o A/P:

I looked some more through a bunch of stuff for the idler and haven't found it. Although found a bunch of other stuff I had forgotten about. I do have another area to look, but it shouldn't be there, but then again who knows.

RBob.

 

Ok had to come back to edit my post. I bought an Idler Pulley set-up. RBob I found an old post about you feeding your cat...lol...belt number K060930 is what you posted. Sounds about right?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/2...belt-info.html

 

By the date on the post that would have been StirFry. During the Summer she won't come into the house, likes to stay outside. So I need to outside and get some food from the garage for her.

The K060930 belt sounds correct. It is 1.5" longer then the belt used without the idler.

RBob.

 

A cat named StirFry? That's awesome. Anyway, I ordered the idler and belt. I will update when I install it with a before after video lol.