v6 ICM questions
#1
Member
Thread Starter
v6 ICM questions
Is it possible to do away with the stock icm and install something like a MSD 6AL ignition control. I'm really getting tired of having to replace ignition modules.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tenino, Washington
Posts: 825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 89 f-bird and some others
Engine: 3.4
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: v6 ICM questions
I don't know, haven't really heard of this until now.
How often do they go bad?
I've gone through a few ICMs, and a year ago I added a ground straight to the firewall vs it's stock ground path.
I've also heard of adding a diode to a wire somewhere too to prevent a possible AC spike somehow getting to it.
How often do they go bad?
I've gone through a few ICMs, and a year ago I added a ground straight to the firewall vs it's stock ground path.
I've also heard of adding a diode to a wire somewhere too to prevent a possible AC spike somehow getting to it.
#3
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Leavittsburgh, OH
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 92 Camaro RS
Engine: 3.1L(191ci) V6
Transmission: 700-R4
Axle/Gears: 3.23:1
Re: v6 ICM questions
I haven't found too many places, including Summit Racing, that makes a "performance" replacement ICM to fit in your stock distributor.
I do know, that the stock V6 distributors are a "problem" item. They have two very big problems: the reluctor coil and the o-ring seal.
The reluctor coils are ceramic coated and crack, from heat. The o-rings deteriorate and cause oil to leak down the block onto your starter.
Excessive heat will fry your ICM, fast! The Autozone reman distributors are pricey, but come with high-quality OEM-replacement modules already installed and they have the heat-sink grease, plus a lifetime warranty. The design for the reluctor is better too. In the 2 1/2 years, since replacing my distributor, I have only replaced one ICM(warranty covered), and no oil has been leaking at all. I have not had to modify my electrical system at all.
As far as the ground? Well, I have heard you can do that, with older GM HEIs, but I have no exp or tried it, so you may need to try more research. I hope some of this helps.
I do know, that the stock V6 distributors are a "problem" item. They have two very big problems: the reluctor coil and the o-ring seal.
The reluctor coils are ceramic coated and crack, from heat. The o-rings deteriorate and cause oil to leak down the block onto your starter.
Excessive heat will fry your ICM, fast! The Autozone reman distributors are pricey, but come with high-quality OEM-replacement modules already installed and they have the heat-sink grease, plus a lifetime warranty. The design for the reluctor is better too. In the 2 1/2 years, since replacing my distributor, I have only replaced one ICM(warranty covered), and no oil has been leaking at all. I have not had to modify my electrical system at all.
As far as the ground? Well, I have heard you can do that, with older GM HEIs, but I have no exp or tried it, so you may need to try more research. I hope some of this helps.
#4
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 6,273
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes
on
18 Posts
Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: v6 ICM questions
It is very easy to add in a 6AL. I just did that 2 weekends ago and with the harness kit that you can get from summit or a place like that, any beginner can make it work in a few hours.
#5
Supreme Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: NWOhioToledoArea
Posts: 8,113
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 86-FireBird
Engine: -MPFI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Re: v6 ICM questions
go to radio shack for the better silver thermal paste, heat is what kills them.
clean the spot it sits with brake cleaner n scotchbrite pad though.
clean the spot it sits with brake cleaner n scotchbrite pad though.
#6
Member
Thread Starter
Re: v6 ICM questions
i go through one icm a year for the past 3 years, and always after i leave the house lol.the last icm was AC, got a clean mount surface, a new pick-up coil in the dizzy, and artic silver thermal paste. i even cleaned where the dizzy meets the block to improve ground.
my 91 has been down for almost 6 months now, cranks, stumbles, if it does start it spits sputters and backfires into the intake.it will not take fuel. fuel pressure is perfect, timing is ok, the only red flag right now is orange spark from the coil, which i know is weak. coil is new, along with new ground straps. coil harness is getting a solid 12v. i am leaning towards icm but i suppose a pcm is possible.
someone give me ideas and i'll get results asap.
fasteddi, which adapter are you talking about? can you get me a part#?
my 91 has been down for almost 6 months now, cranks, stumbles, if it does start it spits sputters and backfires into the intake.it will not take fuel. fuel pressure is perfect, timing is ok, the only red flag right now is orange spark from the coil, which i know is weak. coil is new, along with new ground straps. coil harness is getting a solid 12v. i am leaning towards icm but i suppose a pcm is possible.
someone give me ideas and i'll get results asap.
fasteddi, which adapter are you talking about? can you get me a part#?
#7
Supreme Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: NWOhioToledoArea
Posts: 8,113
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 86-FireBird
Engine: -MPFI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Re: v6 ICM questions
must be an electrical problem then, will suck if you fry a $200 box before checking everything you can, as ICM do not go bad like that with out a reason.
Trending Topics
#8
Member
Thread Starter
Re: v6 ICM questions
The last time the car laid down on me it was sudden. I was driving about 25mph and it just died, like someone shut off the key. It hasn't ran since. I don't think its an electrical issue because the harness is in very good condition, I've been all over the under-hood moving wires and probing and inspecting. Everything seems well. I'm thinking about going with the new distributor. At least that way the ICM is lifetime warranty.
#9
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 6,273
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes
on
18 Posts
Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: v6 ICM questions
How old is the ICM? Ittermittanly dieing like that then working again just sounds like the ICM is going again.
#10
Member
Thread Starter
Re: v6 ICM questions
Well, 6 months ago the ICM was about 5 months old, and this one was the AC icm with artic silver.
#11
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 6,273
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes
on
18 Posts
Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: v6 ICM questions
hmm. have it tested if all else fails. Id use the electropast from radio shack or something similer though. Its better IMO for the base of the IAC to dizzy. Basically second what gumby said a few post back
#12
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 6,273
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes
on
18 Posts
Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: v6 ICM questions
I had my adapter given too me with the 6AL. It was a used 6al so not much paper work with it. Google it or something and you will find the part number pretty quick.
#13
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 10,401
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: v6 ICM questions
6al still hooks up to the icm , if the icm is bad the 6a or 6al box will not work
#15
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 6,273
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes
on
18 Posts
Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: v6 ICM questions
I kept my IAC i just used some harnesses that plugged into my coil harnesses
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alamogordo, NM
Posts: 848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: '86 Grand National
Engine: LZ9????
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: v6 ICM questions
you can do what some ford guys do with the TFI, mount the ICM externally on a heat sink. ive done that and havent had a problem in 2 years, 40K miles.
#19
Member
Thread Starter
Re: v6 ICM questions
ordered the dizzy from zone today, $103 bucks. hoping this will cure the issue. i think the only remaining culprit would be the ecm. what are the typical symptoms of a faulty ecm?
#21
Member
Thread Starter
Re: v6 ICM questions
i have fuel, air, cranks but wont start. spark from the new coil is orange. grounds are good. iat, iac, tps, map, coil, cap, rotor, plugs and wires, o2 and cat are all new. Egr is blocked off but still plugged in. motor is still in correct time.
if i do get it to start and ¨run¨ it spits and sputters. giving it gas kills it and sometimes it pops in the intake.
#22
Moderator
iTrader: (2)
Re: v6 ICM questions
Orange indicates weak spark, so you have poor voltage supply, weak coil, weak ICM or poor gounding of the engine, and/or components attached to the engine.
I would do a test of powering the coil directly and checking the spark intensity that way to help eliminate the coil as a possibility. I'm sure if you Google it, you can find specifics on testing a coil by itself.
I have found that sometimes ICM tests are not accurate.
I would do a test of powering the coil directly and checking the spark intensity that way to help eliminate the coil as a possibility. I'm sure if you Google it, you can find specifics on testing a coil by itself.
I have found that sometimes ICM tests are not accurate.
#23
Member
Thread Starter
Re: v6 ICM questions
Orange indicates weak spark, so you have poor voltage supply, weak coil, weak ICM or poor gounding of the engine, and/or components attached to the engine.
I would do a test of powering the coil directly and checking the spark intensity that way to help eliminate the coil as a possibility. I'm sure if you Google it, you can find specifics on testing a coil by itself.
I have found that sometimes ICM tests are not accurate.
I would do a test of powering the coil directly and checking the spark intensity that way to help eliminate the coil as a possibility. I'm sure if you Google it, you can find specifics on testing a coil by itself.
I have found that sometimes ICM tests are not accurate.
i used to work at advance auto (now currently lead tech at sears auto) and i see a lot of icms that test good but are bad. thats why i'm hoping that the new dizzy will clear this up. it will be in on wednesday evening or thursday morning. i'll update then. also i'll pull up the schematics from alldata for the coil and icm and do a run down of voltage, resistance, and continuity.
#24
Member
Thread Starter
Re: v6 ICM questions
UPDATE:
Replaced dizzy. Solved the orange spark issue. I now get a good hot white spark. The new issue is that the car still will not spark. I shot ether into the intake and it fires up and runs right until the ether is burnt up. The fuel pump runs, the filter is new and I have satisfactory fuel pressure (about 42psi KOEO). However the gas smells a little stale (at half tank about 6 months with no stabilizer) and the exhaust fumes smell off. I'm hoping fresh fuel will cure the issue. Is there anything else I shoud look over?
Replaced dizzy. Solved the orange spark issue. I now get a good hot white spark. The new issue is that the car still will not spark. I shot ether into the intake and it fires up and runs right until the ether is burnt up. The fuel pump runs, the filter is new and I have satisfactory fuel pressure (about 42psi KOEO). However the gas smells a little stale (at half tank about 6 months with no stabilizer) and the exhaust fumes smell off. I'm hoping fresh fuel will cure the issue. Is there anything else I shoud look over?
#25
Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 1987 Chevrolet Camaro
Engine: 2.8L V6 MPFI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 10 Bolt
Re: v6 ICM questions
I hate our ICMs. I just replaced mine last summer and again this winter. This time, I put some arctic silver thermal compound on the replacement. I also replaced the harness connectors because the clips were broken and installed a MSD coil and taylor wires.
#26
Supreme Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: NWOhioToledoArea
Posts: 8,113
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 86-FireBird
Engine: -MPFI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Re: v6 ICM questions
gotta find out if the injectors are firing, fuel in the rail doesn't mean it makes it to the cylinders.
#27
Member
Thread Starter
Re: v6 ICM questions
UPDATE:
Replaced dizzy. Solved the orange spark issue. I now get a good hot white spark. The new issue is that the car still will not spark. I shot ether into the intake and it fires up and runs right until the ether is burnt up. The fuel pump runs, the filter is new and I have satisfactory fuel pressure (about 42psi KOEO). However the gas smells a little stale (at half tank about 6 months with no stabilizer) and the exhaust fumes smell off. I'm hoping fresh fuel will cure the issue. Is there anything else I shoud look over?
Replaced dizzy. Solved the orange spark issue. I now get a good hot white spark. The new issue is that the car still will not spark. I shot ether into the intake and it fires up and runs right until the ether is burnt up. The fuel pump runs, the filter is new and I have satisfactory fuel pressure (about 42psi KOEO). However the gas smells a little stale (at half tank about 6 months with no stabilizer) and the exhaust fumes smell off. I'm hoping fresh fuel will cure the issue. Is there anything else I shoud look over?
Our injectors fire in batches right? I figure if I could smell "fuel" from the exhaust, all-be-it bad fuel, at least it is getting into the cylinder. Is there an easy way to check injector pulse without pulling the intake apart?
#28
Supreme Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: NWOhioToledoArea
Posts: 8,113
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 86-FireBird
Engine: -MPFI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Re: v6 ICM questions
no idea but fuel doesn't go bad that quick, take well over a yr, you could easily drain it by removing the hose under the hood and letthe pump run till about 1/8 a tank then stop.
sounds like its not getting fuel though
sounds like its not getting fuel though
#29
Member
Thread Starter
Re: v6 ICM questions
Would the FPR stop me from getting fuel? OR if the FPR was at fault would that mean it would dump fuel? Either way if the FPR was at fault my fuel pressure gauge should read it. The fuel pressure fluctuates a little when I crank it so the fuel is going somewhere. The gas I sprayed from the test port smells terrible though. Also I replaced the TPS, IAC, and MAP. I was wondering what all was necessary to adjust when I do get it running. I figure Idle Relearn is in order. I miss my f-body. This damn Ford Escape makes me feel like an old man.
#30
Member
Thread Starter
Re: v6 ICM questions
***update***
Retested fuel pressure at 42.5psi, KOEO. Still no improvement and car is still not running. Not sure where to turn next. Vacuum line to FPR is dry and fuel free. Shooting Ether into the throttle body will let the car run. Someone point me down next road?
Retested fuel pressure at 42.5psi, KOEO. Still no improvement and car is still not running. Not sure where to turn next. Vacuum line to FPR is dry and fuel free. Shooting Ether into the throttle body will let the car run. Someone point me down next road?
#31
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 1992 Firebird
Engine: 3.1L
Transmission: Manual T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: v6 ICM questions
It could be FPR or bad injectors. OEM injectors are notorious for premature failure. My FPR went bad at 140 K miles and the injectors were also starting to fail.
#32
Member
Thread Starter
Re: v6 ICM questions
I'm at 206k on stock fpr and injectors. How likely is it to lose an entire set of injectors? I'll try checking fuel pressure while pulling vacuum on the fpr. thanks!
#33
Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sheffield, United Kingdom
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Car: 91 Firebird
Engine: 3.1L 191ci
Transmission: 700R4
Re: v6 ICM questions
Sorry not read this thread totally but have you tried the resistance test on the injectors?
From what I can remember you probe the injectors and any reading between 17 and 20ohms is good, anything less is a bad injector. I remember doing mine a while back and they showed 13ohms. I was advised to get in touch with South beach injectors?? Can't remember if that was their name (can find out) Anyway, they sent me FORD injectors and said don't worry they're better than the stock ones and hey presto they worked!
I'd say if you got good spark from the coil, good timing, and spark from the plugs i'd be doing that test on the injectors.
Oh, and the old fuel thing I wouldn't worry about as I've just pulled an old 92 Mazda out of storage that I've had laid up since October 2002 and it started and run fine on that!
Speed.
#34
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Southern Arizona, US of A baby
Posts: 32
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 2 camaros, 1992 v6 /1984 350
Engine: 350 with holly carb swap to sniper
Transmission: Both are auto 700r4 both 1992
Axle/Gears: unknown
Re: v6 ICM questions
Now i have an ICM problem
#35
Sponsor
iTrader: (92)
Re: v6 ICM questions
I know this is SUPPER old but for the future lol if 1 injector shorts, or goes bad or stops firing for any reason, with in a couple starts the computer will pickup on it and shut them all down for safty i guess. This happens to me, 1 injector went bad. tryed to start a few times sputtering, computer cough on and shut em all down. a fresh set later from summit and i was on the road again..
Now i have an ICM problem
Now i have an ICM problem
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post