I have an E2SE carb on a 1984 Camaro, 2.8l engine. This vehicle has been a headache since purchased, starting out as a giant hack-job from the person I bought it from. Over summer, it ran fine. West Virginia mountains meets winter however, and a treasure trove of problems arise. Among them, trouble starting.

I studied the mechanical function of the carburetor and specifically the choke functions, deducing that in order for an engine to start in below freezing weather, the gas supply must be high, since gas does not evaporate well in lower temperatures and thus cannot be ignited as efficiently. With this in mind, I inspected my carb and choke, only to discover a discouraging dilemma. The choke did not close fully when the gas pedal was depressed, the fast idle cam did not function well, and the choke basically flopped about during operation. One linkage was missing, the choke spring coil looked as if a hammer had been used to open it once, and generally all parts gave the image as if they were attempting to operate properly, but could not for various reasons. I theorize that due to the age and lack of proper care for the vehicle, that many of the devices operated by the vacuum hoses have deteriorated, or became damaged due to abuse from previous owners. Regardless, the choke no longer operates as it should.

As a result, my engine will attempt to turn over at start up, fire maybe once or twice, but otherwise fail to turn over and fire without support from the starter. Consequently, I am slowly murdering my battery, which I have already replaced once due to the same effects. After speaking with my brother, who works at Advance Auto as an assistant manager (as well as being a college machinist/general jeep motorhead) he recommended I convert the devices that operate the choke into a manual setup, and use a manual choke cable to actuate the choke lever. I purchased a cable intended for Edelbrock carburetors, since eventually I plan to add one to this vehicle.

After running it through the dash board and out to the engine, I have it securely mounted and attached to the lever which is operated by the old choke spring. At this point, I can manually pull the choke shut and start the vehicle as normal, but when I go to open the choke once the engine has reached a decent operating temperature, the cable seems to resist being actuated, as if held in place. I theorize that this is due to the fact that I have yet to remove any of the old mechanical parts, all levers and linkages are still intact. As of right now, the closest approximation to what I have is a semi-automatic choke. While this sounds exotic and interesting, its proving to be an operable disaster, as the engine is now prone to flooding instead of not getting enough fuel, and I am back to square one, slowly murdering my battery and spending 5+ minutes getting my engine to fire and operate on its own.

At this point, I am searching for methods to remedy this. My current assumption is that if I remove the old linkages and mechanisms, I can convert the carburetor into a totally manual choke carb, which would be ideal at this moment, since money is no longer something I have an excess of. I have to fix this with a budget of $30 total that I can use on it.

I will post pictures of the current state of the project and indicate planned removals/modifications, looking for advice from other forum users on where to go from here. I have reached a dead end on my engineering limits for the time being, so I appreciate all input.

I hope that this thread can become an educational thread detailing what to do, and more importantly what not to do, when this type of problem surfaces.



Current Situation




Current Situation Front View




Theorized Modifications, Numbered so that any response can specific reference each piece and why it should/should not be removed

 

After some careful reading and consideration, I have come to the conclusion that I needed more understanding of the external parts than what I had. After getting my hands on the manual for my carb, I was able to compare images to come to this conclusion. Some parts should definitely stay, while others can easily be removed to still achieve a working manual EE2SE carb. Below are the pictures I have used for referencing, and the current situation I have.






From what I can tell, since I will be manually controlling the choke valve, I don't see a need for either vacuum break, or the linkages attached to them. The idle speed solenoid should definitely stay. Once the fuel pump is replaced, I plan to test and see if the secondary air valve is working or not, so that I can determine whether or not I will need to rig it as well. I hope not, because I am reaching a limit on creativity here. I have debated whether or not I should just replace all the breaks and the solenoids, or just replace the entire carburetor, and discovered that prices for such would be beyond my budget. I have also looked at simply rebuilding the carb and hoping for the best, also beyond my budget (although just barely.)

For now, I plan to spend the next few days trying to come up with ways to make this work manually without the use of so many vacuum lines, linkages, and vacuum breaks, because I see it as severely inneficient and generally just in my way. I already removed the AIR system and the A/C system for the same reasons. Hopefully someone out there has some advice for me???


EDIT: I do plan on changing the side the choke cable comes in on (Although I do like my drill hole I put in it, It will work better this way) To the side with the busted coil spring, so that it operates a bit easier, as long as this would work out better. I may leave it where it is.

 

I can't see your pics but I know that carb is basicaly just a Qjet cut in half but with better fuel metering.


I do that with my Qjets, full manual choke, side linkage is wired to not function, hate fast idle cam that locks the choke when cold.

 

I appreciate the images! It is good to know someone else out there has domr something similar to what I want to do, kinda settles my mind at ease and lets me know I am not just a little off my rocker. Those images will definitely help give me an idea of what to do now, and once I make some progress I will post a few of my own as well.

 

I do have to put a slice into the base of the air cleaner lid, two pieces of ruber over lap so when slid on, it seals up. with both a stock n drop base lid.

 

After doing some work on my vehicle, I have both air breaks removed and the fast idle cam removed, along with all linkages. With this setup, the secondary air valve is no longer operated by a linkage. I am going to refer to the manual and see what I can glean from it, so that once I have it figured out, I will be able to configure a rigging of sorts out of the old linkages and levers. I'm surprised that this will work!

 

I figured out how to get the secondary valve to work I think. I plan to attach it via a linkage to the throttle lever itself, so once the throttle lever is pulled so far, it will begin to engage the secondary linkage and thus open the secondary valbe and fuel metering system. Hopefully this will wake this car up finally.

 

you can snap the big back bore open as fast as you want, wit hthe meterting attached to it, you get proper fuel at any position. one of the improvements he made on that design.

 

I will have to wait until I put the fuel pump back on, i discovered a leak out of the sides of it while I was working and had to order a new one. It comes in tomorrow, so the real tweaking begins once its back on. Thanks a ton Gumby for your help so far. If I could ask, how exactly does the secondary air valve open when the vehicle is in operation? I removed the link attached to the primary air break because it seemed to "pull" instead of "pushing" on the valve lever that the link attached to. I felt it would hinder operation, but now I do not see how the secondary air valve actually would open. Is it opened by vacuum inside the carb or by another means? I tried flexing the throttle lever to simulate stomping on the gas pedal, but the secondary air valve does not move. The vehicle is off due to the missing pump, so does that make a difference in how it would operate? I feel this is a dumb question, but at the same time I do not fully understand the operations of the carb when the vehicle is in operation, so all of my theorizing and testing has been done with the vehicle off..

I have this image from my repair manual, it explains that a pin or something from the primary actuates the secondary when necessary. It also shows a picture of the inner workings, but I couldn't figure it out, it was too... plain.

 

Fuel pump replaced, and it runs great so far! haven't taken it off the jacks yet because something is baffling me completely; the back valve flap (secondary air valve) doesn't seem to have any effect on the engine whatsoever when idle. I push it back, no change in rpm, I can push it back and flex the throttle, no change in regular, its like it doesn't do anything. What's going on??? i'm totally lost right now!

 

85 S15

 

So the air flap is operated by that linkage attached to the air break.. I will just hold it open with a spring since the intske valve down inside doesnt open until the gas is opened so far. I redid all the vacuum lines and the only thing now is it doesn't want to start without a jump, its fine once I jump it. I think either the battery's cca is too low or my starter is dying. Carb is working great though, as long as I am manually controlling everything. Itll sputter from time to time but it has a massive improvement

 

Two weeks of tinkering and redoing all the vacuum lines and it works nearly perfect. At first, I had trouble opening the throttle fully, because the engine would bog down and stall. Yesterday I became a little ticked, and just floored it from nothing. it bogged for a second and then cut loose! It was like the car came alive again. I'm not sure exactly why it happened, it just started working right.

I eliminated the vacuum lines that ran to the air breaks and the fast idle solenoid, capping the line holes on the carb itself. Hooking a manual choke to the choke lever, I now control the choke and the fast idle by the cable. It doesn't need to be left closed for long; start up and warm up are drastically reduced, to as little as 10 seconds in 10-32 degree weather. All emissions control systems relative to my state (West Virginia) are still intact and fully operable, which is a major plus, and the secondary air flap just remains closed. I plan to remedy that in the future, but for now, I let it sit closed. It has enough space to let some air in, which makes the secondary fuel valve system not completely useless, and yet it runs better than before when all the parts operating it and the choke by vacuum/electricity were in place. I feel as if mission is accomplished! almost... still need to get that second valve working to full potential! I will post pictures of the final results later tonight.

 

Very informative thread! Thanks!