Grizz87

I have a 1989 2.8 Firebird that is giving me some issues. Wasn't wanting to idle correctly after a shop touched it from previous owner. Got the timing fixed on it except the issue is that when it is cold it will not start for anything. When it is warmer out (75+ degrees) it starts no problem and idles perfectly. Anyone got a clue on what the issue could be? I was thinking a cold start injector but after looking around it seems the 89 doesn't have one.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Yep , the 1989 2.8 most certainly does have a CSI , as per this handy wiring diagram . look at the top left of the drawing , just under the distributor . Start your diagnosis at the Crank fuse , it should have +12V on both sides with the ignition key in the start position .

Grizz87

it does? So many people have said it didn't have one. I looked on Google to see what one looked like but I can't find a picture of it and I have no clue how to replace it. All fuses are good. Just replaced them all lol

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

In 1990 when the 3.1 replaced the 2.8 the CSI was eliminated , all 2.8 MPFI engines have the CSI . The CSI itself is mounted to the back of the lower intake manifold just in front of the distributor , which makes it just about impossible to see with the upper manifolds assembled (2.8 MPFI has a 3 piece intake manifold) .

Before replacing it , the "CSI switch" should be checked , as well as checking whether or not the circuit IS actually getting power when it's supposed to . The switch is one of the two "sending unit" looking devices threaded into the lower intake manifold on the front , driver's side , and is the larger of the two units (the smaller one if for the ECM to know the coolant temp) .

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Ok , in this picture the white metal tubing screwed into the fuel distribution block that leads toward the back (looks like it's running under the distributor) is running to the CSI which you can't see under the manifold . In the lower left of the picture you can see the two sending unit looking devices , the larger one controls the CSI ...

Mark RWC

Thought 88 was the last year V6 2.8 used a cold start injector. I have an an 88 with cold start injector. Seem to remember looking at friends 89 V6 and did not see a cold start. The plenum was installed so maybe it was not easy to see.

If the V6 has cold start system the cold start switch is next the CTS sensor near the thermostat.

Grizz87

that's what I thought too. I'm changing out the FPR tomorrow and I'll look around. I've looked online but no one has the CSI anyone got a link to one or a part number?

Mark RWC

Injector and cold start switch are probably no longer made. Junkyard or Ebay may be best options. The cold start injector is a pain to get out if you have one on your car.The threads on the fuel rail are made of aluminum so use caution.
Just Checked GMPartsDirect for availability = not available 1988 V6 SEE BELOW
No Image Available






Cold Start Module - GM (17110860)

Grizz87

not seeing any on eBay or anything in the junkyard except for 305s and 350s. What options do I have left to get it to start in below 90 weather?

Mark RWC

If your problem is not enough fuel, starter spray is a fix until you can investigate further. If it starts up with spray it is likely a fuel problem.

Mark RWC

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Yep , that's it allright , and as you've now found out it's just this side of unobtainum . Also , now that we have it cleared up that the 1989 2.8 does indeed have the CSI (my schematic I posted in post #2 is the wiring diagram for 1989 , and since the CSI is in that 1989 diagram , it stands to reason that it is present on your 1989 as well as it is on my 1989 pictured in post #5) you still haven't done the diagnosis required to say for certain that it's the CSI that's defective . Only a volt/ohm meter , used correctly , can tell you whether your issue is with the CSI itself , the CSI switch , or the key supplied +12V that's supposed to trigger the CSI , and just replacing the CSI without the diagnosis only has about a 1 in 3 chance of curing the issue .

Grizz87

the relays I had ordered will be in tomorrow. when I get back i will be checking what you mentioned. is the CSI Switch the intake air temp sensor?

Mark RWC

Expand the image and look at the bottom left of the image. There are two sensors that screw into the engine without the wiring connectors attached. The sensor that is more oval shaped is the Coolant Temperature Sensor. The sensor with the rectangular shape is the Cold Start Switch or sensor. Both sensors use the cooling system fluid to monitor the engine temperature. Others have warned about being extremely careful of the oring when removing the cold start injector next to the distributor. Oring like cold start injector is probably no longer made.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Tell me something , ARE either of you actually READING my posts ?

I'm not sure what relays you've ordered , but I promise you that there are NO relays in your CSI circuit whatsoever , and so if relays are supposed to "fix" the cold start issue it ain't gonna happen . And yes , I have already identified the cold start injector switch , it's the larger of the two "sending unit looking devices" screwed into the front left side of the lower intake manifold just as I said it was in post #5 . Now , all this talk of CSI O rings and such is a MOOT POINT till you do the actual troubleshooting required to indicate whether or not the CSI is actually bad ! Aren't you gonna feel like a complete azz if you go to ALL the work required to replace the CSI , if you ever do find a good one to replace it with , and have the problem still be there ? Yes indeed , and this is the LAST time I'm gonna say this ;

IT"S JUST AS LIKELY TO BE THE SWITCH OR WIRING AS IT IS TO BE THE INJECTOR THAT"S AT FAULT HERE !!!!!

But if you want to waste your time & money replacing parts till it runs right by all means have at it , and I will end my participation of trying to help you in this thread .

Good luck ........

W.E.G.

I'm reading your posts.

This stuff is highly relevant to my present projects.

Please keep posting, even if the O.P. seems to be not.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The csi looks to be the same as 85-88 tpi 5.0 & 5.7l.
You could look in the classifieds section or post a wanted ad.
This flow chart might help.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...atic-only.html

Grizz87

Relays were not for the CSI. I said that they would be coming in today (which they didnt) and when I go to install them I was going to check on the CSI. Also I know what the part is called but what I am saying is that I cannot find the switch listed ANYWHERE. I did not say anything about orings either nor did you really have to come off as hostile in the post. Like I said, i was going to look at it when I go to install my relays that have NOTHING to do with the CSI and I never said that they had anything to do with the CSI.

Grizz87

from what I have seen its the same CSI rather its a V8 or a V6 so ill be looking there after I inspect it to make sure its not a wire issue. Thank you

Grizz87

I also picked up a new coolant sensor as well as a intake temp sensor but I did not see a listing for the Cold Start Switch/Sensor

Grizz87

Whenever I get the chance to take the Plenum off I will snap a picture and post it here. Might be a few days due to weather and work though.

Grizz87

I was able to open it up a little the cold start injector is there.

Mark RWC

Your photo show the cold start switch so the 89 V6 does have cold start. I was confused it looks like the V8 only used this until 1988. There is a kit available to delete the cold start on the V8 years 85-88. This probably confused me about your 89 not having cold start.
The link Tuned Performance provided is the Factory Service Manual trouble shooting flow chart. This will get you started in the right direction.If you do not have the Factory Service Manual it is available on CD for around $30 plus shipping. It will pay for itself many times over.

Grizz87

I have the FSM somewhere lol. I got the original part nunber for the Cold start . Looks like it's the same part for a lot of th v8 engines. Gonna hit the yard up shortly and see what I can find.

Mark RWC

Grizz87

yeah I seen that this morning. Planing to hit the yard next week and see what I come up with if not I'll be riding that one lol

Grizz87

I should be picking up the Cold Start Switch here shortly. In case anyone was having this issue as well here are the vehicles that the part is on. Same part for the V6, V8 (305 and 350) and the L4

1985 Buick Skylark L4-151ci 2.5L TBI,V6-173ci 2.8L 2BBL,V6-173ci 2.8L MFI
1986-1985 Cadillac Cimarron L4-122ci 2.0L TBI,V6-173ci 2.8L MFI
1989-1985 Chevrolet Camaro V6-173ci 2.8L MFI,V8-305ci 5.0L MFI
1989-1987 Chevrolet Camaro V8-350ci 5.7L MFI
1989-1988,1986-1985 Chevrolet Camaro V6-173ci 2.8L MFI,V8-305ci 5.0L MFI
1989-1988 Chevrolet Camaro V8-305ci 5.0L TBI
1989-1988 Chevrolet Camaro V8-305ci 5.0L TBI,V8-350ci 5.7L MFI
1987-1985 Chevrolet Camaro V8-305ci 5.0L 4BBL
1986-1985 Chevrolet Camaro L4-151ci 2.5L TBI,V8-305ci 5.0L 4BBL
1986-1985 Chevrolet Camaro,Celebrity L4-151ci 2.5L TBI
1986-1985 Chevrolet Cavalier L4-122ci 2.0L TBI
1986-1985 Chevrolet Cavalier,Celebrity V6-173ci 2.8L MFI
1986-1985 Chevrolet Celebrity V6-173ci 2.8L 2BBL
1985 Chevrolet Celebrity V6-260ci 4.3L MFI
1985 Chevrolet Citation II L4-151ci 2.5L TBI,V6-173ci 2.8L 2BBL,V6-173ci 2.8L MFI
1988-1985 Chevrolet Corvette V8-350ci 5.7L MFI
1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera L4-151ci 2.5L TBI,V6-173ci 2.8L 2BBL,V6-173ci 2.8L MFI,V6-231ci 3.8L MFI
1986-1985 Oldsmobile Firenza L4-112ci 1.8L TBI,L4-122ci 2.0L TBI,V6-173ci 2.8L MFI
1985 Oldsmobile Firenza L4-112ci 1.8L TBI,L4-122ci 2.0L TBI,V6-173ci 2.8L MFI
1986-1985 Pontiac 6000 V6-173ci 2.8L 2BBL,V6-173ci 2.8L MFI
1985 Pontiac 6000 V6-260ci 4.3L MFI
1986-1985 Pontiac 6000,Firebird L4-151ci 2.5L TBI
1988-1985 Pontiac Fiero L4-151ci 2.5L TBI,V6-173ci 2.8L MFI
1989-1985 Pontiac Firebird V6-173ci 2.8L MFI,V8-305ci 5.0L MFI
1989-1987 Pontiac Firebird V8-350ci 5.7L MFI
1989-1988,1986-1985 Pontiac Firebird V6-173ci 2.8L MFI,V8-305ci 5.0L MFI
1989-1988 Pontiac Firebird V8-305ci 5.0L TBI
1989-1988 Pontiac Firebird V8-305ci 5.0L TBI,V8-350ci 5.7L MFI
1989 Pontiac Firebird V6-231ci 3.8L MFI
1987-1985 Pontiac Firebird V8-305ci 5.0L 4BBL
1986-1985 Pontiac Firebird L4-151ci 2.5L TBI,V8-305ci 5.0L 4BBL

Grizz87

Replace the switch and sensor as well as new R45TS plugs and she started right up. Thank you all for the help!

Mark RWC

Good to hear your cold start issue is fixed. The compatible vehicle list for the Cold Start Switch will be helpful to others in the future. Did you find the cold start switch at a junkyard? What did your old plugs look like ?

Grizz87

Ended up pulling on off a vette at the yard. My original plugs was the 43ts and they was pitch black when pulling out