Hey everyone - new member here...

Back in August I was on vacation @ my dads in CA (like you needed to know that ) - and I picked up a good deal on a 91 firebird..

It's a 91 with 140k miles, blown motor which is a 2.8L. The body, undercarraige and interior are totally show room condition (amazing for the mileage), and I got the car for around 1300.

So now the question is - whats exact path do I got to rebuild the motor. I already have my wickedly quick hot-rod - but I want this firechicken to haul for a little 6 banger. Plus, my dad (who is 2,000 miles away from me) has the lucky job of rebuilding the motor for me so I can fly out there and pick up the car - so I don't want to put him thru a v8 conversion (I mean I do, but can't).

ok, enough with the babbling..

I'm told I can bore and stroke this motor safely and reliably to a 3.4L?? I know 3.1L is no problem. And with a decent cam and some head porting I'm told this motor can get to the 200hp mark, is that accurate? (I'm assuming I'll need the chip and exhaust to match everything of course - but that's stuff I can do when the car gets back here in chicago). Give me some pointers please.. this is my 1st 3rd gen that I plan on using - I've already had 3 2nd gens - and boy I kinda miss em, but just sick of the damn frame rot in them things!!!

If you like looking at pics - here it is. umm, if you don't like looking at pics, close your eyes

 

I can't help you with rebuilding your engine but I can tell you that you have a 3.1 liter. They stopped making the 2.8 in 1989 I think? Anyways, nice car. I like them birds!

 

Where in CA?
Southern?
Put him in touch with me.
I'll get ya a running 3.4 & you can ask me how to put it in.
Better.
Do a search for this topic.
2.8 - 3.4 Swap boogie.
I wrote it.
I did it.
I can get ya all the 3.4 motors ya want.
The guy is in Los Angeles.
I paid $800 for my 3.4 w/40K.
Stop dreaming & start searching.
ALl ya need to plan on IS also rebuilding every thing on the car, electric fuel injection
Ignition, stuff like that (foundation items)
AND PLAN ON A NEW TRANNY.
Every person that has done this swap blows their tranny. Including ME!
Even the only one whom has done a swap w/5-speed. He blew his clutch.
The engine puts out so much power (165-170HP & 200 Foot Pounds of torque) it makes the old tranny history.
So far, 19 or 20 3.4 swappers, by now. I've lost count.
It is the wisest, most cost effective solution to a blown 60* engine.
NO do not think of boring & anything. You can't touch building a good running engine for $800.
Read the thread, read again then ask questions.
Happy to offer advice.
Yes, I passed CA smog, easy & legally!

 

Well, I don't mind spending some money - I'm not cheap I was figuring a quality rebuild on the motor might cost 700-900 bucks (and that's to pay the old man for a little head porting)...

The car is in the Johnson Valley/Landers area.

And I got a 3.1L really? I could have sworn it was a 2.8.

I thought the 3.4 was just a stroked 3.1L motor? If that's the case, then that means I don't technically need to replace the tranny. I am planning on having the tranyn rebuilt - afterall, it does have 140k miles and I'd hate to break down driving back to Chicago, say in Wyoming!

I couldn't find that conversion doc anywhere - got a link I can check out?

I'm not opposed to do anything drastic or involving money, my only goal is to make this painless on my dad... Cuz if I complicate things, then he'll take forever, and I'll end up trucking the car back home and going nuts - cuz I can't take the car outta the stable until spring time :-/

"(165-170HP & 200 Foot Pounds of torque) " - Whats it take to get a little more hp out this motor? Is that a stock cam putting out those numbers? It would be nice to get it around 200hp, but I'm not THAT pickey.

And lastly - I'm not too worried about emissions, IL laws are way easier than CA... Out here they don't care much about engine transplants - just as long as it passes. And a well tuned 3.4 should run as efficient as a 2.8 or 3.1.

 

I am absolutely POSITIVE that you have a 3.1. Unless someone put a 2.8 in there you have a 3.1. And yes, those are stock numbers for the 3.4 that ked85 gave you. There is a lot you can do to that motor to bring up the horses! There are quite a few guys with 3.4's in the newer camaros that are running good numbers at the track at camaroz28.com in the v6 section. They can give you many ideas on what to do to get the best out of your car, as can just about anybody on this site. People here know there stuff, trust me!

 

I'm glad I stopped by, let me tell you. Someone from MFBA pushed me over here - I've been wondering I havent' gotten any answers from them (I guess they are the snooty LS1 crowd??)

I must have been wrong on the engine, I checked the tech data and you are right. Now I wonder why thge hell I thought it was a 2.8 this whole time - no wonder why people weren't giving me any answers - they thought I was jsut nuts, stoned, or flat out lying

Now, let me get one more thing straight.. The 3.4 and my 3.1 block are the same right? Again, I thought the difference is just that the 3.4 is a stroked 3.1? I really wnat to try to keep the wiring if at all possible - I don't minding upgrading stuff in the future when I get the car back home,

 

2.8 or 3.1? pop the hood & look @ the upper plenum, 2.8 willhave a circle badge syaing 2.8 FI.

 

ok, it is a 3.1L confirmed, I just called the dad up. I haven't seen the car since I bought it in August, and it's > 2,000 miles away from me - but a quick call got me a quick answer (wow, only if life was always taht easy!!)

 

I don't think the 3.1 and the 3.4 share the same block. But as far as wiring and all that stuff goes, you can use EVERYTHING! You should read ked85's how to do a 3.4 swap boogie or something like that. I will try to find it for you!

 

Personally I would:

Forged pistons
Crane 2030 Cam
40 over bore
Fast Chip
1.52 Roller Tip Rockers
Double roller Chain
port/polish heads more work on exhaust side


with the port you should be 3.3liter

 

I can't find it sorry! I don't think they have it on this site anymore. It says http error or something like that. The man you HAVE to talk to is ked85. Sorry I couldn't help. :lala:

 

I heard the same thing elevario did; there's not enough room in the 3.1 block to punch it out to 3.4. Congrats on the buy!

If you want pics of a similar swap, you could check out my page. I have a friend who had an 89 Camaro 2.8; he cracked the oil pan and didn't know it; so he was driving without oil - when the oil light came on, the motor was dead. So we swapped an '86 2.8 into it. Check out the page at http://www.geocities.com/tomp_3rdgen .

Oh- I was working out rebuild prices a while ago, without machine shop costs added in yet; the cost jumped up pretty quickly. You've got a good estimate there- with cast pistons involved. Forged pistons add another $300 (sick, right?) to the pricetag. You might not want to buy a "master" rebuild kit- those usually come with the stock camshaft. Get a bearing kit, piston kit, and gasket kit, and use your own cam/lifters; and if you're that much into the work, get new lifters & pushrods too. Buy new head bolts. You probably want new nuts for the connecting rods- have the old connecting rods magnafluxed to check for cracks. (Also, have the whole block magnafluxed & hot-tanked & new cam-bearings (destroyed thru a hot-tank), and get the heads magnafluxed too.)

I found the 3.4 swap boogie message- it's at https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=61805 Karl, did you ever submit that as a tech article? Did they deny it? Maybe if you threw a picture in there or put in any part #s you had, they'd accept it?

 

It should be the same block, the 3.1 is just a stroked 2.8, and I think the 3.4 is a bored + stroked 2.8

 

Where did you find that TomP?!
Eric

 

personally from what I've heard and drove I heard the 3.4 stock cam is already pretty agressive. Just get your basics like cat back, good intake, hotter ignition, and if your lucky get your hands on some headers. Just my 2 cents. Good luck

 

I just got back to earth from having the flu for two days. Fist Son, they Wife & I.
I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO SUBMIT FOR A TECH ARTICLE. IF someone would provide me a way to do so, PLEASE DO!!
I'd be happy to offer that advice.
The 3.1, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING can anot eb bore out.
Just like a Pontiac 350 engine block cannot be bored out to be a Pontiac 400, even tho a lot of the internal parts are the same. The blocks, have, more/less meat on them. The tranny is the same everything (parts) changes over.
Want more HP?
Get it running, get it right, get it home & play. You'd be surprised how well mannered this engine, as is, is!
It does quite well as is.
This is from one, whose first car was a 1966 Corvette 327-300-4-speed (when I was 16-20) Just like my old Corvette, this Firebird is a very well balanced car. The extra power, from the 3.4engine upgrade is just what the doctor ordered!

 

u cant bore a 2.8/3.1 to a 3.4

its just not possible ... max u can safely overbore is a .060 which if u do with a 3.1 ull probably end up with a 3.2 but thats it for a 3.4 u need a different block...

stroke a 2.8 and u get a 3.1

u cant stoke a 3.1 any more than that ... cos the crankshaft is not readily availabe to stroke more than the 3.1's strokesize (unless u can forge and machine one urself which i dont think is safe)

and a 3.1 overbore .060 over and u get a 3.2 but thats it ...

bottom line ... to get a 3.4 outta a 2.8/3.1 u need a different block

 

Now it makes sense - I unerstand bout the difference between the 350 and 400. You guys have been a big help on all this stuff - it's appreciated!

Someone may have answered this already - but - since the 3.1 and 3.4 blocks are technically different (although damn similar), the only difference is meat then.. Meaning if I find a 3.4 block I don't need to worry about anythign else - like wiring hookups, flywheels, accessories mounts - ya know, the little details that costs you hundreds of dollars later and 2 weeks of delays waiting for new parts (I went through some of that converting from a 302 to a 351w - but then again, thats FORD :-/)

 

PLEASE read the swap thread posted a few "answers" ago.
It will answer so many questions.
Promise.
I wrote it to help guide anyone else thinking AND DOING this swap.
I wrote it quite awhile ago.
I Re-read it recently.
I still stand by what I wrote.
OF the others, here, that have done the swap, they all used my suggestions and it helped big time. I wish I had those answers when I did my swap, it would have saved me about 2 weeks of working with a former friend that's a herion addict. Stupid drugs.

 

I read the swap info - it seems to be some good solid info, I have it bookmarked now. Sorry ked, I didn't read through before in-depth, but after I re-read it I noticed everything in it before I didn't :-/ So, no more questions about conversions! So now the only remaining questions I think are going to be performance related - not conversion related.

Is there a difference of what aftermarket stuff is available for a 3.4 vs a 3.1 block? Or are the internals, like cams, all the same? I ask just because if I go to buy a good performance cam, then I don't want to limite my self. I'm not opposed to putting in a 3.4, but if I can bore it to 3.3 or so, and get comparable performance, then it sure would save the headache of me trying to find a 3.4 for a car that's 2,000 miles away

 

The factory cam in the 3.4 is the Crane cam.
Investigate the costs in your area for purchase of your thoughts (machining vs purchase of used engine)
In Chicago, there must be millions of 92-95 f-bodies!
Better yet, spend the measly $6 for the GM performance parts catalog. All 60* answers are there, too (except the swap).
If you can bore & buy parts and reassemble your old engine in less time then I did my swap working with a herion addicted former friend, :hail:
I only suggest.

 

Karl, just e-mail it in to Dirk, the webmaster. I'm not sure where it goes from there. I don't know his email off-hand, but I think it's at the bottom of the main thirdgen.org page.

Eric, there might've been a problem with the server when you tried; I didn't get any http error. I wonder what happened to Dirk's server for it to be acting up all the time!

 

Thanks for the info.. I'll let you know as things progress - but knowing my dad (who won't leave his house unless it's over 70), it'll take awhile before I have some good updates. I'm still waiting for him to just pull off the heads to see what kinda of condition they are in.. I'm hoping the owner didn't manage to warp them through overheating or something (the engine froze after 140k miles).

 

Do yourself a BIG favor.
Consider the currnt engine dead.
Totally dead.
Now work on the viable options to make your car run again.
Honest, don't bother to take your ENGINE heads off to confirm this.
You just told us, engine froze and it's cold in Chicago.
It's dead, Jim (quoting Star Trek)

 

heh, I'll pass the quote to my dad, his name is Jim :-) Anyone have suggestions as to where to get a motor from? My dad is near Johnson Valley/Yucca Valley/Landers CA. I really want to avoid buying a local motor and shipping it to him - unless I get a KILLER deal on one. a 20k mile 3.4 for $500 I think would be worth shipping, but whats the likelihood of me obtaining that?

 

Is a new 3.4L motor usable, like from a Monte Carlo? IF yes, what kind of power do they put out?

I found one on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...tem=1804020482 with 11k miles..

But my guess is I need to stick with something < '96 to keep things simpler?

 

All you have to do is call this number
323-587-3144
So Cal Auto Wrecking
Ask for MARTY ONLY
tell him Karl that bought a 3.4 motor from you back in Jan of 2001 sent ya.
You want a motor like mine
a used 3.4
40K miles, $800
He offered me one with less milage, MORE MONEY
More milage LESS MONEY
I chose my option.
NO COMPLAINTS.
I do not know how much simplier I can make this for you.
I recently spoke to him and he told me he can get all the 3.4 you want. It may take an extra day but big deal.
PS DO ME A BIG FAVOR, call my friend when you are ready to pick up your motor.
Call him when you are serious to really buy from him.
Not to waste his time.
You already have the "guide/answer" of how much he charges for the engine.
You can ask me all you want, questions, but, my swap thread really answers 99% of the questions.
Again 19-20 swappers have used my thread as a solid guide for their purchase of the 3.4 and for the actual swap. I don't like wasting my time, which is why I wrote that thread, to help answer the questions ya probabaly have.
When I did my swap, I didn't get solid answers.
I discovered this swap option as a very viable option.
That's what I suggest this.

A Monte Carlo is an East West engine. NO GOOD OPTION!
1992-1995 ONLY! F Body.
Promise
Unless you got a deeper pocket and a bigger hammer!!

 

cool - thanks for the info - I have every intention of talking to him REAL soon.. I promise, I won't call until I'm ready to do something. Money is in the bank, now I just gotta make sure my dad is ready to step up to the plate.

I'm pretty new to v6 stuff which is why I've been asking so many questions.. My head has been up Fords butt real far lately - I just finished putting a real sweet 351w in my old stang (of course, pics are on my site)..

Anyways, thanks again for the info - I'll let ya know if I develop any more questions :-)

 

you may want to check the site www.car-part.com and get an engine there too....