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Wheels and TiresNeed help with wheels or tires? Got fitment issues? Have questions about tire performance and handling? Ask all of those questions here!
Well, it should have read "My quest for the perfect wheels." But, I haven't exactly found perfection. I have however come VERY close! I've had to learn a lot about width, diameter, bolt patterns, offset and backspacing. Not to mention all the added attention the tire needs to make it just right. So here is what I have up to this point. Keep in mind, I'm not purchasing wheels in the immediate future, but everything needs to be planned just right so I can get her as close to perfect as possible.
I knew I wanted a black wheel with a polished lip. I looked all over Google and several posts here and that seems to be just what my car needs. On to sizes. In my opinion, 18's just leave a little too much gap in the wheel well for my taste. And 20's are slightly too big. I test fit a 20x10 Foose wheel in my well and it just looked too big. Granted, it is a 40 profile tire, and I will be going with a 35 or 30, but it just didn't work for me. Take a look.
(Pay no mind to the silver around my fuel door. I messed up.) Anyways, it's just too big. But everywhere I looked, 19's looked perfect and seem to be the exact look I want! Problem with that is, 19's aren't very common or popular, or something. But I did find several. Here they all are.
Starting at top left, they are...
Boss 338
Bravado Americana II
Beyern Rapp
TSW Nouvelle
Cray Scorpion
Corvette SR1
TSW Stowe
TSW Jarama
TSW Mirabeau
Giovanna Austin
Speedy Inferno
Lumarai Morro
The Boss and Bravado only come in 18's and 20's and the Giovanna only come in 20's and 22's so that eliminates those three. Bummer, because I really liked the Bravados, but they are matte black so...
I love the look that the wheels with the rivets have! The SR1's are pretty expensive and have a huge offset. So after all options, I am down to the TSW Jarama and the Speedy Inferno. The Jarama is 5 x 120, 19x8 with +20 or +35 offset (front) and 19x9.5 +20 or +45 offset (rear). The Speedy Inferno is 5 x 120, 19x8.5 +20 or +38 offset (front) and 19x9.5 +30 or +38 offset (rear). Jarama's are $267.97 each. I have to call tomorrow to see how much the Inferno's are.
Like I said, not perfect, but close. I want 10" wide in the rear but 9.5 will still work pretty well. Also, 5x120 isn't a "perfect fit" but it is so miniscule, it won't matter.
I will post more tomorrow when I learn the price. Feel free to comment!
Last edited by 85projectZ28; 10-02-2016 at 09:31 PM.
Reason: Spelling and adding one sentence...
Get ready for the haters of all things bigger than stock xD. Not that I would go bigger than my 16s either, but if you like em and have the cash to drop, more power to you my friend.
19" is an oddball size - less tires to to choose from than 18" or 20" and more expensive.
19" can work, but with the added cost (if it matters to you), the shorter sidewall (worse ride and handling), and the weight increase (vs. an 18"), they don't make sense on a 3rd gen - unless for some reason you need the brake clearance.
That said, I would seriously consider the 18" wheel option - even though your eyes may not agree with the visual impact of them right now. The combination of lighter weight, optimal sidewall height, supply of wheel choices, and tire availability is 2nd to none. A 275-35-18 performance tire on a 18" x 10" wheel is perfect on so many levels that you shouldn't ignore it.
18's are a great size for these cars, have a great tire selection and will fit and perform well.
19's are too limited in tire selection
20's are too big and you will loose ride quality and performance of the tire itself since the sidewall will be short.
Also, .65mm is HUGE in any tolerance department, it is not the proper lug pattern and is not good enough. Think of it like having you crankshaft ground .020 and not using oversized bearing to compensate, how do you think that's going to turn out? That's almost same difference in size. There are options to redrill the pattern though which solves that problem at a very reasonable cost. I did it myself with a handful of odd bits and it worked very well. My thread is on here somewhere, should be a sticky already....
Last edited by //<86TA>\\; 10-03-2016 at 06:32 PM.
Ya, not a fan of those. I would like to see a pic though.
Originally Posted by paul_huryk
19" is an oddball size - less tires to to choose from than 18" or 20" and more expensive.
19" can work, but with the added cost (if it matters to you), the shorter sidewall (worse ride and handling), and the weight increase (vs. an 18"), they don't make sense on a 3rd gen - unless for some reason you need the brake clearance.
That said, I would seriously consider the 18" wheel option - even though your eyes may not agree with the visual impact of them right now. The combination of lighter weight, optimal sidewall height, supply of wheel choices, and tire availability is 2nd to none. A 275-35-18 performance tire on a 18" x 10" wheel is perfect on so many levels that you shouldn't ignore it.
Well, I agree with that. I'm looking around and 19" tires aren't very plentiful. I just might end up going with 18's.
Originally Posted by //\\
18's are a great size for these cars, have a great tire selection and will fit and perform well.
19's are too limited in tire selection
20's are too big and you will loose ride quality and performance of the tire itself since the sidewall will be short.
Also, .65mm is HUGE in any tolerance department, it is not the proper lug pattern and is not good enough. Think of it like having you crankshaft ground .020 and not using oversized bearing to compensate, how do you think that's going to turn out? That's almost same difference in size. There are options to redrill the pattern though which solves that problem at a very reasonable cost. I did it myself with a handful of odd bits and it worked very well. My thread is on here somewhere, should be a sticky already....
And yes, 18's are pretty great for 3rd gens. Bummer because I don't like having all that wheel gap. However, with the car lowered, and a 35 profile wide tire, it just might be pretty close to perfect.
As for the .65mm, I know this is a very touchy and debated topic. I've heard both sides and heard MANY real world stories with no problems, and only 2 where something happened. I'm still leaning towards saying it will be fine, but more research will be done. But that .65mm is overall diameter difference in the bolt pattern, which means it is half of that on all 5 studs! That's like taking a mechanical pencil lead refill and cutting it in half! That's practically nothing. When I put my stock wheels on, it wiggles what appears to be about 1/8" before it settles as it gets torqued tight. So if stock tolerances aren't that exact, I'm pretty sure using 120mm will be just fine. But like I said, I'm definitely going to do more research and real world measuring.
And yes, 18's are pretty great for 3rd gens. Bummer because I don't like having all that wheel gap. However, with the car lowered, and a 35 profile wide tire, it just might be pretty close to perfect.
Keep in mind there are plenty of 275-40-18 tires out there for use too - instead of a shorter sidewall 275-35-18.
I checked out the Speedy's and that looks like a no go. The number to Speedy in Cali is not responding and has no info on the voicemail as far as it being a company. I called 2 other wheel dealers and they are no longer carrying the Speedy line so I'm guessing they're gone.
I also decided to go with 18's. So here are my final 2 choices:
Now to choose between the two setups.
Bravado Americana II
Front.
Wheels: 18x9 +30 offset.
Tires: Nitto NT05 265/35/18
I suggest you go 18" x 9.5" or 18" x 10" wheels on all 4 corners - allows for proper wheel rotation and will allow more balanced handling - staggered setups like you listed will understeer heavily.
I suggest you go 18" x 9.5" or 18" x 10" wheels on all 4 corners - allows for proper wheel rotation and will allow more balanced handling - staggered setups like you listed will understeer heavily.
Simple physics - something called mechanical understeer.
Mechanical understeer is understeer brought about by not having enough tire on the front end of a car (enough tire can minimize or eliminate the condition).
3rd gens typically have a front:rear weight distribution of 55%:45%. With a square setup (OEM 245-50-16 as an example), the car pushes a little in turns due to tires and some due to the rear suspension parts (GM parts). Since each tire is the same size, the rear tires have a bit more traction than the front, so the front "pushes".
If you do the "typical stagger" that many 3rd genners do - 245 up front, 275 out back, the extra contact patch out back gives even more traction on the *** end, the same up front. That leads to heavy "push".
55% of the weight on 245mm and the remaining 45% on a 275 tire. Mechanically the 245 is going to lose traction way before the 275 ever will.
Now if you put a 275 or 285 on all 4 corners, the mechanical oversteer will go down - not gone, but minimized.
The only cars that should be setup in a staggered setup are rear or mid engined cars - even cars with 50:50 weight distribution handle better on a square setup.
Well like I said, this has been a long, dynamic undertaking. Several things have come up and change has been inevitable. But I'm 99% certain I have found the exact setup I want. I'm going with these vette wheels.
I am going with 18x9.5" fronts. This will require me to get 2" spacers for the fronts since the backspacing on these wheels is about 7&1/4".
The front tires will be Nitto NT05 275/35/18.
Rear wheels will be 18x10.5" with 7.9" of backspace. I am putting a 93-97 rear diff so it should fit just fine. I may need a small spacer, 1/4" if anything, but most likely not.
The rear tires will be Nitto NT05R 285/40/18.
I would prefer to have a 295 in the rear but the NT05R only comes in 285, 305, and 315 in 18's for some reason. I'm not certain if the 305's wold be too wide, but they are a 45 profile tire and would put the overall diameter in the high 27" range. Too big.
Plus, this is all planning for now. Things could change but I'm pretty sure this is the best option.
Total price for the wheels is $460.00 Total for the front tires is about $455.94 Total for the rear tires is about $671.94 The spacers should be about $100.00 which should bring the total to approximately $1,687.88
All of this, however, is one of the latter steps of my build. First I have to do my rear suspension, then the rear diff, then the torque arm, then the tranny, then the interior, THEN I will put my wheels and tires. 😥
Engine is the final and most expensive and complicated part of my build. Any generous donors out there?!? 😅
paul_huryk I'd like your input on this one. I've been reading about staggered and squared setups and how those effect understeer. Drag cars run skinnies up front and beasts in the rear. Track cars typically run square. I want to be able to do both, but more track than drag strip. I went to rimsntires.com and plugged in my desired set up and got this.
Even though the wheels are staggered by 1", the tires are only .4" different in width. That's pretty close to square. I have also eliminated a lot of weight from the front and should have very close to 50:50 weight distribution. What are your thoughts on that setup? Front tires will be Nitto NT05 and the rears will be Nitto NT05R in the exact specs listed on that pic above.
The whole idea behind running a "square tire setup' is to have the same grip available on all 4 corners and the added benefit to be able to rotate the wheels around the car without visiting the tire shop to dismount them, ECT.
The setup you listed will be ok, the rears are 27" tall, a bit much but will fit. Both will need spacers to fit properly.
50:50 is very very hard to do on these things so its doubtful your even close, but don't get too caught up on that right now. The 18x9.5 with 275's would be a good setup for all 4 corners with 4 identical wheels and tires.
Nice ride jclopezz! Cali right? And parking sideways in a handicap spot, breaking the law like a boss! So, what wheel/tire are you running and with what mods?
The whole idea behind running a "square tire setup' is to have the same grip available on all 4 corners and the added benefit to be able to rotate the wheels around the car without visiting the tire shop to dismount them, ECT.
The setup you listed will be ok, the rears are 27" tall, a bit much but will fit. Both will need spacers to fit properly.
50:50 is very very hard to do on these things so its doubtful your even close, but don't get too caught up on that right now. The 18x9.5 with 275's would be a good setup for all 4 corners with 4 identical wheels and tires.
Well, I'll have drag radials in the rear, so I can't swap those to the fronts. But close enough in width and diameter that I should have an almost squared setup.
I really don't think I will need spacers in the rear. I am putting a 93-97 12 bolt which is 2" wider per side. Plus I have done some cutting and BFH mods to the rear well. It should be ok.
Also, I'll bet you $50.50 that I'm way closer to 50:50 than you think! Tubular BMR A-arms and K member, BMR coilovers, lighter Wilwood disc brake kit, complete heater and A/C system delete, no wiper motor or blades, S10 manual steering box, custom aluminum front bumper support, fiberglass hood, and new engine will have aluminum heads. Wanna gamble bruh???
Last edited by 85projectZ28; 11-07-2016 at 10:53 PM.
Reason: Humor
I suggest for most that if you go to the track, to get an extra pair of rear wheels to mount drag radials/cheater/slicks so you can keep your street setup optimal.
Square wheel setups are preferable as if you stagger too much, you can get mechanical understeer that is going to make the car harder to driver fast. But a 10mm difference in tread isn't going to make much difference at all.
I would suggest that you use a 18" x 9.5" wheel (or even a 10" wheel) and run a 275-35-18 tire on all 4 corners. And buy another pair of wheels to run drag radials.
I suggest for most that if you go to the track, to get an extra pair of rear wheels to mount drag radials/cheater/slicks so you can keep your street setup optimal.
Square wheel setups are preferable as if you stagger too much, you can get mechanical understeer that is going to make the car harder to driver fast. But a 10mm difference in tread isn't going to make much difference at all.
I would suggest that you use a 18" x 9.5" wheel (or even a 10" wheel) and run a 275-35-18 tire on all 4 corners. And buy another pair of wheels to run drag radials.
I understand the basis of the mechanical understeer but you can definitely compensate for it if that gives you the look you want. I run C6 wheels on mine which are not only wider rears but taller also. When I got the car it had some cheapo tires on the rear and I could not keep the rear under me.
I got some Cooper Zeon tires and put some Founders trailing arms on and now I have a hard time breaking the rear lose, even on off camber turns.
My rears are 19x10 with a 3" spacer and the fronts are 18x8.5 with a 2" spacer. My wheels barely clear the inner wheel well so you may have some clearance issue on the front if you run 10" wide. I could go to a 3" spacer in front but the wheel would stick out to far for my taste.
Nice ride jclopezz! Cali right? And parking sideways in a handicap spot, breaking the law like a boss! So, what wheel/tire are you running and with what mods?
The rims are off a 2015 Camaro wrapped on 255/45/18 rear and 235/45/18 front and just had to install 1" adapters for them to fit and Cali it is indeed
I have Wilwood front disc brakes that extend further than stock. Not sure by how much though. And the 18x9.5 fronts will use a 2" spacer/adapter. That should give me all the clearance I need, but it may be close.
Well, I ran into another small problem. I've been looking for 2" wheel spacers for the fronts. I've found plenty, but the problem is the studs. Every one I have seen so far has 12x1.5 studs. The Wilwood front brakes I have came with 1/2-20 studs. I definitely don't want two different sets of lug nuts for the front and back. There are a couple companies I found that will make custom adapters.
I will call them this coming week to see if it's possible to get the right ones, and get a quote. Unless someone else knows where I can find what I'm looking for??
As far 19 " wheel there's plenty of tire selections for the wheels and it's not that of a odd ball wheel IMO many people run them especially in BMW world now if you racing etc then 18 does have larger selection but it's not like 19" doesn't have good choice of tires and quite easy to find tires
I personally prefer the look of 19 on 35 series tire it is a taller tire but it just fills wheel well better than the 18 and if I do 18 again I would get a taller tire 45 series probably
As far as clearance measurements is everything and with custom adapter you can can zero or minor rubbing full lock if running 10 or wider
As far as staggered and square setup best is squared but if you have adjustable suspension setup then you can get tune out understeer with staggered setup
Pic below are 19x9. 5 and 19x10. 5 iirc On 35series tire sport cups
Looks aside, 19" wheels and tires weigh a lot more than the same ones in 18" (same wheels of course) - and the sidewall is getting too short to not hurt handling with a 25.75" tall tire.
You may be able to compensate supension-wise somewhat for a staggered tire/wheel setup, but with about 55% of the weight on the front with a skinnier tire, you can only do so much.
As far 19 " wheel there's plenty of tire selections for the wheels and it's not that of a odd ball wheel IMO many people run them especially in BMW world now if you racing etc then 18 does have larger selection but it's not like 19" doesn't have good choice of tires and quite easy to find tires
I personally prefer the look of 19 on 35 series tire it is a taller tire but it just fills wheel well better than the 18 and if I do 18 again I would get a taller tire 45 series probably
As far as clearance measurements is everything and with custom adapter you can can zero or minor rubbing full lock if running 10 or wider
As far as staggered and square setup best is squared but if you have adjustable suspension setup then you can get tune out understeer with staggered setup
Pic below are 19x9. 5 and 19x10. 5 iirc On 35series tire sport cups
True as far as single piece cast not denying that at all , larger you go heavier they get for same type wheel
but compared to
rotary forged and 3 piece different story compared to stock and single cast are alot lighter
True about the weight up front I would rather run square setup any day from my experience but you can lighten the front end to off set that weight from stock if suspension tuning doesn't work out
Technically speaking now if let's say your running 10 11 or 12 rear Vs 8 or 8.5 then yes rear grips to much I had a such setup 8 and rear 10 but a 9.5 and 10 rear was alot better or a 10 and 11 rear doesn't really offset the handling that bad and tuning suspension works greatly
As far as ride quality I had 900lb and over 1000lb springs up front 200 rear and ride quality wasn't that bad with koni and kyb shock setups to me on 35 series tires and handling wasn't compromise granted I dont have a track recorder but as far as street driven car concern the difference minor all that aside but I had 3 piece wheels so yea
I prefer the square setup due to being able to rotate tires is nice but staggered setup I don't mind as well alignment good and tire pressure check can get good tire wear but this getting to technical lol
And let's face it any one looking for repro isn't concerned with weight like us technical guys where that's first thing I look at Lol
Last edited by Zach/90\irocZ; 12-13-2016 at 09:06 PM.
I found these wheels too and they are sweet! Advan GT. But $803 per wheel?!?!? Well, I'm sure they are worth it, but I can't afford that. At least not yet.
Thanks..the color was the final deciding factor for me to buy the car.. I just wish I knew what color it is, for touch up paint. The RPO sheet shows the original color was black with red stripes.
It is pretty easy to find Forgeline dealers offering 15% off. We run the GW3R on our GTA in competition and couldn't be happier with the quality of the wheel or the customer service.
Having second thoughts again, but I think it's for the better. The vette wheels are near the look I wanted but I've heard that the quality of OEWHEELS is hit or miss. The price is great but I need good quality for the build I'm doing. $800-$1,300 per wheel is just too expensive. $111 per wheel is great but I need the quality of the forged, more expensive wheels, like Forgeline or SSR. There is a wheel that I originally liked a lot, even before I started this thread, but I stopped considering it due to price. Well, now after doing more research, I'm back to them and strongly considering them as my final choice when compared to the others.
Weld Racing RTS S71 black.
These wheels have the look I wanted but I couldn't imagine that I could afford $600+ per wheel at the time. I probably still can't, but it's better than $800-$1,300 per wheel. Plus, they are forged aluminum, very strong and lightweight, are tough, reliable, durable, and have great reviews. In addition, they come in a huge variety of configurations so I can pick the exact size I need for a perfect fit without dealing with spacers. I was having some issues finding the proper spacer/adapter setup. I would be looking at about $630 per wheel. Pretty high still, but half the price of the Forgelines. (But the Forgelines are amazing!) An article I have followed off and on is the Project Respect Camaro and it has the RTS S71 wheels on it and it looks great!
Once again, I'm at another option. This time, I think I found the perfect set-up. I'm fairly certain this will be my final choice. (How many times have I said that?) What helped me decide in the end was finally getting my rear differential on. Now I could accurately measure backspace and find the perfect fit for the rear. With my rear differential on, I test fit a wheel from a C6 Corvette (thanks to an awesome neighbor!) on the rear. It was a 18x9.5" with 6.8" of backspace. I still had about an inch and a half of backspace to spare.
I also got to see what a silver wheel would look like compared to an all black. I fell in love with the look of silver/grey.
I found a look and fit that is perfect, exactly what I want! The C6 Z06 wheels in hyperblack. They are 18x9.5" with 7.3" of backspace. I will need a 3" spacer up front for that, but the rear fits perfect. As for tires, I am going with Nitto NT05 in the front, 275/35/18. The rear will be Nitto NT05R at 285/40/18.
In the pic with my neighbors wheel, he has a 275/35/18 tire. In my opinion, it looks way too low-profile for the rear. A nice 40 profile drag radial should do the trick. Plus, the 275's are 10.8" wide while the 285's are 11.2" wide. This should keep me pretty close to a square set-up, but also give me a little more grip in the rear for the neck-snapping launches I will need at the 1320. This car after all is an attempt to be a completely capable car in any venue it is thrown into. There is still a lot more that needs to be done before I buy the wheels and tires, but I think I may have just found that level of perfection I was hoping for.
10-02-2016, 09:24 PM
