Give me their name, the manager/owners names, location, and phone number. I want to call and be an *** to them. I'm not even going to touch the fuel/oil pressure safety switch issue. I am confused now, everyone's argument sounds valid to me since I do not know for sure. I would like to know though since I recently picked up a MAF TPI car.

I have a good idea: Post their exact name and address and
the owner's name. We can all mail them
a duplicate statement and it will freak
them out since they will receive hundred
s of the same statement signed and mail
ed from different people all over the USA.
Maybe we could even send them a copy
of this thread. Or better yet just keep
them guessing. It would be especially
good if we could get people to include
their automotive credentials in their
signature(eg. blah blah...signed so & so
GM technition, USA Chevrolet, OKC, OK,
or Manager, Valvoline Instant Oil Change
Anywhere, USA. I hate people who do
this to customers.

 

I have a feeling this thread is gonna last for a long time....

 

Wow, you guys really make it tempting for me to post up their company and address. haha. I would love to see their faces if they got letters about this.

The owner didn't mention the oil switch/relay/ecu thing at all actually. I think when i was talking to the two mechanics, they quickly figured out i knew more then they did (which is kind of sad).

Not sure if the owner might be saving that as an 'ace in the hole' for court or anything, but I do have this thread to print out, and more than enough backing to prove that it wasn't the case.

Right now what I need is written statements by chevy that 'running a chevy engine without oil will destroy it'. I e-mailed chevy, but typically, i got the, "uh, we don't do that here' response. Luckily, they referred me to chevy dealer shops, and said their technicians were representatives of chevy, and would be able to tell me what needed to be done, and had chevys backing. So i might be able to use that, mixed with some written
statements from the chevy mechanics i have contacted about this so far.

Hopefully I can get this resolved. I have driven the car about a total of 15 miles now. It seems fairly quiet, i heard a clicking coming from the engine for the first few miles, but I haven't heard it again. Haven't checked really either i guess, just listening with the window down while driving to and from work. I should see if I can get time off work, and really let it idle, pop the hood, and listen for anything which might be amiss.

If my engine only made clicking noises for a little while, and now sounds quite, does that somehow mean there was no damage done? Or is this just fresh oil quieting the worn/broken components?

Im figuring it's still pretty worn, expecially hearing it idle dry for 30 seconds, when this all happened. Too bad I wasn't close enough to my car when the mechanic drove it, so I could have heard how it sounded. After hearing the dry-idle, it makes me grind my teeth to think about how it must have sounded driving 150+ yards.

 

I might be getting screwed too, I will see what happens, but I just got off the phone with my credit card company, they said that the billing for the replacements was unauthorized and illegal, so if the credit doesn't show up on my next statement, they will have to kill me to stop me. I consider something like this as a direct intentional and unlawful extortion of funds from the consumer, and it it no different than if they robbed me at gun point. If they make good, then I will ultimately give them a good recomendation though, but it looks bad right now. I'm vennnnting LOL.

www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87283

 

In order to protect TGO from any liability or allegations of libel, I would advise against posting the name of the service organization at this time. It isn't likely to help his cause, either, and Christos needs to project an image of operating in good faith and expecting the reparations that are due him.

If I see a posting like that, the whole thread could go bye-bye, and we've got too much effort invested in it at this point to wipe it all out.

Let Christos handle the matter with his legal representation and see how it turns out before we start to get dirty en-masse.

 

I cant believe this post is still going on, will it ever end, i think im going LOONEY :lala: :lala: :lala:


:lala: :lala: :lala:

 

It will go on until his ordeal is over. Remember, he is our thirdgen brother, and we are not wrong to support him. Also, I'd never want this website or Dirk to be sued, nor would I participate in any activity that would lead to such. But, for one, it is a free country and we are not lying about them on here as far as we know, two this isn't an organization with actual named members who pay dues which means thirdgen isn't really an organized private club. It is a website that gives access to anyone with internet access, and what is posted in the public forums is not necessarily the opinions of the operators of thirdgen.org. I just don't like to see the little guy get picked on, besides, if we did call them or send letters, we wouldn't have to tell them that we were from a website, rather friends and concerned citizens. If they do not at least have the motor replaced with a rebuilt, or pay the amount for such, then I's report them to the Better Business Bureau, as well as the local chamber of commerce. It is one thing for an individual to screw someone over, but a business doen't have the luxury of getting away with it as easily. Good Luck, and keep us posted for the duration.

 

Just disconnect the oil pressure safety switch, start the car, and go for a ride. Question answered.

And I agree- don't mention the shop's name at all, until a resolution comes out.

 

This topic is old.. Whats the deal with your engine?

I have a couple of GM service manuals from when my family owned a dealership.

The manual pretty much says that the fuel pump will remain on as
long as the relay is energized, OR 5lbs of oil pressure are in the system - Which is why the hard starting is a result when a relay is broken.

It really doesn't say anything about the oil pressure switch being used as a safety, but I really can't see why it cannot be used as one - mainly because the ECM primes the rails for 2 seconds when ignition is turned on. So the problem seems to be (according to your testing) that the ECM keeps the circuit energized while running, which it shouldn't do.

It _Should_ prime the system, and let the switch take over the rest.. I really can't believe it doesn't work that way, but oh well. I'll test it myself on my car, and if it doesn't then I'll make it with a small time delay circuit.

-- Joe

 

I got a car in to test this on. I hooked up a fuel pressure guage
and fired it up and unplugged the oil sending unit, the 3 wire style
with the fuel pump switch in it. Fuel pressure did not drop. Let
the car run in the shop for 5 minutes with no pressure loss.

They say you should learn something new every day.
Well that was it for today.

 

Hey,

Its obvious that the problem is the ECM remains to power the fuel pump. A small time delay switch (3 seconds after ignition is on, kill power) should work fine, because even while cranking enough oil pressure triggers the switch..

what was GM thinking??

-- Joe

 

As far as starting your car with no oil in it. I talked to my friend who has been a certified mechanic for some 20 years and he said there is no way something bad didn't happen to the engine if it was started without oil. Absolutly positivly no way.

 

ok the oil switch does not shut the car off if it does not have oil i drained my oil and tryed it the engine ran till it locked up 15 mins or so later i did this just for the fun of it the engine is now junk and i can change it yay no one else should do this im not responsible if you do and blow your engine no oil in a engine is very very bad thing

 

They usually don't lock up.

Why did this thread spit into two??

-- Joe

 

<b>UPDATE</b>:

I was driving home yesterday, (ive put about 150 miles on my car now) and when i hit the brakes for a red light, my car suddenly pulled to the right.

I was right next to my place when this happened, so when i pulled right into my road, i pushed the brakes again twice, and again both times my car dove to the right.

Im mentioning this because i had the same auto place install new pads in the front when i originally took it in, and all of this happened. They did mention that my rear calipers were bad though, before they test drove it. I had setup an appointment to have them replaced the next day there, but i canceled it after they ran my car without oil.

So I talked to a legal advisor, and they said i should have them look at it (as much as i don't want them to touch my car) and see what they say about it. I called the manager and told him, he was confident it was the rear calipers, im not sure myself, because it hasn't ever done this before ever, and i just had them working on my breaks, so it makes me suspicious.

As far as my engine goes, when i first got my car back, and was driving it, i heard a clicking noise coming from the engine after a cold startup, once the engine was warm, the clicking stopped. After that, a few days later, when it was idling cold, it made a sort of thumping noise, and the rmps dropped a tiny bit when it did with each thump. it did this for about a minute. Both were intermittent, and neither one happened again.

Those two intermittent sounds were all that have come up so far though. I called them about the breaks today, but they have to talk to the owner first to see if they can check it out.

Ill post back up once i have more info. Ive been waiting for something to happen so i could post again on this topic.

*** this crap never ends...

 

Rear calipers almost never cause a pull, especially on a live axle rear suspension.I 've seen rears that one caliper worked great and the other one didn't work at all, and the only symptom was below average brake performance and one rusty rotor.

Pulling when braking is almost always the front brakes. It pulls toward the side that's working. So if it pulls right, check the left one.

 

I know exactly how u feel guy

 

Wonder if they let the calipers hang by the hoses when they did the brakes like most retards do and ruined your hoses?

 

I agree , rear brakes don't make a car pull. Have them fix them and it will still do it. THEN WHAT?? Get the hay away from that place.

 

You should have another brake place check out your brakes, go to a place where they have FREE Brakes inspection see what they have to say.

 

They still didnt get you a new engine? Thats not right man, you break it you buy it.

 

<b>UPDATE:</b>

Ok, still on the brakes. Nobody contacted me, even though they were open on the weekend.

I called back today, and spoke with the manager. He said the owner didn't want me to come back, and didn't want to touch my car anymore. They are confident that the brake problem was unrelated to their work that they did on my brakes.

I will go for a free brake inspection somewhere else as soon as I can, and see what they say. Might be more fuel for the fire in court if i can prove it was them screwing up again.

Ill post up once I have more info.

Thanks for following this thread everyone! I will keep everything posted, until it's all finished. Hopefully It will have a happy ending, but regardless of the outcome, i think this thread has value, if even to show what consumer rights really are, and how our court system works for the consumer. (once i take this to court)

 

Christos,

Try slowing your car down (gently/carefully!) using just the parking brake. Of course, do this in a safe place (empty, straight road, deserted parking lot, etc) to see if it is the rear brakes. Since you'll be using only the rear brakes, you'll know if it is the front or rear making it pull.

 

Christos,

I'm not sure what MikeS said has any relevance to your braking issue.

The emergency brake is mechanical, rather than hydraulic in nature, and a failure in one system may or may not affect the other system.

Certainly in the case of 82-88 rear disc brakes, if the caliper was not adjusted properly, it's likely that neither the e-brake nor the hydraulic brake would function correctly. I would assume the same would go for out of adjustment drum brakes.

However, hydraulic problems (such as a brake leak or clogged hose) won't affect the ebrake operation, and likewise stuck, frozen, or broken parts in the ebrake system won't affect the hydraulic brake operation (except in the case of the 82-88 brakes, and even they won't show a problem immediately).

Not withstanding all of the above, I have never observed nor heard of a rear brake problem causing a pull on a live axle car, and I don't think it's even possible. I have observed these cars with a poorly functioning / not working caliper on ONE side of the rear and one perfectly fine caliper NOT pull at all.

 

<b>UPDATE:</b>

Well, i fired up my car on monday, to have the brakes checked out, and test drove it first. The brakes were working fine.

Anyone have any idea what could have caused it to pull like that, and then after a weekend of sitting, suddenly work fine? confuses me.

No new info on the engine still. Haven't even been through the "mediation" part of the BAR's help yet. I will have to contact a court to make sure this is something I can go to small claims court for. Ill post back when i have more info.

I'll say it again, ill keep posting as things come up, I want to see the end to this story more than anyone. : )

 

Christos,

Clogged hoses don't normally fix themselves, so I'll make a SWAG that either the caliper was not sliding properly on the slide pins or the caliper piston was stuck. Either way I'm thinking it finally popped loose.

I'll also say, watch out for problems that magically fix themselves, because they have a nasty tendency to magically unfix themselves at highly inconvenient times. I believe a man by the name of Murphy put it slightly more succinctly than I can.

Inspect the front calipers for proper lubrication of the slide pins and proper engagement. It's entirely possible that the caliper may "mostly work" now, but continue to "drag" on the rotor more than it should. Try spinning the rotor by hand with the caliper on there, it should spin with little effort and should slow down after you let go from brake drag. If it stops almost immediately after you stop turning it, your pad(s) are probably dragging.

 

99Hawk120,
I was just using that as a way to narrow down possible causes. I realize that the parking brake is purely a mechanical system. Thus, it can be used to determine if the problem is mechanical in nature and if it lies in the front or rear brakes. Sounds like you're calling it a mechanical problem in the front now, so maybe there was some relevance after all . Oh yeah, I'm dumb. What's a SWAG? I should probably know it, but can't figure it out.

Christos,
Looking forward to seeing some more updates. Sorry to hear the progress is slow.

 

Mike,

I'm 99.44% certain the problem lies in the front brakes.

I've seen so many F-bodies with malfunctioning/nonfunctioning rear disc brakes (gotta love those factory 82-88 discs) and not ONE ever exhibited pulling. Poor braking, objectionable noises, excessive brake dive, non-functioning parking brakes, yes; pulling, no.

At any rate, SWAG stands for "Scientific Wild *** Guess", if you must know.

 

I'm with Hawk on this one...a pull will be in the front brakes....

the rears on these cars don't do much of anything anyway...

 

Guys, I agree. Just thought that that would help settle it for him instead of having to take it for an inspection since he said this:

"Im mentioning this because i had the same auto place install new pads in the front when i originally took it in, and all of this happened. They did mention that my rear calipers were bad though, before they test drove it. I had setup an appointment to have them replaced the next day there, but i canceled it after they ran my car without oil. "

I wasn't saying that it was the rear, just something he could use to verify.

 

I had a similar problem on my old 84 Merc. The left front caliper completely locked up one day. A mechanic friend looked at it and discovered that the oil leak from the engine had flowed onto the caliper, and the resulting gunk was interfering with the normal operation.

 

well after spending an hour reading what everyone has said.....
i won't ever take my car somewhere to have the oil done, near me Jiffy Lube is the place at every corner that does oil and i have personally known 3 people that have blown their motors after going there. In all 3 cases they forgot to put the stupid plug back in before pouring in the oil then gave the car back with no oil in it cause it just drained out as they poured it in...all 3 cases the people got a mile or so down the road and YIKES! the engine locked up....
however all 3 cases Jiffy Lube was prompt about it and got these people new engines, paid for them, everything without having to get lawyers or go to court or anything...
Christos-
good luck with it and keep us posted. As everyone has said that did take off a lot of life on your car and with the brakes....i dunno what to think about that, thats just weird...almost like something got stuck then worked itself free again.
if only you had carried a tape recorder with you when you spoke with the owner and manager...
good luck with it...keep us posted and if you post their names/address/business all that good stuff i for one will be glad to write a complaint letter to them and do whatever i can to spread the word for people to never go to that place again!

 

It is your front brakes.
I just had this problem, and I replaced the calipers, didnt
fix it, I replaced the pads, didnt fix it..
turned out is was a combination of a bad rotor, and a blown
brake hose line. Make sure your rotors arent warped.
check your lines by disconnecting them and have someone
hit the brakes, if fluid comes out good and there is no leaks
anywhere.
check your calipers ensuring the piston is engaging fully.

As for the shop. I would contact a Lawyer on this matter
without hesitation.
and gather all the information you can on the incident
get as much data in writing as possible.
take photographs, audio samples, video footage.. whatever
means you can.

 

Aw, the poor guy, you're bothering him! What a jerk. Maybe next time they won't screw up a car this badly. I'd be coming back constantly.

 

Uhhhh...did i miss something?is this hting over?I wanna know what happens!!!!

 

No, it's not over yet.

Im moving to Denver here on tuesday, and garaging my car here in california. Im still waiting for the BAR to mediate everything, (to see if they agree to fix my engine) and if they refuse, Ill wait for the BBB to try and mediate everything, and if that fails, then I will have both of them backing me up if/when i take this to small claims court.

Once all of this is finished, I will fly back from Denver, to go to small claims court. All in all, this whole thing should take between 2-4 months total. I figure within a month, the BBB and BAR will have finished up, then Ill have to suapina (sp?) them for my small claims suit against them. Then, they can either call me and mediate once more, ( Meaning, pay to fix my engine, without going to court) Or they can risk having their business branded poor by the BAR and BBB, if I win my case.

Im hoping I won't have to go that far, but it looks like I might have to. When I called a small claims court advisor, he said it takes up to 90 days for a court date to process through, but he also mentioned at this time, current wait time was 37 days.

So im going to move, and be without my car for months and months. What fun all of this is. Take it from me guys, if you can't do an oil change, for fear of your housing commitee's rules against it, print out this 100 foot thread, and show them what happens when you abide by their rules. : )

Ill keep you all posted as stuff comes up, as always. Again, It might be a month or so before I have more information. : (

 

Ahhh...that answered my question,thanks.I hope you get your car payed for whether they get closed down or not.I think it sounds like they know they messed up,since they wont let you near the place anymore.Good luck.

 

bringing back the old topic...

any update on the case?

 

For real i was reading all of it and all of a sudden it stopped you u started it again, i wont to hear what happned.

by the way nice car man

 

Sorry, here is the link to the second part:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...nic+just+drove

It's still small, because at this point im waiting on the BAR to finish up on the mediation, which still hasn't even begun yet all these months later.

I will post updates as always. Hopefully nobody gets too sick of this and locks the post! I just want everyone to know what happened, and what Im going through, and the outcome once it's over.

After it's over, i should compile the posts, and call it, "Why you change your own oil, regardless of a $20-50 household community fee if you get caught!"

 

ok this may be irrlelavent but i had a oil leak from the front of my motor that somehow got oil on the back of my front right rotor......everytime i hit the brakes the car pulled hard left.........i know you said you had a few oil leaks so i only mention it as an idea.......plus i had to get in on this record breaking thread......lol

btw the chrome strip in the pic is now off my car(just preventing flames......)

 

i know this post is kinda dead, and i dont know what happened with you and your engine, but i work at a tire place that does oil changes, and dont let them bullsh*t you at all, I checked yesterday and they can get me a gm grate 350 long block for $1600 including shipping, because they get all these discounts and other stuff, most any tire/oil/garage gets these discounts.

How did the fight end?

 

Still going on really.

Im debating on picking up my car and driving it until the engine actually dies. From what I can see, the statue of limitations for the suit can be at least a year from the incident (late may), so that might be my best bet.

Right now im mostly worried about having the case thrown because the engine does still run.

 

The problem with driving it till it dies is then you could have just gone out and rodded it...they and you have no proof that you didnt just put a stick on the gas pedal and go to lunch.

I wouldnt give them any outs.

 

Is it over yet?

:hail:IROC-Z

 

No, not over.

I have to call a small claims court advisor today abotu which papers i need to fill and submit for various things to get the court thing started.

Work is way busy right now, so I can't do it just yet. Ill post more as always, don't worry, everyoen will know the outcome!

 

This has to be the longest thread in Thirdgen.org history...