Hi All,
I read about this place in Car Craft.
Hoping you guys are helpful, too!
HELP!
I overheated the engine in my 1985 Firebird, 2.8 MPFI/Auto.
I'm going to get a 3.4 from a SoCal wrecking yard for $750 & a 6 month warranty. The engine is coming in from the Bakersfiled wrecking yard. This is good, as it will not be subjected to LA city driving habits.
So far, so good.
NOW... questions?
Sensors?
Computers? (Can I keep my old 1985 & that PROM or need I get the other one with the engine?).
I recently installed a NEW timing chain on my 2.8. I want to swap that out from the old 2.8 to the 3.4.

ANYTHING ELSE?

How do I remove the Fuel Injector connection?
I plan on keeping the new fuel injector system (it comes complete). I plan on swapping the top 2.8/3.4 badge, as I can pass smog that way (they won't know & I won't tell).
HELP TIPS, CLUES!!
Thanks much!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Welcome to the board! You're just going to put the 3.4 block into your car. Everything else from the 2.8 will bolt on, and that includes the heads & exhaust & fuel injection system. So, since you'll be using the 2.8's fuel injection, the 2.8's computer & sensors & etc will work with the 3.4 block.

For directions on yanking off the top end of the motor, you can buy a Haynes 82-92 Firebird manual for $10. (Forget about Chilton's.) If you want the best, you can buy the GM Service Manual direct from http://www.helminc.com for $80 or so. I have both, the GM one is well worth the extra.

Why not install another new chain on the 3.4? Did you buy the $90 true-dual-roller one from Cloyes?


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Thanks for the quick reply!
I got a TRW timing chain for $25. Made all the difference to my original flopping in the wind, one.
I am getting a complete engine. Already has distributor, injection system, too. I need the 3.4 injectors for the larger engine, anyway.
All I am doing is unbolting the exhaust from the exhaust manifolds, reattaching all the 1985 wiring sensors to the 1994 block.
I do not plan on swapping fuel injection units, as I BELIEVE I need not.
DO I NEED TO GET THE 1994 ECM, TOO?
I think, so.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

What 3.4 block are you getting with a distributor? Is this from a 4th gen f-body? As far as I knew, all 4th gen f-bodies used a DIS ignition system on the 3.4 blocks. The injection system also looks nothing like the 2.8's, so any smog guy would be able to pick up on the difference right away. If you're switching everything over (including injection), then yes you'll need the appropriate computer and the appropriate engine wiring harness that originally went with that motor. What car was this engine in?


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

The engine I'm getting is from an F-bodied car.
I'm told, ONLY DIFFERENCES, SO FAR, is some sensors.
Keep the old and new blocks side-by-side together, swap 2.8 old and "other 3.4 sensors" to keep my old wiring harness working fine.
The injection systems are the same.
I know, you're referring to a front wheel drive engine/injection set up?

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

No, I'm referring to a RWD 3.4/4L60 combo. Looks like you'll need to see what you're buying first, and then figure out what fits. The way the 2.8-to-3.4 swap usually happens involves switching the 2.8 block out for the 3.4 block. Everything 2.8 is re-used, except for maybe the 3.4 injectors.

The 3.4 uses a SFI injection system, which stands for sequential fuel injection. The MPFI on the 2.8's is different. The 3.4 is also OBD-II compliant, the 2.8 isn't. The 3.4 uses a DIS (distributorless) ignition system, the 2.8 uses a distributor. I also think that in 1993-1994 (only years for 3.4 in f-body), the 3.4 used the MAP system for determining incoming air flow. Your 1985 2.8 uses the MAF system. There's more differences; if you want to use the top of the 3.4, you're going to need to use the engine wiring harness and computer.

Of course, I could be wrong about all this, because I've never done this swap. You probably know better as to what you need. Make sure to let us know what you find! This would be a good learning experience for everyone.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

i haven't done the swap either, but when my engine blew, i was forced to get a new motor, i talked to the engine installers, about a 3.4L swap, and the guy explained to me how it'd work, and it basically goes as Tom stated. Use the 3.4L block, if you want the bigger injectors use them too, but put your fuel injection back on, also use all your 2.8L wiring harnesses etc, on the 3.4L block. Now, if a 3.4L is DIS though, how would that work with the 2.8L's Distributor, a guy i knew had a 3.4L in his 94 camaro, when i popped the hood, i was lost, couldn't identify hardly a thing, it looked completely different and very cluttered. So, i'd check with the yard, make sure it's a 3.4L also, cause the 2.8/3.1/3.4 are all essentially the same block, i'd run the #'s off the block to make sure, cause he could be selling you a 3.1L, or another 2.8L and you'd never know the difference.

p.s. welcome to the board, and how many other 85 firebirds do you see in your area.

 

Lots of old 3 gen Birds & Camaros out here.
They don't rust.
They're throw away cars, cause no one wants them.

What I'm told now is to switch the old induction system with the 3.4 block, switch the timing chain cover/water pump and the harmonic balancer and run the old distributor.
Put the 3.4 injectors inside the 2.8 fuel rails.
Pretty much done, then.
This way, I can use the 2.8 ECM and distributor.
I am planning on doing this swap like the 3.4 long block that GM sells for the S-10 Blazer. Just put my induction system on it, "can" the 3.4 induction/ignition system. use the 3.4 injectors.

How cose am I to making this work?

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

hey..welcome to the board...im from Northridge..u got the 3.4 for how much and from which yard? For smog reasons for us..u wont be able to use some stuff..u'll have to reuse the 2.8 stuff to replace these things so CARB wont ever know about ur engine:
1) DIS...cant be used, have to convert to dist using ur old distribtor
2)induction...it says 3.4 on it, but also cant be used.Use old 2.8 intake.

If you dont replace those, ull have to get CARB approval and pay for the stickers etc which will be about 150 bucks on top of ur costs. Do it this way and dont have any problems!

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89 Firebird
2.8 V6 w/ t5 tranny (383 tpi t56 w/ ati 12/01)
Flowmaster 80 series, 3" Intermediate, SS Tips, Random Tech Cat, Msd Coil, MSD 6a, Accel 8.8 wires, Cold Air Intake w/ K&N, Lakewood LCA's, Brushed aluminum Hood pins ETC...
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

Hey Graeme,
I'm over by the Santa Monica Pier area.
MY BIGGEST CONCERN is the 1985 ECM, now.
Sounds like, all I can get is basically a 3.4 long block and put all the 2.8 stuff on it and run with it.
My engines are coming from a warehouse.
I have an option of 5 engines, various milage & costs. All about $750 - $850.
Just not sure I can gamble on $800 compared to $200 to fix this current messed up engine, that ran perfect before I hurt it! !!

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

btw..was wondering what u did to it? cracked radiator and drove on it? something like that?

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89 Firebird
2.8 V6 w/ t5 tranny (383 tpi t56 12/01)
Flowmaster 80 series, 3" Intermediate, SS Tips, Random Tech Cat, Msd Coil, MSD 6a, Accel 8.8 wires, Cold Air Intake w/ K&N, Lakewood LCA's, Brushed aluminum Hood pins ETC...
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

The radiator was repaired, twice.
I pulled both times. This was prior to 1/1/01.
New Years Day, I did oil change. While down there, I tugged on hose, to put strap around it.
I must have loosened it and it burst off, about 1/2 North Sepulveda Pass.
Yep, that hill killed me, finally! It took 20 years, tho.
Couldn't see idiot light that bright sun, traffic was heavy usual.
Lousy morning, oh well.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Are the 3.4s CA legal? The crate engines I've seen Chevy selling say 49-state.

Don't know much about F-bodys, but the only exterior difference between the 2.8s and the 3.4s is that there is no spot for a mechanical fuel pump on the 3.4. Don't know if your 2.8 had an electric one to begin with, but if not, you'll need one.

Good luck.
Patrick
85 Cherokee 2.5L -> 3.1L (planned)

 

The idea is to redress a 3.4 block, mated to the 2.8 induction system, with the 2.8 ignition system, too.
I won't tell them. The engine will look 2.8 & run cleaner.
My current 2.8 is the multi port fuel injection, sans mechanical fuel pump.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

There really needs to be a techical artical on this swap, every time I get a chance to check the board it seems this has come up again. Anyways about the swap:

Unless you are some kind of wiz at swapping in computer systems you will not be using the 3.4L computer, ingnition or intake. The easiest way is to take the 3.4L block and HEADS and put the 2.8L intake on it with the 3.4L injectors(19lb), switch over all sensors from the 2.8 block to the 3.4 block in the same spots. Any old sensors from the 3.4L that aren't in the way can be left unconnected. You also need to swap the oil filter housings cause there are sensors on the 2.8L one, you'll either need to track down a new gasket for this piece or just make a new one with gasket material. Also you'll need to pull the plug where the distributor should be and put the distributor from your 2.8L there(the 3.4L does not have a distributor). You'll have to time it by sighting when the piston in one of the cylinders is at TDC and then tune it by ear, cause the 3.4L has no timing marks.

I think that about covers it, reason you can't use the 3.4L intake(other that needing to rig up the throttle lines) is that the rear portion of it blocks where the distributor should be.
-pods

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88' Sport Coupe W/ T's
2.8->3.4 5-speed, accel coil-8.8 wires w/ bosch platinums
black and silver, grey interior, w/ 95' cloth seats, 3way power driver

 

Pods,
THANKS FOR THE EXTRA TIPS!
NOW......
I only care about the balancer.
You say it has no timing marks.
I am trying to succede in redressing this 3.4 to look like a 2.8.

I am concerned with the flexplate and balancer issue.
Can I make the 3.4 balancer look like the regular 2.8? I do not doubt I can mark the balancer and grind in a timing mark, too.
I plan on swapping the entire timing chain cover over.
Am I ok with this plan?
My ultimate plan is to make this fool the eyes of the smog police. Passing the sniffer is easy, with this 3.4 engine, it'll run cleaner.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Don't worry about trying to make the balancer look the same, there is no way they'd figure out the it was a 3.4L by looking at it, unless they knew something about the engine and looked all around, the blocks look the same. Unless I pointed out a few things on my engine you'd never know it. I'd keep the timing chain on the engine no sense really changing it cause its probably in good shape still, your call.

You mentioned the flexplate, are you reffering to the balance of the engine? I've heard people mention that the engines are balanced differently(2.8 external, 3.4 internal) but I used my 2.8 flywheel and have had no problems on that one.
-pods

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88' Sport Coupe W/ T's
2.8->3.4 5-speed, accel coil-8.8 wires w/ bosch platinums
black and silver, grey interior, w/ 95' cloth seats, 3way power driver

 

Pods,
SO APPRECIATED FOR THE RESPONSE.
Can I cut a mark in the 3.4 balancer?
The reason why I am changing the timing chain, is the 2.8 has a new timing chain, as of 3,000 miles old.
Plus, I can swap old 2.8 cover & new water pump with 3.4 stuff. I can also use the 2.8 balancer mark.
Am I correct?
I also ask this simple question.
What is this plug?
I mean is this distributor plug a freeze plug item? Does it knock into the block?
Weds, I start taking off the heads. Exciting.

THANKS Pods
PS 2 items.
In CA smog tests, they sometimes test the timing marks, w/timing lights.
I have an automatic, using the 700R4.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

[This message has been edited by KED85 (edited January 09, 2001).]

 

Ked, glad you found out the info you needed.

I see absolutely no reason to put a used timing chain into a motor. You said yourself that you only paid $25 for it, and that it made a big difference in the way your motor ran. I say give the 3.4 a new chain, too. Chains are "supposed to be" replaced every 15,000- although that would be insane to do. It's just that the chain shows signs of wear by the 15k mark.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

The distributor plug is basically the lower shaft of a distributor with a flat top, it is held in place the same way a normal distributor is, it'll just slide out when you unbolt it. Your kinda on your own with the marks, not sure what you'd want to do about those, I think they make timing mark tape, but you'd still have to set it accurately.

And as I mentioned on your other post there is NO REASON TO REMOVE THE HEADS, you want to use the 3.4L heads, they are better and aside from no need to remove them, its a pain cleaning off the surfaces to regasket and in the end you may get a leak all for no reason.

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88' Sport Coupe W/ T's
2.8->3.4 5-speed, accel coil-8.8 wires w/ bosch platinums
black and silver, grey interior, w/ 95' cloth seats, 3way power driver

 

Hi Pods!
Gonna go thru with the swap.
Been working on a big block AC Cobra kit car engine swap
Took my 2.8 intake off & found lumps of coal!
FRIED!!!!!!!
In goes the 3.4!
Today is clean up & upgrade the 2.8 induction system.
THANKS FOR ALL THE TIPS, NOW TO USE THEM!!!

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Hi all,
I thought I'd offer an update on this swap.
The 2.8-in-disguise is in the engine bay.
All the stuff is swapped, awaiting to attach the bellhousing bolts, torque convertor, wiring harness, alternator, power steering pump. Drop in distributor.
The final things.
I can't wait!
What I'm curious about is if I will need a different in-tank fuel pump.
The 3.4 injectors are bigger. SAME fuel pressure regulator, tho. Identical part number.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

How much larger are the 3.4 injectors? According to a guy from the TPI board, the V6 2.8 pump puts out 16 gph at 50 PSI, where the V8 pump puts out 24gph at 50 PSI.

I don't know what the V6 3.4 pump puts out.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

I run the stock pump...
-pods

 

Hey Pods,
Can you keeps us updated on how the smog thing goes. You know how California is.

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90 Firebird SSA (Bone stock 3.1)

Everything Below I've added

Engine: Accel Super Coil, 8mm Accel Ignition Wires, 170 Degree Thermostat, NKG Plautum Plugs, K&N Filter, Flowmaster 80

Suspension: Bell Tech Drop Spindles, Edelbrock PanHard Bar, Lakewood Lower Control Arms, Wonderbar IROC-Z, KYB GR2 Struts, KYB Gas-a-Just Shocks, PST Suspension Polygrapite Bushings All Round, 36mm WS6 Front Sway Bar, 24mm WS6 Rear Sway Bar

Brakes: Cross Drilled and sloted Rotors

Appearance: Trans Am Tail Lights, Trans Am Wrap Around Wing, Trans Am 16" Alum rims, Tinted Windows Rear 90% Sides 50%

Interior: GTA power seats, Overhead console, Power windows, Power locks, T-tops, Sun shade, Pioneer P77DH, Uniden radar detector, Intellitronix - Fuel pressure gauge, Transmission temp gauge. (In pods)

 

Hi ALL!
I'm finally back & here to tell ya it lives and runs and is worth it!
ALl that extra torque!
I have to dial in the distributor as I set it by ear and such, to get it home.
One breakdown!
Melted the wire harness next to the EGR into the 2.8 intake, that caused a shut down while it cooled, then started.
I have valve ping, bad.
I had to readjust the 3.4 valves by a compressor tester!
The 3.4 valves are so sensative! I over adjusted an it & wouldn't start!
I highly recommend anyone do this!
So worth it!!
I already responded to 6 emails about this swap.
All I can say is DO IT!!!!
My hands hurt from wrenching & typing!
Can;t take the smile away!
All that torque & 20 + MPG!
I'll let ya know how it keeps going.
Bye!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

I have to tell ya,
I got this beast dialed in!
I replaced the Mass Airflow Sensor, disconnected the battery, tweaked the distributor a bit, by ear.
Closed the hood.
IT'S INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!! THIS THING FLIES LIKE A V-8.
And that is from one that owns a 1974 Corvette!
The new found torque throwns ya in the seat!
I'm still hauling around the old 2.8 blown engine, too!
I can't wait to unload all that dead weight!
The front end LEAPS!

No more lifter ping anymore, as it was a bad MAF.

I need to firm up the tranny!
I need to learn how to rebuild tranny's now.
I ain't paying about $1500 for one.
Who has a tranny rebuild video tape to make a copy of?

DO THIS SWAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BEST SWAP JOB I EVER DID!!!!!!!!
WORTH IT!!!!!!! Big time!
I can't wait to make my Cold Air Induction system, next!

100 MPH & 20+ MPG, here I come!!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

CA Smog legality. Checked with BAR, you can swap virtually any engine into any donor as long as the donor vehicle is newer than the recipient and all the emissions equipment from the donor vehicle is installed on the recipient. Only exception is no swapping truck engines into cars.

-Patrick
85 Cherokee 2.5L -> 3.1 or 3.4

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KED, you still have the 2.8 motor in the car? How the heck did you put it in there?


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

EASY!!
I took off heads & flex plate.
It fit in rear sink space, real easy.
I just turned it in, minus the piston with the hole and the cam and heads.
I plan on rebuilding the heads for my 2.8 in my S-10 Blazer.
I'm using the MPFI cam in the Blazer engine, too. I can swap it for $25. Getting new lifters, tho.
Then just freshen up the 2.8 Blazer bottom end, if I choose to.
I'm hoping to rebuild this Blazer engine, real cheap, about $300 or so.
I need a tranny in my Blazer, tho. Current tranny only offers me 1st & 3rd. 2nd gear clutches are gone, but gear is still ok.
Or else I'm gonna learn how to rebuild tranny's next.

Forgot emissions-

The comment is correct.
I did not use all the 3.4 stuff. I swapped the 2.8 intake onto the 3.4 block. I retro'd the 1995 3.4 block, to look exactly like a 1985 2.8 block.
Why?
I do not have to jump thru any hoops for emissions. I just go in & present it as a 1985 2.8 MPFI Pontiac Firebird. My, it runs strong & clean. Yeah, new timing chain! I point to new gaskets!
I keep quiet, save aggrivation.
I even left lots of stuff dirty & greasy covered to fool 'em. But, this smog guy is a real super great guy.
I just don't want aggrivation & have to possibly fork out $300 for a smog re-certification sticker/paperwork.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

[This message has been edited by KED85 (edited February 05, 2001).]

 

Wow, that 2.8 block must be dragging your car to the ground!


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

No not really.
It is a light little V-6.
But, I didn't carry it!
This lowered the rear end somewhat. It lifted up when it was finally removed at the wrecking yard where I purchased the 3.4 V-6.
I carried that 3.4 V-6 in my 1985 S-0 Blazer about a 100 mile trip to where I was repairing the Firebird.

Find this option and build this package.

FYI, I do have LOTS of 3.4 stuff, I will have for sale, as a one lump package. ALL CLEANED, gasket free, only 40K miles on the stuff (intake it media blasted, looks purty) going on ebay real soon.
My almost 5 month old consumes lots of rocket fuel.

Contact me for the 3.4 parts list.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

You could probably put the stuff for sale in the classifieds at the website in my signature- lots of 4th gen v6 guys over there.

------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

TOM
THANKS!
I just posted it.
I have several other spots to post it at, too.
I'm asking $200 for all this stuff & there is lots of it, too!
Only 40K on it & it's all clean (went thru the parts washer, except upper intake manifold).
It's all gasket free (I took off any gasket).
I even media blasted the bottom intake manifold.
Great score for some one and happy to pass it on for someones project!

THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR TIPS & SUCH! A BIG HELP!!

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA