Swapmaster

I found out that GM glues the runner tubes into the flanges. Does
anyone know what they glue them together with?

I have some stuff comming from Linweld that my salesman says
is used to repair aluminum and people have been using it to join
aluminum pieces together insted of welding and is supposed to
be machinable and tapable. Like JB or Devcon but made for
aluminum only.

Sound familiar?

tpi_roc

I know there are aluminum specific epoxies but I couldn't tell you the name of one, I doubt any work to much better than JB weld, so thats always an option

Swapmaster

What I got was a stuff called Lab Metal. Supposed to be drillable
and tapable. Supposed to have the same color as aluminum and
work like JB weld. I dont know but I will try a test piece this
weekend and see if I can break apart 2 pieces of aluminum glued
together with it. If it works, the sky's the limit on custom intake
manifolds.

Swapmaster

Lab Metal ain't the right stuff. It's like gutter sealer.
3M has a product called Scotch-Weld, and product# 2086 is a
thermal set aluminum filled epoxy made for joining aluminum.

It is a one part epoxy wich sets at 350deg in one hour.
I am going to order some tomorrow and test it. I have JB weld
and Loctite weld on two test pieces that I will torture this
weekend.

Here is a pic of one runner I have started.

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

Swapmaster what did you use to cut that runner?

Jza

I had that same exact idea. Glad to see there's someone else with the nuts to try something like that.

Swapmaster

Dremel with the cable attatchment and those thin little cut-off
wheels. The first cut down the length of a runner took 15 of those
little cut-off wheels. By the end of the fourth tube I made all 4
cuts on it with 4 cut-off wheels.

Here are some more pics. I will keep adding pics as I progress.
Once I get the runners done I will siamese the flanges to match
the runners.

Swapmaster

another

Swapmaster

It took 3 hours to do the first pair and 2 1/2 hour to do the
second pair. This weekend I will do the other side, should be
able to get it down to 1.5 or 2 hours per pair.

Swapmaster

another

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

nuts is right! I would never have done that, I thought about it but never could. can't wait to see them finished.

Swapmaster

Scrap the 3M epoxy idea. Just heard back from a supplier, it only
comes in one gallon and five gallon sizes. Price, get this, is $389
per gallon.

Anyone have any other thoughts on this subject?
I am going to need something to put these runners
back together with !!!

tpi_roc

A tig

Swapmaster

I know a guy with a TIG actually. I will have him take a look at it.

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

any updates on this?

Swapmaster

Actually I talked to the guy with the tig today and he said it
would take too much time and he didn't want to do it.

I also talked to one of the plant managers for Majors Plastics
today here in Omaha and he said they use Devcon to glue their
molds together with. They clean the surfaces with stainless steel
scuff pads and a cleaning agent, which he said is just laquer
thinner, smear on the Devcon then press the two halves together.

He also said to stick it together and heat it up with a 500* heat
gun to set the Devcon harder than normal and make it stick to
the aluminum better.

So that's what I will do when I get back to it again. Been screwing
with this flow bench too much, writing down instructions to post
up when I get building on it.

monte-ss

Damn swap do you have a real job or do you get to play with your toys all day? if so whats your secret, Im jealous! haha, I thought about doing what you did but instead of pinching the tubes together so it looks like a stock (sort of) runner I was going to take a flat piece and weld it to the outside edge so it would closely resemble a slp set up but based off of the stock runners.

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

so it can be done with a TIG welder it'll just take some time to do it.please keep me posted on how things go with the Devcon glue.

Swapmaster

It can be done with a tig but he had that DON'T MAKE ME DO IT,
raised eyebrow, half a$$ed grin, look on his face when he said
"it's gonna take a high degree of finesse to weld that".

He didn't even want to put a time on it. He just said it would take
forever.

I am going to try a test piece with Devcon in a day or two.

Swapmaster

A real job? What's that?

Aint had a real job for over a decade and don't want one.
39 years old and having more fun now than I ever had.

monte-ss

one other thing, if you are using those red disks on the dremel, toss those and get the fiber ones, they are slightly thicker but last a whole lot longer and are less prone to break if you bump them

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

i've been talking to a buddy of mine that is a service manager and a really good welder that wants to give it a whirl.he knows it'll take a long time but he said he could do it.

Swapmaster

The thin red disks worked ok for me. I ran them at just a little over
half throttle and took it easy. I used 2 disks per runner tube but
dut did break a bunch of them. Look at them wrong and they will
crumble.

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

keeping it fresh:lala:

Swapmaster

Hey bandit, has your guy had a chance to try welding them yet?
Mine are still in a box. I have been too busy to get back to them.

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

he wont be able to do it untill he gets a spool gun,which he plans on getting in the near.and from what i've heard their not cheap

Swapmaster

From what they have been telling me, it has to be TIG welded.
A spool gut is basically a hand held wire feed. It is fine for
1/4" or thicker stuff but you will burn through what we are
working with.

The TIG can do more delicate work but is more time consuming
they also fear burning through the runner with it as well.

You would think there should be an easy way to do this.

Bort62

Elmers.

duh.

Swapmaster

News flash.

I gave a couple of the scrap runner pieces to a radiator shop
down the street. He didn't see any problem at all. I should have
thought of it before but they weld aluminum radiator headers
together which is less than half as thick as our runners.

He is going to zap them together and bring them back to see if
it looks good to me. If it looks good I will finish my filler pieces
and let him weld them together.

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

do they braze the peices together or do they weld them?what do they use?

Ed Maher

Good thinking though. You might want to try making some endplates for the runners to see if they leak. Just get some sheetmetal, mark / drill the holes and nut/bolt them on with some rtv, put a hole in one and fill it with water / something. Hell, if you were bored you could put a pipe fitting / nippple on it and test it with a vacuum pump

Swapmaster

Ok, I just came back from a radiator supply store where I bought
some low temp (500/600) aluminum brazing rods with special low
temp flux made for repairing aluminum radiators.

This may be it. I will braze the outside of the runners this
weekend and post up some pics.

I would be nice if this stuff works.

JMatlock88

Ask John Millican what he uses to fill his LT1 intake bolt holes. It could be JB weld, but I think he uses something Aluminum specific. It is a cold hardening epoxy because he is always talking about warping avoidance.

Swapmaster

Well, it worked.

Swapmaster

another

Swapmaster

and another

Swapmaster

It's not easy but then again I have never braised with aluminum
rods before. It is real easy to blow a hole in the runners though.
I burned 4 holes in different places about the size of a pea but
it was easy to bridge and fill them back up.

Well now to grind and file them down to make them all nice
looking again then it is on to the inside pieces.

By the way, how do you put multiple pictures in one post?

Bort62

Sweet My man!

What Gas did you use to braze those ?

as far as the posting... You need to find some webhost someplace.

For Cool projects like this, you can email me pictures if you like, and I will post em

Swapmaster

I used an oxy/acetylene torch with a welding tip on it. The first
several inches looks real bad, a bunch of globs and crap but then
once you go a little bit it lays down nice.

Bort62

Oh **** so you had it HOT then ?

What if you used Propane ? Less chance of busting through the ally..

Altho that seems to work, Ill assume a MAP cylinder would work, too.

Swapmaster

I tried propane first but it did not get hot enough. I did a test
piece by brazing two 1" squares together with propane and it
worked very well but it did not work with the runner. I think
the runner as a whole, acted as a giant heat sink and the
propane could not get an area hot enough to accept the flux.

You need to use acetylene and get it pretty hot. I burned through
because I was trying to push the aluminum around with the flame
but it don't flow at all.

72LT1VETTE

JB weld nor Lab Metal are considered adhesives. They are both used as crack fillers or sealers. Both work very well for intended use. Lab metal has one type in a blue and white can that is rated at 1000 degrees.
You may play hell when you start to bolt everything together. Aluminum transfers heat so well you will more than likely warp the flanges welding on the cover plates. TIG welding uses a non-flammable gas (usually Argon) to concentrate the heat to a small area for the metel to flow.

Swapmaster

Here is a shot of the cleanup using a round file. It files just like
regular aluminum and goes fairly quick. I think I may smear JB
weld between the runners after I clean them up to fill all the pits
and voids to make a smooth paintable surface.

I figured I would have the flanges resurfaced to square them up
when I am done. The lab metal I have is in the red and white can.
I may use it instead of JB to smooth out the pits and stuff.

89 Iroc Z

That is Sweeeet. I can't wait to see a dyno on before and after with doing this to your runners. Do you have a dyno of before you did this to your runners to see the difference?

SATURN5

Looks good. Just curious..would it have been possible to weld from the backside of the runner? I may this fall siamese my runners and intake and work up my stock heads. thanks, Bob

Morley

I'm betting he is using a scotch-weld product (hehe from work) which you can get in quart kits and pint kits (one each of pt A & B) I don't think it would work very well on the runners, with bolt holes its easier because the surrounding metal will help keep it in place.

~M~

Swapmaster

I don't have dyno results. I joined them from the outside because
I may cut more of the center rib out later.

72LT1VETTE

If you read John's write up, you'll see that he uses JB weld! Lab metal (1000 degree) blue white can is better and made with Aluminum shavings. Have to order through an industrial supply store.

Morley

Check Eastwood, they have Lab Metal there, don't know if it is the same one but thats the name they sell it under.

~M~

72LT1VETTE

Make sure you get the 1000 degree type