DIY Prom'ing and a Stocker Final Answer
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Joined: Jun 2000
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
DIY Prom'ing and a Stocker Final Answer
Normal disclaimers, apply.
Off highway use, not to be attempted without Responsible Adult Supervision, etc etc.
I've been doing some tuning on my 91 GMC, 7.4L, 3/4t PU. 90K miles, and other then exhuast work is stock.
Intially it suffered from a light chuggle. ie too much EGR and too much timing, which just gave it a slight shurge/miss feel at light throttle just every once in a while.
Then too high of initial idle after starting, a chronic high idle, a slow return to idle, and too high of idle with the A/C on.
Typical mileage after replacing the normal maintance tune up parts was right at 11 MPG, in a combo of city/freeway and about 12 Hwy.
And a general lack of performance.
But, with a car and trailer, drivibility was not too bad, and at 70 MPH with the A/C on just under 10 MPG.
With that as a base line, I had a bung welded in fired up the WB and started driving to see what kind of AFR were involved. Wound up being a steady BL of 134 and an actual AFR of 14.7 ish.
Then turned off the EGR, and set the closed loop enable to 148dC.
In an effort to keep this reasonable in lenght.
I wound up setting the max timing limit to 32d, down 7d from stock.
Set the return to idle timer to 0.
Added almost 7% fuel in all the load VE locations.
Leaned out the overrun areas of the VE table.
Limited the cruise timing to 32d.
Reset the voltage to idle RPM correction.
Rest the IAC cold start park posistions.
changed the idle speeds.
Raised the Line Pressures 5 PSI (it's a PCM)
Set the TCC to apply in 3rd gear low TPS settings.
Leaned out WOT.
I now have,
an AFR of about 15.2 at a 55 MPH cruise
14.7 at 65
13.8 at 75
And get 15 MPG in the city/ highway mode.
The Truck now drives better then most EFI cars, and saves a huge amount in the fuel bill. Even at 12 to 15 MPG that's a 25% change.
And long term the tranny and engine will be lasting longer.
Not bad in my book.
I'm not impling everyone is going to get this kind of increase in mileage, but just to list a before and after of what can be done.
Just listing what worked for me with an all stock application, which in itself is a novelty....
HTH
Off highway use, not to be attempted without Responsible Adult Supervision, etc etc.
I've been doing some tuning on my 91 GMC, 7.4L, 3/4t PU. 90K miles, and other then exhuast work is stock.
Intially it suffered from a light chuggle. ie too much EGR and too much timing, which just gave it a slight shurge/miss feel at light throttle just every once in a while.
Then too high of initial idle after starting, a chronic high idle, a slow return to idle, and too high of idle with the A/C on.
Typical mileage after replacing the normal maintance tune up parts was right at 11 MPG, in a combo of city/freeway and about 12 Hwy.
And a general lack of performance.
But, with a car and trailer, drivibility was not too bad, and at 70 MPH with the A/C on just under 10 MPG.
With that as a base line, I had a bung welded in fired up the WB and started driving to see what kind of AFR were involved. Wound up being a steady BL of 134 and an actual AFR of 14.7 ish.
Then turned off the EGR, and set the closed loop enable to 148dC.
In an effort to keep this reasonable in lenght.
I wound up setting the max timing limit to 32d, down 7d from stock.
Set the return to idle timer to 0.
Added almost 7% fuel in all the load VE locations.
Leaned out the overrun areas of the VE table.
Limited the cruise timing to 32d.
Reset the voltage to idle RPM correction.
Rest the IAC cold start park posistions.
changed the idle speeds.
Raised the Line Pressures 5 PSI (it's a PCM)
Set the TCC to apply in 3rd gear low TPS settings.
Leaned out WOT.
I now have,
an AFR of about 15.2 at a 55 MPH cruise
14.7 at 65
13.8 at 75
And get 15 MPG in the city/ highway mode.
The Truck now drives better then most EFI cars, and saves a huge amount in the fuel bill. Even at 12 to 15 MPG that's a 25% change.
And long term the tranny and engine will be lasting longer.
Not bad in my book.
I'm not impling everyone is going to get this kind of increase in mileage, but just to list a before and after of what can be done.
Just listing what worked for me with an all stock application, which in itself is a novelty....
HTH
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Armpit state
Car: 71 Nova
Engine: Superramed 383, Topline heads
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 8.2 posi 3.08
"I wound up setting the max timing limit to 32d, down 7d from stock.
Set the return to idle timer to 0.
Added almost 7% fuel in all the load VE locations.
Leaned out the overrun areas of the VE table.
Limited the cruise timing to 32d.
Reset the voltage to idle RPM correction.
Rest the IAC cold start park posistions.
changed the idle speeds.
Raised the Line Pressures 5 PSI (it's a PCM)
Set the TCC to apply in 3rd gear low TPS settings.
Leaned out WOT."
I was wondering how each change affected the engine. Or did you do this all at once? I have no experience with a pcm so forgive me if this is a dumb question.
Set the return to idle timer to 0.
Added almost 7% fuel in all the load VE locations.
Leaned out the overrun areas of the VE table.
Limited the cruise timing to 32d.
Reset the voltage to idle RPM correction.
Rest the IAC cold start park posistions.
changed the idle speeds.
Raised the Line Pressures 5 PSI (it's a PCM)
Set the TCC to apply in 3rd gear low TPS settings.
Leaned out WOT."
I was wondering how each change affected the engine. Or did you do this all at once? I have no experience with a pcm so forgive me if this is a dumb question.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by shaggy56
"I wound up setting the max timing limit to 32d, down 7d from stock.
Set the return to idle timer to 0.
Added almost 7% fuel in all the load VE locations.
Leaned out the overrun areas of the VE table.
Limited the cruise timing to 32d.
Reset the voltage to idle RPM correction.
Rest the IAC cold start park posistions.
changed the idle speeds.
Raised the Line Pressures 5 PSI (it's a PCM)
Set the TCC to apply in 3rd gear low TPS settings.
Leaned out WOT."
I was wondering how each change affected the engine. Or did you do this all at once? I have no experience with a pcm so forgive me if this is a dumb question.
"I wound up setting the max timing limit to 32d, down 7d from stock.
Set the return to idle timer to 0.
Added almost 7% fuel in all the load VE locations.
Leaned out the overrun areas of the VE table.
Limited the cruise timing to 32d.
Reset the voltage to idle RPM correction.
Rest the IAC cold start park posistions.
changed the idle speeds.
Raised the Line Pressures 5 PSI (it's a PCM)
Set the TCC to apply in 3rd gear low TPS settings.
Leaned out WOT."
I was wondering how each change affected the engine. Or did you do this all at once? I have no experience with a pcm so forgive me if this is a dumb question.
One change at a time.
While you might change the timing in two very different areas on on given, burn, you have to keep each change isolated so one item doesn't mask what a second change may be doing.
For the new guys, you have to get used to taking notes, and making critical notations of what's going on. ie as you get a couple hundred chips under your belt you can fudge some on what your doing, but it takes lots of notes and driving to condition yourself to divource the I think this is better out of the equation. The ego can be really really misleading. Typically leading you to having too much timing and too much fuel which gives the engine a peppy feeling but in many cases wastes gas, and knocks the top rings out of the motor.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 1
From: Armpit state
Car: 71 Nova
Engine: Superramed 383, Topline heads
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 8.2 posi 3.08
"The sentence preceeding what you quoted explains that I was trying to keep the posting short."
It would be nice to know these things though. But I guess something I will have to stumble upon myself. Im sure like you say after many burns then things will start to make sense and problems will be easier to recognize.
It would be nice to know these things though. But I guess something I will have to stumble upon myself. Im sure like you say after many burns then things will start to make sense and problems will be easier to recognize.
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From: West Des Moines, IA
Car: 2008.5 Mazdaspeed 3 GT
Engine: 2.3 DISI Turbo
Transmission: 6 speed MT
I really wish we had PCM to be able to change line pressure on the trans. That would really firm up some shifts, especially on a high mileage vehicle.
Interesting to note rather high mileage increase though from a fairly stock vehicle. When I got 15 city stock, then crashed to 13 city after the cam swap and injector bumble, then back to 17 city after adding new (to me) injectors, then changing the lock up points and timing tables, I thought I was doing pretty good. Impressive Grumpy!
Interesting to note rather high mileage increase though from a fairly stock vehicle. When I got 15 city stock, then crashed to 13 city after the cam swap and injector bumble, then back to 17 city after adding new (to me) injectors, then changing the lock up points and timing tables, I thought I was doing pretty good. Impressive Grumpy!
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From: Chasing Electrons
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally posted by bnoon
I really wish we had PCM to be able to change line pressure on the trans. That would really firm up some shifts, especially on a high mileage vehicle.
I really wish we had PCM to be able to change line pressure on the trans. That would really firm up some shifts, especially on a high mileage vehicle.
It is amazing what a little calibration tweaking to an otherwise stock setup can do. The cal guys don't always get every engine/vehicle combo dead on. One of the reasons the manufacturers like MAF setups. . . (did I bring up MAF's???!!).
RBob.
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,844
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From: Maryland
Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
You mentioned setting the C/L enable to 148d C. So - I take it you are running full Open Loop and not taking advantage of the BLM/INT correction routines?
Tim
Tim
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Joined: Jun 2000
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by TRAXION
You mentioned setting the C/L enable to 148d C. So - I take it you are running full Open Loop and not taking advantage of the BLM/INT correction routines?
You mentioned setting the C/L enable to 148d C. So - I take it you are running full Open Loop and not taking advantage of the BLM/INT correction routines?
By running open loop, I can run the AFR ratios that, the engine likes, rather then having to settle for Stoich. At 55 where the aero loading is less, I run leaner then at 75. No sense wasting fuel to run stoich when lean will work. And by the same token running rich, when a lil extra in cylinder cooling is benefical.
On a side note,
I'm at 13.2: AFR commanded in PE, now, and no knock detected.
Just to toss some numbers into the arena.
When doing cruise timing, I usually use steps of 2d.
When change VE's and I have things roughed in I work in 2% increments, when roughing things in I might go 5% at a time.
When doing line pressure mod, 3 PSI increments.
Lock to unlock MPH I try to keep at 4-5 MPH.
Another side advantage that I like to optimise, with the PCM'd cars and trucks is the WOT shift point, especially in first gear. For most stock and near stock, short shifting first gear usually winds up being quickest.
Again, thou, YMMV.
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Joined: Oct 1999
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Car: 91 Red Sled
Axle/Gears: 10bolt Richmond 3.73 Torsen
Originally posted by Grumpy
Another side advantage that I like to optimise, with the PCM'd cars and trucks is the WOT shift point, especially in first gear. For most stock and near stock, short shifting first gear usually winds up being quickest.
Another side advantage that I like to optimise, with the PCM'd cars and trucks is the WOT shift point, especially in first gear. For most stock and near stock, short shifting first gear usually winds up being quickest.
. I used to have no launching abilities with the 245's, lowered with no LCA brackets, and stock torqe converter. The problem with the TC wasn't so much the fact that it was tight but that it pulled the motor down REALLY far from it's powerband. To correct this and keep the 245 street tires I did the following: 2800 stall, 3.73 gears (actually hurts the launch with the 700r4 1st gear), LCA brackets, and short shift at 4400rpm. The stall converter and the short shift really keep the motor above 3000rpm with solid traction. Of course I still need to roll onto the throttle (damn those 245's) but with a short shift I can ride 2nd gear with the 3.73's for all that it's worth. Definatly worth a try no matter what your cars abilities (exc. slicks). Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Maryland
Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
Originally posted by Grumpy
I don't see the advantage.
I don't see the advantage.
I think this is a bad idea on a stock vehicle that is close to a daily driver. We always talk about all the R&D that goes into the GM ECM and it's programming. The BLM / INT are there for a reason. They are there to correct the fueling issues that will pop-up over time. They can also help deal with different gas-related issues. I do not recommend this for a stock, daily driver. Open loop, IMHO, has a specific place. For example - low LSA camshafts where the overlap wreaks havoc on O2 readings. But, if the only purpose is to dial in different AFRs at various speeds then I would put forth that the long term benefits of BLM/INT on a STOCK vehicle are much more important than running those different AFRs. There's more here than just dialing in VE. Outside Temp, coolant temp, altitude, etc. all play a part. Tune your car in open loop above sea level in warm weather and take it for a long drive to below sea level with cold temps and then you will be running very lean (unless of course you accounted for ALL of those conditions in your open loop tuning by driving across the USA at different times of the year ... while running the WB O2 logging data the entire way).
One of the arguments for keeping GM ECMs over the aftermarket ECMs is the extras like the BLM routines. I would much rather reset the stoichiometric AFR, adjust the O2 boundaries, and then run highway mode .... than to completely negate the BLM routines on a stock daily driver. Open loop has its place ... and I don't believe that this is one of them.
Tim
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by TRAXION
I don't agree and I want to put this in perspective for other people reading those comments.
I think this is a bad idea on a stock vehicle that is close to a daily driver. We always talk about all the R&D that goes into the GM ECM and it's programming. The BLM / INT are there for a reason. They are there to correct the fueling issues that will pop-up over time. They can also help deal with different gas-related issues. I do not recommend this for a stock, daily driver. Open loop, IMHO, has a specific place. For example - low LSA camshafts where the overlap wreaks havoc on O2 readings. But, if the only purpose is to dial in different AFRs at various speeds then I would put forth that the long term benefits of BLM/INT on a STOCK vehicle are much more important than running those different AFRs. There's more here than just dialing in VE. Outside Temp, coolant temp, altitude, etc. all play a part. Tune your car in open loop above sea level in warm weather and take it for a long drive to below sea level with cold temps and then you will be running very lean (unless of course you accounted for ALL of those conditions in your open loop tuning by driving across the USA at different times of the year ... while running the WB O2 logging data the entire way).
One of the arguments for keeping GM ECMs over the aftermarket ECMs is the extras like the BLM routines. I would much rather reset the stoichiometric AFR, adjust the O2 boundaries, and then run highway mode .... than to completely negate the BLM routines on a stock daily driver. Open loop has its place ... and I don't believe that this is one of them.
Tim
I don't agree and I want to put this in perspective for other people reading those comments.
I think this is a bad idea on a stock vehicle that is close to a daily driver. We always talk about all the R&D that goes into the GM ECM and it's programming. The BLM / INT are there for a reason. They are there to correct the fueling issues that will pop-up over time. They can also help deal with different gas-related issues. I do not recommend this for a stock, daily driver. Open loop, IMHO, has a specific place. For example - low LSA camshafts where the overlap wreaks havoc on O2 readings. But, if the only purpose is to dial in different AFRs at various speeds then I would put forth that the long term benefits of BLM/INT on a STOCK vehicle are much more important than running those different AFRs. There's more here than just dialing in VE. Outside Temp, coolant temp, altitude, etc. all play a part. Tune your car in open loop above sea level in warm weather and take it for a long drive to below sea level with cold temps and then you will be running very lean (unless of course you accounted for ALL of those conditions in your open loop tuning by driving across the USA at different times of the year ... while running the WB O2 logging data the entire way).
One of the arguments for keeping GM ECMs over the aftermarket ECMs is the extras like the BLM routines. I would much rather reset the stoichiometric AFR, adjust the O2 boundaries, and then run highway mode .... than to completely negate the BLM routines on a stock daily driver. Open loop has its place ... and I don't believe that this is one of them.
Tim
Only trouble is that it isn't. Might be for some applications, but it's not universally true.
And your also making the assumption that all code allows for a highway mode, which isn't true.
Like I said in the opening post, this is what I have done. So while others might just want to follow the crowd, and it's an exercise in what one CAN do. Which was the point of me starting this thread.
Closed Loop does have it's place. But as implimented on the 3rd gens, it's a primitive form. And when it's all based on a single sensor, it seems marginal, at best to me.
And for those that want to further brush up on the subject matter you might look up some of the threads where RBob talks about MAT and the 8746. Which is a TBI system and as what I've referenced to here. And takes alot of weather conditions out of the equation.
And just to repeat mentioning it, I added an addition bung, and am running a WB.
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Anyone done any code patches to allow using a WB O2 to allow running closed loop at whatever the engine / driver wants? A little bit of code that would take the WB reading and simulate a NB with it. So you tell your patch you want 13.2 AFR, and when the WB is reading 13.2 it simulates the NB at stoich.
I started out wondering how difficult it would be to add a circuit to the DIY WB to simulate a NB. Of course a code patch would be better.
Also note, I am a mere mortal, and doing either of these things is 1000 light years beyond my present capability.:hail:
Mike
I started out wondering how difficult it would be to add a circuit to the DIY WB to simulate a NB. Of course a code patch would be better.
Also note, I am a mere mortal, and doing either of these things is 1000 light years beyond my present capability.:hail:
Mike
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From: Johnstown, Ohio
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 355 (fastburn heads, LT4 HOT cam)
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt, 3.27
Nova, that's exactly what I've been thinking about! I wish I knew enough of the code to do something like that, or even know if it can be done! I was even trying to think of how to describe what I had in mind!
I wish I had all my stuff going to be able to work on this stuff!
Where can I get a disassembler/assembler to start working with code?
I wish I had all my stuff going to be able to work on this stuff!
Where can I get a disassembler/assembler to start working with code?
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2000
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by novakm
Anyone done any code patches to allow using a WB O2 to allow running closed loop at whatever the engine / driver wants?
I started out wondering how difficult it would be to add a circuit to the DIY WB to simulate a NB. Of course a code patch would be better.
Anyone done any code patches to allow using a WB O2 to allow running closed loop at whatever the engine / driver wants?
I started out wondering how difficult it would be to add a circuit to the DIY WB to simulate a NB. Of course a code patch would be better.
If you do all you do is replace Stoich with another fixed AFR.
Open loop, allows optimzing the AFR depending for a given condition.
And with the closed loop function, your target AFR is just toggled across, as opposed to being maintained.
Now, if you had a table of say 16x16 locations that you could program for different AFRs, and redundancy in sensors that would be another matter.
But, we're going off on a tangent.
I was hoping to archive a thread that was aimed at what one could do or expect from just working with a stocker.
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Again, just what works in this application.
WB was used to verify proper AFR along with plug reading.
Off Road use only.
I did a back to bad comparision with a stock memcal.
These calibration changes resulted in a lower TPS value in cruise, a leaner AFR in light cruise, and used less timing. At the higher cruise speeds the cal does go richer then Stoih.. If anyone sees any downsides to using less air and fuel to make a given HP, please explain that to me. Not to mention using less timing.
This is conjunction with my previous posts on this thread about the details of tuning a stocker.
So,
This is what the before and afters of the main fuel and timing tables look like on my truck.
*************
VE Table
Before
*************
Low K/Pa----> 100 K/Pa
52.3 56.6 56.6 60.2 60.2 65.2 66.4 67.2 70 74 78 83 Low RPM
52.3 56.6 56.6 60.2 60.2 65.2 66.4 67.2 70.7 74.2 78.1 83.6
53.1 53.1 64.5 61.7 65.2 69.1 70.3 75.8 78.1 80.1 83.2 80.1
53.1 63.3 71.1 69.9 76.2 76.6 81.3 83.6 87.5 89.5 89.8 85.9
53.5 70.3 73.4 75.0 79.7 81.3 82.8 88.7 91.4 92.6 93.8 84.8
63.3 72.3 81.3 81.3 85.9 82.8 85.9 90.6 92.6 93.8 94.5 87.1
63.3 75.0 81.3 81.3 84.4 85.2 85.9 91.4 93.4 95.3 96.5 90.6
63.3 71.9 81.3 81.3 84.4 85.9 86.7 91.8 93.0 94.5 96.5 92.6
59.0 70.3 81.3 82.8 85.2 85.5 87.9 90.2 91.8 93.0 97.7 92.6
53.9 67.6 78.1 81.3 83.6 84.0 88.3 89.8 91.0 92.2 95.3 86.7
53.9 58.6 76.6 78.9 83.6 84.8 87.5 88.7 89.1 90.6 85.9 86.7
52.7 66.4 66.4 76.2 76.2 80.1 80.1 80.1 85.9 84.0 84.4 84.0
60.2 68.4 68.4 72.3 72.3 78.1 78.1 80.1 85 85 84 87 High RPM
************
VE Table
After
************
53.5 58.6 58.6 58.5 58.5 59.3 64.8 68.8 72.7 75.4 79.7 85.5
53.5 58.6 58.6 58.5 58.5 59.3 64.8 68.8 72.7 75.4 79.7 85.5
52.7 52.7 58.2 58.5 58.5 59.3 64.8 77.3 79.3 81.3 84.0 81.3
52.7 52.7 79.0 82.9 84.0 84.4 86.7 87.5 89.1 87.1 87.9 84.8
39.8 47.7 80.1 88.3 89.1 89.5 89.8 90.2 90.6 91.0 93.4 85.2
39.8 48.8 81.6 90.2 91.0 92.2 93.0 93.4 93.8 94.1 96.1 89.1
39.8 49.6 82.4 90.2 91.0 92.2 93.4 94.1 94.5 94.9 96.1 93.0
39.8 49.6 84.0 90.6 91.4 92.2 93.8 94.1 94.5 94.9 96.1 94.9
39.8 49.6 84.0 91.4 91.4 91.8 91.8 92.2 92.6 93.0 96.1 94.9
39.8 49.6 83.2 87.5 88.3 89.1 91.4 91.8 92.2 92.2 96.1 93.8
39.8 47.7 80.1 86.7 88.3 89.5 91.0 91.4 91.8 91.0 93.0 93.8
39.8 47.7 80.5 86.3 86.3 89.5 89.1 89.5 89.1 89.8 91.0 91.8
52.0 49.6 79.7 82.0 82.0 88.3 88.7 87.9 89.4 90.8 91.2 91.2
************
Timing Table
Before
************
Low K/Pa--- 100K/Pa
22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 13 12 10 10 9 9 Low RPM
20 20 20 20 20 20 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
20 20 20 20 20 20 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 16 16 16 14 14 14 14
22 22 22 22 21 21 21 17 16 14 14 14 14 14 14
29 41 41 34 25 22 22 21 20 17 17 17 17 17 17
34 41 41 35 29 26 22 22 22 20 19 19 19 19 19
36 41 41 39 35 30 26 25 23 22 20 17 17 17 17
39 41 41 39 36 33 29 27 23 22 20 19 19 19 19
41 41 41 41 40 35 29 28 28 26 22 17 17 17 17
43 43 41 40 40 36 29 28 28 26 23 17 17 17 17
45 45 41 41 40 36 29 28 28 26 25 19 19 19 19
45 45 41 41 40 36 29 28 28 26 22 19 19 19 19 High RPM
*************
Timing Table
After
*************
22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 13 12 10 10 9 9
20 20 20 20 20 20 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
20 20 20 20 20 20 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
18 19 23 23 23 21 20 20 16 16 16 14 14 14 14
16 17 28 28 28 25 22 19 16 14 14 14 14 14 14
14 16 34 34 29 25 23 22 21 20 20 20 20 20 20
15 19 34 34 32 27 24 22 22 21 21 21 21 21 21
15 19 34 34 32 28 26 24 23 22 22 21 21 21 21
15 19 34 34 32 28 26 25 23 22 22 22 22 22 22
15 19 34 34 32 28 25 23 22 22 22 21 21 21 21
19 19 34 34 32 28 25 23 22 22 22 21 21 21 21
19 19 34 34 32 28 25 23 23 23 22 22 22 22 22
19 19 34 34 32 28 25 23 22 22 22 22 22 22 22
This represents numberous chips, and test drives, and is not meant as a universal answer, or as an answer to even an identical truck.
And again, is just what tuning a stock CAN involve.
And some ideas of things you MIGHT look at.
And again small changes one atta time.
Give the engine what it wants.
All the while remembering that in Seat of the Pants Testing Too much timing and too much fuel feels good.
Just to shed some light on the too much timing too much fuel item, you can extract more HP running that way, BUT, it's at the expense of using the extra fuel and early ignition timing, into FOOLING the engine that it thinks it has more compression then it actually does. Ya gotta keep in the back of your head that the whole deal revolves around having the peak cylinder pressure at like 8-14d after top dead center.
WB was used to verify proper AFR along with plug reading.
Off Road use only.
I did a back to bad comparision with a stock memcal.
These calibration changes resulted in a lower TPS value in cruise, a leaner AFR in light cruise, and used less timing. At the higher cruise speeds the cal does go richer then Stoih.. If anyone sees any downsides to using less air and fuel to make a given HP, please explain that to me. Not to mention using less timing.
This is conjunction with my previous posts on this thread about the details of tuning a stocker.
So,
This is what the before and afters of the main fuel and timing tables look like on my truck.
*************
VE Table
Before
*************
Low K/Pa----> 100 K/Pa
52.3 56.6 56.6 60.2 60.2 65.2 66.4 67.2 70 74 78 83 Low RPM
52.3 56.6 56.6 60.2 60.2 65.2 66.4 67.2 70.7 74.2 78.1 83.6
53.1 53.1 64.5 61.7 65.2 69.1 70.3 75.8 78.1 80.1 83.2 80.1
53.1 63.3 71.1 69.9 76.2 76.6 81.3 83.6 87.5 89.5 89.8 85.9
53.5 70.3 73.4 75.0 79.7 81.3 82.8 88.7 91.4 92.6 93.8 84.8
63.3 72.3 81.3 81.3 85.9 82.8 85.9 90.6 92.6 93.8 94.5 87.1
63.3 75.0 81.3 81.3 84.4 85.2 85.9 91.4 93.4 95.3 96.5 90.6
63.3 71.9 81.3 81.3 84.4 85.9 86.7 91.8 93.0 94.5 96.5 92.6
59.0 70.3 81.3 82.8 85.2 85.5 87.9 90.2 91.8 93.0 97.7 92.6
53.9 67.6 78.1 81.3 83.6 84.0 88.3 89.8 91.0 92.2 95.3 86.7
53.9 58.6 76.6 78.9 83.6 84.8 87.5 88.7 89.1 90.6 85.9 86.7
52.7 66.4 66.4 76.2 76.2 80.1 80.1 80.1 85.9 84.0 84.4 84.0
60.2 68.4 68.4 72.3 72.3 78.1 78.1 80.1 85 85 84 87 High RPM
************
VE Table
After
************
53.5 58.6 58.6 58.5 58.5 59.3 64.8 68.8 72.7 75.4 79.7 85.5
53.5 58.6 58.6 58.5 58.5 59.3 64.8 68.8 72.7 75.4 79.7 85.5
52.7 52.7 58.2 58.5 58.5 59.3 64.8 77.3 79.3 81.3 84.0 81.3
52.7 52.7 79.0 82.9 84.0 84.4 86.7 87.5 89.1 87.1 87.9 84.8
39.8 47.7 80.1 88.3 89.1 89.5 89.8 90.2 90.6 91.0 93.4 85.2
39.8 48.8 81.6 90.2 91.0 92.2 93.0 93.4 93.8 94.1 96.1 89.1
39.8 49.6 82.4 90.2 91.0 92.2 93.4 94.1 94.5 94.9 96.1 93.0
39.8 49.6 84.0 90.6 91.4 92.2 93.8 94.1 94.5 94.9 96.1 94.9
39.8 49.6 84.0 91.4 91.4 91.8 91.8 92.2 92.6 93.0 96.1 94.9
39.8 49.6 83.2 87.5 88.3 89.1 91.4 91.8 92.2 92.2 96.1 93.8
39.8 47.7 80.1 86.7 88.3 89.5 91.0 91.4 91.8 91.0 93.0 93.8
39.8 47.7 80.5 86.3 86.3 89.5 89.1 89.5 89.1 89.8 91.0 91.8
52.0 49.6 79.7 82.0 82.0 88.3 88.7 87.9 89.4 90.8 91.2 91.2
************
Timing Table
Before
************
Low K/Pa--- 100K/Pa
22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 13 12 10 10 9 9 Low RPM
20 20 20 20 20 20 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
20 20 20 20 20 20 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 16 16 16 14 14 14 14
22 22 22 22 21 21 21 17 16 14 14 14 14 14 14
29 41 41 34 25 22 22 21 20 17 17 17 17 17 17
34 41 41 35 29 26 22 22 22 20 19 19 19 19 19
36 41 41 39 35 30 26 25 23 22 20 17 17 17 17
39 41 41 39 36 33 29 27 23 22 20 19 19 19 19
41 41 41 41 40 35 29 28 28 26 22 17 17 17 17
43 43 41 40 40 36 29 28 28 26 23 17 17 17 17
45 45 41 41 40 36 29 28 28 26 25 19 19 19 19
45 45 41 41 40 36 29 28 28 26 22 19 19 19 19 High RPM
*************
Timing Table
After
*************
22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 13 12 10 10 9 9
20 20 20 20 20 20 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
20 20 20 20 20 20 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
18 19 23 23 23 21 20 20 16 16 16 14 14 14 14
16 17 28 28 28 25 22 19 16 14 14 14 14 14 14
14 16 34 34 29 25 23 22 21 20 20 20 20 20 20
15 19 34 34 32 27 24 22 22 21 21 21 21 21 21
15 19 34 34 32 28 26 24 23 22 22 21 21 21 21
15 19 34 34 32 28 26 25 23 22 22 22 22 22 22
15 19 34 34 32 28 25 23 22 22 22 21 21 21 21
19 19 34 34 32 28 25 23 22 22 22 21 21 21 21
19 19 34 34 32 28 25 23 23 23 22 22 22 22 22
19 19 34 34 32 28 25 23 22 22 22 22 22 22 22
This represents numberous chips, and test drives, and is not meant as a universal answer, or as an answer to even an identical truck.
And again, is just what tuning a stock CAN involve.
And some ideas of things you MIGHT look at.
And again small changes one atta time.
Give the engine what it wants.
All the while remembering that in Seat of the Pants Testing Too much timing and too much fuel feels good.
Just to shed some light on the too much timing too much fuel item, you can extract more HP running that way, BUT, it's at the expense of using the extra fuel and early ignition timing, into FOOLING the engine that it thinks it has more compression then it actually does. Ya gotta keep in the back of your head that the whole deal revolves around having the peak cylinder pressure at like 8-14d after top dead center.
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From: Johnstown, Ohio
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 355 (fastburn heads, LT4 HOT cam)
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Grumpy,
What octane fuel are you running? I know that has to make a difference considering the burn time is different, and that would put the peak cylinder pressure at a different point in crank revolution. From your experience, how much does octane play into the mix? Is it really any better to run a higher octane (I would think it would require, or allow? more timing) or is tuning with the basic 87 octane gonna get you the same results. In keeping with the topic, stock setup is what I'm looking at.
What octane fuel are you running? I know that has to make a difference considering the burn time is different, and that would put the peak cylinder pressure at a different point in crank revolution. From your experience, how much does octane play into the mix? Is it really any better to run a higher octane (I would think it would require, or allow? more timing) or is tuning with the basic 87 octane gonna get you the same results. In keeping with the topic, stock setup is what I'm looking at.
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
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Originally posted by JP84Z430HP
Grumpy,
What octane fuel are you running? I know that has to make a difference considering the burn time is different, and that would put the peak cylinder pressure at a different point in crank revolution. From your experience, how much does octane play into the mix? Is it really any better to run a higher octane (I would think it would require, or allow? more timing) or is tuning with the basic 87 octane gonna get you the same results. In keeping with the topic, stock setup is what I'm looking at.
Grumpy,
What octane fuel are you running? I know that has to make a difference considering the burn time is different, and that would put the peak cylinder pressure at a different point in crank revolution. From your experience, how much does octane play into the mix? Is it really any better to run a higher octane (I would think it would require, or allow? more timing) or is tuning with the basic 87 octane gonna get you the same results. In keeping with the topic, stock setup is what I'm looking at.
Just as the owners manual recommends, since this is a stock setup.
The lower octanes need less timing, since they seem to be somewhat faster burning.
Now for a car, that's being dialed in I always use premium.
Difference being is the rpm range, and need to extract HP.
With a truck application, you're looking at running at high throttle openings at peak torque for the ocassional heavy duty application. In that case being at 3K RPM, you have all the time in the world to play with optimizing the timing, and fuel. In batch fire mode at 3K you have 20 msec for a crank event where as in a car appl at 6K you only have 10. And running at peak torque is when your running at your best BSFC numbers.
As you start running the rpm then you have less time for a crank referenced event so ignition timing becomes alot more critical, and that can influence the octane you want to run.
If you want to really get into reading Pye, Glass, and Ricardo, they seem to all hint around the fact that the spark is just to avalanche a reaction already in the making.
But, octane aside, I generally like running the premium fuels because of the detergent packages, they generally run ALOT cleaner then the low octane stuff. I've had some real high mileage engines come apart with a min of carbon build up when running premium fuels only. While it was years ago, I had one that after 50K miles on tear down, I could literary have cleaned the pistons and chambers off with a toothbrush, the carbon was so thin.
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On both VE tables you posted there seems to be the same issue with higher pressure, less vol eff. That's complete 
. We had come to an assumption that GM did it for speed control in the 8746 cop car applications but what about your application? I don't know what else is in the calibration but if you were to look at the vol eff tables at direct values and not even include the PE afr's I would have to say that some GM engineers were smoking something strong that day.
Given any shape port in the world, given low everything else static non variable and the only difference being air pressure you could bet your house that higher pressure would flow more air, hence a higher vol eff, less pressure and lower vol eff. I've talked to a few honda engineers in charge of both engine internals (cars), and actual programming of the ecm's (cars also) and both of them couldn't give me an explination.
My conclusion is that GM did tuning with PE more than the vol eff tables to get there PE tuning dialed in. They must think that after a certain period of time being in PE that eventually the AFR would decrease (from the lower vol eff numbers) and then slow the vehicle down a bit.
Wouldn't you think GM would be worried about the engine internals from doing this? I'm stumped, some answers from the actual GM engineers might be the next step.
. We had come to an assumption that GM did it for speed control in the 8746 cop car applications but what about your application? I don't know what else is in the calibration but if you were to look at the vol eff tables at direct values and not even include the PE afr's I would have to say that some GM engineers were smoking something strong that day.Given any shape port in the world, given low everything else static non variable and the only difference being air pressure you could bet your house that higher pressure would flow more air, hence a higher vol eff, less pressure and lower vol eff. I've talked to a few honda engineers in charge of both engine internals (cars), and actual programming of the ecm's (cars also) and both of them couldn't give me an explination.
My conclusion is that GM did tuning with PE more than the vol eff tables to get there PE tuning dialed in. They must think that after a certain period of time being in PE that eventually the AFR would decrease (from the lower vol eff numbers) and then slow the vehicle down a bit.
Wouldn't you think GM would be worried about the engine internals from doing this? I'm stumped, some answers from the actual GM engineers might be the next step.
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From: Chasing Electrons
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Need to remember that SA is torque control, AFR keeps pistons alive. July 1989 Car Craft. Cop Car Shootout: Calif' '89 Caprice against '89 Rustang. Interesting part: Caprice exhaust: cast iron manifolds, 2.0" intermediate, reverse flow muffler, 2.0" tail pipe.
This is the kind of stuff that kills the VE. With a single 2" exhaust the length of the Caprice, it is dying. Performance: 16.90 @ 81.1 MPH in 1/4 mile. Car weight is 3710 lb. Top speed 122 MPH, observed.
Anyone know what heads this engine would have on it? It is the 9C1 package. Swirls? (I would hope not).
An '89 Caprice will be running ANLU. HP is 190 @ 4400 RPM, 285 ft/lb @ 2400 RPM. Of course it is a 5.7L running 9.3CR.
The good part is that it has some decent brakes. 11.86" front rotors with 11" rear drums.
RBob.
This is the kind of stuff that kills the VE. With a single 2" exhaust the length of the Caprice, it is dying. Performance: 16.90 @ 81.1 MPH in 1/4 mile. Car weight is 3710 lb. Top speed 122 MPH, observed.
Anyone know what heads this engine would have on it? It is the 9C1 package. Swirls? (I would hope not).
An '89 Caprice will be running ANLU. HP is 190 @ 4400 RPM, 285 ft/lb @ 2400 RPM. Of course it is a 5.7L running 9.3CR.
The good part is that it has some decent brakes. 11.86" front rotors with 11" rear drums.
RBob.
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Car: 1991 RS
Engine: 305 TBI
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If you don't use your seat of the pants impression to tune, how do you decide if a given change is a good one or a bad one? How did you decide on your afr or timing?
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by Homer
If you don't use your seat of the pants impression to tune, how do you decide if a given change is a good one or a bad one? How did you decide on your afr or timing?
If you don't use your seat of the pants impression to tune, how do you decide if a given change is a good one or a bad one? How did you decide on your afr or timing?
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
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Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by JPrevost
On both VE tables you posted there seems to be the same issue with higher pressure, less vol eff. That's complete .
On both VE tables you posted there seems to be the same issue with higher pressure, less vol eff. That's complete
. Usually VE will begin to drop from continued WOT. Especially on full exhaust system'd cars. That and with a stock cam, I doubt that it would at best only flash to a only a moderately high MAP value.
Remember this is about a stock truck, application, and a heavy duty package at that. It's meant to run thru the mountains with a 8,500# GVW, which is going to be somewhat different tune then what a modified car would like.
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From: Johnstown, Ohio
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 355 (fastburn heads, LT4 HOT cam)
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt, 3.27
Originally posted by Grumpy
Not really.
Usually VE will begin to drop from continued WOT. Especially on full exhaust system'd cars.
Not really.
Usually VE will begin to drop from continued WOT. Especially on full exhaust system'd cars.
How long would it take for this drop in VE to occur? This may shed some light into what I'm dealing with. I could unhook the very restrictive stock type exhaust after the "converter" to see how it responds.....
Amazing how the depth of the info on this board has to do with more the mechanics and physics of an engine than just the sheer electronics side of it. Without a pretty good understanding of the engine, the electronics would be useless!
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From: Johnstown, Ohio
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 355 (fastburn heads, LT4 HOT cam)
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt, 3.27
Also, Could this possibly be added to Grumpy's Sticky list? Some really good info in this post.
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
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Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by JP84Z430HP
How long would it take for this drop in VE to occur? This may shed some light into what I'm dealing with. I could unhook the very restrictive stock type exhaust after the "converter" to see how it responds.....
Amazing how the depth of the info on this board has to do with more the mechanics and physics of an engine than just the sheer electronics side of it. Without a pretty good understanding of the engine, the electronics would be useless!
How long would it take for this drop in VE to occur? This may shed some light into what I'm dealing with. I could unhook the very restrictive stock type exhaust after the "converter" to see how it responds.....
Amazing how the depth of the info on this board has to do with more the mechanics and physics of an engine than just the sheer electronics side of it. Without a pretty good understanding of the engine, the electronics would be useless!
Gotta remember also what I said earlier about timing and fuel.
When you add alot of fuel you are in effect raising the compression ratio. So when you hammer the gas and you have all that AE fuel you have a few extra HP, and the engine will try to act larger then it really is, and you'll see the MAP spike. As you run out of AE the you can see it dip. This also accounts for how some engines spike so high on a flash type dyno run. But, that was another thread.
And this is a real short explaination for what can take chapters to explain in detail.
A converter is a major cork in the system.
And depending on how restrictive the cat back is there are a number of other things that will be effected.
Would be interesting to document thou what you do see. Just remember you'll be leaning things out some.
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From: great lakes
the only insight i can offer on your kpa spikes is that what your seeing isnt really real. theres an overshoot in the map sensor when you get a realy fast drop in pressure it will still try to keep extedning teh diaprgrham in the transducer. its only an anomoly.
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
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Originally posted by TRAXION
Outside Temp, coolant temp, altitude, etc. all play a part. Tune your car in open loop above sea level in warm weather and take it for a long drive to below sea level with cold temps and then you will be running very lean (unless of course you accounted for ALL of those conditions in your open loop tuning by driving across the USA at different times of the year ... while running the WB O2 logging data the entire way).
Outside Temp, coolant temp, altitude, etc. all play a part. Tune your car in open loop above sea level in warm weather and take it for a long drive to below sea level with cold temps and then you will be running very lean (unless of course you accounted for ALL of those conditions in your open loop tuning by driving across the USA at different times of the year ... while running the WB O2 logging data the entire way).
AFRs this morning were dead on, according to the WB.
Seems like in this application, ie stock, with the thermac part of the Air Cleaner intact, is keeping AFRs well in hand.
And if the BL corrections are toward lean, in some codes they're not applied in WOT, so when the info might be of most benefit, it's ignored anyway.
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From: Eh?
Car: 1988 Monte Carlo SS
Engine: 5.7L TPI
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Grumpy, do you disable CCP when running open loop? Do you re-enable when the tuning is done? I would like to hear your thoughts on how you deal with this part of the system when running open loop. Thanks!
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From: In reality
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Originally posted by MonteCarSlow
Grumpy, do you disable CCP when running open loop? Do you re-enable when the tuning is done? I would like to hear your thoughts on how you deal with this part of the system when running open loop. Thanks!
Grumpy, do you disable CCP when running open loop? Do you re-enable when the tuning is done? I would like to hear your thoughts on how you deal with this part of the system when running open loop. Thanks!
While the tank might get slightly pressurized the intial opening of the CCP fairly quickly bleeds it down. From what I've seen usually while the engine still has some extra timing first start timing going on.
It's also pretty much a constant that's accounted for with the summer and winter brews of fuel.
It's another of the much to do about nothing items, IMO. Can it change the BL some?, yes, enough to matter and make a real difference?, not that I've seen.
In the past I've left it on, when tuning, street stuff. I've also considered +- 4-6 on the BL as close enough.
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From: In reality
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Originally posted by Grumpy
Just as an update, while I was doing the intial tuning it was about 85-95dF. This morning was 42dF.
AFRs this morning were dead on, according to the WB.
Just as an update, while I was doing the intial tuning it was about 85-95dF. This morning was 42dF.
AFRs this morning were dead on, according to the WB.
To reinstate the AFRs, took dropping the BPC from 142 to 139.
Looks like the oem idea of leaning the mixture out ever so slightly due to the increase in backpressure holds water.
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
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Originally posted by Grumpy
And amazingly the new data supports what I said some months ago about injector sizing.
{old info} The GN calibration runs the injectors static.
The 8D calibration has them going static at about 3,500.
The Syclone cal has them going static at about 3,800 RPM.
At 3,475 you can hear the injectors go erratic with the 8D code.
Now, if your trying to run the code in the stock manner, on an engine that makes 10% more HP then stock you need an injector sized 10% larger. As well as for any increase of HP.
Earlier in the posting I mentioned how leaning down WOT improved the performance of the truck. Big surprise, after seeing now rich the oems are at WOT?, not to me.
You can fight and argue all you want, but if you want to use things in the stock format, then you need to follow the design principles they used. Or you wind up with problems. Like the temp compensation, is wrong. Or huge swings in the BL over seemingly little changes. Their all due to improper injection selection.
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From: the garage
Car: 84 SVO
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Heres a log of run in the Malibu. For those that may like to see what Grumpy is referring too.
Code:
TPS V Idle RPM Speed O2 R/L INT BLM Bank IAC Baro MAP A:F TPS MAT V KnkR KnkC BatV Spark H2O MAT 4.49 850 1800 0 0.18 0 128 128 12 199 0.81 1.5 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.4 8.8 85.3 53 4.49 850 2150 0 0.2 0 128 128 13 199 0.81 1.59 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.5 8.4 85.3 53 4.49 850 2150 0 0.2 0 128 128 13 199 0.81 1.59 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.5 8.4 85.3 53 4.49 850 2225 6 0.21 0 128 128 14 199 0.81 1.65 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.2 8.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 2225 6 0.21 0 128 128 14 199 0.81 1.65 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.2 8.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 2450 14 0.22 0 128 128 14 199 0.81 1.7 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.5 8.8 85.3 53 4.49 850 2450 14 0.22 0 128 128 14 199 0.81 1.7 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.5 8.8 85.3 53 4.49 850 2775 15 0.23 0 128 128 15 199 0.81 1.76 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.2 10.5 85.3 53 4.49 850 2775 15 0.23 0 128 128 15 199 0.81 1.76 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.2 10.5 85.3 53 4.49 850 2775 29 0.23 0 128 128 15 253 0.81 1.78 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.3 10.5 85.3 53 4.49 850 2775 29 0.23 0 128 128 15 253 0.81 1.78 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.3 10.5 85.3 53 4.49 850 3075 17 0.23 0 128 128 16 237 0.81 1.81 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 11.6 85.3 53 4.49 850 3075 17 0.23 0 128 128 16 237 0.81 1.81 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 11.6 85.3 53 4.49 850 3400 29 0.23 0 128 128 16 221 0.81 1.82 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.2 13.7 85.3 53 4.49 850 3400 29 0.23 0 128 128 16 221 0.81 1.82 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13.2 13.7 85.3 53 4.49 850 3625 23 0.23 0 128 128 16 205 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 13.4 85.3 53 4.49 850 3625 23 0.23 0 128 128 16 205 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 13.4 85.3 53 4.49 850 3800 31 0.22 0 128 128 17 189 0.81 1.84 10 100 2.35 0 5116 12.9 15.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 3800 31 0.22 0 128 128 17 189 0.81 1.84 10 100 2.35 0 5116 12.9 15.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 3875 30 0.2 0 128 128 16 173 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 14.8 85.3 53 4.49 850 3875 30 0.2 0 128 128 16 173 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 14.8 85.3 53 4.49 850 4125 34 0.18 0 128 128 17 157 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 4125 34 0.18 0 128 128 17 157 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 4075 35 0.13 0 128 128 17 141 0.81 1.84 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.8 85.3 53 4.49 850 4075 35 0.13 0 128 128 17 141 0.81 1.84 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.8 85.3 53 4.49 850 4025 27 0.09 0 128 128 16 125 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.5 85.3 53 4.49 850 4025 27 0.09 0 128 128 16 125 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.5 85.3 53 4.49 850 4050 39 0.09 0 128 128 16 109 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 4050 39 0.09 0 128 128 16 109 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 3975 25 0.08 0 128 128 16 93 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.5 85.3 53 4.49 850 3975 25 0.08 0 128 128 16 93 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.5 85.3 53 4.49 850 4075 41 0.08 0 128 128 16 77 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 14.8 85.3 53 4.49 850 4075 41 0.08 0 128 128 16 77 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 14.8 85.3 53 4.49 850 4050 31 0.09 0 128 128 16 61 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 4050 31 0.09 0 128 128 16 61 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 4000 39 0.11 0 128 128 17 45 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.5 85.3 53 4.49 850 4000 39 0.11 0 128 128 17 45 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.5 85.3 53 4.49 850 4225 31 0.13 0 128 128 16 29 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 4225 31 0.13 0 128 128 16 29 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53 4.49 850 4200 38 0.16 0 128 128 16 13 0.81 1.84 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.8 85.3 53 4.49 850 4200 38 0.16 0 128 128 16 13 0.81 1.84 10 100 2.35 0 5116 13 15.8 85.3 53 4.49 850 4000 31 0.18 0 128 128 17 2 0.81 1.83 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 15.8 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4000 31 0.18 0 128 128 17 2 0.81 1.83 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 15.8 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4050 36 0.21 0 128 128 16 18 0.81 1.84 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 14.8 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4050 36 0.21 0 128 128 16 18 0.81 1.84 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 14.8 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 3975 31 0.24 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.83 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 14.8 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 3975 31 0.24 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.83 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 14.8 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 3800 31 0.25 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 14.4 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 3800 31 0.25 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 14.4 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 3925 32 0.27 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.83 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 3925 32 0.27 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.83 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4175 32 0.28 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 15.5 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4175 32 0.28 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 15.5 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 3975 37 0.28 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13.1 15.1 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 3975 37 0.28 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13.1 15.1 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4050 32 0.31 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 14.8 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4050 32 0.31 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 14.8 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4175 42 0.31 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4175 42 0.31 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4500 32 0.3 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13.1 15.5 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4500 32 0.3 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13.1 15.5 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4375 43 0.3 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4375 43 0.3 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.33 0 5116 13 15.1 85.3 53.4 4.49 850 4350 34 0.3 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.31 0 5116 13.1 15.1 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4350 34 0.3 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.31 0 5116 13.1 15.1 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4475 41 0.3 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.31 0 5116 13.1 15.5 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4475 41 0.3 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.31 0 5116 13.1 15.5 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4400 39 0.3 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.31 0 5116 13.1 15.5 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4400 39 0.3 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.31 0 5116 13.1 15.5 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4475 40 0.28 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.31 0 5116 13.1 15.1 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4475 40 0.28 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.31 0 5116 13.1 15.1 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4575 38 0.29 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.31 0 5116 13 15.5 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4575 38 0.29 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.31 0 5116 13 15.5 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4500 40 0.28 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.31 2.5 5230 13.1 14.1 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4500 40 0.28 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.31 2.5 5230 13.1 14.1 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4700 41 0.27 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.98 10 100 2.31 2.3 5230 13.1 15.1 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4700 41 0.27 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.98 10 100 2.31 2.3 5230 13.1 15.1 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4850 39 0.26 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.31 5.1 5362 13.1 14.8 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4850 39 0.26 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.31 5.1 5362 13.1 14.8 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4575 41 0.27 0 128 128 18 32 0.81 2 10 100 2.31 7 5468 13.1 13.7 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4575 41 0.27 0 128 128 18 32 0.81 2 10 100 2.31 7 5468 13.1 13.7 85.3 53.8 4.49 850 4700 40 0.26 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.97 10 100 2.29 9.7 5601 13 15.1 85.3 54.1 4.49 850 4700 40 0.26 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.97 10 100 2.29 9.7 5601 13 15.1 85.3 54.1 4.49 850 4375 41 0.27 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 2.29 9.3 5601 13 15.5 85.3 54.1 4.49 850 4375 41 0.27 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 2.29 9.3 5601 13 15.5 85.3 54.1 4.49 850 4375 41 0.27 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 2.29 12.1 5736 13 14.8 85.3 54.1 4.49 850 4375 41 0.27 0 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 2.29 12.1 5736 13 14.8 85.3 54.1 4.49 850 3600 43 0.29 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.29 11.6 5853 13.1 13.4 85.3 54.1 4.49 850 3600 43 0.29 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.29 11.6 5853 13.1 13.4 85.3 54.1 4.49 850 3150 46 0.28 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.8 10 100 2.29 11.6 5853 13.1 10.9 85.3 54.1 4.49 850 3150 46 0.28 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.8 10 100 2.29 11.6 5853 13.1 10.9 85.3 54.1 4.49 850 3400 41 0.35 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.81 10 100 2.27 10.5 5853 13.1 12 85.3 54.5 4.49 850 3400 41 0.35 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.81 10 100 2.27 10.5 5853 13.1 12 85.3 54.5 4.49 850 3425 49 0.34 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.79 10 100 2.27 10.5 5853 13.1 12.7 85.3 54.5 4.49 850 3425 49 0.34 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.79 10 100 2.27 10.5 5853 13.1 12.7 85.3 54.5 4.49 850 3350 43 0.34 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.8 10 100 2.27 9.5 5853 13.1 12.3 85.3 54.5 4.49 850 3350 43 0.34 0 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.8 10 100 2.27 9.5 5853 13.1 12.3 85.3 54.5 4.49 850 3350 49 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.81 10 100 2.27 9.5 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 54.5 4.49 850 3350 49 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.81 10 100 2.27 9.5 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 54.5 4.49 850 3525 44 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.8 10 100 2.27 8.6 5853 13 13.4 85.3 54.5 4.49 850 3525 44 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.8 10 100 2.27 8.6 5853 13 13.4 85.3 54.5 4.49 850 3600 49 0.35 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.81 10 100 2.25 8.6 5853 13 13.7 85.3 54.9 4.49 850 3600 49 0.35 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.81 10 100 2.25 8.6 5853 13 13.7 85.3 54.9 4.49 850 3675 47 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.82 10 100 2.25 7.9 5853 13 13.4 85.3 54.9 4.49 850 3675 47 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.82 10 100 2.25 7.9 5853 13 13.4 85.3 54.9 4.49 850 3700 49 0.35 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.82 10 100 2.25 7.9 5853 13 13.7 85.3 54.9 4.49 850 3700 49 0.35 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.82 10 100 2.25 7.9 5853 13 13.7 85.3 54.9 4.49 850 3725 49 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.82 10 100 2.25 7.2 5853 13 14.1 85.3 54.9 4.49 850 3725 49 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.82 10 100 2.25 7.2 5853 13 14.1 85.3 54.9 4.49 850 3625 51 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.25 7.2 5853 13 14.8 85.3 54.9 4.49 850 3625 51 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.25 7.2 5853 13 14.8 85.3 54.9 4.49 850 3775 51 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.24 6.7 5853 13 14.1 85.3 55.3 4.49 850 3775 51 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.24 6.7 5853 13 14.1 85.3 55.3 4.49 850 3800 52 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.24 6.7 5853 13 15.1 85.3 55.3 4.49 850 3800 52 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.24 6.7 5853 13 15.1 85.3 55.3 4.49 850 3775 52 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.24 6.2 5853 13 14.4 85.3 55.3 4.49 850 3775 52 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.24 6.2 5853 13 14.4 85.3 55.3 4.49 850 3875 53 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.24 6.2 5853 13 14.8 85.3 55.3 4.49 850 3875 53 0.34 2 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.24 6.2 5853 13 14.8 85.3 55.3 4.49 850 3825 54 0.36 3 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.24 5.8 5853 13 15.8 85.3 55.3 4.49 850 3825 54 0.36 3 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.24 5.8 5853 13 15.8 85.3 55.3 4.49 850 3950 54 0.37 3 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.22 5.8 5853 13 14.8 85.3 55.6 4.49 850 3950 54 0.37 3 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.22 5.8 5853 13 14.8 85.3 55.6 4.49 850 4125 56 0.37 3 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.22 5.4 5853 13 14.1 85.3 55.6 4.49 850 4125 56 0.37 3 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.22 5.4 5853 13 14.1 85.3 55.6 4.49 850 3925 56 0.4 3 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.22 5.4 5853 13 14.8 85.3 55.6 4.49 850 3925 56 0.4 3 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.22 5.4 5853 13 14.8 85.3 55.6 4.49 850 4200 57 0.4 3 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.22 5.1 5853 13 14.4 85.3 55.6 4.49 850 4200 57 0.4 3 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.22 5.1 5853 13 14.4 85.3 55.6 4.49 850 4075 56 0.41 3 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.22 5.1 5853 13 14.8 85.3 55.6 4.49 850 4075 56 0.41 3 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.22 5.1 5853 13 14.8 85.3 55.6 4.49 850 4125 59 0.41 3 128 128 13 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 2.2 4.9 5853 13 15.1 85.3 56 4.49 850 4125 59 0.41 3 128 128 13 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 2.2 4.9 5853 13 15.1 85.3 56 4.49 850 4350 57 0.4 3 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.2 4.9 5853 13 14.8 85.3 56 4.49 850 4350 57 0.4 3 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.2 4.9 5853 13 14.8 85.3 56 4.49 850 4150 60 0.38 3 128 128 11 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.2 4.7 5853 13 15.1 85.3 56 4.49 850 4150 60 0.38 3 128 128 11 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.2 4.7 5853 13 15.1 85.3 56 4.49 850 4375 59 0.36 3 128 128 31 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 2.2 4.7 5853 13.1 14.8 85.3 56 4.49 850 4375 59 0.36 3 128 128 31 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 2.2 4.7 5853 13.1 14.8 85.3 56 4.49 850 4225 60 0.34 4 128 128 11 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.18 4.6 5853 13 15.1 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4225 60 0.34 4 128 128 11 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.18 4.6 5853 13 15.1 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4225 60 0.32 4 128 128 13 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.18 4.6 5853 13.1 14.8 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4225 60 0.32 4 128 128 13 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.18 4.6 5853 13.1 14.8 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4250 62 0.29 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.18 4.4 5853 13 14.4 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4250 62 0.29 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.18 4.4 5853 13 14.4 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4400 60 0.28 4 128 128 5 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 2.18 4.4 5853 13.1 14.1 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4400 60 0.28 4 128 128 5 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 2.18 4.4 5853 13.1 14.1 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4200 63 0.27 4 128 128 11 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.18 4.2 5853 13.1 14.1 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4200 63 0.27 4 128 128 11 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.18 4.2 5853 13.1 14.1 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4325 62 0.26 4 128 128 11 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.18 4.2 5853 13 14.1 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4325 62 0.26 4 128 128 11 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.18 4.2 5853 13 14.1 85.3 56.4 4.49 850 4350 63 0.25 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.16 4 5853 13.1 14.4 85.3 56.8 4.49 850 4350 63 0.25 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.16 4 5853 13.1 14.4 85.3 56.8 4.49 850 4525 62 0.24 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 2.16 4 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 56.8 4.49 850 4525 62 0.24 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 2.16 4 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 56.8 4.49 850 4400 64 0.22 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 2.16 3.9 5853 13 13.7 85.3 56.8 4.49 850 4400 64 0.22 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 2.16 3.9 5853 13 13.7 85.3 56.8 4.49 850 4375 63 0.22 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 2.16 3.9 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 56.8 4.49 850 4375 63 0.22 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 2.16 3.9 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 56.8 4.49 850 4325 65 0.21 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 2.16 3.7 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 56.8 4.49 850 4325 65 0.21 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 2.16 3.7 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 56.8 4.49 850 4475 64 0.2 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.14 3.7 5853 13.1 14.1 85.3 57.3 4.49 850 4475 64 0.2 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.14 3.7 5853 13.1 14.1 85.3 57.3 4.49 850 4550 66 0.2 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.14 3.5 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.3 4.49 850 4550 66 0.2 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 2.14 3.5 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.3 4.49 850 4650 64 0.19 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.14 3.5 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.3 4.49 850 4650 64 0.19 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.14 3.5 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.3
Last edited by SATURN5; Oct 10, 2003 at 12:35 PM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,612
Likes: 0
From: the garage
Car: 84 SVO
Engine: Volvo headed 2.3T
Transmission: WCT5
Axle/Gears: 8.8" 3.73
Code:
TPS V Idle RPM Speed O2 R/L INT BLM Bank IAC Baro MAP A:F TPS MAT V KnkR KnkC BatV Spark H2O MAT 4.49 850 4675 67 0.17 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.14 3.3 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.3 4.49 850 4675 67 0.17 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.14 3.3 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.3 4.49 850 4450 65 0.16 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 2.14 3.3 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.3 4.49 850 4450 65 0.16 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 2.14 3.3 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.3 4.49 850 4450 67 0.15 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.12 3.2 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.7 4.49 850 4450 67 0.15 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.12 3.2 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.7 4.49 850 4525 66 0.15 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.12 3.2 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.7 4.49 850 4525 66 0.15 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.12 3.2 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.7 4.49 850 4700 67 0.14 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.12 3 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.7 4.49 850 4700 67 0.14 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.12 3 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.7 4.49 850 4800 66 0.13 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.12 3 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.7 4.49 850 4800 66 0.13 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.12 3 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.7 4.49 850 4475 68 0.12 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.12 2.8 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.7 4.49 850 4475 68 0.12 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 2.12 2.8 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 57.7 4.49 850 4600 67 0.11 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 2.1 2.8 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 58.1 4.49 850 4600 67 0.11 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 2.1 2.8 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 58.1 4.49 850 4650 68 0.11 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 2.1 2.6 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 58.1 4.49 850 4650 68 0.11 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 2.1 2.6 5853 13.1 13.7 85.3 58.1 4.49 850 4550 67 0.12 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 2.1 8.8 6145 13 13.4 85.3 58.1 4.49 850 4550 67 0.12 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 2.1 8.8 6145 13 13.4 85.3 58.1 4.49 850 4500 68 0.14 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 2.1 11.6 6304 13.1 13.7 85.3 58.1 4.49 850 4500 68 0.14 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 2.1 11.6 6304 13.1 13.7 85.3 58.1 4.49 850 4600 67 0.1 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 2.1 11.6 6304 13 13.7 85.3 58.1 4.49 850 4600 67 0.1 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 2.1 11.6 6304 13 13.7 85.3 58.1 4.49 850 4375 67 0.1 4 128 128 18 32 0.81 2.02 10 100 2.08 12.1 6554 13.1 13.7 85.3 58.5 4.49 850 4375 67 0.1 4 128 128 18 32 0.81 2.02 10 100 2.08 12.1 6554 13.1 13.7 85.3 58.5 4.49 850 4425 67 0.09 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.08 12.7 6692 12.9 13.7 85.3 58.5 4.49 850 4425 67 0.09 4 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 2.08 12.7 6692 12.9 13.7 85.3 58.5 4.45 850 4300 68 0.08 4 128 128 18 32 0.81 1.98 10 100 2.08 12.7 6803 13.1 13.4 85.3 58.5 4.45 850 4300 68 0.08 4 128 128 18 32 0.81 1.98 10 100 2.08 12.7 6803 13.1 13.4 85.3 58.5 2.06 850 3750 68 0.25 4 128 128 12 38 0.81 1.3 10 45 2.08 12.7 6803 13.1 16.5 85.3 58.5 2.06 850 3750 68 0.25 4 128 128 12 38 0.81 1.3 10 45 2.08 12.7 6803 13.1 16.5 85.3 58.5 1.69 850 3225 70 0.4 5 128 128 12 37 0.81 1.39 10 33 2.06 11.4 6803 13.3 17.2 85.3 59 1.69 850 3225 70 0.4 5 128 128 12 37 0.81 1.39 10 33 2.06 11.4 6803 13.3 17.2 85.3 59 4.14 850 3400 67 0.37 5 128 128 15 35 0.81 1.77 10 100 2.06 11.4 6803 13 14.8 85.3 59 4.14 850 3400 67 0.37 5 128 128 15 35 0.81 1.77 10 100 2.06 11.4 6803 13 14.8 85.3 59 4.47 850 3450 71 0.36 7 128 128 16 34 0.81 1.82 10 100 2.06 10.4 6803 13 12.3 85.3 59 4.47 850 3450 71 0.36 7 128 128 16 34 0.81 1.82 10 100 2.06 10.4 6803 13 12.3 85.3 59 4.49 850 3450 69 0.36 7 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.06 10.4 6803 13 12.3 85.3 59 4.49 850 3450 69 0.36 7 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.85 10 100 2.06 10.4 6803 13 12.3 85.3 59 4.49 850 3400 70 0.37 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.04 9.5 6803 13 13.4 86 59.4 4.49 850 3400 70 0.37 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.04 9.5 6803 13 13.4 86 59.4 4.49 850 3600 71 0.36 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.04 9.5 6803 13 13 86 59.4 4.49 850 3600 71 0.36 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.04 9.5 6803 13 13 86 59.4 4.49 850 3600 71 0.36 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.04 8.8 6803 13.1 13 86 59.4 4.49 850 3600 71 0.36 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.86 10 100 2.04 8.8 6803 13.1 13 86 59.4 4.49 850 3650 72 0.37 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.02 8.8 6803 13 12.7 86 59.8 4.49 850 3650 72 0.37 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.02 8.8 6803 13 12.7 86 59.8 4.49 850 3650 72 0.37 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.02 8.1 6803 13 12.7 86 59.8 4.49 850 3650 72 0.37 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2.02 8.1 6803 13 12.7 86 59.8 4.49 850 3675 73 0.37 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.02 8.1 6803 13 13 86 59.8 4.49 850 3675 73 0.37 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.02 8.1 6803 13 13 86 59.8 4.49 850 3700 73 0.37 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.02 7.4 6803 13 13 86 59.8 4.49 850 3700 73 0.37 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 2.02 7.4 6803 13 13 86 59.8 4.49 850 3700 74 0.37 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 2 7.4 6803 13 13.4 86 60.2 4.49 850 3700 74 0.37 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 2 7.4 6803 13 13.4 86 60.2 4.49 850 3575 73 0.38 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 2 6.9 6803 13.1 13.7 86 60.2 4.49 850 3575 73 0.38 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 2 6.9 6803 13.1 13.7 86 60.2 4.49 850 3575 75 0.39 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 2 6.9 6803 13 13.7 86 60.2 4.49 850 3575 75 0.39 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 2 6.9 6803 13 13.7 86 60.2 4.49 850 3675 75 0.38 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2 6.3 6803 13.1 13.7 86 60.2 4.49 850 3675 75 0.38 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.87 10 100 2 6.3 6803 13.1 13.7 86 60.2 4.49 850 3725 75 0.38 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.98 6.3 6803 13.1 12.7 86 60.6 4.49 850 3725 75 0.38 9 128 128 16 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.98 6.3 6803 13.1 12.7 86 60.6 4.49 850 3850 76 0.38 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 1.98 5.8 6803 13.1 13 86 60.6 4.49 850 3850 76 0.38 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.88 10 100 1.98 5.8 6803 13.1 13 86 60.6 4.49 850 3700 76 0.38 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 1.98 5.8 6803 13.1 13 86 60.6 4.49 850 3700 76 0.38 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 1.98 5.8 6803 13.1 13 86 60.6 4.49 850 3875 77 0.38 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 1.98 5.3 6803 13 13.7 86 60.6 4.49 850 3875 77 0.38 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 1.98 5.3 6803 13 13.7 86 60.6 4.49 850 3775 77 0.39 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.96 5.3 6803 13 13.7 86 61.1 4.49 850 3775 77 0.39 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.96 5.3 6803 13 13.7 86 61.1 4.49 850 3725 78 0.39 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.96 4.9 6803 13.1 13.4 86 61.1 4.49 850 3725 78 0.39 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.96 4.9 6803 13.1 13.4 86 61.1 4.49 850 3825 77 0.4 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.96 4.9 6803 13 13 86 61.1 4.49 850 3825 77 0.4 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.96 4.9 6803 13 13 86 61.1 4.49 850 3950 79 0.41 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.96 4.6 6803 13.1 13 86 61.1 4.49 850 3950 79 0.41 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.96 4.6 6803 13.1 13 86 61.1 4.49 850 4000 78 0.4 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 1.96 4.6 6803 13 13 86 61.1 4.49 850 4000 78 0.4 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.89 10 100 1.96 4.6 6803 13 13 86 61.1 4.49 850 3975 80 0.41 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.94 4.2 6803 13.1 13.7 86 61.5 4.49 850 3975 80 0.41 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.94 4.2 6803 13.1 13.7 86 61.5 4.49 850 3875 79 0.42 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.94 4.2 6803 13.1 13 86 61.5 4.49 850 3875 79 0.42 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.94 4.2 6803 13.1 13 86 61.5 4.49 850 4050 81 0.43 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.94 3.9 6803 13.1 13 86 61.5 4.49 850 4050 81 0.43 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.94 3.9 6803 13.1 13 86 61.5 4.49 850 3925 80 0.43 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.94 3.9 6803 13.1 13 86 61.5 4.49 850 3925 80 0.43 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.94 3.9 6803 13.1 13 86 61.5 4.49 850 3850 82 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.94 3.7 6803 13 13.4 86 61.5 4.49 850 3850 82 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.94 3.7 6803 13 13.4 86 61.5 4.49 850 3950 80 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.92 3.7 6803 13.1 13.4 86 61.9 4.49 850 3950 80 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.92 3.7 6803 13.1 13.4 86 61.9 4.49 850 4125 84 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.92 3.5 6803 13 13 86 61.9 4.49 850 4125 84 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.92 3.5 6803 13 13 86 61.9 4.49 850 3875 81 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.92 3.5 6803 13 13.7 86 61.9 4.49 850 3875 81 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.92 3.5 6803 13 13.7 86 61.9 4.49 850 4000 84 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.92 3.3 6803 13.1 13.7 86 61.9 4.49 850 4000 84 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.92 3.3 6803 13.1 13.7 86 61.9 4.49 850 4175 81 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.92 3.3 6803 13.1 13 86 61.9 4.49 850 4175 81 0.44 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.92 3.3 6803 13.1 13 86 61.9 4.49 850 3925 84 0.43 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.9 3.2 6803 13.1 13.4 86 62.3 4.49 850 3925 84 0.43 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.9 10 100 1.9 3.2 6803 13.1 13.4 86 62.3 4.49 850 4175 83 0.42 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.9 3.2 6803 13 13.4 86 62.3 4.49 850 4175 83 0.42 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.9 3.2 6803 13 13.4 86 62.3 4.49 850 4050 85 0.4 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 1.9 3 6803 13 13.4 86.8 62.3 4.49 850 4050 85 0.4 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 1.9 3 6803 13 13.4 86.8 62.3 4.49 850 4050 84 0.42 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.9 3 6803 13.1 13 86.8 62.3 4.49 850 4050 84 0.42 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.9 3 6803 13.1 13 86.8 62.3 4.49 850 4225 86 0.38 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.9 2.8 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 62.3 4.49 850 4225 86 0.38 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.9 2.8 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 62.3 4.49 850 4000 84 0.37 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.9 2.8 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 62.3 4.49 850 4000 84 0.37 9 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.9 2.8 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 62.3 4.49 850 4275 86 0.34 10 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.88 2.6 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 62.8 4.49 850 4275 86 0.34 10 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.88 2.6 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 62.8 4.49 850 4225 85 0.32 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.88 2.6 6803 13 13.4 86.8 62.8 4.49 850 4225 85 0.32 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.91 10 100 1.88 2.6 6803 13 13.4 86.8 62.8 4.49 850 4225 87 0.29 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.88 2.5 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 62.8 4.49 850 4225 87 0.29 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.88 2.5 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 62.8 4.49 850 4150 86 0.26 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.88 2.5 6803 13 13.4 86.8 62.8 4.49 850 4150 86 0.26 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.88 2.5 6803 13 13.4 86.8 62.8 4.49 850 4125 88 0.21 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.88 2.3 6803 13 13.4 86.8 62.8 4.49 850 4125 88 0.21 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.88 2.3 6803 13 13.4 86.8 62.8 4.49 850 4150 86 0.17 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.86 2.3 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4150 86 0.17 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.86 2.3 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4175 88 0.15 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.86 2.1 6803 13 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4175 88 0.15 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.86 2.1 6803 13 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4175 87 0.13 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.86 2.1 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4175 87 0.13 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.92 10 100 1.86 2.1 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4175 89 0.11 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.86 1.9 6803 13 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4175 89 0.11 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.86 1.9 6803 13 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4200 88 0.1 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.86 1.9 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4200 88 0.1 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.86 1.9 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4200 89 0.09 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.86 1.8 6803 13 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4200 89 0.09 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.86 1.8 6803 13 13.4 86.8 63.3 4.49 850 4300 89 0.1 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.84 1.8 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4300 89 0.1 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.84 1.8 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4425 90 0.08 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.84 1.6 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4425 90 0.08 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.84 1.6 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4375 89 0.08 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.84 1.6 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4375 89 0.08 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.93 10 100 1.84 1.6 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4125 90 0.07 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.84 1.4 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4125 90 0.07 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.84 1.4 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4275 90 0.07 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.84 1.4 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4275 90 0.07 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.84 1.4 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4475 92 0.06 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.96 10 100 1.84 1.2 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4475 92 0.06 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.96 10 100 1.84 1.2 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4275 90 0.06 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 1.84 1.2 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4275 90 0.06 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 1.84 1.2 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 63.8 4.49 850 4375 92 0.06 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.82 1.1 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 64.3 4.49 850 4375 92 0.06 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.82 1.1 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 64.3 4.49 850 4200 90 0.05 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 1.82 1.1 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 64.3 4.49 850 4200 90 0.05 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.95 10 100 1.82 1.1 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 64.3 4.49 850 4300 93 0.05 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.82 0.9 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 64.3 4.49 850 4300 93 0.05 12 128 128 17 32 0.81 1.94 10 100 1.82 0.9 6803 13.1 13.4 86.8 64.3 3.06 850 4275 91 0.04 12 128 128 16 36 0.81 1.68 10 77 1.82 0.9 6803 13.1 16.9 86.8 64.3 3.06 850 4275 91 0.04 12 128 128 16 36 0.81 1.68 10 77 1.82 0.9 6803 13.1 16.9 86.8 64.3 0.59 850 3925 93 0.41 13 128 150 1 36 0.81 0.11 10 0 1.82 0.5 6803 13 18.3 86.8 64.3 0.59 850 3925 93 0.41 13 128 150 1 36 0.81 0.11 10 0 1.82 0.5 6803 13 18.3 86.8 64.3 0.59 850 3850 88 0.49 13 128 150 0 35 0.81 -0.1 10 0 1.82 0.5 6803 13.7 18.3 86.8 64.3
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 1
From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Well had a serious problem yesterday.
The darned EGR valve fell off.
yep, just plum fell off.
As good fortune would have it I just so happened to have 1/4" AL plate drilled and cut to shape to make a temporary repair.
Just prior to this happening I'd filled up and checked my mileage. It has turned cool here so the engine always get a full 2 min warmup in the first run of the day, most around town trips are 20 miles, and around town I got 12.8 MPG. Not bad considering the first couple tanks were about 9 MPG. I have a road trip coming up so it'll be interesting to see what the actual hauling mode MPG is.
And there were some interesting side effects.
Mind you this is with the EGR enable set to 304dF.
Less throttle opening for cruise.
Much crisper AE.
Less chatter of the indicated WOT AFR.
Interesting seeing this with a disabled devise, so these effects were A, due to the backpressure opening it, or B the lose of 4 ozs of road holding weight.
And in original form the truck had two cats and huge muffler vs the 18" Ultraflow it has now. I'll leave it to your imagination as to how much EGR there was with that set up. And the manifold, shows some real signs of dealing with ALOT of heat.
Being a TBi with the fuel falling on the butterfly, being able to operate at a lower throttle opening means the fuel is going to be more actively sheared. Which should help MPG even more, it'll be interesting to see how that pans out from theory to real life.
YMMV
Not to be attempted without adult supervision etc., etc..
The darned EGR valve fell off.
yep, just plum fell off.
As good fortune would have it I just so happened to have 1/4" AL plate drilled and cut to shape to make a temporary repair.
Just prior to this happening I'd filled up and checked my mileage. It has turned cool here so the engine always get a full 2 min warmup in the first run of the day, most around town trips are 20 miles, and around town I got 12.8 MPG. Not bad considering the first couple tanks were about 9 MPG. I have a road trip coming up so it'll be interesting to see what the actual hauling mode MPG is.
And there were some interesting side effects.
Mind you this is with the EGR enable set to 304dF.
Less throttle opening for cruise.
Much crisper AE.
Less chatter of the indicated WOT AFR.
Interesting seeing this with a disabled devise, so these effects were A, due to the backpressure opening it, or B the lose of 4 ozs of road holding weight.
And in original form the truck had two cats and huge muffler vs the 18" Ultraflow it has now. I'll leave it to your imagination as to how much EGR there was with that set up. And the manifold, shows some real signs of dealing with ALOT of heat.
Being a TBi with the fuel falling on the butterfly, being able to operate at a lower throttle opening means the fuel is going to be more actively sheared. Which should help MPG even more, it'll be interesting to see how that pans out from theory to real life.
YMMV
Not to be attempted without adult supervision etc., etc..
Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
When my EGR was bad, I noticed pinging. Did you have to change anything in the chip to make it run without the pinging?
I guess what I am saying is I know if I remove my EGR im goig to get ping. How should I compensate for this, since I am assuming no egr means more combustion temp, shoudl I just back the timing off a little bit.
I have heard on various boards, with numerous vehicles that removal of the EGR or a makeshift EGR restrictor greatly affects throttle response, and power, dont know if there is any truth to that.
The restrictor theory is that you leave the EGR functional, you just narrow the orfics, so less exhasut gets through (basically a washer with a tiny hole VS a big opening. This lets just enough exhaust by that you don't trip a code, but enough so the computer thinks your gtg..
After thought:
COuld it be when my egr wasnt working, and tripped a code my engine went into limp home mode. Which means it used a preprogrammed mixture, which could be set for use of the EGR, hence the pinging...
So my theory is with the EGR disabled in the chip, I wouldn't get a light, It wouldn't go into limp home mode, and would adjust the mixutre properly, resulting in no ping.
Does this sound like a valid idea/theory?
I guess what I am saying is I know if I remove my EGR im goig to get ping. How should I compensate for this, since I am assuming no egr means more combustion temp, shoudl I just back the timing off a little bit.
I have heard on various boards, with numerous vehicles that removal of the EGR or a makeshift EGR restrictor greatly affects throttle response, and power, dont know if there is any truth to that.
The restrictor theory is that you leave the EGR functional, you just narrow the orfics, so less exhasut gets through (basically a washer with a tiny hole VS a big opening. This lets just enough exhaust by that you don't trip a code, but enough so the computer thinks your gtg..
After thought:
COuld it be when my egr wasnt working, and tripped a code my engine went into limp home mode. Which means it used a preprogrammed mixture, which could be set for use of the EGR, hence the pinging...
So my theory is with the EGR disabled in the chip, I wouldn't get a light, It wouldn't go into limp home mode, and would adjust the mixutre properly, resulting in no ping.
Does this sound like a valid idea/theory?
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 708
Likes: 0
From: RI
Car: 93 Caprice 9C1
Engine: L05
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.42
There should be a separate EGR SA table so if you disable EGR by maxing out the conditional variables (temp would be one), then it will never run that EGR SA and you should be fine.
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 1
From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
If you look at early on in this thread I mentioned limiting the total amount of timing the engine would ever use. That plays a big role in things.
There's oh, maybe 50 ways GM has handled EGR.
So there's probably at leas 50 opinions about what people see going on depending on their application.
If you disable the EGR, then you have to fully disable it, for it to be really disabled.
All the 3rd Gen v8s that I know of use a backpressure EGR valve. So that means, a block plate, to fully disable it.
Hand in hand with it in oem form is running lean, and that mandates alot of timing. Good for mileage, but it's hard on valves, pistons, bearings etc. If your hunting for MPG, then your going to be on the edge detonation wise, all the time your in cruise. Giving up a few MPG, thou, can make life alot easier on the engine and cooling system, thou.
With the GN, I can run 44d timing and lean to get 30 MPG. Or 28d and 14.2, and get 25. At 28d the engine also carries 5 PSI more oil pressure. Guess which I run.
Point is once your doing your own chips, you can experiment and find out what really works for your car.
There's oh, maybe 50 ways GM has handled EGR.
So there's probably at leas 50 opinions about what people see going on depending on their application.
If you disable the EGR, then you have to fully disable it, for it to be really disabled.
All the 3rd Gen v8s that I know of use a backpressure EGR valve. So that means, a block plate, to fully disable it.
Hand in hand with it in oem form is running lean, and that mandates alot of timing. Good for mileage, but it's hard on valves, pistons, bearings etc. If your hunting for MPG, then your going to be on the edge detonation wise, all the time your in cruise. Giving up a few MPG, thou, can make life alot easier on the engine and cooling system, thou.
With the GN, I can run 44d timing and lean to get 30 MPG. Or 28d and 14.2, and get 25. At 28d the engine also carries 5 PSI more oil pressure. Guess which I run.
Point is once your doing your own chips, you can experiment and find out what really works for your car.
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Do I understand you correctly?
EGR was disabled in the prom before the EGR fell off, and it ran better after blocking it off? This means the EGR valve was either stuck open or leaking?
I have my EGR disabled, but sometimes I wonder about it.
EGR was disabled in the prom before the EGR fell off, and it ran better after blocking it off? This means the EGR valve was either stuck open or leaking?
I have my EGR disabled, but sometimes I wonder about it.
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Joined: Jun 2000
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by novakm
Do I understand you correctly?
EGR was disabled in the prom before the EGR fell off, and it ran better after blocking it off? This means the EGR valve was either stuck open or leaking?
I have my EGR disabled, but sometimes I wonder about it.
Do I understand you correctly?
EGR was disabled in the prom before the EGR fell off, and it ran better after blocking it off? This means the EGR valve was either stuck open or leaking?
I have my EGR disabled, but sometimes I wonder about it.
It's called a Backpressure EGR valve.
It's a common error that's been perpetuated by the unknowing that just removing the vac hose disables it.
It was functioning as designed.
If you want to do a little research and build a Cat's Whisker movement detector, and then sense/log the EGR pintles movement. I've even had a few go arounds with GM tech center instructors on that.
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Joined: Feb 2000
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From: Johnstown, Ohio
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 355 (fastburn heads, LT4 HOT cam)
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt, 3.27
GM used Negative and positive backpressure EGR valves. That is what I don't undestand! Is the negative for engines that have good flowing exhaust, and more cam overlap and the positive for the famous "LA" cams?
Just curious.
Just curious.
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by JP84Z430HP
GM used Negative and positive backpressure EGR valves. That is what I don't undestand! Is the negative for engines that have good flowing exhaust, and more cam overlap and the positive for the famous "LA" cams?
GM used Negative and positive backpressure EGR valves. That is what I don't undestand! Is the negative for engines that have good flowing exhaust, and more cam overlap and the positive for the famous "LA" cams?
The only real way to find out if your's is opening is to conduct a couple tests to see what's really going on. Either make a motion detector to see if the pintle moves, or block it off and see if there is any noticeable differnce.
There's some stuff that's just been improper explained and repeated to much that it's assumed to be fact, when it's just opnion.
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From: Johnstown, Ohio
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 355 (fastburn heads, LT4 HOT cam)
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt, 3.27
Originally posted by Grumpy
I think the negative term is just used to indicate the backpressure PROBABLY won't open it.
The only real way to find out if your's is opening is to conduct a couple tests to see what's really going on. Either make a motion detector to see if the pintle moves, or block it off and see if there is any noticeable differnce.
There's some stuff that's just been improper explained and repeated to much that it's assumed to be fact, when it's just opnion.
I think the negative term is just used to indicate the backpressure PROBABLY won't open it.
The only real way to find out if your's is opening is to conduct a couple tests to see what's really going on. Either make a motion detector to see if the pintle moves, or block it off and see if there is any noticeable differnce.
There's some stuff that's just been improper explained and repeated to much that it's assumed to be fact, when it's just opnion.
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Verdicts in,
This is the Main Spark and VE tables that have worked best.
12.6-12.9 in my city/ freeway driving loop, and most are 20m or less trips. I'd expect to be right at 15 MPG on road trips.
If you compare this to the BBMT original .bin you'll see the differences aren't huge, but there is a huge difference in drivibility, performance, and MPG. The PE timing advance was 0'd out. Open loop.
The lean chuggle, gone.
The hesitation on intial throttle application, gone.
Cold start drivibility much better.
Short shifting has vastly improved the pulling capacity.
3rd gear low speed TCC enagement was an aid in MPG.
Spark:
22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 13 12 10 10 9 9
21 22 22 22 22 22 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
21 22 22 22 22 22 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
18 19 27 27 24 23 22 21 17 17 16 16 16 16 16
16 17 32 32 29 26 23 20 16 16 16 16 16 16 16
14 16 33 33 30 28 24 23 21 20 20 20 20 20 20
15 19 34 34 32 29 25 25 24 24 22 22 22 22 22
15 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 25 24 22 22 22 22 22
15 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 25 24 24 24 24 24 24
15 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 24 24 23 22 22 22 22
21 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 24 24 23 22 22 22 22
21 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 25 25 24 24 24 24 24
21 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 24 24 24 24 24 24 24
VE:
52 58 61 62 62 62 64 68 72 75 79 85
52 58 61 62 62 62 64 68 72 75 79 85
53 53 62 62 62 62 65 77 79 81 84 85
53 53 78 85 85 87 88 89 90 91 92 89
39 45 81 88 89 89 90 91 91 92 93 87
39 45 82 90 91 91 92 94 94 95 96 91
39 45 81 88 89 90 92 95 95 95 96 91
39 45 81 88 89 90 91 94 95 95 97 93
39 45 79 87 89 89 90 93 94 94 96 92
39 45 79 87 88 88 89 91 93 93 95 91
39 45 79 86 88 89 89 91 92 93 94 91
39 45 79 86 86 89 89 89 90 90 91 90
52 45 79 82 82 88 88 89 89 91 92 89
YMMV
This is just what works for me in my truck.
This is the Main Spark and VE tables that have worked best.
12.6-12.9 in my city/ freeway driving loop, and most are 20m or less trips. I'd expect to be right at 15 MPG on road trips.
If you compare this to the BBMT original .bin you'll see the differences aren't huge, but there is a huge difference in drivibility, performance, and MPG. The PE timing advance was 0'd out. Open loop.
The lean chuggle, gone.
The hesitation on intial throttle application, gone.
Cold start drivibility much better.
Short shifting has vastly improved the pulling capacity.
3rd gear low speed TCC enagement was an aid in MPG.
Spark:
22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 13 12 10 10 9 9
21 22 22 22 22 22 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
21 22 22 22 22 22 17 16 16 15 14 13 13 12 12
18 19 27 27 24 23 22 21 17 17 16 16 16 16 16
16 17 32 32 29 26 23 20 16 16 16 16 16 16 16
14 16 33 33 30 28 24 23 21 20 20 20 20 20 20
15 19 34 34 32 29 25 25 24 24 22 22 22 22 22
15 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 25 24 22 22 22 22 22
15 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 25 24 24 24 24 24 24
15 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 24 24 23 22 22 22 22
21 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 24 24 23 22 22 22 22
21 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 25 25 24 24 24 24 24
21 19 34 34 32 29 26 25 24 24 24 24 24 24 24
VE:
52 58 61 62 62 62 64 68 72 75 79 85
52 58 61 62 62 62 64 68 72 75 79 85
53 53 62 62 62 62 65 77 79 81 84 85
53 53 78 85 85 87 88 89 90 91 92 89
39 45 81 88 89 89 90 91 91 92 93 87
39 45 82 90 91 91 92 94 94 95 96 91
39 45 81 88 89 90 92 95 95 95 96 91
39 45 81 88 89 90 91 94 95 95 97 93
39 45 79 87 89 89 90 93 94 94 96 92
39 45 79 87 88 88 89 91 93 93 95 91
39 45 79 86 88 89 89 91 92 93 94 91
39 45 79 86 86 89 89 89 90 90 91 90
52 45 79 82 82 88 88 89 89 91 92 89
YMMV
This is just what works for me in my truck.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Last Fri., did an oil change, some routine maintance, and changed plugs.
Plugs looked as good as new, with the same .040 gap, and just an off bone white/ biege hue to them.
Oil was no where near as black as previously.
Now one tank of gas later, with new plugs at .035, I broke 15 MPG. Not at all bad for combo of highway, city driving with a 454 3/4t P-U in my book.
Low timing, definitely has it's place in my book.
The next project is a PE Spark retarder.
Unlike John Q Public, I don't need the sensation of speed, so I never use the PE spark adder, and now it seems like the time, for running it, as a timing retarder. Remains to be seen, if or how well it works, but just thought I'd share the idea.
Plugs looked as good as new, with the same .040 gap, and just an off bone white/ biege hue to them.
Oil was no where near as black as previously.
Now one tank of gas later, with new plugs at .035, I broke 15 MPG. Not at all bad for combo of highway, city driving with a 454 3/4t P-U in my book.
Low timing, definitely has it's place in my book.
The next project is a PE Spark retarder.
Unlike John Q Public, I don't need the sensation of speed, so I never use the PE spark adder, and now it seems like the time, for running it, as a timing retarder. Remains to be seen, if or how well it works, but just thought I'd share the idea.
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,416
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From: Johnstown, Ohio
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 355 (fastburn heads, LT4 HOT cam)
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt, 3.27
I am very interested in finding out how this turns out. I also have no need for "Feeling" fast, when I can measure how fast it is.
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From: SW Chicago 'burbs
Car: American Iron Firebird
Engine: The little 305 that could.
Transmission: Richmond T-10
Axle/Gears: Floater 9" - 3.64 gears
Grumpy: how did the PE spark retarder work out? This data is very interesting. I'll have to try a couple things on my car once I get ballsy enough to start changing them.
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by nape
Grumpy: how did the PE spark retarder work out? This data is very interesting. I'll have to try a couple things on my car once I get ballsy enough to start changing them.
Grumpy: how did the PE spark retarder work out? This data is very interesting. I'll have to try a couple things on my car once I get ballsy enough to start changing them.
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