i dont know what else to call this, but ive wondered this for a bit. in all my other cars, i had a position on the ignition that i could turn the key, to power on accessories and if i didnt want to turn on the car. for example, being at a drive-in movie and keeping the stereo on for 2 hours.

on my 86 bird, there is no such thing. you turn the key to the first position but the SES light comes on so I figure that means you cant keep it in this position very long without draining the battery? anyone?

 

Dude! Turn the key backwards. It's a GM not a Honda. Turn it counter clockwise and accesory power you shall have. I'm taking it that you just got this car??? I am also taking it that it is your first Gm car??? I'm not trying to poke fun at you, just trying to figure this out.

 

LOL. I was wondering if this was a dumb question. I will check again but I dont remember being able to turn it backwards.... (yes- it IS that way on my other cars).. but I dont remember see a marking or even being able too...

 

LOL! Nope no marks just turn it backwards. If it doesn't go then you probably need a new ignition.

 

On a Pontiac column.. there is no turn the key back 'accesory' position like camaros have, at least in the few I've been in including mine ('87). All the one's I've tried that with have that little lever to release the key though, I don't know if the prior to '87 bird's are different.
All GM's are not created equal (except for the crappy doorhandles....)

 

Hmmm don't turn back???? I don't beleive I have run into any GM model car or truck that doesn't turn back for accesories before the 1992 models. well exccept for the import ramake by GM like Geos and stuff.

Diggler how did you make out?? I'm curious now.

 

Well, just because you haven't doen't mean they aren't out there.
I'd pay you cash to see you turn the key back in my '87 bird (w/o breaking it because in the 5 years I've owned it, not one time has the key turned back. I've test driven and '89 t/a and a '88 formula that did the same thing as well, I checked those thinking that maybe my cylinder or switch was just broken or something. Turns out my car is normal. Maybe I've just been in 3 freak cars that just, by chance, have the same problem. Who knows...

 

Hey I'm not trying to call you a liar! I'm just stating what I know. I haven't ran into this problem with Fbody cars. Like you said who knows... Maybe GM wanted to punish Pontiac buyers??????J/K Weird though that the TA only have this problem and not the Camaros, since they are made on the same concept??

 

It's no big deal.. I didn't mean to come off like I was pissed, I wasn't. I would be damm amazed if you could get my bird into accy though
The only thing I've ever noticed between the 2 is the camaro doesn't have the key release lever thing (at least up to 87) on it like the firebirds do. I'm not sure if this is the cause of the problem or what but, I have had 3 columns in my camaro, the current is from an 87 camaro, and none have had the key release. I've never really understood the point of the key release thing either aside from the fact it's just something else on the column to break..

 

From the factory, all thirdgens could have the ignition key rotated counter clockwise to power just the radio & windshield wipers. To get to the accessory position, you have to push the key cylinder gromet inwards towards the wiper/turn signal switch while turning it backwards.

Admittedly, on some older general motors products the ignition lock cylinder is worn in such a way that you cannot get to accessory position but this is not the way the cars were shipped from the factory.

 

If you want to see for yourself that an accessory position exists, purchase an ignition lock cylinder & a ignition switch from the dealer. These are the two peices of the steering column that control which positions the ignition key can and cannot be turned to and also control where the run/start/accessory positions are in the rotation cycle.

 

thirdgens have this feature and like other cars you can listen to the radio and clear the windshield with the key in the accessory position. the odd thing about it though is that you cannot operate the power windows in accessory.

 

ok i just checked again... there is NO WAY i can move the cylinder backwards without breaking something anyhow. even if i am sure to push in the whole cylinder it just wont go that way. i've had both an 87 and now 86 and they were both this way.

this is what suprised me that i didnt have this feature!! perhaps like 2vmod says its just worn parts or something. from what deadbird says it sounds like a TA thing!

it would be nice to have the accessory power sometimes..



also, i dont have any press-to-release key lever on the column. ..

 

The best bet then is to call your local GM dealership and ask what is up with the ignition on your car. If they can't answer this question then no one can I guess. Good luck, and I hope you get it figured out. You could always make your own switch.

 

yeah, i was wondering about making my own switch.... hmmm... could be a cool project....

really, i would just want the stereo to have power. maybe the windows too. i will have to think about this!

forget the wipers, i live in Cali... hehe.

does anyone have diagram for how the windows are allowed power?????

 

Camaros are wired the same as birds for the most part (with a few exceptions of course).

This may help you...
http://92b4crs.tripod.com/86wiring/86wiringindex.html

 

To power the radio & wipers, jump the red with the brown wire in the ignition switch harness.



http://www.p71interceptor.com/thirdg...owerdistro.jpg

 

Alternatively, you could add a retained accessory power system to your thirdgen. The radio & power windows would stay powered after you removed the keys from the ignition, but would shut off as soon as you opened a door.

 

WOW thanks guys for the schematics those will def help. my brain gears are spinnin!

2vmod i got some Qs

if i take off the drivers side panel under the dash will i be able to find these wires? (dont really feel like taking apart column)

could i just jump green with red to get the windows powered? i see that its also includes the HVAC but just gotta remember not to use those .. prob drain batt pretty quick right?

is red basically 12V batt? i dont know what that circle "5280" is..

and finally, to hot wire my car, i combine pink with red and touch yellow? LOL.

thanks.

 

yep, you should be able to catch the ignition switch harness wires in between the column and the fusebox.

rather than jumping the orange with the red wire, just cut the feed to the power window circuit and jump it directly to the red constant hot wire. then you can move the windows regardless of whether the keys are in the ignition. if you've got small children in the household, think twice before making the windows live all the time though.

yep, energize the fuel delivery & ignition circuits and then momentarily pulse the starter and the engine is up and running.

some more info on the ignition switch wiring harness is avaliable here:

http://www.p71interceptor.com/thirdgen/alarminfo

 

ahhh thats a great idea.. i think i will just make the windows available all the time (no kids)!! then the ACC switch is going to be a snap!

thanks again... great chart btw... thats way too easy to start car hehe next on my list is a hidden nuetral safety switch cutoff!!!

 

why does my 1992 firebird have it then?

 

i can't turn it back to acc in my 91 RS....no matter how much pushing in/wiggling key i do...i guess it's just worn though.

 

I guess I should have phrased what I said as not to mean all.. I over generalized based on the few I've messed with. That was my mistake.

 

perhaps the ACC position came with the VATS ignition switches?

 

All thirdgens, vats equipped or not, have an accessory position that can be accessed by pushing the ignition lock grommet inwards and rotating the key counterclockwise. For that matter, even second-gen f-bodies from the 1970's have an accessory postion too.

Pick up a copy of the owners manual for your vehicle, it will explain this feature in more detail.

 

ok i got the first part done. i wired my windows to be powered all the time. on the back on the fuse box, the pink wire with the orange connector on it leads to the windows. pull that out and your windows should stop working.

i just connected this pink wire to the orange wire that is for the hazards fuse. figured thats a good place since its always powered and its fused with 20A.

works great! next i am going to work on my acc switch. will probably put a switch in the blank spot on the dash. wish they made more spots, i'd have lots of cool switches

 

Done!

I used a headlight switch for the ACC switch and put it in the blank spot. it jumps the brown and red wires when pressed just like 2vmod said. i got to them at the fuse box. i rigged the light to go on also, hoping that will remind me to turn it off, if i ever leave it on by accident.

Attached is a pic.

Thanks for all your help guys! :hail:

PS. I am also going to switch my buttons over to red LEDs. The one on the right, the TRK one is complete.

 

I believe someone is making things more difficult than need be!

As said earlier, all our cars have the ACC position if you turn the switch backwards. I know many of you don't believe it's there, but it is. If you don't turn the key to this position very often, it will be very difficult, if not impossible (as seems the case for some) to get it to turn there. I'd bet that with a little time, it will eventually go, although it may involve some parts replacement/cleaning, such as the lock cylinder, ELECTRICAL ignition switch, or even the rack and pinion type mechanism in the coulmn that operates between both.

The lever that some have referred to is put in manual transmission cars, and I think it is to remind you to set the brake. I don't get it, but many newer vehicles still have this!

If anyone is in doubt as to whether or not their column has the ACC position, I would like to see proof in a manual, owner's or shop, that says it doesn't! As said before, there is just something keeping it from operating!

 

I should add that this applies to a stock column. If someone has aftermarket stuff in their car, throw the manual out the window!

 

but how much PITA and $$$ would digging into that cylinder cost ya?

 

Oh yeah, I totally understand that aspect! After entering in my reply, I was thinking it was cool for you to get to know your car's wiring well enough to do the stuff you are doing, too.

I just don't know that I could trust myself to get it shut off!

My lock cylinder is worn enough that in ACC I can get the key to come out with it still on, and I do that sometimes to open the hatch (No power release yet) and I have forgotten to turn iot off before and drained that Battery!

I know I am going to look into doing the delay deal that was nentioned earlier in the thread! I like that, and even with the experience I have in industrial control circuits, I never thought of that one!

 

yeah, and after looking into the wiring, it makes very good sense that there was an ACC position designed into the cylinder, simply because of the fact that the ACC wire exists and being able to be powered separately from the run.

it is very odd though, and i've had an 86, and 87 that did this. in fact though in my 87 i could start the car with no key! must be the thing just plain wears out from use.

anyhow, i've got an EE degree so this intrigued me...lol

i was thinking about making a buzzer go off if the door was open at the same time (reminder if you leave car) ... but then i thought maybe i wouldnt that buzzer on either... jury's still out on that idea... probably till i drain the battery, haha.

 

Hey, I like the buzzer idea! Maybe use the existing key-in/headlamp on buzzer (Beep)...

One thing I found interesting on my car, it had all the terminals for beeper module in the box, but the module itself didn't have the terminals for the headlight on warning. After leaving the lights on a few time at dusk when it wasn't quit dark enough to notice them on from in the car, but I wanted other cars to be able to see me, and draining the battery, I found that just putting in the module that has the other terminal in it gave me that warning! All about the $$$$$ I suppose!

 

I totally agree with you JP84Z430HP!

I've owned and seen several Pontiacs, even back in the 60's and 70's they had the accesories function. Mine has it, but it didn't work at first, I fixed it. The problem was that the bolts INSIDE the column were all loose, I practically took it all apart and retightened it, it's working perfectly now!

 

Is 5 years long enough ?

 

I had a the same problem with the column in my 87 cutlass and I replaced the lock cylinder and the problem was solved and the part about removing the key with the car in the accesory position most gm`s will do it if you put the key in just the right spot except for the newer ones and those with the vats system

 

well, mine (92 firebird) doesn't turn back either.

 

yep, and the wafers inside the lock cylinder are probably worn significantly. keep in mind that your bird is over 10 years old.

 

Those are actually called "side-bars". Imports use "wafers".

Just being slightly educational and mostly nitpickey for no reason.

 

I thought Imports ran on ****-cakes?

Sorry, I couldn't resist! LOL

 

I have a 89 Trans Am WS6 that has VATs, it does not go back into a accessory position.

Before I had the trans am I had a 85 camaro v6 without VATs, it also did not turn back. I had my dad trying and everything, and im preety confident it wont go back.

My mom has a 85 cutlass cierra, it goes into access easily, and uh, the key can be pulled out at anytime, even when the engines running. (makes warming the car up easy when you forgot to something in the house and need to go back in)'

Neither of my cars had the release button.

 

i don't know why you are all talking abotu this.... there IS an accesory position, where it has said to be. this was standard on just about everysingle gm vehicle from the early 80's on....

My 86 goes in easly, since i have a new lock cylinder.

my 91 is a PITA to turn back, but does go with a few seconds of finagling...

Steve

 

Just thought I would throw in my .02

I have a '88 T/A without vats and the acc position works, but, it is worn pretty bad and I actually have to turn the key to "on" then directly back to the acc position to get it to work.

I also have a '91 firebird with vats and the acc position works fine.

If you really wanted to get into it you could remove the lock cylinder then put a flathead screwdriver into the hole and try to turn backwards.

 

Actually, you need a pair of fine needle plyers, but that'll work. Two things that could be wrong if the accesories position doesn't work on your GM are:[list=1][*]The lock cylinder itself[*]The switch on the column which is activated by the cylinder through conecting rods[*]or the adjustment on this last switch and the rods, which is quite often the problem[/list=1]
I hope this works, I've had problems with all of these issues before, like I said on a previous reply, this is not my first Pontiac or GM for me. Just my $0.02 worth.

 

My pontiac column had an accessory position, and so does the 89 camaro colum I swapped in it. In fact, I have never seen a GM car without an accessory position. Sometimes its a little hard to turn the key back to it though, you might have to wiggle it and turn at the same time.

 

In almost every GM car Ive ever been in there has been a "turn back" thingy. Except for one. It was an 86 cavalier. It was a heap tho. Even my 67 Bonneville has the turn back, and that ignition switch is in the dash. Just my two cents.

Justin