TomP

Hello! Just want an opinion of where to put the stronger, "old-pre-federal-mogul" Moog tie rod end. It's the inner tie rod end. What side of the car, in your opinion (experience not required here!!), should get the stronger inner tie rod end? Driver's side or passenger side? I took a few pictures.

I'm also asking on if you think I should scrap the old-school tie rod end and use the newest model. It came from Summit on Wednesday... obviously, I'm not done with my suspension rebuild. I'd like to send it back. I'd hate to eat $45 on the "old" tie rod end that I bought locally.

First picture!! Top tie rod is the new design, came in the box on the left. Bottom tie rod end is the old design, came in the older box on the right.

Notice the horizontal casting line on the lower (old) tie rod end. It extends onto the middle of the joint. I think this would make the design stronger.

TomP

Second picture!! A slightly out of focus picture of the joints. Notice the older design (bottom) seems to be thicker between the tubular end and the joint. The tubular end also seems to be thicker then the inner end at the top. WAIT! Let me grab my dial calipers.

THICKNESS SPECS:

"new design" inner tie rod end (topmost part): 0.652 inches thick shaft
"old design" inner tie rod end (bottom part): 0.744 inches thick shaft


At least now we know it's not the picture or my eyes that makes the older design thicker; it's actually thicker!

TomP

Picture number three! A close-up of the sides. Here you can see the thick horizontal raised line on the bottom tie rod end (the old, stronger design). Note that the joint looks thicker too (not going to bother measuring it).

[edit] Aw dammit, yeah, I am going to measure them.


THICKNESS SPECS:

"new design" inner tie rod end (topmost part): 0.652 inches thick shaft
"old design" inner tie rod end (bottom part): 0.744 inches thick shaft

THICKNESS OF JOINT:

"new design" (topmost): joint thickness above shaft=1.380 inches
"new design" (topmost): joint thickness Below shaft=1.519 inches

"old design" (bottom): joint thickness above shaft=1.448 inches
"old design" (bottom): joint thickness Below shaft=1.527 inches (basically the same)

Okay, so the joints aren't that big of a difference. I did the measurements twice and took an average of them; largest deviance was .006, so I'm measuring correctly

TomP

LAST picture! This is just for reference if someone buys a tie rod end that doesn't look like the others they bought. Notice that the old design, stronger tie rod end (bottom-most part) has a silver cap over the bottom of the joint. It's stamped with "USA 2227L 77810". There are no other markings on the tie rod end.

The newer design inner tie rod end, the one at the top, in the corrugated-cardboard "opens from top" box with Federal Mogul written on it, has a gold cap over the bottom. It's stamped with "Moog Problem Solver 4073". Midway along the shaft is a stamping, appears to read "MNA".

Please post your opinion!! I can't decide for myself which end gets the most abuse. Honestly they might get equal abuse. I wish I could dig up more of this new-old-stock "stronger" tie rod end design. But.... maybe the newer design is improved more? For more information on these differences, see <a href="https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184974" target="newwin">this message.</a>

Thank you!! The linkage goes back on tomorrow morning!

TomP

One last bit- the "old stronger design" appears to be an 1/8 inch shorter. I don't think this would majorly affect any toe in/toe out settings... but it's just something else to consider.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

only real way to determine which is stronger, is to destroy them & compare how much force was exerted to do so. Use both & be happy . caint we all (tie rod ends) get along?

ede

i agree there isn't a way to know which, if any is better, or stronger, by looking. destructive testing would be required or running a simulation on a program like ansysis.

Justins86bird

Doesn't make a difference which side you put the old one on. Both are plenty strong enough. If you want both ties to look the same, then use 2 new ones. If you don't care, then use what you got.

TomP

Damn, destructive testing... never considered that route. Good point though; who knows which is stronger. The newer (thinner) one might be stronger because of improved metals or casting processes.

Justin, yeah, matching isn't a big deal to me. Nobody better get that close to my linkage or they're getting their butt kicked. I'm going with putting it on the passenger side. I figure that side hits the most ruts (and the occassional parallel-parking curb), and AGood2.8 gave me the idea that the stronger tie rod end (if the thicker one is, in fact, stronger) might be more resiliant to a worn-out idler arm.

Justins86bird

Thicker may not mean better. Remember, the ball joint is what wears out, and just because the casting of the rod is bigger, it doesn't mean the joint is stronger.

camaro_junkie

Well, I voted for the driver's side. Here's my reasoning, but before I do, I just want to say that there's no reason to get into a heated argument about this, because we're all just guessing. Okay, when you are turning right you are turning on a smaller radius which probably requires more force. Now, when turning right, the car leans left, putting more down-force on the driver's side, therefore you need more force on that rod to turn.

However, I do like the idea about hitting curbs and putting it on the passenger's side. I hit curbs all the time. That's another good reason to rotate your tires.

JP84Z430HP

Well, I'm glad to see that someone's not as bad as me! I would HAVE to nave them both the same. I am just way too picky when it comes to my car (Especially something that will be on it for quite sometime!).

I'm sure they will either one be more than enough for heavy street use, so just don't worry about it (even though my picky self would!)

MrDude_1

heavier one should go on the pass side to help offset the weight of the driver...


lol

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Tom,

I have a K-6145 balljoint on the drivers side and a K-6145-T balljoint on the passengers side. Now figure out which way I'd vote, based on that.