Finally i've gotten there.

Cracked an 11.960 @ 113.51 last night down the track with my Z28.

For those that are building motors..... you don't need 1200 bucks worth of heads and roller cams to get the car to fly. You need parts that work well with each other.

My motor... and car's nothing special. a 355 with a lil over 10.5:1 compression, runs just fine on high octane pump gas.

Vortec truck heads, with a bit of bowl work, and a valve job. Hydraulic flat tappet comp XE 274 cam.... less than .500 lift with the 1.5 rockers .

Still running a 700R4.. a beefed up one... but still a 700... and still running a 10 bolt.. with street gears... 3.73's.

If you wanna run fast on a budget it can still be done... being dazzled by high dollar heads with outrageous flow numbers that you'll never use... is not the way.. if your on a budget.


A lil bit of planning goes a long way. if you have a good plan and spend your money in the right directions, once.. you'll spend less in the long run.

 

I've been waiting for this day to come!! Congrats on the run. If it weren't so cold here, and if I didn't have to build toy boxes, I would be pounding mine to get there. You still running the super jets? Got the roll bar in yet?

 

yup the roll bar is in... right now it's jetted 80/86... next time i might go down a size and see how it likes it.

hell i think it's only the 3rd or 4th time down with the slicks... they are finally getting broke in and starting to bite.

 

what intake, carb, headers

go show

 

780 Vac sec 4150 holley,

Edelbrock performer rpm vortec with a 1" spacer.

Slp 1 3/4" w/o air tubes

 

Nice Job PK!

Tim

 

Good job Ponykiller!

If I can get some extra $$$ to finish mine out, we'll have some Vortec TPI results in the 11's !

Nice run man, but I believe there's a little more in your car yet. I think 11.60's - 11.70's is very possible for your car.

 

Sweet man! What were your 1/8 mile times and mph? I am curious to see what they are compared to my car.

You are running that fast with a vacuum secondary carb? Thats impressive? What all have to done to the carb, secondary springs?

:yourock:

 

carbs just jettted up too high. lightest spring, dark green pump cam.

full run timeslip

1.666.................60
4.924..................330
7.613 @ 90.68.....1/8
9.902...................990
11.960 @ 113.51...1/4

 

killer, what intake you running?

 

 

it really is a pretty basic setup, Not a whole lot of money wrapped up in it.. just well spent.

 

i am still impressed by your progress with that car. I wonder if anyone is running faster than you currently with a similar setup, i don't think so.

 

Hey PK,

Would you mind shedding some light on everything you have done to lighten your car for that run?

AC?
Swaybar?
Power Steering?
Wheels/Rims?
etc, etc, etc?

Tim

 

Can't wait to get a pair of Street slicks, so I can hook up! I'll be there next!

 

how much are those heads and were did you get them from. i need something to the car this winter and i have a little extra cash. i was thinling of getting the vortec head, a bigger cam, and a different intake.

 

I got mine from a GM performance Parts dealer in AZ. He has a small ad in the back of Hot Rod mag. every month. The PAIR shipped to my front door was $409.00.

 

wow thats not a bad price at all

 

Very nice
Mine better be quick too after going to the other end of the spending scale LOL I do have the 1425 dollar heads, no roller cam though. Find out when I go to the track with the 350 how slow it is.

 

Check my sigs for times and trap. Protopline vortecs. Keep in mind these times are with a very restrictive 2bbl holley tbi, an untuned chip, and street tires. I'm pretty confident slicks and a 4bbl tbi w/ proper tuning will get me in the 11s.
Hopefully I'll have new times soon with the 1.6 rr, rpm airgap, and new chip in there. It will be interesting to see how well the vortecs flow at .544" lift. I have confidence in them, I'm hoping for traps at around 108mph. If I don't make that trap I'm blaming it on the 2bbl tbi Unfortuantly no slicks yet, but it would be sweet to break into the 12s on street tires.

 

Not to be pesamistic, but don't get your hopes up.

 

Great job, PK! I love seeing naturally aspirated cars running sub-12s. Way to go!

 

wanna know everything... allrighty this is gonna be kinda long.. it's tough to remember over the course of 4 years.

I'll start with the body.

Spohn SFC's. Boxec LCA's, boxed panhard rod, and spohn torque arm. Replaced the front clip with stock stuff and a rivet on cowl. anything that wasn't needed to hold the fenders on didn't go back on. still has the bumper stuff though. had to clearance the front inner wells a bit for the tires in the rear.
S&W 8 point roll bar, welded in by my friends at Sinister Motorcycles in Mount Laurel NJ

Interior.. somehow the car has ended up barren... every time i took somethhing out it didn't go back in... all that's left in the car now is the driver's seat... the original dashboard and pad, with my custom gauge cluster, and the a-pillar plastics. There is no ducting at all for the HVAC system, and the car has been rewired so basically the essentials are all that are left. it is gutted.. no carpet... no console... nothing. The carpet is gone in the trunk but the panels remain.

Engine compartment. hvac stuff all gone... plate over the hole. wipers, and motor gone. powerbrakes still there though. anything not needed to go or stop has been removed.
The front sway bar is gone... took that out when i went to the manual S-10 box. for some reason the box i got would not fit with the 36mm sway bar bracket.. so sway bar went bye bye.
the only thing that lives out there is the battery, the two cooling fans... one the stock 86 electric fan and a smaller faster pusher fan in the front. and the lil controller for the two of them.

Rims and tires.... fronts are the stock 15x7 z28 rims.. with 225-60-15's rears are weld draglites, with 28x10.5x15 et drags on 15x9 rims witha 5.5 backspace.

Still using the stock springs.... 245,000 mile 1986 Z28 springs scummit adjustable shocks in the back... set on 50/50. and lakewood 90/10 dragstruts front.

Rear is loaded with a true 7.5" gearset from an 84 Z28, the original 26 spline axles. and an auburn pro posi.
DS original. new ujoints through a lakewood loop.

Trans.. the origianl 700Rwith a resurection... can't really call it a rebuild... new gearsets... unfotunatly i didn't change the ratios only thing i woulda done differently.. going with the 290 reverse.
new sprags, reaction sun, front half of the pump. raybestos racing clutches, and bad. super servo, 500 boost vavle, transgo kit.. still an auto vavle body. and act 9.5" 3300 stall lockup converter.

Engine.. we'll start with the heads since someone asked.
062 vortecs 300 from a bone yard through the machine shop... off a 98 truck. they were decked... bowl blended, vavle job, pressure checked, with vavle springs, and hardware installed ready to drop on.. ran 858, plus intake gaskets and flow testing came up to 934. the heads CC'd right round 62cc's.
I run a comp xe274 cam... 230/236.. .487/.490 lift, on a 110 lobe sep.. out of the box cam.
comp pushrods, and crane Race gold 1.5 rollers.
performer rpm intake, and 1" moroso open spacer ran 215

Block... picked it up from a friend of mine who'd found it in his garage... it been under a mat or something for about 10 years.
71 4 bolt main, 010 block from a suburban.

block was decked... had a bad spot on the one surface... if memory serves me the deck hieght is.. 8.998
Bored .030 over and alignbored, after being tanked pressure checked and freezeout plugs-cam bearings installed.
the machine shop originally picked up a gm forged crank for me.. 5310 crank if memory serves me. but late in the stages of putting it all togther they got very suspicious of it... and sent it out to get checked again.. and it turned out to be cracked..
So instead of going weaker on the crank i ended up with an eagle 4130 forged crank. and the H bearings to go with it.

I mention the H bearings for a reason. I'm using a stock oil pan. since i'm using a stock oil pan.... using a high volume pump with it and turning up close to 7000rpms running down the track... will suck it dry. i went with a stock volume oil pump.
The main difference between H bearings and normal P bearings has to do with the crank....... on a normal type crank P bearings are fine... on a forged crank with wide fillets you can't use them.. they are too close to the fillets... giving too tight a side clearance, or in some cases binding up.. so you need the H bearings. which are slightly narrower.... H bearings are "race Bearings"
P bearings are more or less oval shaped and hold oil pressure... H bearings are round... i'd gather to make up for the lack of width.

the point of all that is this. Not an every day motor. cruising around oil pressure fine and dandy... hot oil pressure at low idle... say 750-800 rpm oil press 15 psi. even with the bearings at the regular tolerances.
Next reason not an every day motor...
Vortec heads are a "high quench design"... heartshaped chamber... with the decked heads.. and the decked block... there is only .039 between the top of the pistons.... and the bottom of the head... good for power... but bad for valve float. the pistons have very large valve reliefs.. likd 6.5cc .. they are trw forged flattops. I've got good springs in there.. but will likely change them every other year just to be safe.

so... on those notes.. you see why i didn't have any real problem gutting the interior... since i really wouldn't drive it every day anyway... couple times a week not a problem.. but this is a weekend warrior now. more or less a strip/street car... instead of the other way around.

all that was done over the course of 4 years.... on a budget.

The suspension work save the shocks and struts, and rollbar... was done 4 years ago. with another motor in there. and i got a bunch of it at a very deep discount.

The Motor..your gonna love this... was built on lunch money.. I brown bagged it for 11 months to pay for the motor. and drop the 50-60 bucks a week off at the machine shop. if you spend 3200 bucks in 11 monts on lunch you can have one too

The trans i just "had the money" and went on a spending spree one day and shelled otu 900 bucks in parts, and bought the conveter the next day.

but a lot of it was carry over from planning before.. the susspension the fuel system which was way overkill for a mild 305... a 6.5psi 120gph, returnless carter street pump.. mechanical pump. The posi was there with a set of 3.42's before i put that in back in 99...

That's about all can remember right now.

 

What does the scale say about the weight? With and without driver.

 

Which machine shop do you use? Cause in the near future I'm looking to get some head work done. Thanks

 

Thanks PK. I just wanted to simply illustrate that you put a lot of time/work into the car to get it into the 11's. It's not simply an 11 second street car. Rather - it's a stripped down warrior

Tim

 

oh yeah.. a lot of time and effort in the car. all the needless garbage has been removed. I'm not about it being pretty... or kidding myself about driving it every day... it's a stipped for action weekend warrior. No frils. But... it is still a street driven eleven second car, that most won't monkey with

so in essence it is a simple 11 sec street car... as in.. ain't much to go wrong... no bull**** approach to fast.

D&F performance in winslow is who i use. for the machine work.

As far as the weight of the car.. i still don't know... it hasn't seen a scale yet. i'll run over it At E-town in a few weeks.

as far as the wieght.. with me i'd guess it's over 3400lbs.

 

Did the same machine shop port your heads? I remember awhile ago you posted the flow numbers and said the guy was real fimilar with vortecs... I want to make some runs with mine stock and then have 'em ported for some good ol' comparing.

Thanks,
Chris

 

I recently went from the planning to get some $1200 heads to crap, I can barely pay for gas right now. I'm currently trying to build up a 355 and I was wondering if it would be even remotely possible to get similar results from a set of the aluminum corvette L98 heads? The reason I was wanting to use these was because I plan on using the Holley Stealth Ram and I don't want to shell out for a vortec base, although I guess if I did I'd still be under budget compared to a set of $1200 heads. Thanks in advance.

 

Very impressive car. And not a lot tied up in it.

My car weighs 3530 with me in it. Lets say you dumped 200/250 lbs by getting rid of all the nonessential ballast.

At 113 MPH in the quarter looks like about 450/460hp at the crank.

Very plausable (possible) with the combo you have.

Nice job.

Just wondering why the carb needs such big jetting?

Is it flow modded? or is the big jetting needed for detonation protection. I'm not being critical, just curious. Have you tested it on high octane race gas?

 

Nice work PK

Havent talked to u in awhile lol

I remember when you were putting that combo together and it moved out pretyy good from the beginnning :-)


Nice to see u still beating the living heck out of it lol

LAter
Jeremy
PS drop by chat or visit my board so i know your alive every now and then

 

PK, you might want to weight that thing. Mine is by no means stripped. Especialy on the inside. I weighed mine at a certified truck scale and with 3/4 tank of gas, w/o me, it sat at 3240. I weight 160lb. So thats at 3400 w/me.

 

The only "port work" the heads have is in the bowls... the ports are utterly untouched... as cast by the factory.

as far as the jetting it's still a smidge on the rich side but not that far. so it may come down a lil more.. but as are as the jetting being so high as near as i can tell it's because of the carb... it's an old carb.. oe carb off a 65 impalla 427/425horse motor... it's a 780 vac sec... with downleg boosters instead of the modern anular ones ohter than that i couldn't give you a reason. it just is lol

I've run it on strait 93 and as much as a 50/50 mix with that and 104 octane unleaded. it runs smoother over 6K with the tank spiked.. other than that the ET's and times are nearly identical.


as far as the wieght goes.. i really don't know... but i do know this.. i took an awefull lot out... but... it's got a lot of stuff attached to it.

the sfc's. the boxed rear suspension parts, the spohn torque arm, the roll bar... ahow much they weigh.. dunno... but they put a dent into what i took out.
and me being around 215.. i think it's a solid guess it's at least 3400 lbs racing.

allrighty TTA i'll catch up to ya

 

over 3400? your on crackat least 3350 w/o driver- my car is 3400 w/o driver, and its still got everything!!! albeit it has aluminum heads, but thats it- still has a/c everything, t-top car...

still tho, sweet car, sounds like it runs good!

 

i should know the weight of the car this weekend.. headingup to Englishtown on saturday. i'll roll over the scale up there.

I wouldn't be surprised to see anything from 3300-3600 on the scale i'll know for sure soon.

it'll problaby run crappy at E-town.. i always without fail run like crap up there

 

I may never know what the car weighs...

Not going up to E-town.. or racing anymore till spring.. i broke the transmission... the case more pricecly... snapped it through the bellhousing to the top of the pump


700R4's with 245K mile cases are aparantly only good for one 11 sec pass i'll do an autopsy on it and see if the internals are good then figure something to do with it

 

Buuuuuuuuuumer!

 

 

:hail: that sucks I am trying to remember that other place near New Jersey that works on Camaros I forget the name.... but why didn't you goto them?

 

Nice work! - Just waned to say that my friend just got his Topline vortecs shipped o his door for $417 bare. - Also, jetting is big because of the 780. A larger carb had less signal, therefore not forcing the motor to pull as much fuel through it. I was running 78's in my 750 primaries, and I'm now at 65's in my 650. Same burn on the plugs, same on my a/f gauge. Just a little more throttle response, all due to more signal.

later, justin...

 

Just though I'd add. Holley has a fomula for carb sizing. I don' know it off the top of my head, but it's has something to due w/ ci, max rpm, multiplied by 1234. Then you go off a comparitive for the type of motor and round to what it tells you.- I'll look it up and post it when I get home. - My 355 turning 6,500 calls for a 660 cfm. - just some technical crapola for ya

later, justin...

 

I had to down jet my carb BIG TIME to keep the plugs from turning black...........

 

i'm not seeing a problem here. GM blocks are delivered with a 9.025" deck height, which leaves the piston .025" down the hole. throw in the .015" steel shim gasket the factory uses, adn you have .040", only .001" more than you have. i really wouldnt be too concerned with it at all.

i was crunching some numbers the other day for my own project 1986 Trans Am, and i came across this very setup, but with slightly less compression. it looks like it ought to do well. how are its street manners? temprature look ok in traffic? is a vac canister required for the power brakes?

 

Well... the shim gasket is NOT an option with mine.. the block has been decked.. it's deck height is in the 8.998 range, the pistons pop out of the bores. and with the stock thickness gaskets.. i'm right at the minimum

Street manners are very good.. but remember... no powersteering, no ac, and a small torque converer are why. temp was ok the few time i hit traffic. and no i never had a canister for the power brakes it still pulled in the 14.5" range in vacuum

 

the Vortec heads work best with a flat top piston, and .035-.045" quench distance. quench is the thickness of the head gasket plus the distance the piston is down in the hole. GM uses a .015 head gasket, and .025 down the hole, which give a good quench distance of .040. what you've got is -.002 in the hole, and .039 head gasket, which gives you a .037quench distance. take into consideration manufacturing tolerances and what you have isnt very far from stock at all. BTW, "stock" gaskets range anywhere from .015-.025, depending on application. the .039 gasket you're using is a common rebuilder gasket which seals better with rough or uneven decks. there's nothing wrong with using it, it will work fine, in fact that's all i've ever run. you shouldnt have be having any problems with valve float. if you are, its not related to quench distance at all. you may want to look into your springs.

 

Actually that is highly debatable. Many people think that a small dish in the piston can produce more power then a flat top in the Vortec style chamber. This is due to the location of the spark plug, it is damn near close to dead center of the chamber Vs. a traditional chamber where the spark plug is very close to the tall wall in the chamber. With the centering of the plug, a dish allows for a very even and uniformed travel of the flame front for a more complete and powerfull burn.

Agreed, things are safe over .035. As you get close to .030 you run the risk of a piston slapping into the head if you have loose piston skirt clearances, which you may with a forged slug. If you want more peace of mind you can pick up .002 of quench with a Felpro 1003, it is .041

 

i used to sell GM Performance Parts. right after the Vortec head swap became very popular, i did quite a bit of reasearch on them. they are designed to be used with a flat top or D cup piston for maximum combustion efficiency. i mistakenly forgot to add the D cup pistons into my post. you are correct.

 

yeah what you fella's just said bottom line is that lil motor runs good. when i get it back racing in the spring it'll likely have a new carb to boot.

The quench hieght is on the tight side of where it should be... no i really shouldn't worry about float with the pistons hitting and what not.. but with a hydraulic flat tappet cam over 6500 i still do a lil.

I've been reading some of the other posts about with the Vortec. vs the AFR debate.. heck. I'd still take my Vortecs over AFR's, on my lil 355. 855 was a very reasonable price for the heads i got, and they work very well in the range i need them to.

I woulda have to give up dinner for that 10 months as well as lunch to pay for the afr's instead of just brown bagging it at lunch