I saw this on scoggy-dickens web site:

http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...2657&pid=60330

I figure that the bottom end of the 350 hp ramjet is more or less the L98. It got me wondering what it would take to put this on top of a L98. Obviously you'd need the vortec/fastburn heads. The stock prom obviously would have to go also. The question is though, would the stock ecm be able to control this with a custom prom (say from ed wright, I don't have the time or patience to do it myself) or is it out of reach w/out an aftermarket ecm?

Would you need anything else to make this swap?

Hell, does anyone run this already?

...I have always wanted a ramjet in my z, and this seems like it could be a whole lot easier than dropping in the crate engine.

 

umm Why couldnt you run this on your stock computer?

You would need to burn a prom removing EGR function as there is no provision for it. I dont know of anyone that has done it, but know plenty of people who have thought about it including myself. Other then programing your own chip, I dont see the problem with using the intake. Im sure you could use accels gen VII set up or some other type of aftermarket EFI thats more tuner friendly.

 

Seems it would be more cost effective to buy a HSR, looks very simliar and about half the cost. Of course if you want the RamJet look then I guess that is what you need to get. Don't see why you couldn't re-use most of your current stuff on it to speed up the install.

And what happend to the Spartans last week? I am a Spartan fan in A2 so it sucks when they lose. Hope the kick OSU's buttocks this Sat.

Sparty on dude!

 

Thanks for the replies fellas.

Big Al-

I definatally don't want to go with the 1500+ dollar accel DFI unit, yet. Thats why I was wondering if our computers could handle this type of intake with some custom tuning. I am thinking some problems could arise with the IAC and TPS because the throttle body on the ramjet is off a LS1. I would imagine that these components would be updated considering the LS1 is almost 20yrs newer than the L98. You'd think there'd be some compatablity issues here. Getting rid of the emmisions stuff is obviously no biggie with a custom burn.

Fevre-

A HSR is cheaper, but I don't think it has the same creditability as the ramjet intake. I am not biased towards the ramjet becase of the looks. Look at it this way: The major differences between the ramjet and the L98 is the intake and the heads (the camshaft is nearly identical). They say the vortec heads are worth 40 hp on an otherwise stock L98. That leaves another 60-70hp on the table to get to the 350hp produced by the ramjet that could be accredited to the intake itself. This is impressive, but I wouldn't put these types of gains past the HSR. The difference is were the power is at. The peak hp is at 5200rpm for the ram jet. The torque is at 367 ft.lbs. at a mere 1600 rpm, and peaks at 400 at 3500 rpm. That is one hell of a flat and usable(on the street) torque curve, and I would put money on the fact that the HSR can't even get close to that type of torque at any point in the power band let alone at 1600 rpm. It's a tunnel ram for crying out loud, we all know what those do to low end torque on carbed applications. Sorry asbout the rant, but I don't think the HSR is even in the same ballpark.

About the spartans. Our football season this year has been a miricale, and I think the big guy can be thanked for it (John L Smith that is). The fact of the matter is though, the spartans didn't deserve to win last saturday. As much as it hurts me to say it, the wolverines just out played us. I do think that we were capable to beat them, but just not last weekend. Oh well, we still have a killer season going with a bowl game already clinched. And yes, sparty on!

So back to the point of this post. Can a 165 ecm control a ramjet intake with help from a custom prom???? Would there be anymore complication from putting a ramjet intake and vortec heads on an L98?????

 

Custom length throttle cable needed. The RamJet linkage is on the passenger side.

From what I've read it can be done(165ECM). And I too agree that this is a worthwile combo.

I plan on doing it next year for a bracket racer, not my GTA.

Can you please keep us upto date with your progress.

 

Just my observation, but I think you'd need to convert to a 730 (SD) ECM, since the RJ doesn't use a MAF, correct?

If you were to use a MAF/165 combo, does the our MAF work/fit on the TB for the RJ? You wouldn't be able to use a 4rthgen MAF with the 165 ECM.

 

as long as he stuck the MAF in front of it, he'll be OK..




as long as the TPS and IAC work the same way as the stock TPI ones did, i think it could be done without a prob...

you may end up with some snags, as i havent heard of anyone actually DOING it yet.... but theres only one way to find out...


the only potential prob i can think of is the big oil pressure sensor on the back of alot of FI 3rdgens.... its friggen huge.... i donno if the inake would clear it.. if it doesnt, you could use the later model 2 in 1 oil pressure switch and sender combo like my 91 has...


other then thoes 3 issues, (TPS, IAC and oil sender) i dont see why it wouldnt work... the manifold is flowing air...



oh, and if the TB cable attaches from the pass side then you need a custom cable....


also dont forget the kickdown somehow....

 

Yeah, I cold see that, problem would be adapting the MAF (if it's different size) to the bellows tube coming off the TB.

Then again, guess if it's all they're all the same size, shouldn't be an issue.

 

hes still using the same stock MAF.

the only thing thats changing is the TB,plenum, runners, fuel rails and base are being swapped for the ramjet units parts.

in other words all the same sensors, just a dif path for the air to flow.


his "prob" will be getting the stock bellows tube from the MAF to the intake... but it will fit... look at this pic, (same throttlebody)

 

You know.. a thought... maybe one could make a metal braket that will adapt a TPI TB to the ram jet? It would look hella awkward IMO. But other then the Mini III, there isnt much out there for EFI Vortec.

 

Doesn't the ram-jet only fit vortec/fastburn heads?

 

right... but its one of the only F/I intakes that do fit vortec.

 

Just FYI, you CAN modify an LT-4 intake to work with vortec / fastburn heads (just like the Milican LT-1 intake for regular heads).

 

from the orignal first post

 

OK.......so I skimmed through the post and didnt read everything before I replied.


I'd still rather use an LT-4 intake!

Maybe when money permits..........hmmmm............

 

Umm ok.. let me know when you find an LT4 intake. Last time I checked, the LT4 was very rare on vettes and even more rare on fbodies. Does GM sell them?

 

Um yea, GM does sell them! They are available from any GM dealership parts dept. You'd still need fuel rails though, but they are also available.

And it's WAY cheaper than the TPIS mini-ramIII.

 

umm, the new summit catalog has lt-4 intakes in it, in the new products section. List price 229.95.

 

Dustin Mustangs, right way to go!As some people noted a bit hard on the money side but if the provided data is right.....cool flat curve starting early to fry the tires!


Making a maf tubing should be a problem, any new ideas on the ECM to make it run?accel 7 1500+ where did you get that price?

Got a LT4 Intake brand new and was thinking of butchering it like "Milican" but as stated a head convo would be needed!
Has someone used a LT4 intake on a "LT1" convo?

After storing a F.I.R.S.T Unit i guess we just but that in the basement for the right time/Combo to come

 

Went to the tpis website 900$ for the intake hahahah no wonder they all butcher a stock lt1 to get a miniram

 

Thanks for all the replies.

I don't think the MAF complication is anything to go back to the drawing boards for. All it comes down to is some custom duct-work on the way to the throttle body. Worst case scenario is a conversion to a 749 ecm with a MAP sensor instead. Even though I wanted to know if a 165 ecm was capable, a 749 is the next cheapest thing, and at this point in my cars life cost is a major concern, hence me not considering the obvious option of going with DFI. Either way, I don't think this is too big a bump in the road. I also think that the 749 is a more viable option due to the fact that the power levels that the RJ are capable of are approaching the flow limits of a MAF.

The cable concerns aren't a problem either. You can get extended cables for retrofit TPI apps from companies like locar.

I still think the biggest complication would be the IAC, TPS and possibley the oil pressure sender as brought up by Mr. Dude. I found this post ( https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...+throttle+body ) that seems to say that the LS1 IAC and TPS will work with the wiring harness from a TPI car, but it doesn't really reference any real life experince to back it up with. So does anyone know for sure the compatablity of the LS1 IAC and TPS with the TPI ecms or for that matter the compatablity of the TPI IAC and TPS with the LS1 throttle body????

By the way I do also realize that there are more intake options availible(LT1/4, Miniram, HSR, Acell SR, ect.) but the point of this post is to see if the RJ manifold is a possible swap also.

 

I'd run the RJ manifold with a Holley C950 ECU for less than half what the Accel DFI is. It is speed density, so no MAF headaches. Personally I would not be be happy with the limits of the Vortec heads, though. The AFR/HSR combo works very well for me.

 

Ricktpi: 12 sec? wheres the beef?383 cubs..Mhmm!

what holley kit nr did you use ?
nice burnout there...LOL

510-91503201 MPFI Kit w/24 lb/hr Injectors $2289.99 510-81503001 Power Pack w/24 lb/hr Injectors $1749.99
this are jeg prices!making the commander ecu 540$

somebody with other prices?

 

Just curious, why not run the ECM and wiring harness available for the RJ?

I'm considering the 350 Ramjet swap also. Does anybody know if a 1991 V8 serpentine belt setup will work on the Ramjet? Not to many people running this engine or at least I am unable to find anybody to ask questions.


FYI, I talked to a guy via email (can't recall where I got his email addy) that knows someone who runs the 350 Ramjet. With chip tuning and headers the engine dynoed more than the 350 HP advertised.

 

Has no closed loop feature. Just runs off given info.

 

Matt-

As BigAl stated there is no closed loop. This isn't a big deal to me, but it is bad news for smog tests. The main resons for me are the fact that its one more thing to buy and it doesn't even come close to controlling all the things the stock ecm does (cruise controll, ac and the torque converter are the main ones). Also, running your serp setup will work just fine on a rj. The mounting holes for accesories are standard on all chevy small block heads (maybe not the LS1 though?). Worst case scenario you'd loose a mounting point or two that were on the TPI intake itself. I am not sure if the serps mount here, but I know my V-belt does on my '87. Mine aren't criticle and can just be deleted, and I assume if you have some on the manifold it's the same case. Also, is this guy your talking about running a stock ecm or the rj one or what? Expand on this more please.

Does anyone have anything on these throttle body issues I mentioned above? Maybe I just need to go to the dealership and ask the part desk dudes.

 

Dustin,
Emissions issues are a problem for me so I guess I will have to go another route to replace the LO3 (65K original miles) this winter in my 1991.

As I understand it, the guy is running the RJ ECM. Reprogrammed. See below. The car is a 1984 Monte Carlo.

Here is the email from the guy with the 350 RJ:

So far I have been pleased with my set up. I recently installed a TCI 700R4 and a Moser Engineering 9" Ford posi rearend (3.50). I get about 23 mpg at 70 mph with out the AC on. I had Arizona Speed and Marine re-program the MEFI controller to lean up the fuel map. I also installed an O2 sensor so it runs 'closed loop'. Here is their web site: http://www.azspeed-marine.com/. I thought about going with a serpentine system and I think I will in the future. As you have already mentioned the 'high' mount set up may not work. I simply re-used all the components from my original setup (I bought this car new in 1983). I plan to look into March's 'wide' mount setup. But, I will wait until the AC compressor goes then I'll purchase the Sanden compressor from Zoops. The ducting I found on the internet. A company in Canada that sells diesel parts had them (huntera@cadvision.com). The 12" section of aluminnum pipe I purchased from : http://www.burnsstainless.com/. The air filter is a K&N again, found the size I needed on the internet then ordered it from Summit. The engine has just a bit of lope (sounds real good with the 1 5/8" Hookers, 2 1/2" duals, Flow Master 50's). I put in a Nordskog digital instrument cluster. This cluster will give you 1/4mile time, zero to 60 time, and top speed. Running low 13's to high 12's (it's very hot here in Phoenix). I am now looking for a good NO2 setup with a progressive controller that ties into the TPS. Venom has one. I am running 255 x 45 x 17" in the rear and
it smokes them thru 1st and when you shift (or the tranny shifts on its own) into 2nd it smokes for about 20 feet. Vacuum is fine. I have not seen any problems even though ALL my environmental controls are vacuum driven.

You will be very pleased at how well this engine runs. It starts with just a bump of the starter every time hot or cold(well it does not get cold in Phoenix). Make sure you prime the oil system before you start the engine. Set the base timing
and you won't need to touch a thing. I followed the manuals break in recommendations. I have about 6,000 miles on mine and the only thing I have done is change the oil a 3/4 times.

 

Thanks for the detailed reply matt. You made it sound like he was running it off of a stock ecm and you got my hopes up! Oh well, no biggie.

So, let me hammer this one more time. Can anyone verify the compatability of a LS1 throttle body with TPI TPS and IAC components or the compatability of LS1 TPS and IAC components with a L98 harness/ecm????????????



I am going to poke around a little more today and see if I can't get to the bottom of this myself. For anyone that cares I'll report back if I find anything.

 

the only thing i got was that i was told by a GM tech that they should work. i know the LT1 throttle body uses the same TPS readings... what you might have to do is go on a 4thgen site and find out what the TPS range is suppost to be and compare that with what the TPI computer expects.


worse comes to worse, you may be able to get someone to mod the programming to accept a diff range and have it send a diff signal to the IAC... but GM likes to keep stuff to their "standard" so theres a great chance that it didnt change....

i know that doesnt help much, perhaps someone with a GM service manual can help you more?

 

OK - I found a couple of things out. I am by no means an electrical engineer, but I think the wire diagrams match up, even the lead colors are the same on the two different TPS's. The schematics of the two different IAC motors seem to be the same, two coils with high and low leads for each. You can see what I am talking about here:

RJ IAC and TPS wiring
TPI wiring diagrams See the TPI V8 vin f links 2 and 3 near the end of the list

Feel free to deny me the fact that these will work together if you think these diagrams don't seem to be similar, if not the same. When I get some free time I am going to call Ed Wright and see what they have to say about this. It looks like it could actually work.

Opinions anyone???

 

go for it and take pics as you go!

 

Dustin,
Could you email me all of the wiring diagrams you have for the 350 Ramjet so I can look at them in detail.
BTW, where did find the wiring diagrams for the RJ?
Email to banjoid_99@yahoo.com
Thanks

 

You got it mr dude. One thing though, a sponser would speed up progress considerably. I accept paypal and personal checks.

In the event that this swap does get underway anytime soon, with the dudes help or not, I would certainly keep all my buds at thirdgen.org completely up to date.

Matt, no email necceasary. I belive the entire manual that comes with the ramjet is posted here. The wiring diagrams are down below in the second list.

Some 3rd gen ramjet reading for anyone interested is available here .

:hail: