Hey guys, I think I'll be picking up a plasma cutter to take care of my bodywork needs (see https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=108890 for the details on what I've gotta do!), but I'm not sure which one to go with. Okay, well, I'm 90% sure... but thought I'd ask your opinions.

I'll always be using this for cars; I doubt I'll ever need to cut anything larger than 3/16th steel, but all three of these will sever 1/4 inch. (The LE unit will sever 3/8th!!)

1. Hypertherm Powermax 190C, see http://www.hypertherm.com/manual/pmax190c.htm

2. Hobart AirForce 250A, see http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/airforce250a.html

3. Lincoln Electric Pro-Cut 25, see http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...heet.asp?p=451

I really like the Lincoln Electric ProCut 25... for a few reasons. First is, my mig is made by LE, and I like the quality. Second is, it can run on 115 or 230 volts with just changing the power cord! Right now I'd run at 115, but eventually I'd get a garage and run 230 lines, and I wouldn't have to buy another plasma cutter to take advantage of 230volt power.

And finally- It doesn't have a built-in compressor!! To me, having a built-in compressor (like the Hypertherm & Hobart cutters) is just one more thing to break. Plus, I already have an air compressor! Portability isn't something I need, or even want... any cutting I do will be at my house, not in a field somewhere, or on the side of the road.

Also, the ProCut 25 is the only one that can sever 3/8th inch. The other guys are just rated up to 1/4 inch. That sounds (to me) like the extra $$ that Hypertherm and Hobart put into making a built-in compressor went into making a better cutter with higher power.

Any of you guys use these? Has anyone used both (or all three)? Are they all pretty much the same? What's your opinions on the built-in air compressor?

Oh and I know there's lesser cost ones out there, like Firepower and NuTecSys and "Chicago Electric", but I'd rather stick with one of these three. I know I can always get consumables easily for Hypertherm/Hobart/LE...

The one thing that's confusing me is: I drove to a welding shop that is a big-time LE supplier. The guy recommended the Hypertherm to me, and said it was the better unit over the LE! He even said that even though they're primarily an LE Shop, he likes the Hypertherm better. I would've bought it immediately- but it's got that damn built-in air compressor, AND, I can't convert it to 230 volt- I'd have to buy another plasma cutter.

Thanks!

 

i know nothing about them, the specs or anything.

but ive never known anyone to have a problem with Lincoln stuff, and im pretty sure thats the same one that we used at the chassis shop, so i say get the Lincoln.

 

We have the lincoln Pro-Cut 25 at work and it is used in production 5 days a week.
Hade it for three years and not one thing has gone wrong with it yet.

 

How much is that Hypertherm 190C? I have a Hypertherm 380, that doesn't have a built in compressor, and be converted from 115 to 230. It doesn't get used much, but I love it when I need it. Was awesome for cutting a hole in my crossmember

I think the 380 goes for around 1,200.

 

Thanks for the responses, guys!

MrDude, that's a biggie... I haven't had any problems with my Lincoln welder. On that alone, I'd buy Lincoln forever; but I'm an "idiot" as far as other brands- so I don't want to miss out on anything else good. Of course, price is also a huge factor ($200 comes from my tax refund), and so far, the Lincoln model is the most expensive.

Slow88lb9, 3 years? Cool! Can the torch be dragged across the metal? The Hypertherm and Hobart info claims that their torches can, but the LE site doesn't mention it.

AmorgetRS, the 190C and the Hobart Airforce 250A are both $1000. (Hobart is $999 and 190C is $1050) The guy didn't show me the 380- maybe because I mentioned I had 115 volt outlets? Hm.

But your model (the 380) seems more likely the "competitor" against the Lincoln model, especially in price. Eastwood Company (eastwoodco.com) has the LE ProCut 25 for $1140. But that one seems more what I want... no compressor, and 115/230 switchable. WOAH! That thing can sever 1/2"?? See http://www.hypertherm.com/manual/pmax_380.htm !

Okay, well I think that knocks the Hobart out of the ring. Hm. Just did a search. Seems like the Hobart AirForce 400 is the competition between the Pro Cut 25 and the Hypertherm 380. So... Hobart Airforce 250A and Hypertherm 190C must be the entry-level boxes; and Lincoln Electric doesn't make an entry-level box. Well, that clears up a bit of confusion at least!

So now, the top 2 are the Hypertherm 380 versus LE ProCut 25. I guess I gotta see what kind of deal I can get on the 380.

 

Hey... uh... anybody know why the Miller Spectrum 375 Cutmate looks almost Exactly like the Hypertherm 380? With even the same weight??

Miller spec sheet: http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/PC9-1.pdf

Hypertherm sheet: http://www.hypertherm.com/manual/pdfs/pmx380rev4.pdf

Anyone know who copied who? These aren't the same company, right?

[edit] Found this link, read the page from the "bottom-up", seems that Miller copied Hypertherm? https://www.lake-link.com/forums/boa...hread_ID=20572

 

Glad I could help :-)

 

Tom. I'm a certified welder, and while I dont' have a lot of experience with a plasma cutter, I've used one on several occasions that will cut up to 1". From what I've seen, a plasma cutter really is excessive for body work, unless you plan on doing roll cages, or frame work. You'd probably be better off using the $1000 you're probably dropping on that plasma cutter, and investing in a good shear, or bandsaw.

Mathius

 

I know that hobart is owned by miller..
I have worked doing shut downs for oil and gas all up and down the gulf 8 out of 10 of the corporations Ive worked at always have miller equipment on cite and the others rarely will be lincohn.
I would personally purchase the miller/hobart just for the fact that they have a good dependable reputation not for the fact that Im trying to save money. I was wondering how a box that small is going to keep up a 60 psi pressure on a long cut..? Has anyone in here tried one yet?

 

tom i'm a certified dumabss so don't listen to anything i have to say. i'd buy one with out a compresser or power supply. miller makes one like that and i bet most others do too. just a plasma unit you connect to air and another welder. only works if you have another welder. all in all i'd look at miller too. never liked hobart machines but i know lot of people do. you also need to look at replacement parts cost and how easy they are to get.

 

Yeah, it's definately overkill... but I figure I'll be using it in the future, too. That's why I'm skipping the cheaper units (like an $800 Firepower)- I just want to buy this thing once, and use it for the next 50 years. Of course, I won't be using it daily (or possibly even monthly!!), so I think it'll last that long. I went through this same "mental argument" with myself when I bought my MIG... I could've gotten a $200 unit, but wanted one that would last forever- not something I'd be re-buying in a few years because I needed extra capacity.

The Hypertherm 380 and Miller 375 are definately overkill; I'll never work on a car that I need to cut 1/2" with! I'll be taking some frame away when I replace that back right of my car, but the framerails on the f-bodies are maybe 1/8th inch. But- I know I won't be working a smaller box at it's limit.

Rob, I'm slowly finding that out thru the internet searching I'm doing. Seems like everybody has a Lincoln Electric welder, but a different brand of plasma cutter. It also seems like the big corporations (like manufacturing and your oil companies) don't use Lincoln Electric. And I just noticed Monster Garage uses ESAB! Ugh.

Ede, I didn't think of that route! I'll check it out. I'd need a different type of welder than I have now though, right?

I think I've pretty much decided against the Hobart though; it's down to either the Hypertherm 380 or the Miller 375. But the damn units are so friggin' identical that it's ticking me off- I'm going to try calling around and seeing who makes who. Maybe Miller just bought Hypertherm's technology? Hey... I'll dig around online and try to find a joint that sells both units, and check prices.

Thanks guys!!! Funny how I was almost sworn on that Pro Cut 25, and now I'm going with two cutters that I didn't even know about until yesterday!

 

We have about 20 hyper therms we use here nice units. Parts for the tips can cost a pretty penny . Hypertherm makes a nice unit. Don't knock esab I have a cutter here thats 15 years old finally replaced the motherboard this year this is a cutter thats invloved with alot of flying grit around it. But hypertherm does havea better cut quality than esab. If your only doing sheet metal
work I would recommend a nibbler before a cutter. With a nibbler you won't have to clean the flash up like you will with a plasma cutter. Just my 2 cents. Also might want to look at auctions might find a nice used one for alot cheaper.





Dynodan

 

yeah tom you'd need a dc stick machine, but then if you added a torch you could have dc tig and a power source for your plasma cutter.

 

Oh, I wasn't knocking ESAB.. the "ugh" was more of a reference to the mess I put myself in by looking at every damn plasma cutter available.

Shoot, I had a feeling it wouldn't work. Well, I'll check into that power supply option anyway. If it's the best- and within my max $1200 price range, I'll check it out!

HYPERTHERM'S ANSWER

Straight from Hypertherm themselves, the similarity between the Hypertherm 380 and Miller Spectrum 375 is explained! Miller makes the Hypertherm 380!!!! Miller sells Hypertherm the cutter!! The lady said that this is the only cutter that isn't made 100% by Hypertherm! I asked about the 190C, and she said that the 190C is completely made by Hypertherm.

MILLER'S ANSWER

Straight from Miller themselves: Both cutters, the Hypertherm 380 and the Spectrum 375 were developed as a "collaborative effort". They have the same transformers, same firing boards, the only difference is the consumables- one electrode is slightly longer than the other. (I didn't ask which was which.)


So there's the big answer. It's funny because when I asked these questions, both companies stuttered a bit on the phone- I threw them off. I bet they're not asked that question too often!

As for other things I found, here's one website, http://www.welders-direct.com/ , where right on the main page, the Hypertherm 380 goes for $1150, and the Miller Spectrum 375 goes for $1300. I can't seem to find another website that sells both units!

Also found this thread http://moab.off-road.com/pipermail/d.../msg03905.html , keep clicking "next by thread" to read the whole discussion. One guy thinks of Hypertherm as the industrial version of a cutter, and the guy who wrote the very last message says LE and Miller buy their parts from other companies. But that doesn't really apply to these two cutters.

Then I found this article http://cuagain.manilasites.com/stories/storyReader$57 where the guy went with Miller over Hypertherm because of a sale price. The last paragraph cheered me up!

So, that's everything I've found; mystery solved. Just keeping everyone posted! Next I'm going to look into what ede mentioned- but I have a feeling it won't work with my welder. If that's the case, I'll just take the two units and compare based on price. I guess the only real choice then is "Which brand do ya like?" Miller guys will probably go with Miller. And Miller does seem more into the Motorsports area, but Hypertherm is more into the industrial area... so bridge builders and tin knockers would probably go after the Hypertherm. In fact- I bet that's why the two collaborated on the cutter; they each have their own "side" of the industry as customers.

Anyway, I'm just rambling. But at least this would put an end to anyone saying "You bought A? You should have bought B!" And I feel so much better for knowing that "Hey man, A and B are the same."

 

taaake C!

 

tom speaking of motorsports, lincoln is a nhra major sponser and usually has specials at the track, if you ever make any nhra national events.

 

I've never been to one ... always meant to go, though. Kinda stupid since Raceway Park is 15 minutes away from my house!

But oh man, I'm gonna be broke for a while... $1300 is gone... to be replaced with the Miller Spectrum 375 cutmate!

Why the decision? Well, I did some closer checking, and Miller won over Hypertherm because:

http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o2229k_mil.pdf

1. includes a built-in 5 micron air filter (see page 28 of owners manual at http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o2229k_mil.pdf , it's item #15 in the "exploded view")

2. they sell a nifty standoff roller guide that I could pick up if I didn't want to do drag cutting, online, it's about $20, see http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...ccessories.php . Hypertherm didn't show one anywhere on their website- not to say that I couldn't make one, of course, but...

3. My car is blue, and so is the Miller box. Thanks to Mom for pointing that one out!

So there ends the long overly-drawn-out search!

A heads-up tho for anyone searching for a plasma cutter and wanting a deal- keep in mind I'm not sure of the credibility of these websites, but here's what I found.

Lincoln Pro-Cut 25, $1020, free ship: http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p000189.htm
Hypertherm 380, $1050: http://www.weilerwelding.com/shopsit...ypertherm.html

I actually went locally; in case there's any problems. That explains the bum deal I got. Actually tho, some websites I found were selling the box for $1399 and up! I'll probably be buying the consumables online tho, or maybe even off of eBay. (Not much can go wrong with pieces of copper!) I'm going to be firing this thing up on Saturday to see how it does!

 

WOW... I mean Wow!! That thing is FUN!

Hooked it up, and started slicing up an old muffler I had in the backyard- it's amazing how straight a line I can do with the roller guide! (If I try it by hand, fuhgetaboutit, the line's all shaky) But it cuts nicely... the "gas test" position on the Miller box was great. I powered up the compressor and set the amperage **** (on the plasma cutter) to the gas test position, and "bop bop bop"- the cutter was actually pulsing the gas out of the gun! The orange "low pressure" light came on until I finished turning up the air pressure at my compressor's regulator.

And after I let up on the trigger, the cutter kicks in the "air cooled" feature for 20 seconds. I installed my drier at the plasma cutter's inlet as "extra protection". This cutter has a built-in air dryer, but hey, an extra one on the outside can't hurt.

It's hard to manually cut with the torch when I try to keep a 1/16th inch standoff. I always wind up dragging the torch or lifting it up too high. When I lift it too high, it stops cutting, and throws sparks back at me (they bounce off the metal). When I get close enough again, the spark turns greenish, pops thru the metal, and resumes cutting.

I had my auto-dim helmet on during all of this; it only dimmed a few times. Do I need a welding helmet? The sparks didn't seem as bright as welding... could I do okay with just a face shield or goggles?

One problem though... with the air cooling feature, the compressor kicks in more often. When the compressor kicks in, the plasma cutter doesn't get enough juice out of that outlet to run. I have to wait for the compressor to stop, then I can cut again. We only have one outlet in the garage. I figured I'd run an extension cord into the house into another outlet, but needed a thick enough cord.

So... I went to Home Depot and bought a 50 foot, 10 gauge, 125 volt, 15 amp extension cord for $50. I checked with the guy that worked there, he told me the cord could actually be rated 30 amp 220 volt, but because of the plugs that were molded to the plug, that's why it was rated 15 amp. He said it could even extend a clothes dryer- SWEET! The Miller is switchable to 220 volt!

So I bought that $50 cord, and a 20 amp receptacle for $10, and a dryer-style plug for $9. The Miller has a 20 amp 115 volt plug on it, so instead of cutting the plug off the brand-new cutter (and forever restricting myself to 220 volt outlets), I just put the 20 amp receptacle onto the extension cord. Then I used the original cord's receptacle with the new dryer plug to make an "adapter". Now I can use the extension cord either with 220 volts for my plasma cutter, or with 120 volts for my welder.

My digital cam's batteries were dead... they're charging up now. As soon as they're charged, I'll post a pic of what I did to that extension cord.

Next weekend I'll be trying this cutter out at 220 volts! Thanks again to everyone! This thing is fun as hell!

 

I like most of Miller's equipment. I've used their arc welders, and mig welders and preferred their arc welder over the Hobart's and Lincoln's we had in the lab. The lincoln's had a crank jobby for the voltage setting that was pretty annoying.

I have a big lincoln idealarc 200 (I think that's right), that belongs to a friend of mine, it's an arc welder converted to a MIG, and the MIG feeder has a very odd feature that is supposed to keep you from getting "bird's nests" what happens is, if you run the gun at the wrong angle, the wire feed will just stop. It's rather annoying. I much prefer the Miller's we use at the welding lab.

Mathius

 

I guess I'm a little late here, but I've had my Lincoln Pro-Cut 40 for about 4 years now, and it's been great. I purchased it used from the Lincoln Motorsports program, as their factory sponsored teams upgrade to the new equipment, I got their old stuff pretty cheap (well under $1k). It's never failed me.

 

Tom, I don't use a welding helmet, I just use sun glasses. The darker the sunglasses the better, and I know I *shouldn't* just use sunglass, but I do.

They are a blast to work with, aren't they

 

Plasma cutters are fuN

 

I just got mine in the mail. It is a miller 625, it takes 220vac at 40amps. It is rated to cut 5/8'' steel and will burn throug 1/2'' steel all day long.
They are a lot of fun, I can do a lot more with this plasma torch now.
I don't have the voltage line drop like you but my compressor isn't big engough, because it is a japinese comperssor it's motor was wound for 100vac and I have 127 out of my out lets so I used a long cheap extention cord to drop the voltage to about 110 while the compressor is on, when I get a second one it shoud drop it even closer to 100vac.
I got the big one because of its long duty cycle (5 on and 5 off), the smaller ones that cut around 3/8 to a 1/2'' have a duty cycle of like 2 minuts on and 4 or 5 minutes off, I used one like that in high school it had a 2-8 minute duty cycle it was a good plasma cutter but it p!ssed me off every 2 minutes like clock work. For now I can only use mine for about 15seconds at a time and that air cool thing takes a lot of air from my lil compressor next pay day I am going get a second one and use my spare air tank on there also.
I made a 10 meter long power cord for it out of some 4-12 wire I got from a local hard ware store. because I didn't want to have to use it in the laundry room or kichen.
It was the biggest one I could get the model above the miller 625 took single or 3 phase 440-675 volt power if I rember right, I don't have any thing like that wired into my house.

 

Mathius, I think my LE mig has something like that on it... if I goof up and weld the end of the wire to the workpiece, even though I still have the trigger pulled and gas is still flowing, the wirefeed shuts off. Same thing happens if I weld the wire to the tip. Uh, I don't do that often... every 3 or 5 years of course...

Askulte, looks like you got a great deal! I can't find the Pro-Cut 40 on their website anymore; just the Pro-Cut 55. I probably should've done some more hunting...

I've gotta call that welding shop and see what they recommend for safety equipment... I'm betting safety goggles are all I need, just so sparks don't fly into my eye.

Well, no more voltage drop! Tried the cutter out on 220 volts yesterday- Wow! I'm good to go! I cranked it up to 27 amps and proceeded to knife up my old door. Funny how it acted differently when I was cutting thru the door instead of just scraps of bare steel. Made a hell of a stink, too, with the paint cooking off. Next time I'll just drag a grinder down the paint. My auto-dimming helmet actually dimmed a few times, too, but I think it was b/c of the paint burning?

I forgot to snap a pic of the extension cord/adapter setup; I'll try and do that tonight. The cord is 10/3 gauge! I did get my friend to take this picture, though.

 

Here's the cord!

 

That is a geat idea, I'll be doing something like that for mine :-)

 

That's a nice cord.
They don't have any thing like that over here, I looked for a month all over my little part of northern japan.
I had to make mine from a 3/10 drier cord, 10m of 4/12 wire and crimp it to the part of the orignal cord because I didn't want to take the hole thing apart and wire in the new cord.
Heres mine it's all I could realy do if I wanted to use my plasma cutter. Note the over sized japinese air connector on the inlet filter, these guys are hard core metric users over here but they use standard pipe threds .
I had no problem screwing that japinese air fitting in the air in let of that cutter.
See the hose clamp where the 4/12 and factory cord join, I did that so they won't pull apart. The drier cord and 4/12 cord are soldered together.

 

Actually, I don't think sunglasses would be too far off, except that they don't have side shields. I can't remember the exact shade, I'd have to look it up, but it was somewhere between 6 and 8 was recommended for cutting.

You would use the same protection with a plasma cutter that you use with acetylene cutting. Any local welding store of any quality should be able to just give you a cutting shade shield, or glasses.

Mathius

 

My plasma cutter starts at a shade of 2 for the low amp cuting and goes up to 9 for the full power cutting.
The recomandations are in the manual.
I have seen plenty of sungasses that are up to maybe a 4 (the real dark mirror ones mainly) a lot of them are around 2.

 

Oil pan, cool cord "fix"! I'm surprised that Japan didn't have any larger cords... I guess there's not too many industrial-type people out there? And yeah, that air fitting does look a little weird. Can you change the element in that filter? It looks sealed. I have a set of dessicant-filled filters that I was going to use on my paint gun... but they're "throwaways" at $8/set, so maybe I'll just use them on my cutter.

Mathius, thanks for the tip on the lenses... my autodim helmet is pre-set to dim "just" to 9. It's not an adjustable... I got it from the local store and spent "too much" ($180) on it.

I went with the store instead of mail order b/c they said if I ever have a problem just bring it back and they'll give me a new one b/c of the warranty- it's a Hornell Speedglas Utility helmet. If I went mail order, if anything happened, I'd be waiting for shipping and all that junk.

Maybe I'll call the store and ask 'em what they recommend. The Miller book I have didn't mention anything about what shade lens... uh... okay well I don't remember seeing that, but I'll check tonight. I guess since the Miller 625 (oilpan's) was more expensive, it came with a better manual!

 

Tom, my autodarkening helmet was adjustable from 10-13, and 10 was far too dark to be able to comforably see to cut.

The lenses I'm talking about are only about $10, and well worth the added vision.

Mathius

 

The filter I picked up for 1500 Yen has a replaceable element and it's real cheap. It was a llittle over priced some thing just like it in a lows or home depo would be about $10 at the most.
Those fittings are about half way beteen a 1/4'' and 1/2'' standard fitting.
Now all I need is 170 L/min of air and I'll be all set.
That cord is just from a hard ware store kind of like a Japinese wal-mart at about $6 a yard I wouldn't beable to go much bigger even if I could find a bigger cord.