Well I just ran 1 analog output of my LM1 meter to pin D8 of the ECM, hoping to get the AFR into the scan tool datastream. I am using the GM OB1 scan tool from Ease Diagnostics. I did not see the AFR data from the LM1 in the scan. The info I got says this parameter should be outputted in the "commanded air/fuel ratio" parameter. But I don't have this parameter in my scan tool. All i have is this thing called "total fuel/air value", which is just a big number like 0-64000. It runs around 600-650 at idle.

I talked to the folks at EASE, and they said it was just some binary number in the ALDL data stream, might not have anything to do with AFR. I think the 90-92 speed density systems have the commanded AFR parameter in the Ease tools.

So am I just screwed trying to make this work? Can I run this output into another pin at the ECM? I didn't see anything that would really work. Some folks using the CCP line? Do I have to goto another scan tool, and start all over? I have alot invested in the EASE tool. I suppose could buy the $99 rpm converter module from IM, and wire up a few inputs to it, and get some data thru the LM1 logger. Just don't want to go that route if I have to.

 

BTTT......anyone?

"Total Air/Fuel Value" = ???

Let me rephrase the question. Has anyone datalogged the output of their WB O2 meter thru a '165 ecm, then to a scan tool?

 

Yes.

Take a look at the patch stuff over at Mike Davis' site...

 

And how do I find his website? I did a search and could not find.
Thanks.

 

You can find a link to his site in one of the stickies at the top of this board. I think it's under "source code - modifying, patching, etc."

However, I suspect this won't be exactly what you're looking for. I don't know anything about EASE, and the patches referred to above are made to work with the output of the DIY-WB, not the LM-1. But, you might find it helpful anyway.

 

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/WB_hacs/

 

Thanks for the help. I been to that website before, and downloaded the zip file for $6Earap hacs. That is where I got the idea to run the output of the WB into pin D8 of the 165 ecm.

BUT what i just realized is that you need to use the modifed bin that Davis created.....in order to get the datalogging feature to work!!! I must have just missed that whole concept!! Now I just have to copy all my modified ARAP values all over to the new bin with Mikes modified hac.

So....TBC....

 

not really. just go to moates.net and download AFRTuner. Install it and then run it. after you start AFRTuner go to file and open your bin, then go over to where it says Binary and go to add WB hack. Just don't forget to read the HELP and make sure your bin is compatable with Mike Davis WB HACK. Thats a lot quicker than copying everything over, dont have to use the AFR part just add the WB hack.

just my .02

 

The LM1 outputs a linear AFR. Mike's WB patch is for the DIY-WB which has a curved AFR output. You would need to change the voltage to AFR table in the patch to use it accurately with the LM1.

 

I allready have the AFR tuner program. I forgot about the part where you could just add the WB modifed hac to an existing bin. That will save a bunch of time, I just have to save the bin under a different filename.

I didn't realize the patch has a non-linear AFR output. The LM1 outputs are easlily programmable. I just want to get it to work first, then worry about getting the numbers to match.

Thanks for the tips.

 

Well I just burned a new bin onto a chip with WB hac from the AFR tuner program. And I dont think it worked. First off, no constant check engine light. Isn't that supposed to be on with the modified WB hac? Also my total fuel air parameter did not show any meaning full AFR #s, just the usual stuff as before.

The only think I can think of, is after I used AFR Tuner to edit the bin, I then opened up TC and looked at some tables, but made no changes. But I did re-save the file in TunerCat. Did I loose the WB mod when I resaved the file?

 

What Bin did you use. It states in the instructions of the AFRTuner that the WB Hack only be used on AUJP, AXXC, ARAP, APYP. You probally are using one of these I just wanted to point it out so Onlookers realize this.

 

Yea i am using an ARAP based bin. Tonight I tried another chip with just adding the modified hac to my bin, and saving it, then going right to the programmer. The burn went fine, but no SES light with the chip in.

Anybody know how to email Mike Davis? I tried from the DIY-WB website but no luck.

 

Mike,
The total Air/fuel value is the correct info to use to monitor your air/fuel ratio real time with EASE. EASE doesnt do the calculation that other programs do so You'll have to manually divide 6553.6 by the numbers that you are seeing in TAV field.
You should be seeing numbers anywhere from 400 to 600.

i.e. 6553.6/600 = 10.92 AFR 6553.6/400= 16.38 AFR

This works. I have been using this method for a few months.
EASE put the patch to do this for me on their site.
You might have to play with the linear scale in the LM1.
Hope this helps,
John

 

THANK YOU jjvette!! Finally a reply that means something. This all makes sense now. As you know, I allready have the patch from Ease to add the TAFV in my scan tool. At first the number didn't mean anything to me, and the tech support at Ease was no help. Then a few weeks ago I did find post on calculating the AFR from the TAFV number, but it still didnt work on IMO. So I kind of let it die.

Then when I hooked up the LM1 WB, I didnt really see anything different. But what I did last night was go back and look at some EASE scans (pre-WB), and the calcs actually do work out. IE I get 14.7 at part-throttle, and during some WOT runs the numbers come close to the calculations i made from my PE tables. Too bad Ease doesn't do the calculation for you. Just makes it alittle more confusing trying to figure the AFR. I will have to make up a look up table so I can have real AFRs at my finger tips.

Tonight I played with output of LM1 going into the scan tool, and at least I saw some #s changing. Now I got to calibrate the analog output to the real AFR. Any tips on that?
I may send you PM or email, John.

Thanks much!:hail:

 

Mike,
I used an ajustable power supply from 1-4vd.c.. It took a few tries because I don't have a good one. I did use a few 1.5 v batteries with a variable resistance to swing the voltage input to the ecm. I monitored the TAV value with EASE to get the values to use for the LM-1 output.
Here's what I saw:
1.65vdc in showed 590 TAV which is 11.10 AFR.
2.10vdc in showed 500 TAV which is 13.10 AFR.
2.70vdc in showed 357 TAV whichis 18.35 AFR.

I did a few more points but you get the idea. Then you have to set the parameters in the LM-1 otuput accordingly. It may take a few tries to get it close.
I hope this helps.
Feel free to email me at jaylisa88@hotmail.com
John

 

I don't know if this is obvious or not, but I'll post this on the off chance that it's useful for someone who's data-logging with the LM-1. If I'm wrong on this, someone please correct me.

The output of the LM-1 is linear, so I believe the AFR relationship can be expressed as a linear equation, and/or a line on a graph (just like math class in junior high, or whenever).

Sorry if this sounds like an algebra lesson, but in my mind, it looks like this:

Let X = Vout from wideband
Let Y = referenced AFR

You'll need two data points to work with. Probably easiest to get them from the "Analog Out" tab in the LM-1 software. Then, the relationship is:

Y = (slope times X) + "y intercept"

Remember that the slope is the "rise over the run." That is, it's the difference between the AFR values (in your two data points), divided by, the difference in the Vout values. To determine "y intercept," just plug either of the two data points into the above equation, and solve for the unknown y intercept.

I'm using the LM-1 with the "ancestor" of the DIY-WB patch, which essentially outputs the raw Vout into the ALDL stream (as 0 - 25.4). I'm using Moates scanner, so I need to take the extra step of plugging the above equation into Excel as a formula to see the real AFR in my data log. I've only begun playing with this, so I'm hoping for consistent results.

 

Does this work with other scan software? I see mention of ease here, and theres a screen shot of diacom on the Davis site. Is the TAV a common field in scan software?

 

Everyone just needs to start using TunerPro. Whatever you are using now or have used in the past, TunerPro is better...

 

PLEASE email me the patch to scorp508@comcast.net as EASE has been very unhelpful to me. I even got the ALDL information from Tunercat and passed it on them (This was only a month or two ago) hoping they would make a patch for me and NOTHING came of it.

I have v2.5 right now and would upgrade to v3.0 if it had the Commanded AFR in the personal version.

 

Craig, I understand you're pushing your own product and I can appreciate that, but after spending over $300 for EASE and more $ for Tunercat I'm a little apprehensive to abondon it so swiftly.

 

Diacom and Datamaster show the Commanded AFR field. EASE personal edition v2.5 does not, but the professional version does. I've been waiting to hear if v3.0 does show it. Apparently there is a patch for v2.5 to show it, but i have not been able to get my hands on it.

 

Sorry, not trying to push one thing vs. another. TunerPro's not my product, it's Mark Mansur's. It's shareware too, and he's real responsive to issues like this. Might give it a shot, since it'll work with whatever you need it to.

ost importantly, though, is the fact that with TunerPro you can go in and make all these sorts of changes to your datastream definition yourself and then there's no problem.

Don't get me wrong, the other products are very nice. I'm just a control freak, and TunerPro gives me a few more ***** to turn.

If you're interested, I did do a quick/dirty mod for the 730 AUJP stuff that gives your AFR in the ALDL slot for FP Voltage (useless variable!). The conversin was done in TunerPro. It's a pretty quick / easy hack. This sort of approach basically externalizes the conversion/hack info so you can do the voltage-to-AFR conversion in the ALDL datastream definition rather than in the source code. So you can slip in tight little hacks in the source code and just pump out a voltage.

Anyways, something to think about. Doesn't cost anything to give it a shot other than time...

 

Well the TunerPro RT directly supports your Autoprom and the Romulator so I'd say its pretty darn close to it since he's first on your EFI links and you're firt on his realtime mentionings. I'm not trying to be critical as your hardware is outstanding and has a happy home in my vehicles as well.

I'd just hate to abandon what I know and is working for me as of this time. I'd feel like I got nothing out of it jumping this quick after spending the hard earned $.

 

I second that statement, scorp. I purchased my copy of EASE personal Plus in Sept of 1999. Where was TunerPro then? I can scan any GM vehicle 82-95 with OBDI diagnostics. I am sure there are several other good scan tools out there, but I am just not going to switch over just cuz somebody says it is better. It was hard enough for me to put out the cash for the LM1, but it will be worth it. Heck I started with Diacom, but lets not go there. Ease has been pretty good to me over the years. If you still need the patch scorp, send me PM or email, I will send it to ya.

As far as the output of the LM1, I think I will follow jjvete's advice and get a small DC supply and a good DMM, and just take some data points. That way I can program the end points in the analog out of the LM1.

 

Mike you've got a PM concerning the patch!

 

Damnit! You're right. I'm an a-hole for not releasing my (free) software 3 years earlier. ;-)

 

I should mention that I do support Craig's hardware. Someone has to! Why shouldn't I?

The Romulator is not Craig's. It's Xtronics (or Transtronics, I can never remember who is who). And TunerPro certainly isn't a Transtronics product. I support the Romulator becuase its cool, its affordable, and its being *used* by people who use my software.

I'm independent. TunerPro existed before Craig's AutoProm or Flash & Burn. I support these (and the Romulator) because I own them and use them (or intend to). And support for other hardware is coming, again, because I own and use them, or because I think many others do, or because I think I can write interface software better than whats out there (regardless of that being the truth or not). I do it for me. I do it because its fun. And I do it for free. =)

I'm sorry you spent so much on your current equipment and software. I know how annoying that can be. And thats another reason why I do what I do. But don't be bitter. ;-)

Now back to our regularly sheduled programming. No pun intended.

 

I slept through algebra!!!

Can someone make a new ALDL definition Stream for TunerPro RT that will properly display the Vout from the LM1 WB and/or the Zeitronix and then email it to me at l98_gta@hotmail.com

I would really appreciate that...

Thks

 

Whoa hang on a minute guys. I use Marks TunerPro software to edit my bins and I absolutely love it. Thanks from the bottom of my heart! Keep up the good work!
I also run EASE to record the runs and for diagnostics. I am also quite fond of it as well.

Mark,
Any chance of putting a brief descriptor somewhere for the tables etc to help the less diverse (meaning myself) understand what it all does. I though I had it all pretty good until I realized that setting my closed loop to 128blm is actually 17.0 afr. EEK!
Do you know how to adjust / calibrate the O2 sensor to get it closer to the 14.7? Ive tried to manipulatethe 02 tables with no luck.

SCORP508,
Did you get the patch for EASE to look at TAV? They have it posted on their bulletin board on their site. Let me know if you still need it.

Thanks,
John